Time to change haiti's culture

Adrian Bye

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This NYTimes oped perfectly describes what needs to happen to haiti. Haiti fundamentally has a broken culture and it needs to be fixed.

Op-Ed Columnist - The Underlying Tragedy - NYTimes.com

quotes:

..it is time to put the thorny issue of culture at the center of efforts to tackle global poverty. Why is Haiti so poor? Well, it has a history of oppression, slavery and colonialism. But so does Barbados, and Barbados is doing pretty well. Haiti has endured ruthless dictators, corruption and foreign invasions. But so has the Dominican Republic, and the D.R. is in much better shape...

...We?re all supposed to politely respect each other?s cultures. But some cultures are more progress-resistant than others, and a horrible tragedy was just exacerbated by one of them...
 
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bob saunders

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I like the statement from the Opinion piece: It?s time to find self-confident local leaders who will create No Excuses countercultures in places like Haiti, surrounding people ? maybe just in a neighborhood or a school ? with middle-class assumptions, an achievement ethos and tough, measurable demands.
 

Roark

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Social infrastructures, their inherent planning, implementation and continual process improvement is the single largest undertaking possible for a society. The Dominican Republic's to-date deficiencies in this very area contribute immensely to our observed daily challenges. Haiti needs substantial capital injection and other types of foreign investment in terms of resources in order to effect this change.
 

Adrian Bye

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I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this thread. But this needs to be raised NOW while the world is thinking about Haiti.

- Haiti as a culture is only a few hundred years old. In the past, natural selection would have weeded Haitian civilization out after this earthquake. (they'd get weaker and weaker, then the DR would take it over, probably wiping out the population).
- The long term NGO approach isn't working and is a waste of international resources
- Millions of haitians have already voiced their opinion on their culture and emigrated to other countries and learned new cultures. Most of the rest would if they could. Haitians in the USA do quite well.

Such a globally connected world is new. Haiti as it stands today is a tax on the global economy. Given natural selection is no longer an option, its time to change their culture so they can begin to function as a truly independent country.
 

ExtremeR

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Odd Timing...

While the article point and the OP thoughts may have it's merits, is it the time to be thinking about culture changes while half of Haitians are perishing under huge amount of debris and concrete??

How about we spend our time thinking in how we can help those poor souls living in an overnight made hell-in-earth scenario.

Whether if the Haitians are guilty or not of their own destiny, it is a discussion for another time I believe.
 

J D Sauser

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Yes, Haiti has endured ruthless dictators, daily massacres at the hands of official and common street roaming and barrio ruling criminals, deforestation and and and...
The saddest truth however is, the dictators were Haitian, neither the criminals or those who can't seem to withstand the sight of a living tree without succumbing to the urge to chop it and convert it into charcoal are extraterrestrials... they too, are Haitians. The barrios or bidon-villes have not been forced upon this nation by foreign hands and neither the total mess long before January 10th. Short, just like the Dominican Republic's problem's roots are to be found primarily in it's people (NOT just "er mardito gobielno"), the Haitian suffering is rooted in it's people's actions and inactions. Obviously they are not at fault for being hit by storms and now this earthquake, but they as a "culture", as a nation and a people, being adults are responsible for THEIR lack of being able to even minimally deal with the natural issues their environment has presented them over the last 500 years.
So, Haiti needs a new culture? HELL sure it does! Like all countries with issues like these, IT STARTS WITH SCHOOL. No schools, bad or lousy schools equal no good results, disaster, poverty and total inability to deal with problems, yes, even the inability to deal with democracy. It's corrupt votes (Dominicans be reminded: salami, selbesa vien flia, me va dal mi casa, e amigo mio) which empower corrupt government officials.

But how would they be able to turn their faith around by themselves. Or do we really want to suggest that they need to be patronized by a foreign power and forcefully re-educated and converted to a new "culture"?


All the above being clearly lacking political correctness... I know, guilty as charged. So what?

... J-D.
 

cobraboy

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But how would they be able to turn their faith around by themselves. Or do we really want to suggest that they need to be patronized by a foreign power and forcefully re-educated and converted to a new "culture"?


All the above being clearly lacking political correctness... I know, guilty as charged. So what?

... J-D.
That's the problem: exactly "which" culture should be "installed" in haiti...or any other poverty-stricked third world ****hole?

You can educate and "change" individuals...and haitian individuals SHOULD be changed. I don't see how you change a culture. It's been tried throughout history with little lasting effect.

I wish Haiti well and I applaud those who have helped with time and resources. They need it, and folks should be commended.

But BILLIONS have been spent on Haiti before the 7.0 and it was STILL a ****hole.

Sadly, there are many questions that have no answers.:(
 

J D Sauser

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I agree with your perception of timing or lack thereof for such a discussion, ExtremeR.
And then again, maybe if there is ever something good to emerge out of the present disaster... some reality checking may not be so out of order.

... J-D.

Odd Timing...

While the article point and the OP thoughts may have it's merits, is it the time to be thinking about culture changes while half of Haitians are perishing under huge amount of debris and concrete??

How about we spend our time thinking in how we can help those poor souls living in an overnight made hell-in-earth scenario.

Whether if the Haitians are guilty or not of their own destiny, it is a discussion for another time I believe.
 

Adrian Bye

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The USA changed their culture ~50 years ago. They taught people not to throw trash out of car windows and keep the country clean. It worked.
 

cobraboy

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The USA changed their culture ~50 years ago. They taught people not to throw trash out of car windows and keep the country clean. It worked.
But took 20 years, and that was just one tiny aspect of culture.
 

Adrian Bye

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But took 20 years, and that was just one tiny aspect of culture.

interesting point, haiti's population is much smaller though.

i bet most aspects of haitian culture is fine the way it is. just a few critical thought processes need to be changed such as "be a leader, not a victim".

a massive marketing campaign across the country, with celebrities like wyclef jean behind it, along with pushing in schools and churches could have a dramatic impact longterm.

also, haiti only has 9MM population, USD $50M could easily take care of it.
 
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Willowtears

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Odd Timing...

While the article point and the OP thoughts may have it's merits, is it the time to be thinking about culture changes while half of Haitians are perishing under huge amount of debris and concrete??

How about we spend our time thinking in how we can help those poor souls living in an overnight made hell-in-earth scenario.

Whether if the Haitians are guilty or not of their own destiny, it is a discussion for another time I believe.

I would probably second that! But honestly if these issues aren't tackle NOW, then when will they be. Let the rescue and research teams deal with finding the poor souls and let us pray for them, however, diplomatically speaking, Haiti's infrastructure, macroeconomics and politics, must be spoken about NOW...after all has been search and done, all the dead bodies are accounted for, everyone will returned back home...then WHAT?
 

J D Sauser

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... I don't see how you change a culture. It's been tried throughout history with little lasting effect...

Yes and no. Germany's culture has BEEN changed quite drastically and I might add, SUCCESSFULLY. EASTERN Germans have been re-set 3 times over a 50 year period!

But it take full dedications (as the Americans did for Germany after WWII).

... J-D.
 

Willowtears

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I really hate to admit this...being that I'm a socialist with eccentric beliefs...I'm extremely worry that when all is said and done...the Haitian diaspora into the Dominican Republic begins. We (Dominicans) are trying to crawl ourselves out the whole and to have thousand of misplace Haitian will only pull us back down. Haitians need to work on their issues and become productive!

My apologies if I offended anyone!
 

ExtremeR

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I would probably second that! But honestly if these issues aren't tackle NOW, then when will they be. Let the rescue and research teams deal with finding the poor souls and let us pray for them, however, diplomatically speaking, Haiti's infrastructure, macroeconomics and politics, must be spoken about NOW...after all has been search and done, all the dead bodies are accounted for, everyone will returned back home...then WHAT?

Start rebuilding, and I don't believe a lot of people aiding will return home in the short-term or medium-term future.

I suspect there will be a worldwide congress only to talk about the Haiti problem, and if I know my people well I believe it will be Leonel who will summon it.

But those are topics to be talked about 2 weeks from now, not NOW. Time can be better spent.
 

Willowtears

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But those are topics to be talked about 2 weeks from now, not NOW. Time can be better spent.[/QUOTE]

You mean two (2) weeks from now, when MY beautiful productive country is over-floating with displaced Haitians, you mean two weeks from now while (now) our Dominican boarders are being repopulated and soon the entire West may be.

As I said before, the Haitians need to stay in their country and WORK on their, infrastructure, Economy, Environmental and Political issues.

Trust me, I'm no white chick with blond hair green eyes...so please don't think my comments are based on racism. I'm very well aware of the famine in Haiti. Haiti needs to start all over again and change the mentality of their people...they need to start accepting and implementing news ways to turn around. I won't blame all their misery on them alone, but now they are a nation that stands alone, therefore, they have to work together.

I want you to think outside the box for now...forget the aftermath of the Earthquake for a moment and think, six (6) months from now.
 
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ginjer29

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It is being reported in the Miami Herald and the Sun Sentinel that 45,000 refugees from Haiti will be coming here and there is talk of bringing at least 4,000 orphans to Florida as well.

DR can't afford an influx of Haitians and the U.S is facing a financial crisis that is greatly affecting middle income and lower income families. We cannot afford to do this in Florida or any state here right now. It's madness.
 

Adrian Bye

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It is being reported in the Miami Herald and the Sun Sentinel that 45,000 refugees from Haiti will be coming here and there is talk of bringing at least 4,000 orphans to Florida as well.

DR can't afford an influx of Haitians and the U.S is facing a financial crisis that is greatly affecting middle income and lower income families. We cannot afford to do this in Florida or any state here right now. It's madness.

You'll only get 50,000 in FL. we'll get millions here in the DR.

After the crisis has been handled, the long term waste of money supporting NGO's in Haiti has to be stopped. Its time for real change.
 

ginjer29

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You'll only get 50,000 in FL. we'll get millions here in the DR.

After the crisis has been handled, the long term waste of money supporting NGO's in Haiti has to be stopped. Its time for real change.


Come on now, it's not going to stop at 50k here.