Topless sunbathing

As a parent of two children in the UK, the last thing I want is to dictate to other adults about how they should bring up their own kids but it fascinates me how someone can post an article in a Dominican Hotel Forum (not this one) which is listed below. Surely, during their upbringing, your own kids actually (shock-horror!!) see you without your clothes on. Maybe, by some innocent accident your own children come to realise that Mom has breasts. Why then should someone actually avoid going to a Resort where other women are seen to have breasts? What is the problem? Most people say that after a few days they don't even notice so why go through your life being shocked and horrified about those who find it convenient to go topless and, moreover, what damage does it do to the children's minds?

Extract of article in Forum:
"The only thing that people should realize is that there is topless sunbathing. We were not warned, (through AAA) and we have children of the age that could be really uncomfortable. (15,14 & 10) We did regroup after the initial shock and tried to ignore it. And, like I say we were almost glad that we weren't warned because we might have cancelled our trip."

REGROUP? Sounds like a battle situation! For the first time in their lives the kids must have discovered that whilst Mom wasn't prepared to walk around topless, many others wished to. What a culture shock! Never mind, one day they might travel beyond the bounds of their parents apparent disgust to discover that it is totally acceptable in most other countries outside the USA, and that their vacations should not have been decided upon whether women feel inclined to go topless or not.

For those who feel that it is objectionable, let me say this. I have known many women, all of whom are respectable ladies. Every one of them has preferred to go topless and never have I detected the slightest objection from others. In Europe it is the norm and yet those same kids who are held in that 'regroup' are brought up to accept guns which kill, but not topless women.
Where is the sense in this?

Bob...remember the old axiom "when in Rome," etc??
Respectable (and less-than respectable) Dominican females do not go topless; in fact, young girls there frequently wear a t-shirt OVER a swimsuit when on the beach. Cannot we, as thoughtful and respectful visitors, honor this tradition? There are ample opportunities when on private vessels, deserted beaches, or ones own sundeck to shed the shirt if that is a woman's wish. Let's not even GO near the fact that nearly all topless sunbathing is done for the express purpose of garnering the male reaction, and not for a woman's own gratification.(Read: sunburned nipples...ouch!)
So, if you and yours (or me and mine) are comfortable with upper-body nudity, go for it! But please don't try to change an old, established custom for the week or two that you visit.
IMHO
Regards,
WBD

I generally wear shorts over a one piece when I'm at the beaches in the DR, as that's the end that seems to be objectionable. But yes, I've noticed t-shirts too. I think it depends on the beach you're at and who you're with as to what you wear or don't wear.

WBD

Thank you for your response. I fully accept what you say and would not wish to offend local tradition.
If I was a woman, I would check the local acceptable conditions before I visited the DR to ensure that my 'dress' was acceptable.
My dispute was not so much about local acceptance, more about general acceptance, and to that end I still maintain that in many areas of the civilized World we should 'live and let live'.
In other words, if a country has tourists which go topless (and it is very common in the West) we should accept it without resorting to utter shock and horror, as if it might corrupt our children. Maybe American people adopt the same principles as the folks in the DR. So be it, but what I have difficulty getting my head around is the fact that there are far more life-threatening habits which Americans indulge in and accept as 'normal' and yet they feel they have to 'regroup' to accept topless women.
My children have never seen a gun in their lives. I hope and pray that they never do but, please, if a country can accept that every citizen can walk around with an instrument which can kill, and feel comfortable about that fact, how in God's name can they go on vacation and have to 'regroup' to discuss the 'shock and horror' of seeing a woman topless?
Maybe, in retrospect, this Forum is the wrong place to discuss such matters.

Bob,
what does being american have to do with seeing guns? Guns are not bare titties. you can't compare apples to oranges. It is a matter of children seeing things they shouldn't see until they have grown up. Guns have nothing to do with this situation. All of us "yanks" don't carry guns Bob. But if we choose to it is no concern of you brits. Since we beat you brits 220 years ago and bailed you out of 2 world wars, you should be more thankful to us and a little less critical of us. Remember, without us you would be speaking german right now.

sincerly yours,

EL RUBIO

EL RUBIO

Oh, thank you for your kind and considerate remarks! I will not stoop so low as to respond to your inaccurate facts about 'bailing out'. In the UK we always maintained that we fought together but, if it makes you happy, you saved the World. Yes, the USA is a saviour of all. It has the finest army, navy and airforce and can move in to resolve any issue, anywhere.
Pity you don't make movies which tell the truth! Even our own history has been distorted from the truth by producers who choose to favour fiction from fact. My God, our History goes back far beyond your 200 years of minimal existence and at least we know how to elect a leader!

QUOTE " It is a matter of children seeing things they shouldn't see until they are grown up" END QUOTE..

So your philosophy is that children should be denied of the fact that all female species have breasts and in this 'pretend world' both male and female are equal? A bit like Santa Claus hey? Wonderful! And in doing this they realise over time that this is a fantasy? Wonderful! So, deny a child the fact that it's Mother doesn't have breasts and, somehow, by hiding away basic human facts of life, you bring up children to believe that bare 'titties' as you describe them are 'things they shouldn't see'? No wonder they need 'regrouping'! It defies all that you have taught them!
If you could only accept that 'titties' are parts of human anatomy which both male and female are born with, perhaps you could overcome this inhibition. Never mind, if you have such distorted views about History, what chance have you got to even begin to accept natural physiology?

If one is so concered about nudity,go to disneyland with your kids!

UK=US

One would be hard pressed to find two countries that shared a mutual appreciation than that of the US and UK 9With the exception of that little misunderstanding back in 1776), but to deny the US it's true place in deciding World affairs (be they right or wrong) is completey blind.

If it were not for those "4 stackers" and P-40's in WW II, I fear it would have been too late to save England from Hitler.

I would never denounce some of the finest fighting men in the World (Brit Royal Marines, SBS, SAS) but the unfortunate inability to sustain anything short of a quick strike (Falklands, which IMHO the Argentinians would have won had they not hauled their Mirages and Super Entendardes back to Port Stanley)places England in a quandry when facing a large nation with much greater rresources such as Germany and Italy.

All in all, there are no two nations more allied than the States and Isles

Tom

Bob...I agree that shock and horror and regrouping were very poor choices of verbage. As far as live and let live; as a child of the 60's, I say Right ON! But I think you'll agree that a child's acceptance of and comfort with nudity are best taught at home, at least to start. A sun/sand resort where alcohol and merengue are such a big part of the day is probably not the best place for their education to proceed, IMO. Instead, take your kids out of the resort and visit the batey; let them interact with local kids and maybe spark some lifelong interests and humanitarian concerns! (You might see nudity there, too; the little ones run naked if there isn't enough $ to clothe them.)
Re: the gun issue...you won't find any Charlton Heston sticker on my car!! But if the thought of firearms bothers you, the RD may not be your oyster in all seriousness. The military and local police all sport large weapons from huge shotguns to automatic rifles and handguns, and many are not old enough to have facial hair. Also, in Santo Domingo and other towns of any size you will see a large number of men carrying poorly-concealed handguns. Whether they carry for a reason or simply for machismo, I don't know, but there you are.
And this board is a GREAT place for these dialogues; read the archives and you'll get quite an education on the RD as well as more than a few laughs.
Regards, WBD

Did you know that the USA has the highest percentage rape in the world? That's because children are not exposed to the natural
look of the human body, and when grown up, they need to see,
feel, touch etc. And because sex/magazines and flesh exposure
in the USA is a sin, rape is the only alternative. There is
NOTHING more natural than our naked body and our feel for sex.
And if you are from the USA, GOD gave it to us all to use, not
to hide. You just can't stop this natural feeling! what's wrong with you??

How on earth did topless sunbathing lead to the issue's of gun control and rape ? The choice to bare your chest is a personal one. A decision is also made when one chooses to either gaze at or avert their eye's. I have two teenagers. They go to movie's, watch TV, and frequent museum's & art galleries.....they have seen boobs ! As for the USA, sex is most definitely NOT a sin....but you can bet that rape is !

7 December 1941

And a hell of day to be remarking on the US Military , just 59 years ago today, the greatest tragedy to ever befall the men and women of the United States Armed Services

Rape To Diane

"Did you know that the USA has the highest percentage rape in the world? That's because children are not exposed to the natural
look of the human body, and when grown up, they need to see,
feel, touch etc" POsted by Diane

Diane;

If you believe Rape has anything to do with "looking," "seeing,", "touching" or "feeling," I seriously suggest you quickly educate yourself to the faqct that rape is a crime of control and violence, NOT SEX

Tom

Dear Boob from the USA,

Rape has everything to do with it, look at my other post.
I use to live if Florida, USA, and believe me, oral sex is illegal, you get arrested for it. The USA is trying to close down ALL go-go bars and sex shops. Sex IS a sin in the USA. That's why I'm out of there.

Re: Rape To Diane

Dear Tom,

It has everything to do with it. Early exposure to sex and flesh makes our children NOT to starve for sex and flesh. Rape comes from the lack of this exposure, and when exposed in maturity, it unlocks your criminal mind. You first try magazines, then movies, then go-go bars, then rape. Look at ALL children nudist around the world that have now grown up. They don't care much for sex. They seek the personality of individuals. They have no desire for rapes, go-go bars and the like. The USA try to prevent all of this criminal sex act by blocking and hiding, thinking it'll fix it. It don't work that way, that's why the USA is going down years after year. Another example, the children of the USA are less educated now then they ever were. You know why? It's because of prevention, safety etc. Child proof lighters, safety helmet, safety this, safety that, child proof this, child proof that. How are they ever going to learn anything! They need to do stupid things to learn. We all did and now we have the knowledge and experience, but not our children. Let them learn like we did, let them make mistakes like we did, let them make the choice like we did, and that's for everything, sex and all.

Rape is not sex

Diane

You just don't comprehend: Rape is a crime of violence and control, not sex. Do you really think teenagers rape 80 year old women for the sexual pleasure?

It has been postulated, studied and PROVEN that rape is a crime of violence, take it from someone who investigated a few as a Police Officer, both by unknown persons and family members, sex has nothing to do with it.

You say "Sex is a sin, thats why I'm out there," it's people with your ideas that confuse children into "experimental sex, not rape. You seriously need to learn the difference in the violent crime of rape and the act of sex. Where in God's name did you grow up, Saudi Arabia?

Tom

Diane,

I have lived in the USA for the whole of my life. People here are not as puritanical towards sex as you think. Sex, in every component, is a beautiful experience. The human body is a unique object that should be cherished. Rape is most definitely a crime resulting from the bent mind of a violent control freak that has been denied EMOTIONAL love/support/guidance.

I am not even going to address your comments on arrest for oral sex and porn. Good luck to you Diane !

Re: Rape To Diane

As the father of three boys age 16. 13 and 11, I think that your totally out to lunch. While I agree that if children are exposed to nudity at a young age and see it as natural, they will develop a healthy attitude about it( nudity) and the human body.Tomas is entirely correct about rape, it is about violence and control.
The Dominican Republic has huge numbers of rapes and so do many other countries with cultures that don't approve of public nudity or strip bars.

If you get rid of porno I think that many of these sicko's that live out their fantasies by watching and looking will do it for real. There are all sorts of experts on both sides of the question and who's to say what right.
I have stayed in a number of resorts in the DR and seen a number of topless women and the only comment from my boys was one from the oldest that they all seemed to be germans and he wish the two young british girls he had met were as casual.

Bob,

You seem to have alot of resentment for the U.S.A. That is most unfortunate. I did not mean to imply that the British did not fight as hard as the American forces, but do you really think you could have won both world wars without the help of the U.S.A.? Churchill himself has been quoted as being very relieved that the Americans entered the war. He was not very sure that the Brits would have been victorious without American aid. So, my apologies for insulting you. Your remarks regarding the U.S. were very insulting as well though. All of us Americans do not carry firearms. The vast majority do not. Our government does make choices to become involved in matters they should not be involved in, but it does not mean that all Americans are agree with those choices. Also, i did not learn my history from movies. Great Britian was the international powerhouse at the time the colonies showed them who was boss. Then again in 1812, we showed you again. Relax Bob, i have the utmost respect for the English and their history. I have no respect for anyone who degrades all Americans due to the behavior of some Americans. And most Americans find this election as rediculous as the rest of the world does.
Also, any child who doesn't know what breasts are is raised my idiots. Everyone at any age knows what breasts are, it doesn't mean they should be seeing every breast that passes by. If they did , they may not care about tits at all then half the fun in sex will be lost. I myself love womens breasts, and am very happy to be interested in them. That , in my opinion, is why they should remain covered around children. I will agree though that that woman's remarks about "regrouping" was an overreaction.

sincerly,

EL RUBIO

EL RUBIO

Fair comments my friend. Despite your opinion, I do not have a lot of resentment for the U.S.A. I know for a fact that most Brits were, and still are, very thankful for the efforts and sacrifices made by U.S Forces during both World Wars and yes, it is obvious that without your assistance the World would now be a totally different place. What I do resent, however, is having the fact shoved down my throat as if the US won the War on their own without any consideration of the combined efforts of many other countries whose 'joint' effort with the US made it all possible. I still wish that film producers would depict this fact. Did you see a single British soldier, or British aircraft in 'Saving Private Ryan'? Brilliant film but, come on, Normandy at that time was heaving with Brits and I don't mean on the US landing beaches, more inland. Again, is it unpatriotic to recognise that the US were not the only fighting men in France at this time? I won't mention Braveheart. Being a Scot, I would rather trust my own knowledge of true history.
Regarding the breasts, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I respect yours. My original post was instigated out of sheer amazement that, in this day and age, some (and I repeat 'some') parents find exposure too much to cope with. Please bear in mind that I was born in 1942, and during my lifetime I have witnessed a sea-change in acceptance of topless bathing throughout Europe. Nobody turns an eye, nobody views it as lewd and when you say " If they did , they may not care about tits at all then half the fun in sex will be lost " I note that you say 'MAY'. The fact is that my children, and most others I know, have grown up with all their natural instincts intact and my son has certainly not lost his interest in sex despite witnessing a plethora (x2) of titties in his life so far!
If a woman feels comfortable walking down a beach topless that is her prerogative. To suggest that young children should be blinkered is enforcing conditions upon them which are completely unnecessary. OK, it doesn't do them any harm, but I respectfully submit that no evidence exists which proves to the contrary.
It's all down to acceptance and nobody is suggesting that women should parade around a city topless, merely grant them the freedom to feel free to do so on a beach in the sun where it is permitted. Since posting I have been informed that in the DR it is not acceptable and whilst I have seen many topless women on my past visits, I have no hesitation in condemning them for this insult.

Have a nice Christmas.

Regards

Bob