education standards

Cheryl**

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Jul 17, 2009
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hello everyone,

(I'm a brand new "newbie" so please go gentle on any obvious naivity! this is also the first time I've posted to ANY forum, so glad to now be part of the electronic world!)

I'm afraid I came to the Dominican and got 'sankied'... But rather than purely slag-off these people, I became interested in the motivation?

During this one trip, I fell in love with the Dominican Republic and began my research, both positive and negative to try to start to understand the culture, etc that is hidden as a tourist.

Whilst I wholeheartedly understand that one cannot apply the cultures in a developed world to the DR, or assume any similarities between your home country and the DR, I wonder what steps are being taken towards creating equality and development?

There is a distinct lack of education in terms of numeracy and literacy, but also correct use of contraception, support and identification of tallents. This, combined with great importance placed upon class, skin colou, a "them and us" approach, which creates further division... Coupled with 40% of the population beneath the minimum food basket line- severe poverty levels- leaves me wondering how these people can improve their quality of life??

Maybe I'm making excuses for my sankies' behaviour, but I think it is easy to judge, when you are shunned from society before becoming a 'sankie', and are faced with very little opportunity to utilise your intellectual (or other strenghts) that would not only enhance the individual's financial and self-worth- but also benefit the country by using individual's strenghts for the ecconomic stability/wealth for the country as a whole??

Think about a developed country- education, equal opp's, apprenticeships, scholarships, student loans, etc. Arent we better for these things? They must have started somewhere..? Are there any programs to educate adults, and help people of limited means, use their strengths to gain a better career? For example, the sankie in question speaks 4 languages which would normally, in a developed country, open a lot of doors...
Instead, is sleeping with tourists, bringing sexual diseases home to his girlfriend that he doesnt understand and possibly cant afford to treat?? This is clearly a monetary motivation, (plus additional sex?) but are there other viable options for someone of this class/ social standing/ poverty??...........

If you havent fallen asleep with my first post, any comments, positive or negative, would be appreciated.
Many thanks,
Cheryl
 

Thandie

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Nov 27, 2007
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Lack of quality education is the root of all evils in the DR...
Class issues is the cousin.

I know a young, HIGHLY intelligent Dominican guy who is in law school in POP.
He speaks many languages. His English is perfect!

He told me he is very worried about his future employment opportunities not based on his skill, grades and intelligence but because of his 'class' (he grew up in one of the poorest communities in POP) He knows he does not have the necessary 'connections' compared to some of his other class mates who are from a higher class to secure certain jobs.

He told me he applied for a job and the person who was given the position was obviously less qualified than he was but his class and therefore connections secured his position.

I engouraged him to push ahead and to never give up, but I understood the sense of hopelessness and fear he felt.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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True enough,
you do not see many Dominicans clogging the beach up reading books.
But they do have their moments.


However, as with quantum particles, the act of observing tends to affect the observed.
Most Dominicans would never have cause to interact with a tourist, so the ones that do regularly might not be your "average Dominican".

Most people I know seem normal. The closer you get to the tourist parts, the more stereotypically "Dominican" they become.

I think it would be nice to have an improved, free education system. It would be great if the infant mortality rate went down, the GDP went up, unemployment fell and infrastructures, political and civil, were updated.

But it ain't that bad, really.
There are much, much worse places.
In fact, the more I discover about the subject, the more it seems like one of the nicest places to live in the Caribbean.
 

bob saunders

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Jan 1, 2002
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Lack of quality education is the root of all evils in the DR...
Class issues is the cousin.

I know a young, HIGHLY intelligent Dominican guy who is in law school in POP.
He speaks many languages. His English is perfect!

He told me he is very worried about his future employment opportunities not based on his skill, grades and intelligence but because of his 'class' (he grew up in one of the poorest communities in POP) He knows he does not have the necessary 'connections' compared to some of his other class mates who are from a higher class to secure certain jobs.

He told me he applied for a job and the person who was given the position was obviously less qualified than he was but his class and therefore connections secured his position.

I engouraged him to push ahead and to never give up, but I understood the sense of hopelessness and fear he felt.

It works this way in the first world also. Unless you are in a big city or high demand market forget about it if you don't have conections.
 

Thandie

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Nov 27, 2007
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It works this way in the first world also. Unless you are in a big city or high demand market forget about it if you don't have conections.

True... but to a different degree IMO.

There is nothing worse then when people, especially youth, feel so hopeless.

President Obama was not from a connected, rich upper class family but because of his high intelligence, people skills, drive and hard work he was able to move to a higher class and establish more connections.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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Is Leonel from a privileged background?
He does not come across that way on T.V.

Either way, I often wonder at the talent that is wasted here due to lack of opportunity.
 
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Trig

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Aug 20, 2006
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True... but to a different degree IMO.

There is nothing worse then when people, especially youth, feel so hopeless.

President Obama was not from a connected, rich upper class family but because of his high intelligence, people skills, drive and hard work he was able to move to a higher class and establish more connections.


Well, we wouldn't want the "youth" to feel hopeless.

If you are able to align all the grants and student loans (or for the middle class kids, if your family is one of the few that have equity in the home to take the second mortgage to pay for college),

if you are able to get your law degree and land a job with a minority lending institution, and soon run that lending institution....that leads to forcing the entire mortgage lending institution to giving loans that normally they wouldn't qualify for....that leads to the future downfall of the entire fannie mae, and or freddie mac lending machine.....

Don't feel hopeless...you could be elected president of the United States of America!!!!!

Just believe
 

Thandie

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Nov 27, 2007
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Don't feel hopeless...you could be elected president of the United States of America!!!!!

Just believe

Well since I am not American the possibilty of me being elected the president of the USA is beyond hope. lol
So if you want to turn this into a bash Obama thread, start another thread. That is not the topic we are discussing!
 

Cheryl**

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Jul 17, 2009
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thanks for your comments everyone!

My question remains, though-

Are there any options/ alternative, viable options for a Dominican of low-class, very little money, neverthe less intelligent, to gain some sort of training to achieve a better career??

This is a matter that is close to my heart owing to the probable motivation as to why these sankies steal from foreigners...

If 40% of the population cannot earn enough to consume the mininum calorific intake of food needed to survive, they are on a par with the starving in Africa, to whome we donate money in millions every year.

The DR has had an unprecedented economic rise with the tourist boom, so can you blame the ill-educated, poverty-stricken young men and women, for thinking we foreigners can spare some cash??

Before you all rush, to slag off this statement, if you were starving, would you decieve to feed your newborn baby, etc???

Then again, am I over-romanticising their situation? Its not about pity and ,aking excuses, but recognising the need for change and those couragous few, that dont say "I'm all right, Jack; you, beneath me, arent my problem??"

what do you think??
 
B

BettyDiamond

Guest
people here could earn much more money if they marketed themselves better, I mean some shops dont even have signs to tell you what they sell, people make furniture but dont advertise it...its all about telling people what you do
 

Thandie

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Nov 27, 2007
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Fuku, that is the sense of 'hopelessness' I was referring to.
At least in North America for those who grow up poor, the possibilties, support and the hope is greater.
Also there are more role models of those who have 'made it out'. That alone gives a sense of hope that it is possible.
 

Cheryl**

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Jul 17, 2009
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I agree.... But is anything being done? Its a real feat to encourage someone, e.g. A sankie to work harder-ie work, not phonecalls, sex amd dancing, for less money- than a tourist could pay- I've heard stories where sankies have collated an income from various sources that have totalled an income of $4,000 per month, plus cars, etc. Even if they are only getting an extra 2-3-4 hundred poundd extra, its an easy way to make ends meet... Plus society expects it of them, and like FUKU said:

Always going to be poor whether intelligent, etc or not... So why strive for the commendable career??

My question is, is anybody doing anything to begin to combat this?

Volunteer groups for adult education? ... Dare I say it- student funding? Etc... I just think that its the parents who may have told that young girl that she wouldnt make any money any other way?? They accept that they will always be poor- in all senses of the word- in the eyes of others and that the only way to gain a better standard of living, is to take advantage of all these foreigners, with deep pockets, that arrive every two weeks with, to them, large pockets of cash??

What organiseations are there to aid the lower classes even just in terms of sex education, preparation of food and hygeine? Also, are there any incentives, (government or otherwise) whereby people can develop skills. What about foreign employers? Will they employ an unqualified, but skilled person...?

Or am I dreaming???

Once upon a time, we didnt have equal opporrunities in the UK... And that must have changed, somehow??

Any help greatly appreciated... I'd like to teach in a private school in the DR, but donate some time to projects to educate adults aswell, within the poorer sectors of the DR.... Its sad that so many people have said that if I mix with the lowerclasses, I would be viewed as being the same as them and therefore not prosper.... So we just look after ourselves? The rich get richer and the poor get poorer... And I'm worthless by association? Who's actually going to get off their bum and help?!!!!

This segregation falls into all areas of society- repression of women, domestic violence, etc??? I keep reminding myself that you cant bring your 'developed world's' social sstandards and expectations to any developing country.

Does anybody know any organiseations, that are setup to help Dominicans use their skills and aim for a better career???

Cheryl
 

Thandie

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Nov 27, 2007
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Plus society expects it of them,
Cheryl

Well this is the other problem.
I think when they make a movie about being a Sanky it is a common and somewhat acceptable thing for many.
Some Dominicans dont even like to associate with gringos because they dont want to be labelled a Sanky.

My friends teen brother, who speaks perfect English told me that some of his friends pressure him and ask him why he works, when he could sit on a beach a sanky tourists for a lot more money. He is a sweet respectable guy and told them no, that lifestyle is not for him. They think he is foolish. He wants to be an engineer.
 

La Profe_1

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Oct 15, 2003
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My question is, is anybody doing anything to begin to combat this?

Volunteer groups for adult education? ... Dare I say it- student funding? Etc... I just think that its the parents who may have told that young girl that she wouldnt make any money any other way?? They accept that they will always be poor- in all senses of the word- in the eyes of others and that the only way to gain a better standard of living, is to take advantage of all these foreigners, with deep pockets, that arrive every two weeks with, to them, large pockets of cash??

What organiseations are there to aid the lower classes even just in terms of sex education, preparation of food and hygeine?
Does anybody know any organiseations, that are setup to help Dominicans use their skills and aim for a better career???

Cheryl

I can tell you that there is a center for adult education in Cabarete. It is run by the Diocese of Puerto Plata and is geared to education for employability of adults. Courses such as computer accounting, hotel services, sewing of decorative items such as drapes and curtains and other skills are taught. We are in discussion with donors in other countries who are arranging the donation of equipment for other skilled trades such as woodworking, welding and restaurant services.

(As an aside, may I point out that I am LA Profe_1, not El Profe) and a poster who has been on DR1 for many years? I have been mistaken for the other Profe in chat, and would like to set the record straight.)
 

Cheryl**

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Jul 17, 2009
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that's great news! The first glipse on the horizon for me! Do the residents have to pay for these courses?

I am starting a degree in English, because, although I have done a CELTA course with Cambridge university, good, private schools will not pay a good salary without a degree. The plan, therefore, is to do some volunteer work in summer 2010, while I look for a suitable position teaching and see if I can 'take a year out' or longer, if I find anywhere suitable.

Also, once in the Dominican, I dont want to just 'look after myself' but donate time to teach as many people who want to learn. I want to help and give people some of the chances I've had.

My Sankie highlighted to me, his intelligence and positive capabilities, I guess...

Are there any volunteer groups in the North of the Island, e.g. The one you mentioned in Puerto Plata, that dont charge you a fortune to help them, as I will be a student in England until I secure a good teaching position in the Dominican??

Thankyou so much for your post- its great to hear I may be able to help...

I have quite a wide education base, and studied music, art, equine studues and english to a fairly high level? Also, I would be happy to help with social behaviour, contraceptive advice, and learning skills, such as putting together a C.V. Etc

Does this place in Cabarete have provision for foreigners to travel to the DR for the summer, tohelp with additional teaching, (feee of charge of course)?

I would expect to pay my own flights, accom., and food, etc, but a lot of institutions seem to be charging ?1000 per month to stay with them and help them??

Any thoughts??

Many thanks,
Cheryl
 

La Profe_1

Moderator: Daily Headline News, Travel & Tourism
Oct 15, 2003
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There are some opportunities available which do not charge. In the case of Cabarete, I would have to do some checking with the director. I know that they offer English courses - essential for hotel services courses.

The idea of help creating curriculum vitae is also interesting. I am not currently in the DR, but hope to return in early October so there would be sufficient time to organize something.

ETA: Before the grammar police swoop in, may I point out that the correct name of the country is the Dominican Republic, Dom Rep or the DR? "Dominican" in itself is an adjective.
 

minerva_feliz

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Imagine you are a young Dominican and you know that no matter how hard you work, legally, you will remain poor. No matter how well educated, you will remain poor. Whores and sankies make more money than teachers. So instead of dreaming to become a professor or doctor, you pick up a gun and go to work for your local equal opportunity employer--crime.

Well said! And sign me up, I'm tired of riding the guagua while politicos and narcos cruise their jipetas and mercedes! :cheeky: j/k, I'll always be en la lucha.

It's true that the educational system here is bad. There are lots of technical courses out there offered through the government, private institutions and non-profits, and many people have taken some kind of "curso", whether it be sewing, candle-making, tourism, basic English, whatever. The UASD has more students than ever. The government has programs in place and signed international agreements in the areas of health, youth, sustainable turism, etc. But it's all too little too late, looks great on paper but in reality doesn't even exist, or is of such low quality it is relatively worthless. Yes, at least it's something, but it's not enough to level the playing field.

The Horatio Alger myth that any poor individual can prosper if they just try is the mainstream ideology of developed countries like the U.S., supported even by the claims of some minority individuals that the 'isms' aren't a factor any more because, hey, look at Obama. Those people are unable to look beyond their personal experiences or perceptions to understand the larger, objective, documentable social reality that not everybody has the same chance to prosper.

Here there are so few opportunities to legally or "respecfully" make a living that no wonder most people want to leave. Ask a young person if they would rather have a full paid scholarship to a university here or a U.S. visa and see what they say.

I always try to understand rather than judge sankies, narcos, prostitutes, thieves, etc. because who am I to say that I wouldn't be doing the same if I were born in their same circumstances?

I have no sympathy, however, for all the corrupt and incompetent politicians who have no desire to improve anything here because it's in their best interest to keep people poor and uneducated so they can keep stealing.

A developing country and its problems is a hard thing to wrap your head around. :tired:
 

Cheryl**

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Jul 17, 2009
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Re: your note on dominican, thats just my laziness!! Although with the definitive preceeding 'the' isnt it a noun?? Just pondering out loud... Feel free to correct me! :-D

... At least I didnt use Dominicana, and name an entirely different island, ha, ha.
I'm typing on a mobile, so forgive me.

It would be great if you could speak to your director. I'd just like to help. I get a lot of satisfaction out of it.... Are there any real opportunities for them to gain positions with the qualifications offered? I am guessing, that with the politics of the country, it may be a higher possibility to gain employment with foreign organisations? I am VERY new to this, so not at all sure.

There were lots of aspects I was musing over, in terms of education...

1.) I used to work as a chef, so simple ways to make money go further with food, preserving food, health and hygeine, etc...

2.) Form filling; how, why, different reasons, etc

3.) The use of contraception. (It appears that Dominicans have some of the highest use of contraception, due to abortion laws, etc but do not have the education about using every ti,e/ effective use/ types of disease, etc. My sankie told me you could get Chlamydia from a warm seat)

4.) using English- speaking/ role playing, etc.

5.) social studies


These were just off the top of my head and probably fairly obvious, but I'll give it some more thought.

Do you work for the organisation in Cabarete? Do the Dominicans have to pay to learn?? If you dont mind me asking, what do you do for them?? Sorry- this is the first time I've used a forum and dont wish to be too intrusive.

Many thanks,
Cheryl.