Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List

toneloc24

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Mar 8, 2004
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?ref=sports

Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
Published: July 30, 2009

Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, the sluggers who propelled the Boston Red Sox to end an 86-year World Series championship drought and to capture another title three years later, were among the roughly 100 Major League Baseball players to test positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the results.

Some of baseball?s most cherished storylines of the past decade have been tainted by performance-enhancing drugs, including the accomplishments of record-setting home run hitters and dominating pitchers. Now, players with Boston?s championship teams of 2004 and 2007 have also been linked to doping.

Baseball first tested for steroids in 2003, and the results from that season were supposed to remain anonymous. But for reasons that have never been made clear, the results were never destroyed and the first batch of positives has come to be known among fans and people in baseball as ?the list.? The information was later seized by federal agents investigating the distribution of performance-enhancing drugs to professional athletes, and the test results remain the subject of litigation between the baseball players union and the government.

Five others have been tied to positive tests from that year: Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Jason Grimsley and David Segui. Bonds, baseball?s career home runs leader, was not on the original list, although federal agents seized his 2003 sample and had it retested. Those results showed the presence of steroids, according to court documents.

The information about Ramirez and Ortiz emerged through interviews with multiple lawyers and others connected to the pending litigation. The lawyers spoke anonymously because the testing information is under seal by a court order. The lawyers did not identify which drugs were detected.

Unlike Ramirez, who recently served a 50-game suspension for violating baseball?s drug policy, Ortiz had not previously been linked to performance-enhancing substances.

Scott Boras, the agent for Ramirez, would not comment Thursday.

Asked about the 2003 drug test on Thursday in Boston, Ortiz shrugged. ?I?m not talking about that anymore,? he said. ?I have no comment.?

The union has argued that the government illegally seized the 2003 test results, and judges at various levels of the federal court system have weighed whether the government can keep them. The government hopes to question every player on the list to determine where the drugs came from. An appeals court is deliberating the matter, and the losing side is likely to appeal to the United States Supreme Court.

A spokesman for the United States attorney?s office for the Northern District of California, which seized the tests, declined to comment on Thursday. Michael Weiner, the general counsel for the players union, also declined to comment.

One by one, the names of elite players tied to performance-enhancing drugs have surfaced this year. In February, it was Rodriguez and Bonds. In May, it was Ramirez ? for the first time. In June, it was Sosa.

Rodriguez had been viewed by some as a clean player who could eventually overtake the career home run record established by Bonds, who had been linked to possible drug use through the federal investigation. Rodriguez subsequently admitted that he used a performance-enhancing substance from 2001 to 2003.

The Times reported in June that Sosa was among those who tested positive in 2003, the first time he had been publicly tied to performance-enhancing drugs. Sosa became a national figure with the Chicago Cubs in 1998, when he and Mark McGwire of the St. Louis Cardinals engaged in a celebrated race to overtake Roger Maris?s single-season home run record of 61. McGwire?s image suffered tremendously when, at a Congressional hearing in 2005, he refused to answer questions about steroid use.

By 2003, Ramirez had long since established himself as one of baseball?s best hitters. Ortiz, however, was less known. In 2002, the Minnesota Twins effectively cut him after failing to trade him. He signed a bargain contract with the Red Sox and began the 2003 season as a backup.

Ortiz quickly blossomed, setting personal highs in home runs (31) and runs batted in (101). He surpassed those numbers in each of the next four seasons.

Ramirez, with his dreadlocks and quirky behavior, and Ortiz, with his gregarious personality and portly build, formed a dynamic tandem on and off the field. They seemed to feed off each other ? not to mention demoralize opponents ? by hitting back-to-back in the heart of the lineup.

In 2004, they helped the Red Sox overcome a 3-0 series deficit against the Yankees in the American League Championship Series. The Red Sox then swept the St. Louis Cardinals in the World Series to end decades of heartbreak in Boston. Ortiz had a game-winning home run and a game-winning hit against the Yankees and was named the most valuable player of that series. Ramirez was named the World Series M.V.P. after going 7 for 17 at the plate with a home run.

Three years after winning that first title, Ramirez and Ortiz returned Boston to another World Series, where they defeated the Colorado Rockies.

The pairing was split last season when the Red Sox traded Ramirez to the Los Angeles Dodgers after team officials grew concerned that he was not playing hard in response to a contract dispute. In Los Angeles, Ramirez took off again, becoming popular among the fans and leading the Dodgers to the playoffs.

But Ramirez?s hero status in Los Angeles took a hit in May when he was suspended after baseball officials learned that he had been prescribed a fertility drug often used by bodybuilders after they stopped using steroids. When Ramirez was suspended, he issued a statement that appeared to maneuver around his 2003 test results.

?I do want to say one other thing,? Ramirez said. ?I?ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.?

That five-year period extended back to 2004, which excludes the 2003 test.

Since returning from his suspension, Ramirez has been widely accepted by the home fans. In 48 games this season, he has compiled a .327 average and has hit 11 home runs.

Ortiz, meanwhile, has been in a sharp decline. He had an operation on his wrist last year and missed nearly a third of the season. He started this year in a slump and did not hit his first home run until a month and a half into the season. Since June 1, however, he has hit 12 more home runs.

In 2007, Ortiz said that he used to buy a protein shake in the Dominican Republic when he was younger and did not know if it contained a performance-enhancing drug.

?I don?t do that anymore because they don?t have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I?m off buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican Republic,? Ortiz told The Boston Herald. He added: ?I don?t know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it.?

In February, he said that players who tested positive for steroids should be suspended for an entire season ? about 100 games more than the current policy requires for a first offense.

David Waldstein contributing reporting from Boston.
 

toneloc24

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Mar 8, 2004
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Report: Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003 - ESPN

"Los Angeles Angels center fielder Torii Hunter, a longtime friend of Ortiz's, said he was shocked by the report.

"This hurts, this really hurts," Hunter told ESPN.com. "I don't know what to think about this. I guess you just never know what people do in the dark.

"I still love him but at the same time it's tough to hear that. I know it's going to be tough on him and tough on his family once this gets out. It's Big Papi, man, it's the Big Dog of Boston and he helped win two World Series with those guys, with the clutch hits. And now all those things are going to be tainted."

"The Times reported that the revelations about Ramirez and Ortiz came from multiple lawyers and other sources associated with the case pending.

"Whoever got that list is just playing with Major League Baseball right now," Hunter told ESPN.com. "Either put [the list] away, or just put it out. It was anonymous and now the names are leaking and it's a joke."

In February, shortly after Rodriguez confessed to using banned substances, Ortiz said publicly that players who tested positive for a substance that was banned at the time should be suspended for an entire year."
 

ExtremeR

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Mar 22, 2006
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Another Dominican to be hand-picked for the infamous 2003 list, one at a time so each one has his own "stellar" time with the media. A-rod, Sammy, Manny and Papi.

We will suppose that of that list every player was Dominican....those lawyers clearly has an agenda and is starting to grow thin...

But of course everybody will disagree with me...
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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I am not surprised at all about this. This drip drip drip does no one any good. Release that complete list once and or all, then we can complain at the same time.
 

pkaide1

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Aug 10, 2005
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Bueno si tu sabe colar caf?, cu?lame el siguiente paquete "Porque los hispanos tienen que ser los primeros en nombrar" a otro perro con ese hueso.
 

Mr. Lu

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Mar 26, 2007
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Bueno si tu sabe colar caf?, cu?lame el siguiente paquete "Porque los hispanos tienen que ser los primeros en nombrar" a otro perro con ese hueso.

Lenny Dykstar was amongst the FIRST named. Then came Canseco and the McGuire. The Latino thing won't fly. Kick em all out of baseball!




Mr. Lu
 

ExtremeR

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Mar 22, 2006
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He doesn't confirmed it, he just said that he doesn't know of what he tested positive and that he is very surprised of the news. The Fox Sport headline is very misleading...
 

Gelmi-an

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Aug 26, 2003
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Ortiz proposed a one year ban on anyone who tested positive.Time to lead by example big pappi.
 

ExtremeR

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Mar 22, 2006
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Lenny Dykstar was amongst the FIRST named. Then came Canseco and the McGuire. The Latino thing won't fly. Kick em all out of baseball!




Mr. Lu

Lenny Dykstra was named in the George Mitchell Report, not dripped off the 2003 anonymous list, Canseco is latin and he confessed himself and also throwed McGwire under the bus.

But out of this 2003 "anonymous" list every name dripped off has been Dominicans: Arod, Sammy, Manny and David. So we have to believe that it was random luck that out of the 104 names only the prominent Dominicans are leaked out.

There is an obvious agenda this year to hurt Dominican baseball that is not even funny, I will open a thread soon of the hits Dominican Baseball has taken in 2009. Of course neither of you are Dominican and believes we are playing the race card here, but the facts are obvious.

Next player to be "selected" in this list will be either Soriano or Vladimir, book it.
 

Berzin

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Nov 17, 2004
5,898
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Lenny Dykstar was amongst the FIRST named. Then came Canseco and the McGuire. The Latino thing won't fly. Kick em all out of baseball!

Mr. Lu

For a while I felt the same way you did Mr. Lu.

But before damning all these cats to hell, you should get your hands on these two books(if you haven't read them already)-

9tgyrk.jpg


and...

2rwq8hx.jpg


"Ball Four" by Jim Bouton was also a good one. These books put into perspective the type of shenanigans players have always been up to. Once put into this context, steroids is nothing but a natural progression, and it is here to stay.

I really don't see how or why people expect major league baseball to be exempt from the ills that plague society, especially when you see the type of characters that have played and continue to play the game.

The Hall of Fame is a building full of great athletes who are also flawed human beings. It is NOT the Church of Latter-day Saints.

But come enshrinement day, they are washed clean of all their sins, are given their halos and after a 5-8 minute speech (the typical "baseb?l beeng berry berry goo to me" story we've heard a million times) are officially walked through the pearly gates and inducted into the Hall.

Phrases like "sanctity of the game" and "level playing field" are nothing but empty platitudes that are devoid of meaning when spoken in the context of pro sports and of life in general.

But this is the kind of propaganda that sits well with Americans, who believe that it is their protestant work ethic, puritan values and incorruptibility that are responsible for this country's success.

Only from America could we have gotten such a protestant and puritanical myth which promotes hard work, wholesomeness, dedication and supreme will as the salvation of mankind.

Very nice on paper, though lacks a certain grounding in reality. It leaves no room for human fallibility, which is mighty in comparison to the qualities we ask these players to live up to.

Once it's over, it will seem as if the only Dominican superstar NOT named on the list is Chico Escuela...:cheeky::cheeky::cheeky:
i6mlpy.jpg
 
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Kyle

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Jun 2, 2006
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i still want to know who is leaking the list. and was this just a case of two more players leaked or two more dominican names leaked ?
 

Mr. Lu

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Mar 26, 2007
1,091
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Lenny Dykstra was named in the George Mitchell Report, not dripped off the 2003 anonymous list, Canseco is latin and he confessed himself and also throwed McGwire under the bus.

But out of this 2003 "anonymous" list every name dripped off has been Dominicans: Arod, Sammy, Manny and David. So we have to believe that it was random luck that out of the 104 names only the prominent Dominicans are leaked out.

There is an obvious agenda this year to hurt Dominican baseball that is not even funny, I will open a thread soon of the hits Dominican Baseball has taken in 2009. Of course neither of you are Dominican and believes we are playing the race card here, but the facts are obvious.

Next player to be "selected" in this list will be either Soriano or Vladimir, book it.



You are right ExtremeR, I am not Dominican. I'm Chinese....Don't assume things...ask around you'll get the facts.

As for Dykstra, if you read your baseball history, he was among the first players in the modern era linked to full-blown steroid use. Before the stigma pushed roids deep into the closet, Dykstra, then a member of the Phillies, was a pill popping roid head, who needed the juice to keep his career going. Everyone knew, no one said anything. And even before the Dominican bust, there was Ken Caminiti, Clemens, McGuire, Bonds and if you look at the list of big name players there are only so many Dominicans on that list. So your conspiracy theory...it goes bust.

I love it how instead of reading between the lines and being angry at the players, Dominicans, in the name of pride, and in defending one of the "few" things that gives them fame on the international stage, become "apologizers" for criminals and liars...

I'll wake up tomorrow morning and read the news and I will guarantee that no more than a blurb about this will be printed in the newspapers. What a sham...

As per your "agenda" theory, that is a bust. There is no agenda, there is now an "effort" to clean up the sport and get the dirt out of the business before it ruins the game and Dominicans are at the bottom of this barrel, fully entrenched in "do anything to win" culture.

Why do you think they are checking birth certificates and doing bone scans on players here? If there is a witch hunt for Dominican players, I'm glad, because they have brought it on themselves. In the DR, you can lie, cheat steal and nothing will ever happen, but in the US, there comes a time when that cheating stops. You can't play the victim card here. It won't fly.

My question is, how good are the Dominican players going to be during the next decade, without the help in a needle? Are Dominicans really among the best players in the world, talent wise, or was that success all artificial? Will Pedro be the only Dominican player to go into the Hall in a generation that saw the rise of Dominican domination in this sport?

True Dominicans should be mad that their players, who wear national colors, and proudly call themselves Dominicans and represent the face of the Dominican Republic around the world. They have embarrassed you. These players have reflected a culture so deeply entrenched in this country and the obvious reflex by Dominicans will be to play the "victim" card and apologize for everything. But what else to is be expected, it's the DR.


Read this:


Mr. Lu
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
......

For a while I felt the same way you did Mr. Lu.

But before damning all these cats to hell, you should get your hands on these two books(if you haven't read them already)-

9tgyrk.jpg


and...

2rwq8hx.jpg


"Ball Four" by Jim Bouton was also a good one. These books put into perspective the type of shenanigans players have always been up to. Once put into this context, steroids is nothing but a natural progression, and it is here to stay.

I really don't see how or why people expect major league baseball to be exempt from the ills that plague society, especially when you see the type of characters that have played and continue to play the game.

The Hall of Fame is a building full of great athletes who are also flawed human beings. It is NOT the Church of Latter-day Saints.

But come enshrinement day, they are washed clean of all their sins, are given their halos and after a 5-8 minute speech (the typical "baseb?l beeng berry berry goo to me" story we've heard a million times) are officially walked through the pearly gates and inducted into the Hall.

Phrases like "sanctity of the game" and "level playing field" are nothing but empty platitudes that are devoid of meaning when spoken in the context of pro sports and of life in general.

But this is the kind of propaganda that sits well with Americans, who believe that it is their protestant work ethic, puritan values and incorruptibility that are responsible for this country's success.

Only from America could we have gotten such a protestant and puritanical myth which promotes hard work, wholesomeness, dedication and supreme will as the salvation of mankind.

Very nice on paper, though lacks a certain grounding in reality. It leaves no room for human fallibility, which is mighty in comparison to the qualities we ask these players to live up to.

Once it's over, it will seem as if the only Dominican superstar NOT named on the list is Chico Escuela...:cheeky::cheeky::cheeky:
i6mlpy.jpg


I don't disagree Berzin. Look at Ty Cobb. A nasty human being if I have ever heard of one. The Babe was a beloved athlete even though he never represented the "image" of a "great American." But I am not arguing about your life off the field. I am speaking of your acts on the field and in relation to the game. Baseball is not above reproach, but there is an admitted difference in the importance of baseball in comparison to football, hockey or basketball, therefore, we expect more from baseball.

The sport is deeply tied with the post WW2 development of the US and the Baby Boom, which saw the US and its greatest generation grow into the Super Power it is today. Baseball is part of that allegory, so you can clearly understand why we have created this "mantra" towards the game.

I might be wrong, and idealistic, but I think the game should always be clean, or we should at least strive for that. I guess this conflict we see in baseball is just an extension of the moral/social conflicts we see in US culture.

Either way, I used to love baseball, and my beloved Red Sox. I still love my Sox, but I'll go back to loving the memories of the game. Before steroids took over the game.


Mr. Lu
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
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The only real news left...

i still want to know who is leaking the list. and was this just a case of two more players leaked or two more dominican names leaked ?
...is why is the list being leaked, the time and motivation.

I couldn't believe ESPN's take on it last night. I wasn't around any media all day, and watched the beginning of SportsCenter last night.

"Today's Big Story - Big Papi and Manny on list. Then Kukijan's pre-made bashing of the "end of the curse" and all that crap.

I don't find this stuff newsworthy any more.

I agree with Ozzie Guillen.
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
5,898
550
113
Baseball is not above reproach, but there is an admitted difference in the importance of baseball in comparison to football, hockey or basketball, therefore, we expect more from baseball.

The sport is deeply tied with the post WW2 development of the US and the Baby Boom, which saw the US and its greatest generation grow into the Super Power it is today. Baseball is part of that allegory, so you can clearly understand why we have created this "mantra" towards the game.

Yes, especially since so many major leaguers served during WWII-and not just behind a desk somewhere, they were FIGHTING.


I might be wrong, and idealistic, but I think the game should always be clean, or we should at least strive for that. I guess this conflict we see in baseball is just an extension of the moral/social conflicts we see in US culture.

You bring up a good point. But I'm distrustful of any institution that encourages, almost demands from it's fans pagan worship of it's star players and evokes divine morality as an innate quality of the game.

The more fans pin their hopes on baseball living up to an image it cannot uphold(as reflected by the people who play the game) the more they will be disappointed.
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
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0
....

Yes, especially since so many major leaguers served during WWII-and not just behind a desk somewhere, they were FIGHTING.




You bring up a good point. But I'm distrustful of any institution that encourages, almost demands from it's fans pagan worship of it's star players and evokes divine morality as an innate quality of the game.

The more fans pin their hopes on baseball living up to an image it cannot uphold(as reflected by the people who play the game) the more they will be disappointed.


I agree. I put my faith in the game. A faith the game asked me to bestow on it and its players, and now I too am disappointed. It's shame and a sham. Back to football. At least I know they juice and they don't hide it.


Mr. Lu
 
?

? bient?t

Guest
I agree. I put my faith in the game. A faith the game asked me to bestow on it and its players, and now I too am disappointed. It's shame and a sham. Back to football. At least I know they juice and they don't hide it.


Mr. Lu

Lu, where were you born? No sarcasm, just come out and say it.

Also, you are disappointed in baseball for steroids use, but are going back to football, where steroids use is rampant. How can you reconcile that?

Warning: no amount of cobraboy-type spin will be sufficient. Just admit your contradiction.

Quick, now, before Cleef deletes my post.
 

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
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Lu, where were you born? No sarcasm, just come out and say it.

Also, you are disappointed in baseball for steroids use, but are going back to football, where steroids use is rampant. How can you reconcile that?

Warning: no amount of cobraboy-type spin will be sufficient. Just admit your contradiction.

Quick, now, before Cleef deletes my post.



I was born in China in 1979. :chinese: As per reconciling, read my exchange with Berzin. He understood the dialogue, and so can you. There is a subtle argument I am posing. It what baseball is/means as apposed to football.

I don't know what you have against Cobraboy, but the use of a posters name in a thread he is not involved in, and would possibly not see and therefore not defend themselves, is childish. Have a problem with Mr. Cobra, take it up with him.

I have no contradictions. I write what I write. Whether you agree, that's on you.



Mr. Lu