A fence from Dajabon To Pedernales

Tordok

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Oct 6, 2003
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Why not dIg up a long canal and fill it up with piranhas!!!!! ????

Hey, despite historical hostilities, the DR and Haiti are not at war . Even if they wanted to, I doubt that either side could affford an armed conflict. Any attempts at setting up a fence or wall, would only further militarize a zone that the military already mismanages with corruption and all kinds of abuses.
The border should actually be entirely open, on condition that Haiti stops its delusion of being a real country allows itself to be temporarily terminated as an independent nation.

Politically incorrect -and granted that not entirely original- but here are two potential Neocolonial solutions:
;) A new international entity would be formed by all the countries that have been mostly affected, positively or negatively, by the failures of Haiti to take over running the place. Not a half-hearted UN fideicomiso or peace-keeping presence. Actually abolishing the Republic of Haiti and substituting it with a multinational governing entity with members from the US, the Bahamas, the Vatican, Cuba, the DR, Canada, and France, and of course folks from the country by then formerly-known-as Haiti who would now become citizens of Western Hispaniola and must know how to read and write to be eligible.
;) Alternatively, Iceland, Ireland, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Holland, British Scots, Yukon Canadians, Alaskan Americans, Russia and Denmark can form a federation to purchase all of the real estate in the old Haiti and create a multinational tropical colony for their sun-starved constituents on condition of reforesting the land and creating sustainable food-production projects.

(The Vatican would have to give up on its opposition to strict birth control, since overpopulation and preventable sexually-transmitted maladies are a big part of these people's problems. Else, they can't be part of the consortium and their seat goes to the People's Republic of China who do know a trick or two in this area of demographic control.)

All native Western Hispaniolans who are infirm and cannot be reasonalby expected to ever be able to work, will be sent to hospices for humane care. Those with the ability to work (as citizens of WH) can stay and be paid decent salaries and provided with technical skills and micro-loans. All Western Hispaniolans of school age would be relocated to those nordic nations to get a real education and food. Once they acquire the tools of civilization, they can return to WH as native citizens, to slowly take back their old nation with a fresh start.

The ones who want to cross to the DR would actually be giving up on the opportunity of a lifetime, thus we should end up with less of them becoming illegal aliens and submitting themselves to the abuse that they take in the DR.

Et voil?, science-fiction a'la Tordokienne.:bandit: :cross-eye :eek: :nervous: ;)

- Tordok
 

Pana

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Feb 12, 2005
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Chirimoya said:
Oh yes, and tell your patriotic fellow countrymen to stop employing Haitians. Supply and demand, remember?
You are right about that, the DR government will never do that they love the cheap labor, even if they where to build a wall I would not trust the dominican military they are so corrupt its not even funny they would still let people cross the boder for a price.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Which in turn, begs the question - no prizes for guessing who would build it! ;)

Or, in the spirit of Tordok's solution, why not dig a trench, detach the DR from the rest of the island and float off into the sunset?
 

Tordok

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Oct 6, 2003
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Chirimoya said:
Which in turn, begs the question - no prizes for guessing who would build it! ;)

Or, in the spirit of Tordok's solution, why not dig a trench, detach the DR from the rest of the island and float off into the sunset?

Hi Chiri,
All metaphorical digressions aside, you are absolutely right, the geographical reality overwhelms whatever artificial barriers some may wish to set up. IMO: Let's work people to people, with respect and dignity. Let's work together to help raise everyone's standards of living. Again, educating both Dominicans and Haitians about the nature of their inevitably shared futures, is the only way to protect the land and share its bounties. Where the DR is institutionally dysfunctional, Haiti is nonfunctional. Stability in that nation is vital for the success of both. Ignoring this fact is myopic and dangerous.
- Tordok
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
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Chirimoya said:
There's a Channel Tunnel joke there somewhere...
Well, there is water between D.R. and P.R. And did that ever stop a lot of Dominicans from trying to get there? Heck, Haitians try to get to Miami!

I say we build an electrified cattle fence.* ;)



*Sarcasm impaired people might have a problem with that.
 

Bartolomeo67

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Mar 18, 2004
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Example of building bridges...

rellosk said:
I shudder when someone suggests building walls to keep people out. We should be about building bridges, not fences.

The sons of my dominican friend are setting up an ethanol producing plant in SD using Haitian sugar cane as raw material.
This project is done in cooperation with Haitian authorities. Haiti allows them to grow sugar cane on x number of tareas in return for employment for Haitian citizens. This in order to avoid more of their people crossing the border into the DR and giving them some sort of future in their own country.
It is probably not the economically most efficient way to go about it but since they are the family that sold their finca in Luperon to the Atlantica developers, money is not their first concern.
I think it's beautiful example of solidarity.
Bartolomeo
 

Mr_DR

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May 12, 2002
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Pib said:
Well, there is water between D.R. and P.R. And did that ever stop a lot of Dominicans from trying to get there? Heck, Haitians try to get to Miami!

I say we build an electrified cattle fence.* ;)



*Sarcasm impaired people might have a problem with that.
You took the words out of my mouth.
 

riravaga

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Feb 24, 2005
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It's a problem that we have that most be solved. There are a program of the United Nations where we was selected to improve for the reduction of the poverty, but the inform said that will be so dificul for us to arrive at the goal for haitians.
 

Quisqueya

Bronze
Nov 10, 2003
682
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16
Au Contraire

Building a wall along the border would only cause more havoc at the border. Both sides will be affected tremendously, especially the people living near the borders. The market that opens on the border helps both haitians & dominicans survive without this market dominicans from the border will have to go miles away par exemple Santiago to get goods which is cheaper and closer at the border market. Besides, many families will be turn apart and animosity towards both government will arise. If you dont know, haitians and dominicans who live close to the border are bonded by blood and oppression by both goverments. Thus we have two people who basically are "sin banderas" and basically dont care about neither government because both are neglected.

Worst off, you have dominican "guardias" who are corrupt "desde la cuna" and analfabetos with a superior complex against haitians patrolling the border. Thus, if a wall was built and say one check point between the two countries was established we will have further corruption by the dominican army. And the flow of poor haitians will persist.

I have a question. There are so many gringos living illegally in the DR why aren't they targeted?



Nal0whs said:
This is not about halting immigration. This is simply about controlling the flow of immigrants, big difference.

And by putting such a large obstacle such as a wall in the way, will force most to redirect their crossing border activity to the entry/exit points. Since those areas will have a high presence of military personel who will be well paid, the chances of crossing illegally are greatly reduced.

Maybe its better to head back to Port-au-Prince and apply for a Dominican visa at the embassy afterall!

Listen, if a person is legal, come and go as they please. I don't care who anybody is under such circumstances. Heck, it could even be the horrible Boyer (remember, the one who created the Cibao massacre), even if it was him, if he got his visa and paperwork done, by all means, let him pass. But, if he's not going to adhere to migration laws, well then, we got a problem.

Crossing the border illegally is a crime and as all crimes go, criminals must be punished. Some might say, "well the same can be said of Dominicans entering the US" and I agree.

Criminals must be punished, in this case deportation. But if they are legal, don't even put a finger on them.
 
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Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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Quisqueya said:
I have a question. There are so many gringos leaving illegally in the DR why aren't they targeted?
Because the gringos are not bringing poverty but prosperity to the DR. American expats are bringing in tons of cash that the DR would not see from the AI tourists. Without the Good Ole U.S.of A, the DR would be worst off than Haiti. They will never, ever, ever target the gringos.
"Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You" ;)
 

Quisqueya

Bronze
Nov 10, 2003
682
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Ricardo900,


Aren't you arrogant..Hey, typical americain but I love u guys...I am not one of those poor dominican nor haitian that has never step a foot off the island. So telling me American Expats bringing lots of cash to the DR will not impress me. Please americans are on the grind in the Ol' US of A trying to get by just like everyone else. I would appreciate it if you can come up with a better answer...

IMO, US of A is one of the best countries in the world...and I love it very much but the "Hands that feeds me". Please keep those comments "por la gente en el estrato bajo" BTW, DR and Haiti has always been full with European tourist and Xpats.

Ademas, estoy buscando una respuesta desde el punto de vista de "Los Domincanos". Entonces, quedese en su lugar o un "cuero"... :eek:


Have fun in the DR and come to Haiti as well.. We wouldn't mind your "lots of cash"... ;)

Oh one more thing...What kind of prosperity a gringo from the states brings to the DR? You're american but ur not above the law of another country so get ur papers straight too...

a bientot..




Ricardo900 said:
Because the gringos are not bringing poverty but prosperity to the DR. American expats are bringing in tons of cash that the DR would not see from the AI tourists. Without the Good Ole U.S.of A, the DR would be worst off than Haiti. They will never, ever, ever target the gringos.
"Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You" ;)
 
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rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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Ricardo900 said:
... Without the Good Ole U.S.of A, the DR would be worst off than Haiti. They will never, ever, ever target the gringos.
"Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You" ;)
Don't be absurd.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Well, I have yet to see one American or European resident here to live in something other than an apartment or concrete home.

Contrast that to the hovels Haitians live in, yes I know the bateyes deal, but I'm talking about those who live outside the bateyes.

And, Dominican towns that have received an influx of expats have turn relatively prosperous. (ie. Sosua, Cabarete, etc). If it wasn't for expats, those places might not had turned into what they are today, especially Cabarete since that started with a group of Canadians who "found the best windsurfing spot".

Punta Cana was discovered by "an American investor" who flew over the area in the 1970s and was dazzle by the view of perfect beaches with no development. $$$$ is all he saw.

And do I need to mention Casa de Campo? Um, American built all the way.

Let's not even talk about the influences Americans have had on the progressive side of Dominican culture and even in the modern development of our cities, well the wealthy and middle class areas.

And all those Dominicans expatriates who live in the US are now sending sweet greenbacks by the boatload!

Contrast that to what we see from Haitians (ever been to Yamasa in Monte Plata?) and the conditions don't improve, if anything, they go down.

Just pin pointing out why the moneyed people are never asked to leave. Afterall, I'm sure Port-au-Prince is doing all it can to keep its 300 or so rich families in place in Petionville, no?

Gou Ameriken pase Aiysyen a Dominikani, konprann?
 
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Quisqueya

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Nov 10, 2003
682
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Thanks for your rebuttal

Thanks for ur rebuttal...So I guess Ricardo900 was absolutely right :cry:

Originally Posted by Ricardo900
... Without the Good Ole U.S.of A, the DR would be worst off than Haiti. They will never, ever, ever target the gringos.


NaL's from your post I get the impression that dominicans needs outside sources to keep it afloat. Anway, I want to stay on the topic thus I will not further discussed my question.

If this wall was built b/w the two countries would u also want to cease trade b/w the two?


Nal0whs said:
Well, I have yet to see one American or European resident here to live in something other than an apartment or concrete home.

NaL's from your post I get the impression that dominicans needs outside sources to keep it afloat. Anway, I want to stay on the topic thus I will not further discussed my question.

If this wall was built b/w the two countries would u also want to cease trade b/w the two?




"Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You" ontrast that to the hovels Haitians live in, yes I know the bateyes deal, but I'm talking about those who live outside the bateyes.

And, Dominican towns that have received an influx of expats have turn relatively prosperous. (ie. Sosua, Cabarete, etc). If it wasn't for expats, those places might not had turned into what they are today, especially Cabarete since that started with a group of Canadians who "found the best windsurfing spot".

Punta Cana was discovered by "an American investor" who flew over the area in the 1970s and was dazzle by the view of perfect beaches with no development. $$$$ is all he saw.

And do I need to mention Casa de Campo? Um, American built all the way.

Let's not even talk about the influences Americans have had on the progressive side of Dominican culture and even in the modern development of our cities, well the wealthy and middle class areas.

And all those Dominicans expatriates who live in the US are now sending sweet greenbacks by the boatload!

Contrast that to what we see from Haitians (ever been to Yamasa in Monte Plata?) and the conditions don't improve, if anything, they go down.

Just pin pointing out why the moneyed people are never asked to leave. Afterall, I'm sure Port-au-Prince is doing all it can to keep its 300 or so rich families in place in Petionville, no?
 

Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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Yes, Americans are Pompous & Arrogant

I know, I know, we are arrogant and talk a whole lot of sh*t.
All in fun :classic:
p.s. I am from New York City, so you know we're the most pompous of the bunch :laugh: :laugh:
 

Mr_DR

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May 12, 2002
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Nal0whs said:
In certain stretches of the border, there already exist a fence. Of course, nobody crosses through there now because there is just so much open land elsewhere where crossing between the two nations is only a matter of crossing an anckle high river or a slight inhospitable no mans land!

However, a fence might slow down the flow, but it will not be a permanent solution.

As radical as this may seem, a wall similar to what's being built in Israel will greatly diminish the flow of illegals into the country. Just look at Israel for the proof, Palestinian bombings (prior to the death of their leader) were greatly reduced in the israeli areas where the walls were installed.

The only downside to this is that the wall is extremely expensive.
Nal0whs, it may be expensive only in short term not long term....It would be a very worthy investment.
 
This is my idea and I will organize

I originally came up with the idea of a wall/fence, I prefer a wall of blocks and cements because it can be done rather cheaply, partly because I am tire of hearing my friends who live near the border say how angry they are with the Dominican government, not Haiti since it has no government or police force. Their cattle is frequently stolen and there is nothing that can be done because Dominican police cannot pursue Haitians across the border and who can they contact on the other side? no one. If there is a fence how can they get the cattle or whatever it is they stole over the fence? Throw it over? A fence will simplify the job of the police. Like someone said previosly I am trying to get in contact with Dominican legislators and am also trying to organize a march to "El Palacio" at the beginning of July. If anubody is interested in marching please write comments in my blog from where I will try to organize the march. http://soberaniadominicana.blogspot.com/