After the landing

[AnnaC]

Truely a sad state of affairs, my heart was touched. How hopeless to seek a land flowing with milk and honey on this planet Earth.

Yvette

Yes it's Like the people I see spending hundreds on dollars on those tickets where you match the fruit and or bell in order to win the max of $500.

Like someone else said if they could spend that money on a little business it would be much better than risking your life and then end up flipping burgers.

Not that there's anything wrong with flipping burgers. :nervous:

If you have no job skills at home it's even worse in a strange country.

Very sad

 

[rellosk]

ALOT has to do with visiting dominicans "making believe" that they are doing so well. I knew a guy that he would borrow things(clothing, jewelry) from his brothers and friends before going to the DR because he "needed" to impress his "people"...

I think that attitude might be universal. An acquaintance was telling me when he goes back to China he needs to bring gifts for everyone to show them how well he is doing in the US.

 

[miguel]

True!

I think that attitude might be universal. An acquaintance was telling me when he goes back to China he needs to bring gifts for everyone to show them how well he is doing in the US.

Absalutely. It happens all over the globe but since we were "talking" about the DR, well, you know.

Imo, the less educated or the more "tigre" the person was when he/she left the DR, the more they "show-off" when they go back to the DR. But not in ALL cases.

 

[Guatiao]

Very interesting topic. A few Dominican Americans are aware of the problem and decided to start a "movement", this local NYC band "Los Joaquines" (Spanish Rock-Rap, Latin Sounds) did a song entitled "La Yola" they were inspired by the tragic events in DR but it hasn't gotten any airplay (La Mega & LatinoMix rather play reggaeton than political music), anyway check out this site http://www.dilenoalayola.org/ I don't know if they have the song but it is pretty good.

Peace,
Capo

PS If anybody wants to hear the song I have it just PM me.

 

[dawnwil]

We all have read countless times about how Dominicans leave the island illegally in small boats (Yolas). Their destination of choice is obviously Puerto Rico. Just about 80 miles of sea separates the two islands. Actually when you fly from San Juan to Miami or any other city in that direction, on a clear day it is possible to see the two islands at the same time. So close yet completely different.

After having lived on the North West coast of Puerto Rico for a while now. I have met many people, both Dominicans and Puerto Ricans who have been involved directly or indirectly with the illegal exodus of Dominicans.

What I will write further is something which is hardly addressed. What happens after the landing?
...

QUOTE]

Pavan, thanks for this.

 

[Shelby Stokes]

Really? I don't know

Im Dominican and proud of it .I love my people and culture , but i feel little sympathy for them .They know Damn well what they are getting themselves into .They know that they are risking thier lives going in to a foriegn country with absolutly nothing.The smarter Dominicans (aside from the ones who come hear legally or go to europe)are the ones that fly to mexico(they are never gonna seal it completely) and cross there . Its dangerous but they can always give themselves into the border patrol or have family members for the states help them . if they get cuaght all they have to say is that they are mexicans from a border town .They have to research the town to know a little something of and pass for mexican,from there they try to cross again .All it takes is a little planning and they can get in illegally .This yola business is sooo not a good idea , I just cant imagine what those people must be thinkin ,its this entire image of streets covered with money that has these people nuts .yes, it sucks being poor in DR , but you will not die .You dont hear about people starving to death in DR , so if these yola people are willing to go through humiliation,poverty,exploitation,abuse,racism,discrimination,pain,and extortion ,to either be dead or become homeless second class citizens in PR then i dont see the point in feeling sorry for them .

If all of my life I heard of a better exsistence for myself and my family lay in the borders of PR then I might just create a contraption and hand-paddle my self right on over there. As it stands in DR people know the conditions of their everyday and sympathy is not what is asked for by anyone of us that hear about their efforts to better thier lives, however they do ask, from all of us, to be given a fair shake at advancement when they do reach those borders-legally or illegally. Listen, what I mean to say is that whenever a person chooses to better themselves or their circumstances we should not think that they should consider only the fearful side of that decision but encourage them to never let go of the possible benefits that come with chance and change.

So yes Azul21, do not have sympathy but do have strenght enough for them when they wave goodbye to the shores of DR and look towards their future..... wherever it takes them.

But then again my friends do say I am crazy.

Shelby Stokes

 

[dawnwil]

None of it makes sense to me. This girl does NOT have 10 kids to support or a husband that is beating her. She was young and beautiful and had a job and lived well. She had more gear than me (b/c all of us brought her so much from the States). But her eyes got full of stars when friends went back to buy jeepetas and everybody is getting tummy tucks.

This whole thing sucks big time and I already miss my friend!

wow, Talldrink, sucks big time is right. I'm sorry you know about this so personally.

I guess Chiri has said it all about delusion... but how does one combat this kind of delusion?

Nal has education, and he sees what ought to happen. But how do you expand the thinking of the grossly undereducated? How do you teach common sense?

Education is such a subtle thing, when you see it in light of problems that are commonplace here. There will always and everywhere be the naive and simple minded with stars in their eyes, but it seems to be compounded in a country like the DR by lack of education in the most basic ways.

The real shame is that the lust or quest for 'things' is the proverbial carrot. Not unlike the gold rush in the Yukon, really.There is a similarity to the stories of hardship. Human nature doesn't really change, only the names. Our more advanced cultures are sick because we don't understand what we really need. Not things. No wonder so many are legally doped up every day-- downers, uppers, thanks Doc, just to make it through the week.

I have nothing against material possessions, but they do not magically bring peace and contentment. They do bring comfort. I like to put it in perspective by reminding myself that Kings and Queens of a couple hundred years ago had much less than me.

I sometimes have to shut it out, the problems flying around everywhere. I don't know enough about life here yet to push something worthwhile, but there are a million needs.

This is off-topic, but a tiny example. Here on the north coast, people risk their lives every night by walking or motoring in the dark on the main highway with nothing to indicate their presence to the traffic rushing by.

I had the brilliant idea to produce those reflector lights, the kind that can be sewn or velcroed onto clothing, or double taped onto motos.

I mentioned to a few others the possibility of starting a campaign to teach about the danger of moving about at night without lights while handing out these reflectors. I was told that if what was given out could be sold for a few pesos, that's what would happen. It wouldn't be used. It wouldn't be thought worthwhile.

I can understand this... basic economics. Food first. Survival first, to live another day to be run down on the road.

So weird that anyone could be hungry, when this country produces such bounty. I've never seen things grow the way they grow here.

How do you educate for common sense? Where does it start? I am still a world away from figuring this out.

 

[Chirimoya]

A further thought on TD's friend and her attempt to cross the Strait of Gibraltar: there is another thing they might try, which is to cross into one of the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla (much more likely to be Ceuta, because Mellila is miles away). Once you are in Ceuta you are in Spanish territory, even though you are still on the African continent. There are ferries from Ceuta to the Spanish mainland, and even though they are technically internal journeys, I would guess that there is a good amount of surveillance for illegals trying to make this trip too.

Talldrink - how did your friend get to Morocco? I doubt very much there are direct flights from the DR -- if there were, I would be interested, as it would be another potential route for me to fly home.

Presumably she transited through a European county to get there - how did she do this without any sort of visa?

Yet another route might be to cross to the Canary Islands, which are also part of Spain and are off the Moroccan coast. Many try, few make it.

 

[badpiece33]

Whenever I meet someone in the DR and we spend any time chatting this subject always comes up. I have to laugh when I tell people that just because I take a few vacations that does not make me rich. And when I try to tell them that the streets in New York City are NOT paved with gold, they sort of just look away and divert their attention to something else.
They don't want to hear reality.
And alot of it has to do with the dominicans who return to their country with their $100 shoes, gold jewelry that would make Mr.T blush and arrogant attitudes. They give native dominicans an extremely false view of what life is like for them in the US. I told a friend in Santo Domingo that it may come as a surprise to her but I have to WORK for my money. Nobody gives me anything and she seemed genuinely shocked. So go figure.
As for the "dominicanitas" that are used in the sex industry in Puerto Rico, there is the same underground network here in NYC for dominican girls. Except here they have more options-but the lure of easy money is just too hard to resist for some.

You hit it right on the head there. Every time a Dominican who lives in NY goes back to DR to see their family they go out and get brand new clothes just for the trip which they can hardly afford anyway. They get to DR and act like a big shot around their poor relatives, giving them the brand new clothes they just bought and buying bottles of Johnnie black and Hennessy in the clubs like it is nothing to them, Then they get back to NY and complain that they gave away their clothes which they are still paying on the credit card for months to come.
Badpiece

 

[carl ericson70]

You hit it right on the head there. Every time a Dominican who lives in NY goes back to DR to see their family they go out and get brand new clothes just for the trip which they can hardly afford anyway. They get to DR and act like a big shot around their poor relatives, giving them the brand new clothes they just bought and buying bottles of Johnnie black and Hennessy in the clubs like it is nothing to them, Then they get back to NY and complain that they gave away their clothes which they are still paying on the credit card for months to come.
Badpiece

Amen to what you and miguel are saying. The yorks and expat dominicans make a bloody sport of showing off the trappings of wealth to poor relatives in the DR. The relatives of course, get a false impression. What they forget to mention is the blood, sweat and tears that go through in the u.s. They probably don't mention the low paying & menial work that they do, the long hours or numerous jobs, that basicly amount to just getting by.

On the topic at hand: I'm with those who feel that the money and efforts that poor dominicans use to get to the u.s. or abroad could be better spent on improving their conditions in the DR. Immigration to richer countries is not the solution for combating poverty around the globe. Call me old fasioned, but I think that opportunity isn't just something that's just given to you, but also something that you make. Look at what the chinese have done with singapore, an island nation with zero natural resources. Now one of the wealthiest & most advanced nations on the planet.

 

[rellosk]

..Look at what the chinese have done with singapore, an island nation with zero natural resources. Now one of the wealthiest & most advanced nations on the planet.

Actually, the British were responsible for building up Singapore. Most of the wealth was created when Singapore was a trade center.

 

[carl ericson70]

Actually, the British were responsible for building up Singapore. Most of the wealth was created when Singapore was a trade center.

Eye....... but could they have accomplished this without the hard work and industriousness of the chinese?

 

[TCIDR]

Dominicans inTurks And Caicos

The dominicans here in Turks and Caicos arrive via air transport. Most come here overstaying their visas.....while order are came on work visas.

In the US, some dominican may not have the chance to explore thier capabilities, but in Turks every opportunity is provided for them to take advantage of.

Downtown Providenciales looks like a dominican town.....or have a dominican atmosphere. Most, if not all of the bars and club there are of domincan nationals and dominican music. Also the park that is downtown is predominantly occupied by dominican base ballplayer, as sports is not high on this island's agenda.

There are no difference in salary because you're dominican. Now while some dominican have low paying jobs, its not because they're dominicans. Often it is because they can't speak english or enough english and they appear to be encouraged to. Many of the ladies works either in a bar, restuarant or as a cleaner/maid (not often as a maid) Maid service is not popular here outside of hotel/resort where housekeeper is a need. Due to the cost of living here that lifestyle is not incorporated. The dominican guys work in an array of service area...most popular being the construction industry. This is the industry that allow these cars to build a house back at home for thier parents while they're here

But from what i've observed, money or high salaries don't seem to be the motivation for dominicans here. Having fun and being entertained is of a maximum priority.

Of the Jamaicans, Haitian and Dominicans we have here from the Caribbean region, The dominicans spend much more money

The same kind of delusion that Dominicans have in wanting to reach the shore of Puerto Rico, is that same kind that TC islanders had in the early 70's. Well not with the same degree of desperation and motivation. TC islanders wanted to visit the states so they can say to thier friend I've been to the states and you've never been, and would talk about imagination that create dreams......well not dreams really but a consuming lust.
I can understand it first hand.
Growing up surrounded by only a few thousand people sharing acquintance with all of them. The community as a whole share the same struggles and everyone seem to be peg with a familiar fate. We all thought that we deserve more or simply better. Nobody knew that they were poor until friends and other family member came back from a visit from the Great USA (miami)
Wow toys for christmas, how cool....and look this new bicycle. I am going to ride down the street so all my friend can see me and make them so damn jealous. Ok competition is going to start now because my friend just told me he will be going to the State tommorrow. {oh god} I got to go talk to my mom so I can go when you go. (I don't want my friend to visit the states before I do, otherwise he will be better and more advance than me, then I may have to grow up and work for him. I think I will have to hate him) So now I want to go to the states even more.....its in my heart now. People have mentioned of the glitter and the lifestyle and that you can become RICH. What are you serious?
From this point on you can customize the life you want to lead and it will be accomplish from trip to Miami. I can go to disney land and talk to Mickey mouse and become an actor. Hehe. Or you can watch me on TV playing Basketball, styling and profiling. I can be what i wannabe.
So now I am in Miami and now I want to go everywhere and do everything. Oh man I thought that was free. I still feel special though because I am in the Great USA. I am a bit disappoint because my dream are not exactly living up to its standards. Anyway when I return home I will tell my friend a wonderful story that make them think my mind, heart and soul have emerged into one accord. I will be adored anyway because I went to the place that thier hearts lust. I finally now will be able to have sex with that particular girl because she will alway want to hear my stories. It will be living romance to her ear. Seduction by deceit. Next in line! So now I have several girlfriend and the other girls know too but I am now to cool to care. The guys don't particularly like me either because their now inferior qualities....they stay away from me because they may not have anything to talk about when I start talking about that time did such and such a thing (all talks about imagination that feed the all consuming lust of visiting miami. It become a never ending list of accomplishments)

Then other people went to thier dream city to find thier lifelong dream is a myth. And my stories lost its value except to the extremely dull personalities.

Everybody grew up, became adults with jobs or further education in a different country and travel became a normal part of thier life. People discover that the USA is much Bigger than Miami and thier are other place in the world to visit. Now you can't impress anybody with travel anymore because these days they don't give a rat's *** if you were on the moon


I think if the dominican republic was better where kids when they become adults get jobs that will give them the opportunity to travel....the states would be discovered as a myth. But as long as there a still the so call mountain people they can be trick with a twinkle of the eye

 

[carl ericson70]

The dominicans here in Turks and Caicos arrive via air transport. Most come here overstaying their visas.....while order are came on work visas.

In the US, some dominican may not have the chance to explore thier capabilities, but in Turks every opportunity is provided for them to take advantage of.

Downtown Providenciales looks like a dominican town.....or have a dominican atmosphere. Most, if not all of the bars and club there are of domincan nationals and dominican music. Also the park that is downtown is predominantly occupied by dominican base ballplayer, as sports is not high on this island's agenda.

There are no difference in salary because you're dominican. Now while some dominican have low paying jobs, its not because they're dominicans. Often it is because they can't speak english or enough english and they appear to be encouraged to. Many of the ladies works either in a bar, restuarant or as a cleaner/maid (not often as a maid) Maid service is not popular here outside of hotel/resort where housekeeper is a need. Due to the cost of living here that lifestyle is not incorporated. The dominican guys work in an array of service area...most popular being the construction industry. This is the industry that allow these cars to build a house back at home for thier parents while they're here

But from what i've observed, money or high salaries don't seem to be the motivation for dominicans here. Having fun and being entertained is of a maximum priority.

Of the Jamaicans, Haitian and Dominicans we have here from the Caribbean region, The dominicans spend much more money

The same kind of delusion that Dominicans have in wanting to reach the shore of Puerto Rico, is that same kind that TC islanders had in the early 70's. Well not with the same degree of desperation and motivation. TC islanders wanted to visit the states so they can say to thier friend I've been to the states and you've never been, and would talk about imagination that create dreams......well not dreams really but a consuming lust.
I can understand it first hand.
Growing up surrounded by only a few thousand people sharing acquintance with all of them. The community as a whole share the same struggles and everyone seem to be peg with a familiar fate. We all thought that we deserve more or simply better. Nobody knew that they were poor until friends and other family member came back from a visit from the Great USA (miami)
Wow toys for christmas, how cool....and look this new bicycle. I am going to ride down the street so all my friend can see me and make them so damn jealous. Ok competition is going to start now because my friend just told me he will be going to the State tommorrow. {oh god} I got to go talk to my mom so I can go when you go. (I don't want my friend to visit the states before I do, otherwise he will be better and more advance than me, then I may have to grow up and work for him. I think I will have to hate him) So now I want to go to the states even more.....its in my heart now. People have mentioned of the glitter and the lifestyle and that you can become RICH. What are you serious?
From this point on you can customize the life you want to lead and it will be accomplish from trip to Miami. I can go to disney land and talk to Mickey mouse and become an actor. Hehe. Or you can watch me on TV playing Basketball, styling and profiling. I can be what i wannabe.
So now I am in Miami and now I want to go everywhere and do everything. Oh man I thought that was free. I still feel special though because I am in the Great USA. I am a bit disappoint because my dream are not exactly living up to its standards. Anyway when I return home I will tell my friend a wonderful story that make them think my mind, heart and soul have emerged into one accord. I will be adored anyway because I went to the place that thier hearts lust. I finally now will be able to have sex with that particular girl because she will alway want to hear my stories. It will be living romance to her ear. Seduction by deceit. Next in line! So now I have several girlfriend and the other girls know too but I am now to cool to care. The guys don't particularly like me either because their now inferior qualities....they stay away from me because they may not have anything to talk about when I start talking about that time did such and such a thing (all talks about imagination that feed the all consuming lust of visiting miami. It become a never ending list of accomplishments)

Then other people went to thier dream city to find thier lifelong dream is a myth. And my stories lost its value except to the extremely dull personalities.

Everybody grew up, became adults with jobs or further education in a different country and travel became a normal part of thier life. People discover that the USA is much Bigger than Miami and thier are other place in the world to visit. Now you can't impress anybody with travel anymore because these days they don't give a rat's *** if you were on the moon


I think if the dominican republic was better where kids when they become adults get jobs that will give them the opportunity to travel....the states would be discovered as a myth. But as long as there a still the so call mountain people they can be trick with a twinkle of the eye

Kudos! some very thought provoking comments and I concur 100% with what you've written. The idea that the streets of the u.s. are paved with gold, is nothing more than a myth. If this were indeed the case each and every american born citizen would be a jet-set millionaire. I know that this foolish notion is perpetuated by returning expats, but some of it's due to the images that the media spouts abroad, which leads to exaggerated perceptions in poorer nations. This is why many immigrants to the u.s. have this ummm....... wild-eyed fantasy about becoming millionaires over-night. Not knowing that there tens of millions of people here who're as poor as they were in their home countries. Not to mention that the majority mid class is basicly living day to day.

 

[TEHAMA]

I will be adored anyway because I went to the place that thier hearts lust. I finally now will be able to have sex with that particular girl because she will alway want to hear my stories. It will be living romance to her ear. Seduction by deceit.

Very enlightening. With my personality type, I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to have such a constant, nagging, and insatiable lust to travel. It might also be the reason for high drug use on the island. Thanks for sharing your insight.
TEHAMA

 

[TCIDR]

When I returned from the University of Miami, casual acquintances asked me why didn't you stay and worked over there. You could be a millionaire.

My response was: "I can make more money at home, plus I don't have to pay no income or property taxes. Furthermore, you guys spend much more money than many americans I've encountered and you don't seem to be burden with a sh*tload of debt. The American Dream means absolutely nothing to me. The credit system in the United states have MANY americans in financial disparity. This is one of the reasons many of them can't retire at early age or even relocated due to this system. This impression you have that every american is doing better than you is from anything that represent truth. Wise up."

For individuals from Third World and Developing countries, often times the opportunities are much greater at home, and it is not seen until some outsider come and show them how to use such opportunities to make money. And what is mind bothering is that many of the locals are fortunate enough to have money and capture those opportunities, but foolishly burn it in the wind then have the nuts to ask howcome they don't have anything and the government are inclined to foreigners. Anyway, Mistery is a mistery and sometimes it is a burden to the blindness of my mind. I've once pointed out an example where this guy came here to take hold of an opportunity,while having nothing, nothing, only giving the impression that he did, because admiration as an americans and even canadians make third world and developing country people complete as$h*les and idiots without any mental liberation.
In poorer countries, a huge majority don't get the opportunity to take vacation and thier exposure of acquintances from United state, often times arrogant vacationers on a credit card and dollars to impress and the medias that give the idea that if they were american they can be THIS MUCH better.
Many of whom now live in the states, it is only pride that keep them from coming home...And if they do,they have to make a very good impression. It is not easy for them because they are just like those who already have a mindset burning with an everlasting lust for living in the US (except that they are immerse into the reality of it) .....and that being there will automatically make you more advance and improved. Upon returning visits and/or to settle back in thier native land, they have to show the individual how they have became somewhat americanized. Even when they return home (like in a deportation case) they mentioned that they are only here for a few day. The funny part usually is that these individual are more americanized when they are outside of america, while when they are in the US they are more along the line as representing thier homeland.

Poverty is not particularly the main reason people want to move to US. It all point down to this image. A concept of charming myth....an illusion characterized by an unseen misery. This image is not prejudice as it affect people from all stratas of society making respectable and chaste girls turn tricks. You can be educated and have class to last for a lifetime, but fulfilling and enlightening words can create stars even in the eyes of individuals whom are very set in thier ways and have a perpetual confidence in themselves.

For the most part, to me personally, relocation ought to be a skill, not a constant longing.....and its reality shouldn't be of any surprise just to sum it up

 

[Talldrink]

Hey, guys thank you so much for your concern. No news on my friend crossing to Spain yet, however, she has called home to say she is 'ok' - I dont believe it tho...

Chiri, thank you for your insight on the journey. I think she flew into Morocco - not sure. Again, I heard about it after the fact. She didnt tell any of us (friends in US or even in Spain) that she was doing this - Obviously because she knew we would object - we know deep down in our hearts when we are being foolish... I pray and hope she makes it, either back home or to Spain where there's plenty of people waiting for her.

I will keep you guys updated on this once I hear any news. Thank you for you again for the PM's and your thoughts. Once again I am reminded that this in fact a little pueblo just like in DR - thanks for your concern.

 

[Chirimoya]

TD, thanks for the update. I had been wondering about your friend and was going to ask you if you had had any news. It must be a very anxious time for her friends and family. I really hope it turns out OK for her and her companions.

 

[Talldrink]

OK - just an update on another 'fracaso'...

My friend is back home safe and sound. She never made it past Morrocco b/c it is too hard to get into Spain this way. She said she had a horrible experience with the Morroco people (ella dice que son MALOS!) and she is now broker than when she left.

I really hope this is a lesson for her and others...

 

[ripped1997]

yo puerto rican need stop hating on dominincan it not there falut that there poor puerto rican need take look at them self before say anything im not hating on puerto rican im saying something