Haiti can not catch a break

Dj_iET

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This is truly sad. As many foreign investors are commecing to invest into Haiti. As infastructure is on its way to finally being addressed as there finally seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel, now the earthquake.. my heart is sad.. When will Haiti truly catch a break.. Why is it when the country takes one step forward it is dealt a severe blow to take 2 steps back... :-(
 

RacerX

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this is not a step backward. its just an occurrence. when the infrastructure is rebuilt in the future it will be better and even more, now we may get to the reason why haiti was allowed to falter for so long. Every problem there was not an internal problem. There were colonizers and international interlopers interceding in their affairs all the time.
 

bob saunders

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this is not a step backward. its just an occurrence. when the infrastructure is rebuilt in the future it will be better and even more, now we may get to the reason why haiti was allowed to falter for so long. Every problem there was not an internal problem. There were colonizers and international interlopers interceding in their affairs all the time.

True but Haitians must accept the responsibility for most of the problems of their country- They are responsible for getting in to the situation and they are the only ones that can truly change the country. No amount of Aid will help if the people don't get educated, stop having a million kids, and always blame someone else for their problems. Haitians are resourceful hardworking people and they are certainly not responsible for natural Disasters, but they are responsible for their lack of.....everything.
 
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Willowtears

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True but Haitians must accept the responsibility for most of the problems of their country- They are responsible for getting in to the situation and they are the only ones that can truly change the country. No amount of Aid will help if the people don't get educated, stop having a million kids, and always blame someone else for their problems. Haitians are resourceful hardworking people and they are certainly not responsible for natural Disasters, but they are responsible for their lack of.....everything.

Gods, that was somewhat insensitive, I will not argue that most of what you wrote is true, but Bob how can the poor civilians overpower the corrupt Haitian government? I mean, I know I have mention this before, poverty diminishes all kinds of morality and it's different for everyone. How can proper education be given when poverty takes on a higher toll.

Morality = Ethics, Principles, Goodness, Decency, Probity, Honesty, Integrity etc...
 

RacerX

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True but Haitians must accept the responsibility for most of the problems of their country- They are responsible for getting in to the situation and they are the only ones that can truly change the country. No amount of Aid will help if the people don't get educated, stop having a million kids, and always blame someone else for their problems. Haitians are resourceful hardworking people and they are certainly not responsible for natural Disasters, but they are responsible for their lack of.....everything.

Uhmmm, nope. No they arent. The country is oddly wracked by an enormous amount of debt they have never been able to surmount. This is the only country in the western hemisphere that fought off the french colonizers but yet had to pay reparations to france to recompensate the slave holders. This consumed much of the national coffers for the 19th Century.
Then various US invasions in the 20th Century to impose despots(short hand: DEmocratic leadership) which consolidate power and resources in their hands. Then remove the socialist and populist democratically elected president because of supposed corruption. Not true. Aristede advocated a living wage, French contractors thought that would cost us money. They discovered gold in the hills. Now why would I leave that precious commodity to a socialist populist? Think about it man, when was the last time France had a relationship with Haiti? But all of a sudden in 2004 they want to exercise dominion? So you see FFL invade and depose Aristede and ship him to West Africa???????????????????????????????????????????? Say what now? Hmm, he knew that gold was for the people. Sold on the open market at $900 an ounce! The development that could occur. But the interlopers saw that said $900/oz.in their pocket!
Then thanks to US, the price of food has dropped. Haiti was responsible for the production of 30% of the rice in this hemisphere. Just as a mexico with corn, US food susbsidies have lower the price beynd profitablity and sustainibility. Now farmers move to the cities to look for work(just like Mexico) creating slums and more poverty.
But they gotta find a way oout of that? Come on, if you cannot see the malicious policies and absolutely useless NGOs that come there with a mandate but not a purpose then we are at odds man.
Haiti was the marionette dancing on the strings of international interlopers
 

LaTeacher

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i guess i'm coldhearted like bob. true that it might not be the people's fault, but nobody can rise above their problems if they don't put effort into it. the haitians revolted against france and WON! they WON! that should prove they are a resourceful people, they just need a little hope and a little push and i'm positive they can do it again.
 

Willowtears

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Uhmmm, nope. No they arent. The country is oddly wracked by an enormous amount of debt they have never been able to surmount. This is the only country in the western hemisphere that fought off the french colonizers but yet had to pay reparations to france to recompensate the slave holders. This consumed much of the national coffers for the 19th Century.
Then various US invasions in the 20th Century to impose despots(short hand: DEmocratic leadership) which consolidate power and resources in their hands. Then remove the socialist and populist democratically elected president because of supposed corruption. Not true. Aristede advocated a living wage, French contractors thought that would cost us money. They discovered gold in the hills. Now why would I leave that precious commodity to a socialist populist? Think about it man, when was the last time France had a relationship with Haiti? But all of a sudden in 2004 they want to exercise dominion? So you see FFL invade and depose Aristede and ship him to West Africa???????????????????????????????????????????? Say what now? Hmm, he knew that gold was for the people. Sold on the open market at $900 an ounce! The development that could occur. But the interlopers saw that said $900/oz.in their pocket!
Then thanks to US, the price of food has dropped. Haiti was responsible for the production of 30% of the rice in this hemisphere. Just as a mexico with corn, US food susbsidies have lower the price beynd profitablity and sustainibility. Now farmers move to the cities to look for work(just like Mexico) creating slums and more poverty.
But they gotta find a way oout of that? Come on, if you cannot see the malicious policies and absolutely useless NGOs that come there with a mandate but not a purpose then we are at odds man.
Haiti was the marionette dancing on the strings of international interlopers

OK...forget MD, now your my hero...You could not have said/wrote this louder. Haiti's poverty and political turmoils did not start yesterday, it began hundreds of years ago, and these turmoils continue to hold on strong.
 

RacerX

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Gods, that was somewhat insensitive, I will not argue that most of what you wrote is true, but Bob how can the poor civilians overpower the corrupt Haitian government? I mean, I know I have mention this before, poverty diminishes all kinds of morality and it's different for everyone. How can proper education be given when poverty takes on a higher toll.

Morality = Ethics, Principles, Goodness, Decency, Probity, Honesty, Integrity etc...

nothing he said was true.
 

Willowtears

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i guess i'm coldhearted like bob. true that it might not be the people's fault, but nobody can rise above their problems if they don't put effort into it. the haitians revolted against france and WON! they WON! that should prove they are a resourceful people, they just need a little hope and a little push and i'm positive they can do it again.

Did you have a problem processing what you read on your text books? I blame European imperialism on the conditions in which Haiti and (somewhat) Dominican Republic are in.
 

M.A.R.

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Isn't it CORRUPTION to blame, I think so, they receive aid but it doesn't get channeled to the right places in order to uplift the country.
 

greydread

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true///

Uhmmm, nope. No they arent. So you see FFL invade and depose Aristede and ship him to West Africa???????????????????????????????????????????? Say what now? Hmm, he knew that gold was for the people. Sold on the open market at $900 an ounce! The development that could occur. But the interlopers saw that said $900/oz.in their pocket!
Then thanks to US, the price of food has dropped. Haiti was responsible for the production of 30% of the rice in this hemisphere. Just as a mexico with corn, US food susbsidies have lower the price beynd profitablity and sustainibility. Now farmers move to the cities to look for work(just like Mexico) creating slums and more poverty.
But they gotta find a way oout of that? Come on, if you cannot see the malicious policies and absolutely useless NGOs that come there with a mandate but not a purpose then we are at odds man.
Haiti was the marionette dancing on the strings of international interlopers

This is a very acurate take on how and why events transformed Haiti into the wreck that it was before the earthquake. It wasn't the FFL who removed Aristide. It was U.S. Marines who woke him and family in the middle of the night to transport them away from a "coup in progress" for their safety. There is an in depth account of this in Randall Robinson's book "Quitting America". There was no "coup". His policies were just in the way of the "trickle down" theorists. We all shrugged it off (most, anyway).

But now the World is watching. I just heard President Obama promise an additional $100M to aid in the rebuilding effort. This money will be scrutinized as much as any stimulus expenditure and results will be closely monitored. This administration will make a difference in Haiti although I don't think that P Au P will support over 3/4M people. Many will be relocated. A new government with a new agenda will be required to make this work.
 

bob saunders

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Gods, that was somewhat insensitive, I will not argue that most of what you wrote is true, but Bob how can the poor civilians overpower the corrupt Haitian government? I mean, I know I have mention this before, poverty diminishes all kinds of morality and it's different for everyone. How can proper education be given when poverty takes on a higher toll.

Morality = Ethics, Principles, Goodness, Decency, Probity, Honesty, Integrity etc...

Haitians got the government they put up with. If they could overcome the might of the French, don't you think they could overcome whatever bad government they elected or allowed to stay in power?
 

Marianopolita

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My opinion as humble observer...

I normally don't agree with RacerX but I have say I agree with him 100% regarding the global (meaning the bigger picture) Haitian issue. I have read many posts present and past on the board about Haiti and Haiti vs. Dr over the years but in my opinion very few understand the full scope and even less have knowledge of the history based on their comments.

I know have a long way to go still in understanding the full plight of Haiti's political demise/ crisis from the day it became the first Black republic in the Western hemisphere to modern day, however, I do feel the Haitian people, keeping mind 80% live in abject poverty with less than $2.00 per day are the victims of its series of corrupt and ineffective governments as well useless foreign intervention that have contributed to it being the poorest country in Western Hemisphere. This is such a sad contrast to when it was once the pearl of the Antilles and one of the wealthiest (yes) and beautiful nations in the Caribbean to visit.

In my life experience, the poor have absolutely no political power or influence anywhere. Therefore, it's very difficult, in some cases impossible to evoke change. Pulling teeth from a hen may be simpler. It's the small percentage of wealthy affluent folks who control these countries like Haiti (and the DR) and sit at the top the pyramid and enjoy life from above. To start an effective social revolution today as compared to their historical past is a different beast altogether. I don't believe in Willowtears' socialist tendency as expressed in many threads but I do believe that the poor in Haiti will not be available to help themselves given the past and present tendencies and trends. It's the corrupt governments that have had many an opportunity to make the economic and social improvements that they needed in place in order to make a dent in Haiti's long road to recovery meaning just making the country livable on a day to day basis that have failed miserably.

Even going back just twenty years when Aristide came into power moving forward to now with Rene Preval what has been done? If progress is gradually made by a government to improve the social and economic conditions of a country some improvement should be noticeable in twenty years. Yes, the people elected the government they have but the same can be said for DR's dysfunctional governments in recent years depending on whose party you support. The poor are numerous and politicians manipulate them to get their vote. Once in power they do bugger all.

What this earthquake brings to light once again for the world to see is that the current system and the foreign aid in Haiti is not working. Yes, the civil unrest has been stabilized over the years but all other progress as it relates to improving the lives of the majority of Haitians has been very limited. There has been very little or no help on a local level that I can perceive since the quake. People have been wondering on the streets for almost three days now and the local government has no apparent emergency task plan in place. In the Caribbean, all governments should have a contingency plan for natural disasters because most countries are susceptible. However, to see that there's absolutely nothing in place in addition to the daily situation/ crisis to me is really devastating.

To quote our governor general in Canada, Haitian born and raised in a speech yesterday addressing the situation:

?Nous sommes un peuple vaillant, restez debout?


?Restez debout?, dit Micha?lle Jean aux Ha?tiens | S?isme en Ha?ti


-MP.

?Restez debout?!
 
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CJnNJ

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POPNYChic

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blah blah blah i come from a country thats way better off than haiti so i have no clue what its like to be a citizen of such a country and since i never had to do a thing to get my country where it is and was most likely handed all the basics (that i take for granted) on a platter im gonna sit here and tell much poorer people what they "should" do blah blah blah

thats all i see.


racerx is on the money

if life is a 10 meter race and u just popped up (read: were luckily born) at the 2 meter mark, you cannot say a damn thing to those who have to start at ZERO about how if they just worked as hard as YOU, they could be as great. gimme a friggin break.
 
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Dj_iET

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Wow... I will say i respect everyone's words and honesty.. I myself is of Haitian descent (born in the U.S.) and i can say everyone does make a valid point...i just think the earthquake just came at the worst possible time... when Haiti was finally beginning to progress.. its just sad....
 

bob saunders

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Look I'm not saying that policies by the USA and France mainly, havn't had a detrimental effect on progress in Haiti, but I'm not wrong when I say Haitians have been their own worse enemies. Progress by promoting trade and investment, and if development assistance targets the critical areas of agriculture, health, education, basic infrastructure and business development Haiti can be turned around but it's takes a huge commitment by both the donor nations and Haitians also. If you plant a tree and the next day it's cut down forests will not grow. This is the type of problem Haiti has.
 

greydread

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If you plant a tree and the next day it's cut down forests will not grow. This is the type of problem Haiti has.

I can assure you that Haitians aren't deforestin their country to get rich. They're doing it because their children's bellies are empty. These people are entrapped in a cycle of poverty which is self perpetuating. Education, conservation, family planning and social development are only possible when people's children are being fed. The only lessons that hungry people learn are the ones that affect their immediate survival.