Evictions in the D.R.

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rover

Active member
Aug 19, 2007
265
74
28
I am interested in buying a 10 unit house in the D.R.. Starting to get serious I called Fabio Guzman since he has posted allot of helpful replies and has the confidence of many here as well.


I asked to speak to Fabio since everyone else I spoke to did not have a command of the english language that made me comfortable. I was more or less told that was impossible because Fabio is in Santiago living and that the best i could do is talk to his son.

Though his son's english was better than my spanish I still was not completely comfortable that we fully understood each other.

My first question was : How much would it cost if I needed to evict a tenant if the tenant was not paying rent. He said every case was different and that he could not quote me until he knew all the facts of the particular case.

I explained that I needed to have some reference because if I bought this house it was very plausible that one day i may need his services for this so before I jumped into this could he give me a rough estimate since how much could the circumstances for an eviction of non-payment really vary.


I was totally floored when he told me $5,000.00 U.S..

I responded that some of the tenants were paying 400 pesos a month so how could anyone ever consider buying anything in the D.R. if this is the case.

Does $5,000.00 U.S. for an eviction sound right to other people on this board ??

I mean an attorney in New York City charges about $900 with all court fees included.
 
Last edited:
waytogo

waytogo

Moderator - North Coast Forum
Apr 3, 2009
6,407
580
113
Santiago DR
Let's see.....
$1000. to the tenant being evicted
$ 250. to remove their belongings
$ 250. for each to his 4 closest neighbors
$ 250. for the mercado losing his business
$ 500. to have his illegal electric line removed
$1000. to the local police so they don't arrest YOU
and last but not least,
$1000. for the attorney.

As you can see, you are paying the attorney about the same as the
New york attorney.
 
M

mountainannie

Platinum
Dec 11, 2003
16,350
1,358
113
elizabetheames.blogspot.com
rent control

rover said:
I am interested in buying a 10 unit house in the D.R..
----

I asked to speak to Fabio since everyone else I spoke to did not have a command of the english language that made me comfortable. ---
Though his son's english was better than my spanish I still was not completely comfortable that we fully understood each other.




----

I responded that some of the tenants were paying 400 pesos a month so how could anyone ever consider buying anything in the D.R. if this is the case.

Does $5,000.00 U.S. for an eviction sound right to other people on this board ?


I mean an attorney in New York City charges about $900 with all court fees included.
Click to expand...


Suggest that if you do not have enough Spanish to speak to the law firm at Guzman, then you do not have enough Spanish to be a landlord here.

All of SD is rent controlled so getting out an existing tenant is difficult....

And the Guzman firm is one of the best... so ... certainly there are cheaper ones but you do not have enough Spanish to use them....probably....
 
  • Like
Reactions: J D Sauser
bienamor

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
5,050
458
83
Other

mountainannie said:
Suggest that if you do not have enough Spanish to speak to the law firm at Guzman, then you do not have enough Spanish to be a landlord here.

All of SD is rent controlled so getting out an existing tenant is difficult....

And the Guzman firm is one of the best... so ... certainly there are cheaper ones but you do not have enough Spanish to use them....probably....
Click to expand...

The other firm that I know that have english speaking attorneys and probably the clout is the firm of

Virgillio Rosa Bello
809-732-6161
 
J D Sauser

J D Sauser

Silver
Nov 20, 2004
2,940
390
83
www.hispanosuizainvest.com
Dominican laws are VERY protective of tenanants!

mountainannie said:
Suggest that if you do not have enough Spanish to speak to the law firm at Guzman, then you do not have enough Spanish to be a landlord here.

All of SD is rent controlled so getting out an existing tenant is difficult....

And the Guzman firm is one of the best... so ... certainly there are cheaper ones but you do not have enough Spanish to use them....probably....
Click to expand...


Thanks for saving me the time to say just that, MA.

OP, I really think you have NO idea of what you are getting yourself into. I know, it is not what you asked, but as MA commented, your questions seem to suggest that not only would you need to hone your language skills before trying to get into business here, but also you knowledge about local laws and the whole "culture" around the landlord-tenant relationship, ESPECIALLY when it was to be gringo landlord vs. local tenant.

You will also need to learn that there is a COST to ownership beyond just the buying price, some taxes and building maintenance. Especially here and for a gringo "investor", legal fees are an integral part of the ride and money spent on prevention, guidance and advice BEFORE you run your ship onto a coral reef would likely proof to have been cheap money well spent, when you will have to compare it to what you will have to spend just to keep yourself from drowning.

I'd suggest... no, pardon me, I URGE you, to have a formal (meaning "PAID") consultation with a reputable and in the mater knowledgeable lawyer BEFORE you commit yourself in any way to any business or piece of real estate, so that you will have a better idea of what you are getting yourself into.

... J-D.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bronxboy
R

rover

Active member
Aug 19, 2007
265
74
28
waytogo said:
Let's see.....
$1000. to the tenant being evicted
$ 250. to remove their belongings
$ 250. for each to his 4 closest neighbors
$ 250. for the mercado losing his business
$ 500. to have his illegal electric line removed
$1000. to the local police so they don't arrest YOU
and last but not least,
$1000. for the attorney.

As you can see, you are paying the attorney about the same as the
New york attorney.
Click to expand...


I sometimes do not know if people are just trying to be humourous or they are just baffoons.

I asked a serious question that I would think many would both benefit from and be interested in an answer but up to now there is only buffonery and other posts somehow putting some kind of twisted spin that i am somehow a naive individual and am lacking some skill to own property in the D.R.

To reply to the above:

$1000. to the tenant being evicted

Are you saying Fabio Guzman takes your money and then pays the tenant to leave ??? If not what the hell are you talking about ??

$ 250. to remove their belongings

WoW !!! You like to spend money. 2 dominican teenagers will clear out the belongings and put them in the street for $30


$ 250. for each to his 4 closest neighbors

I cannot even begin to wonder what recesses of the mind you delved into to come to this conclusion. And again Are you saying Fabio Guzman takes your money and then pays the neighors money ???

$ 250. for the mercado losing his business

See above


$ 500. to have his illegal electric line removed

As far as I know Fabio Guzman does not include to do any electrical work as part of his fee

$1000. to the local police so they don't arrest YOU

Arrest you for what ???? Are you saying that YOU have to pay off the police not to arrest you when you use an attorney to evict someone. ?????
and last but not least,


$1000. for the attorney.


Even this is more than a New York eviction.


No wonder I hear of so many failing gringo run ventures and buisnissess in the D.R.. Someone fed this poster alot of erroneous information and he bought it and is paying through the nose. WoW !!!!


I still have not gotten a legitimate response to my question. Maybe it is just because those that have yet replied simply just do not know.

I will continue to seek out other attorneys and ask questions and a very simple conclusion will be reached for me if an eviction does cost $5,000 U.S. then no-body can make money on a rental and will loose alot of money if they try.
 
R

rover

Active member
Aug 19, 2007
265
74
28
J D Sauser said:
Thanks for saving me the time to say just that, MA.

OP, I really think you have NO idea of what you are getting yourself into. I know, it is not what you asked, but as MA commented, your questions seem to suggest that not only would you need to hone your language skills before trying to get into business here, but also you knowledge about local laws and the whole "culture" around the landlord-tenant relationship, ESPECIALLY when it was to be gringo landlord vs. local tenant.

You will also need to learn that there is a COST to ownership beyond just the buying price, some taxes and building maintenance. Especially here and for a gringo "investor", legal fees are an integral part of the ride and money spent on prevention, guidance and advice BEFORE you run your ship onto a coral reef would likely proof to have been cheap money well spent, when you will have to compare it to what you will have to spend just to keep yourself from drowning.

I'd suggest... no, pardon me, I URGE you, to have a formal (meaning "PAID") consultation with a reputable and in the mater knowledgeable lawyer BEFORE you commit yourself in any way to any business or piece of real estate, so that you will have a better idea of what you are getting yourself into.

... J-D.
Click to expand...


Dude isn't this what I'm doing ?????? I'm talking to attorneys as a first step so is not your advice a little late ???

I am not (yet) a landowner in the D.R. and may never be but i have had several conversations on squatters etc. and got to say every other ex-pat has a different take on the situation so I made a call to the Guzman firm and if the $5000 US price is the norm then i know all I need to know.


Sorry to say but your response " Thanks for saving me the time to say just that, MA." really makes no sense to me.

My spanish is good but not good enough I think to prudently execute a legal contract in so I sought out a firm that speaks english. When i say that while speaking english on the phone with the Guzman firm I felt that we were not 100% understanding eachother ( while speaking english) can MA. please explain his post where he says that if my spanish was not good enogh to talk to the Guzman firm that my spanish is so lacking i cannot possibly do buisness in the D.R., Sorry i don't get it. I'll repeat. WE WERE TALKING IN ENGLISH.


Oh well if anyone has some real knowldge or recommendations or referals please post. I will not waste more time responding to what seems alot of negativity and people unhappy with there life in the D.R.
 
M

mountainannie

Platinum
Dec 11, 2003
16,350
1,358
113
elizabetheames.blogspot.com
switching languages

rover said:
Sorry to say but your response " Thanks for saving me the time to say just that, MA." really makes no sense to me.

My spanish is good but not good enough I think to prudently execute a legal contract in so I sought out a firm that speaks english. When i say that while speaking english on the phone with the Guzman firm I felt that we were not 100% understanding eachother ( while speaking english) can MA. please explain his post where he says that if my spanish was not good enogh to talk to the Guzman firm that my spanish is so lacking i cannot possibly do buisness in the D.R., Sorry i don't get it. I'll repeat. WE WERE TALKING IN ENGLISH.
Click to expand...


You were talking to a Dominican who was speaking his second language. You were talking to very educated Dominican who works at a prominent law firm which deals with foreigners often. You could not understand his English because your ear is perhaps not trained to the accent that Dominicans have when they speak English. Your Spanish was not good enough to translate what you had heard him say back into Spanish so that you could check with him on whether or not you heard correctly.

Speaking Spanish does not mean that you speak Dominican or can understand or be understood here. This is an Island with a very particular accent. You may be able to understand all the Spanish all day on UniVision and not understand what two Dominicans are saying about you right in front of your face.

So my assumption was that if you could not COMMUNICATE with this attorney, you were not in a position to be thinking of buying an apartment building in the barrio....any barrio.....anywhere where the rent is 400 pesos a month. They will eat you for breakfast. You will never be able to collect your rent. Dominicans will take the apartments, they will occupy them, and they will never pay you. And then when you do try to go and collect the rent, you may be met by their cousin who happens to have a 9mm.

So if you want to invest in real estate for rental purposes here, then stick to the areas where the gringo tenants are.... the North Coast, perhaps some areas of the Capital, the tourist zones.

But what you are proposing to do... to be a landlord for a ten unit apartment building in SD,,, that is really for the big timers.

One apartment, maybe.

Ten? oy vai!
 
R

rover

Active member
Aug 19, 2007
265
74
28
mountainannie said:
You were talking to a Dominican who was speaking his second language. You were talking to very educated Dominican who works at a prominent law firm which deals with foreigners often. You could not understand his English because your ear is perhaps not trained to the accent that Dominicans have when they speak English. Your Spanish was not good enough to translate what you had heard him say back into Spanish so that you could check with him on whether or not you heard correctly.

Speaking Spanish does not mean that you speak Dominican or can understand or be understood here. This is an Island with a very particular accent. You may be able to understand all the Spanish all day on UniVision and not understand what two Dominicans are saying about you right in front of your face.

So my assumption was that if you could not COMMUNICATE with this attorney, you were not in a position to be thinking of buying an apartment building in the barrio....any barrio.....anywhere where the rent is 400 pesos a month. They will eat you for breakfast. You will never be able to collect your rent. Dominicans will take the apartments, they will occupy them, and they will never pay you. And then when you do try to go and collect the rent, you may be met by their cousin who happens to have a 9mm.

So if you want to invest in real estate for rental purposes here, then stick to the areas where the gringo tenants are.... the North Coast, perhaps some areas of the Capital, the tourist zones.

But what you are proposing to do... to be a landlord for a ten unit apartment building in SD,,, that is really for the big timers.

One apartment, maybe.

Ten? oy vai!
Click to expand...



Sorry your wrong again. I would say something and the other party on the phone would answer something else ... not what i asked. It wasn't that I did not understand what he was saying its that he did not understand what i was saying.

You seem to be motivated for reasons that I can only speculate on to want to put the inability to communicate with the other party on me. Coming up with these elaborate theories. It took me a full 10 minutes to explain that I was not purchasing a condo but the property itself.

Anyway I talked to the other attorney recommended by bienamore and had no such problem. hmmmm .. go figure.


It also amazes me that you know nothing about me , who I know, what I'm capable of , and yet you feel qualified to tell me i will get eaten up alive if I do this. But let me guess .. you are fully qualified ... right.


thanks again bienamore so far the only useful and positive reply.
 
Last edited:
M

mountainannie

Platinum
Dec 11, 2003
16,350
1,358
113
elizabetheames.blogspot.com
So what you are saying is that

the attorney at Mr Guzman's firm did not understand your English.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.. a natural one since hundreds if not thousands of people referred here to that firm seem to find them top drawer.

But you know best about your own abilities.

Obviously.



rover said:
Sorry your wrong again. I would say something and the other party on the phone would answer something else ... not what i asked. It wasn't that I did not understand what he was saying its that he did not understand what i was saying.

You seem to be motivated for reasons that I can only speculate on to want to put the inability to communicate with the other party on me. Coming up with these elaborate theories. It took me a full 10 minutes to explain that I was not purchasing a condo but the property itself.

Anyway I talked to the other attorney recommended by bienamore and had no such problem. hmmmm .. go figure.


It also amazes me that you know nothing about me , who I know, what I'm capable of , and yet you feel qualified to tell me i will get eaten up alive if I do this. But let me guess .. you are fully qualified ... right.


thanks again bienamore so far the only useful and positive reply.
Click to expand...
 
waytogo

waytogo

Moderator - North Coast Forum
Apr 3, 2009
6,407
580
113
Santiago DR
rover said:
I sometimes do not know if people are just trying to be humourous or they are just baffoons.

I asked a serious question that I would think many would both benefit from and be interested in an answer but up to now there is only buffonery and other posts somehow putting some kind of twisted spin that i am somehow a naive individual and am lacking some skill to own property in the D.R.

To reply to the above:

$1000. to the tenant being evicted

Are you saying Fabio Guzman takes your money and then pays the tenant to leave ??? If not what the hell are you talking about ??

$ 250. to remove their belongings

WoW !!! You like to spend money. 2 dominican teenagers will clear out the belongings and put them in the street for $30


$ 250. for each to his 4 closest neighbors

I cannot even begin to wonder what recesses of the mind you delved into to come to this conclusion. And again Are you saying Fabio Guzman takes your money and then pays the neighors money ???

$ 250. for the mercado losing his business

See above


$ 500. to have his illegal electric line removed

As far as I know Fabio Guzman does not include to do any electrical work as part of his fee

$1000. to the local police so they don't arrest YOU

Arrest you for what ???? Are you saying that YOU have to pay off the police not to arrest you when you use an attorney to evict someone. ?????
and last but not least,


$1000. for the attorney.


Even this is more than a New York eviction.


No wonder I hear of so many failing gringo run ventures and buisnissess in the D.R.. Someone fed this poster alot of erroneous information and he bought it and is paying through the nose. WoW !!!!


I still have not gotten a legitimate response to my question. Maybe it is just because those that have yet replied simply just do not know.

I will continue to seek out other attorneys and ask questions and a very simple conclusion will be reached for me if an eviction does cost $5,000 U.S. then no-body can make money on a rental and will loose alot of money if they try.
Click to expand...

I never mentioned Guzmans name once.
Keep attacking everyone,.....You obviously have a lot to learn...hmmm..go figure.
You must be a barrel of laughs at a party.... NOT
 
Last edited:
waytogo

waytogo

Moderator - North Coast Forum
Apr 3, 2009
6,407
580
113
Santiago DR
And for you to actually try and extrapolate rhyme or reason from those figures shows everyone, you are a very strange bird.
 
J D Sauser

J D Sauser

Silver
Nov 20, 2004
2,940
390
83
www.hispanosuizainvest.com
rover said:
Dude isn't this what I'm doing ?????? I'm talking to attorneys as a first step so is not your advice a little late ???

I am not (yet) a landowner in the D.R. and may never be but i have had several conversations on squatters etc. and got to say every other ex-pat has a different take on the situation so I made a call to the Guzman firm and if the $5000 US price is the norm then i know all I need to know.


Sorry to say but your response " Thanks for saving me the time to say just that, MA." really makes no sense to me.

My spanish is good but not good enough I think to prudently execute a legal contract in so I sought out a firm that speaks english. When i say that while speaking english on the phone with the Guzman firm I felt that we were not 100% understanding eachother ( while speaking english) can MA. please explain his post where he says that if my spanish was not good enogh to talk to the Guzman firm that my spanish is so lacking i cannot possibly do buisness in the D.R., Sorry i don't get it. I'll repeat. WE WERE TALKING IN ENGLISH.


Oh well if anyone has some real knowldge or recommendations or referals please post. I will not waste more time responding to what seems alot of negativity and people unhappy with there life in the D.R.
Click to expand...

First, nothing against you, but please don't "dude" me, you don't know me yet well enough.

Since you asked for "real" knowledge... here's is one:

If your tenants don't care to vacate the premises on your wishful terms, it can historically well take 1, 2 or even 3 years to eventually have them evicted the legal way... years during which, their attorney (if they have one) or their street wisdom (they generally believe to have) will suggest them NOT to pay ANY rent to you anymore... ever.
Some local landlords may resort to non-legal help to "politely" suggest to stubborn tenants it is indeed time to move on, in well, no uncertain terms, shall we say... but you, the gringo, would be utterly ill advised to try to resort to similar methods. Hence, your lawyer may suggest to try to give them a "little incentive", so they'd happily leave without taking the windows, doors and bathroom fixtures (no joke) along with them. Obviously, a lawyer would still like to see his negotiation skills being paid too, at the end of the day... something somebody else you seem to suggest to be a baffoon [sic... it's buffoon, it's a common mistake, but for further reference... if you like to insult people at least have the courtesy to do it in style] implied in maybe a joking manner.

I understand you got a lot of answers or suggestions and maybe even comments you did not really seem to look forward to. But believe me, not only is it a nature of the "beast" (Internet forums), but some really contain advice you ought to heed.

Good luck... J-D.
 
L

Lambada

Gold
Mar 4, 2004
9,478
410
0
80
www.ginniebedggood.com
rover said:
It took me a full 10 minutes to explain that I was not purchasing a condo but the property itself.
Click to expand...

If the situation arises again, you could try saying in English 'I want to buy the entire building wherein there are 10 apartments' because this would easily translate back to Spanish for an English speaking Dominican attorney.

That is if, at some stage in the future, you contemplate buying a second 10 condo building.

To be fair to the people advising caution before you think about evicting Dominican tenants, they had your best interests at heart. Doing it through a lawyer and a Court does not provide you with personal protection. That might have been what the US$5000 was about. If evicted tenants seek to display their anger it will not be towards your lawyer, it will be towards you. It isn't something I would personally contemplate doing although we did rent out our old home to a school and just let the contract run out and did not renew. We were fortunate in that they agreed to leave, they didn't pay for the damages which came to well in excess of the deposit, but nothing more sinister happened. So we did it through a process of negotiation and did not need to become adversarial. It is when things get elevated to evictions and Courts that the trouble usually starts. If this is a road you decide to go down, have whichever lawyer you choose draw up your will, just to be on the safe side.
 
bienamor

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
5,050
458
83
rover you need to listen

J If your tenants don't care to vacate the premises on your wishful terms said:
Somebody else correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is as long as your Tenant pays his rent into an escrow account at the "Agricola bank" (don't remember the name), you cannot evict him until the court case is settled! And as long as you don't have Dominican residency you will be posting a bond incase you should lose. The court case is where the yearrrrs come in. During this time the money stays in escrow, and you don't see a centavo.

sorry for the edit J D but only needed that part. :bunny:
Click to expand...
 
M

mountainannie

Platinum
Dec 11, 2003
16,350
1,358
113
elizabetheames.blogspot.com
That is true

bienamor said:
Somebody else correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is as long as your Tenant pays his rent into an escrow account at the "Agricola bank" (don't remember the name), you cannot evict him until the court case is settled! And as long as you don't have Dominican residency you will be posting a bond incase you should lose. The court case is where the yearrrrs come in. During this time the money stays in escrow, and you don't see a centavo.

sorry for the edit J D but only needed that part. :bunny:
Click to expand...

That is true. The tenant can pay into the Banca Agricola and he is covered. The landlord has to make the case that he needs to leave. So in order to evict the tenant, it is the landlord who needs to bring the case. And as Lambada said, there are many "ways" that local landlords, with contacts in the police and politicos can use that are not open to foreigners.


This is one of the reasons that there are so many furnished apartments for rent... in the hopes of attracting short term tenants who leave after a couple of years so that the landlord can raise the rent to market value.

So back to the OP, it would seem that the only way that such an investment might be viable is to have the building delivered vacant. And then to understand that a property in which the rents are now 400 pesos is probably not in the best neighborhood, is probably older, will probably need a lot of repairs, and may, in the end, not command any sort of high rents.

The going rents for decent apartments in good neighborhoods in SDQ is more in the 300-700 Dollars a month.
 
J D Sauser

J D Sauser

Silver
Nov 20, 2004
2,940
390
83
www.hispanosuizainvest.com
bienamor said:
Somebody else correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is as long as your Tenant pays his rent into an escrow account at the "Agricola bank" (don't remember the name), you cannot evict him until the court case is settled! And as long as you don't have Dominican residency you will be posting a bond incase you should lose. The court case is where the yearrrrs come in. During this time the money stays in escrow, and you don't see a centavo.

sorry for the edit J D but only needed that part. :bunny:
Click to expand...

mountainannie said:
That is true. The tenant can pay into the Banca Agricola and he is covered. The landlord has to make the case that he needs to leave. So in order to evict the tenant, it is the landlord who needs to bring the case. And as Lambada said, there are many "ways" that local landlords, with contacts in the police and politicos can use that are not open to foreigners.


This is one of the reasons that there are so many furnished apartments for rent... in the hopes of attracting short term tenants who leave after a couple of years so that the landlord can raise the rent to market value.

So back to the OP, it would seem that the only way that such an investment might be viable is to have the building delivered vacant. And then to understand that a property in which the rents are now 400 pesos is probably not in the best neighborhood, is probably older, will probably need a lot of repairs, and may, in the end, not command any sort of high rents.

The going rents for decent apartments in good neighborhoods in SDQ is more in the 300-700 Dollars a month.
Click to expand...


Absolutely correct.
However, tenants pay into Banco Agricola IF they're either law abiding foreigners hoping to do the right thing or people wishing to stay in the property as a paying tenant after a dispute with the landlord is settled (typically, when the landlord is late on repair or maintenance work).
IF however, you'd be facing tenants who just don't pay rent at all... because they found out you are a rich gringo or because their grandmother died again or any other "reason", including and specially because they find out the landlord wants them out... the process of LEGAL eviction can take YEARS... all without rent being paid to neither, the landlord or Banco Agricola.... ever.


... J-D.
 
R

retiree

Bronze
Jan 18, 2008
978
10
0
You are getting great advice here and I agree with all the details of the trouble with evictions. I want to add that I have had experience with this and agree that the cost and the time (years) involved were horrendous and would never ever get into the position of having to evict anyone again. Also, the Guzman firm is well known here as giving good advice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom