Education system

MBTS

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i read recently the average time spent in school is up to age 12. Just enough to learn basic reading and math skills. This doesn't sound too good for a country that continues to grow and want to be out of poverty. Comments:
 
Mar 2, 2008
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I think most people who are at all familiar with the DR would agree that education is one of the most pressing issues facing this country.

Those who do stay in school until 12 do not necessarily know how to read fluently, nor do they truly understand mathematics. In general, the public schools in the Dominican Republic provide only a very superficial level of education.

While some schools in the DR might be better than others in this regard, no child here is getting a comparable education with children in any first world country. If a student in the DR attends school until the age of 12, they are probably getting only the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th grader would get in North America.
 

Chirimoya

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I think most people who are at all familiar with the DR would agree that education is one of the most pressing issues facing this country.

Those who do stay in school until 12 do not necessarily know how to read fluently, nor do they truly understand mathematics. In general, the public schools in the Dominican Republic provide only a very superficial level of education.

While some schools in the DR might be better than others in this regard, no child here is getting a comparable education with children in any first world country. If a student in the DR attends school until the age of 12, they are probably getting only the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th grader would get in North America.

Bolding mine: the exception would be many - but not all - children in the private education sector.
 

pedrochemical

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True story -
I bought Chicklets for a day's meetings.
I counted out 20 with the girl at the till.
They were 1 peso each.
She then took the calculator and multiplied 20 by 1, stared at the calculator for a while and then declared (with a straight face) 20 pesos.

I went back 2 days later and the same thing happened.
 

bob saunders

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I think most people who are at all familiar with the DR would agree that education is one of the most pressing issues facing this country.

Those who do stay in school until 12 do not necessarily know how to read fluently, nor do they truly understand mathematics. In general, the public schools in the Dominican Republic provide only a very superficial level of education.

While some schools in the DR might be better than others in this regard, no child here is getting a comparable education with children in any first world country. If a student in the DR attends school until the age of 12, they are probably getting only the equivalent of a 3rd or 4th grader would get in North America.

Education is certainly one of the most pressing issues facing all countries. You as a teacher for many years are also aware of how many children fall through the cracks in American schools, Canadian also. My wife as approx 300 children from Grade 1 - 7 in her school. From what I've observed most children by the time they are in Grade 4 are capable readers. As always there are exceptions to the rules. It is uncommon, at least in Jarabacoa, for children to be finished school at age 12. The high schools are filled, both public and private. As far as the quality of education, yes on average it is inferior to North American or European, but not in all cases and not in all subjects. I've found that the mathematics taught in grade school are equivalent to those taught in N A schools. Although not a teacher, I've numerous relatives in Canada and the States that are. I also have raised 3 Children that have been exposed to different standards of schools within one country. It is a shame that the education system isn't more heavily invested in, as many Dominican children are very intelligent and hungry 10 years old and started Grade 5 with the same knowledge level as his peers. He is off to Business school in Toronto in September.
 
Mar 2, 2008
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Chiri and Bob,
I agree with both of you that private schools in the DR are different, and in many instances much better. And Bob, I agree that there are kids who fall through the cracks in NA schools, but they are truly the exceptions, and not the rule.

I'm afraid that in the DR the kids who fall through the cracks are the rule, and the exceptions are those who receive a good education in either a private school, or in an exceptional public school.

As you both know, there have been many discussions around this issue, and little has been resolved, and certainly no answer is in sight. The reasons given for the poor quality of education in public DR schools run the gamut from 'cultural' to 'political will' to expediency (restricting the access to political and financial power). More than likely it is a combination of all those reasons and more.

How to fix it? Who knows. But most agree it certainly needs fixing.
 

ybonabeach

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Jan 16, 2008
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fix it??

Maybe the government should take lessons from India. They invested time and money into the educational system and are a growing power in the world. Also look at Cuba. GREAT education and health care. Too bad that doesn't seem to be a great concern here in the RD.
 

MBTS

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Maybe the government should take lessons from India. They invested time and money into the educational system and are a growing power in the world. Also look at Cuba. GREAT education and health care. Too bad that doesn't seem to be a great concern here in the RD.
AND from Catheineintherye " The reasons given for the poor quality of education in public DR schools run the gamut from 'cultural' to 'political will' to expediency (restricting the access to political and financial power). More than likely it is a combination of all those reasons and more."

I recall taking an undergraduate poli-geography class. They way to contol people is to keep them ignoant. Yes, people can be provided an " academic" educated such as in Cuba, China. but look at the political restraints imposed on the educated. Having read several posts on DR!, there is a caste system n the DR that has value. To provide opportunities for financial and thus social mobility would impose a threat to the small, yet powerful upper class. Can you imagine; " My parents were poor Hatians who worked in the sugar fields and my mama was a puta and now I am President of Republica Dominica. " Perhaps not so dramatic, but it's the flavour of the story that's the example.
 

anng3

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A start might be making school free, paying teachers a living wage and if uniforms are required have the government pay for them.
 

bob saunders

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AND from Catheineintherye " The reasons given for the poor quality of education in public DR schools run the gamut from 'cultural' to 'political will' to expediency (restricting the access to political and financial power). More than likely it is a combination of all those reasons and more."

Having read several posts on DR!, there is a caste system n the DR that has value. To provide opportunities for financial and thus social mobility would impose a threat to the small, yet powerful upper class. Can you imagine; " My parents were poor Hatians who worked in the sugar fields and my mama was a puta and now I am President of Republica Dominica. " Perhaps not so dramatic, but it's the flavour of the story that's the example.

I respectfully disagree with both of you. Presidente Fernandez doesn't come from the moneyed class, and either do many other sucessful Dominicans. Not to say that there isn't an old boys club(blue-bloods), but certainly there are opportunities to become financially and socially successful for the traditionally poorer and less educated people. I don't believe there is a conspiracy to keep people poor and uneducated. I believe there is lack of political will to improve the education system because the government of the day( matters not which political party) finds it easier to skim money from other government departments, therefore they put more in to those ministries. The majoriy of politicians are too busy lining their own pockets to get too concerned about the state of education in the country. Leonel wants to move the country to 4th world status without going through the developmental stages of 2nd and 3rd world development. There have been some positive signs like the agreement with Cuba to train teachers to be able to reach literacy goals,...etc.
 

Chirimoya

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A start might be making school free, paying teachers a living wage and if uniforms are required have the government pay for them.
State schools are free, but it's true that teachers don't get a living wage and are very poorly trained.

This government has introduced a new 'double salary' for public sector employees to buy their kids school supplies. Uniforms and especially school textbooks and all the other school materials are a major expense for a low-income family.
 

bob saunders

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State schools are free, but it's true that teachers don't get a living wage and are very poorly trained.

This government has introduced a new 'double salary' for public sector employees to buy their kids school supplies. Uniforms and especially school textbooks and all the other school materials are a major expense for a low-income family.

Teachers in the public system if they are working the full day make 18,000 to 20,000 pesos a month, hardly a great wage but considerably more than a great deal of the population. The 2 year teachers diploma is indeed not a very good program. As far a textbooks in the public system they are free. Uniforms cost the equivalent of several trips to the hairdressers or one night at the disco or car-wash. While it is true many poor people can't afford uniforms when they have 3-4 kids It is also true that they seem to come up with the money for the beauty salon, and beer. The government can take some of the blame, but the people themselves should be shouldering the majority of it.
 

Chirimoya

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Teachers in the public system if they are working the full day make 18,000 to 20,000 pesos a month, hardly a great wage but considerably more than a great deal of the population. The 2 year teachers diploma is indeed not a very good program. As far a textbooks in the public system they are free. Uniforms cost the equivalent of several trips to the hairdressers or one night at the disco or car-wash. While it is true many poor people can't afford uniforms when they have 3-4 kids It is also true that they seem to come up with the money for the beauty salon, and beer. The government can take some of the blame, but the people themselves should be shouldering the majority of it.
I tend to agree about parental priorities, Bob. I would also ask why have 3-4 or more kids if you can't afford to educate them, but at the same time I know it is not quite as simple as that. One thing though, is it really true about textbooks being free for state school students? I'd never heard that was the case.
 

La Mariposa

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I tend to agree about parental priorities, Bob. I would also ask why have 3-4 or more kids if you can't afford to educate them, but at the same time I know it is not quite as simple as that. One thing though, is it really true about textbooks being free for state school students? I'd never heard that was the case.

It is quite simple in other countries, why not the D.R.?? It looks like trying to find excuses for the D.R.
 

Chirimoya

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I meant that it's very easy to say "why have so many children" when the reasons why people have more children than they can afford are complex: some cultural and religious elements, combined with poverty and lack of education make for a vicious circle. The moment a society is more educated and/or more affluent, birth rates go down. This is already happening in the DR - the overall birth rate, while still high especially among the poorest and least educated, has declined dramatically in the last couple of generations.
 
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bob saunders

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I tend to agree about parental priorities, Bob. I would also ask why have 3-4 or more kids if you can't afford to educate them, but at the same time I know it is not quite as simple as that. One thing though, is it really true about textbooks being free for state school students? I'd never heard that was the case.

I can only speak for Jarabacoa as I've never been in any of the other public schools. In Jarabacoa all the public school's I went to ( most of them because Yris is writing a book on education in Jarabacoa) they had plenty of testbooks and I was told that they didn't charge the students for them. Is that proof positive; I can only go with what I was told. There certainly didn't seem to be a shortage of Textbooks. Shortage of Libraries, yes. I think Jarabacoa is somewhat luckier than many other areas. A lot of government money because Leonel's first family are from there, and as is his personal assistant. Donations from the Japanese government to redo two schools, large Saliciano presense(Catholic schools) and US Army engineers and Rotary International have also carried lots of projects. Still lots to do though.
 

anng3

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I too think it's more complicated than money being spent on beauty salons etc. I don't think it is up to the poor to fix the system or does any good to blame them. The government should take the lead and make education a priority.
 

bob saunders

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I too think it's more complicated than money being spent on beauty salons etc. I don't think it is up to the poor to fix the system or does any good to blame them. The government should take the lead and make education a priority.

Of course it more complicated than money being spent a beauty salons, but the attitude that beauty salons and beer are more important than your childs education are a big part of the problem. The majority of the people( who are poor) do not force or pressure the government to make the education system a priority. A couple of years ago people complained that the teachers were under qualified and needed to have degrees so the government did something about it. Upgrading to get BA and Masters for public school teachers is paid for by the government. Now whether these degrees are worth the papr they are printed on is another issue. I've seen great improvements in the education system in the past 10 years. I'm well aware that it has a long ways to go. Anng3, parents have to take the responsibility to make sure their children are receiving the best education possible. It is not the government's responsibility to feed your children, dress them, and get them up in the morning, send them to school, and make sacrifices( like a little less beer and doing their own hair).
 

anng3

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I totally agree it has to start with parents, that's universal 1st world or 3rd world. I guess I just don't like generalizations that beauty salons and beer are more important. That seems like a Western view. Poor people here have a hard life. If they don't have any good models than the government should show them options, emphasize education etc.

I'm glad to hear people complained and the government did something. It just seems such a shame to read stories about kids who can't go to school because they can't afford uniforms.
 

bob saunders

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I totally agree it has to start with parents, that's universal 1st world or 3rd world. I guess I just don't like generalizations that beauty salons and beer are more important. That seems like a Western view. Poor people here have a hard life. If they don't have any good models than the government should show them options, emphasize education etc.

I'm glad to hear people complained and the government did something. It just seems such a shame to read stories about kids who can't go to school because they can't afford uniforms.

I can only tell you what I see and observe. My wife owns a private school but has worked in both public and Catholic private schools and universities and knows a great number of public school teacher with several generations of school teachers in her family. Most of Leonel's cabinet are former professors from UASD.