Anglicismos?

[Tordok]

I'm not the academic in this area, but the whole subject seems to relate back to Lesley's "magistral" explanations about sociolinguistics. This one is yet another example of how intriguing these language topics can be. We all have usage preferences formed by our cultural experience and level of intellectual curiosity into language esoterica. We tend to form expectations but often forget the rules.

We all know that languages rarely go unchanged over long periods of historical times. Around the world, like people, some languages are under surveillance, others have arthiritis, others thrive and get fat, other end in suicide and others get castrated. So, we create official protective devices for them. Rules. Necessary but often arcane and inconsistent. Language is there to maintain its original mandate, which is to serve as a tool for humans in order to optimize social interactions. In order to do that, it must reflect whether each individual word or idiom remains relevant to current users. RAE is slower than reality, so sometimes it does take a while for them to become inclusive and hip. :nervous: But hopefully, they do keep track of things.

We should remember that on each day, on any given interval, there are substractions and additions to the language. Actually, to the languages. Language can be like humans. Verbal units are born all the time. Others come into action later in life with bad or good habits. Like us, some seem fair or tolerable, others seem sinister or even blasphemous.

But not everyone is allowed by nature to survive. Currency is subjective. In Life, we all perish or fluorish during different times of our short natural spans.
Likewise some words have the long, majestic ancestries that slowly but usefully evolved. Most fade away, old and tired. Many, die lonely. Others remain alive in other forms or in other languages as vigorously as when they first peaked. There are words that are castaways and roamers, other zombies that came back to life after a dormant period. Many are combinations that if separated again may lose their relevance. Some words come out like orphan rockets, poppin' up from the spontaneous combustion of our many cultures.

With globalization's expansion, all languages will mingle, and you know the rest...I would suspect that if humankind gives itself enough time instead of self-anihilation, that there will be an eventual global language that is indeed a mix of everything left behind. It's both weird/eery and cool/exciting to think of a world where language is no excuse to avoid communication. In the meantime, some of us do have fun trying to have these helpful discussions.

- Tordok

 

[NALs]

Here is an interesting article regarding anglicism and its acceptance into the Spanish language.

Sorry, the link is only in espa?ol.

http://www.perspectivaciudadana.com/article.aspx?id=8595&tabId=60&mid=219

-NAL

 

[Bok]

Baseball

Deep murky waters full of anglicismos here. No need to explain where the "inspiration" comes from.
I'll just leave one example.

Homerun becomes 'jonron' :angry:
However ESPN-reporter Ernesto (something), who I believe is Dominican, is rocksolid and always uses 'quadrangular'.

 

[Don Juan]

Anglophones we'll all some day be!

Tordok, you have syntax, & a ye ne sais pas manner of diction that reads with fluency & logic....But I can't agree with you that eventually, " all languages will mingle" and become one. As we all know,the premier language of our time is English and it will continue to be so until a new version of it or some sort of melange of many others proves to be the most practical or functional for most. But it won't involve all languages. just the most prominent western European languages. all others will die including Russian and Chinese.
Humanity continues to evolve & with it, a need to communicate in the most literate & direct sense thus, irrevocably, revolutionizing in perhaps a very
radical way, our parlance.
The English language, as it is spoken today, may be as incomprehensible in a hundred years' time as it was five hundred years before.
To make sense of changes in jargon incorporated by necessity or simple alteration, languages have to borrow terminology from one another and because technology is a huge generator of these and needs to be digested in its simplest form, is, and will continue to be the virus that will kill the tongues that won't conform.
Adapt or perish.

 

[monsoon68]

Hi Chiri,
I specifically entered the whole phrase "exhibici?n de arte" in Google and it came back with about 14,800 results. So it is not unusual.

I also did find the following expalanation, which you -and the rest of us confused souls- are looking for:

http://emiliomartinez.galeon.com/expoexhi.htm

It sort of makes sense to me, but what do DR1 folks think?

- Tordok

"Exposici?n" is used for a show of artistics and non-artistics items. This is why we have "Palacio de Congresos y Exposiciones" and if you check the major museums --at least in Spain--, museums have "exposiciones".
"Exhibici?n" is has to do with the action of "exhibir". Then, we have "exhibi?n de t?cnicas de vuelo" or any skill or demostration.
Just to remember, you can relate "exposici?n" to something "static" and "exhibici?n" to "action".
However, if you do a search in the internet, most latinoamerican countries use "exhibici?n" for art and non-art, while in Spain, we always say "exposici?n".

 

[Marianopolita]

Spanish today and in the future

After reading the last few posts I just wanted to briefly comment on the direction that Spanish and other languages may be headed. Current linguistic research of the Spanish language today shows that English is the third most spoken language (second according to certain statistics it alternates with Spanish) and still is the most widely spoken lingua franca (a language spoken by those whose first language is not English).Traditionally English is defined as the language of 'business' and will continue to dominate for years to come. For those who are interested I will leave it up to you to research. There are many good linguistics textbooks and resources on this subject matter. However, to give you an example of some of the conformity being forced upon the Spanish language but is still being resisted is the usage of capitalization rules (which I recently find myself having to review because I use more than one language daily and when I am not careful I do err). Currently, there are two dynamics at play formal vs. non-formal written Spanish. Once again the Internet has contributed to the slow destruction and 'attempted' conformity and as a result Spanish capitalization rules are not respected. Again the RAE and its sister governing bodies will decide if any changes will be made but to date Spanish capitalization rules remain as they have been established centuries ago.

In non-formal Spanish such as Spanish used on Internet websites, email, message boards and other types of medium for correspondence adjectives of nationality in Spanish should not be capitalized according to grammar rules. I constantly see Soy Dominicano and it s/b Soy dominicano. Adjectives of nationality are capitalized in English but not in Spanish. I also see days of week capitalized in the middle of a sentence- Hoy es Martes s/b Hoy es martes. Another area that is a challenge for the RAE is the title of books and headings. Spanish rules state that only the first word is capitalized and the rest of the heading or title should not be unless there is a name or proper noun in the title (and especially not prepositions such as de, por, en etc.). For example: La visi?n de los lectores is a correctly written Spanish title and not La Visi?n De Los Lectores which completely goes against the rules of capitalization in Spanish. As well there are unique rules on how to use el in a title that are not followed in informal Spanish.

There are many other examples of English rules being imposed upon Spanish in non- formal settings, which will eventually, have a serious impact on Spanish in years to come. One way I cope with NOT using informal Spanish is to read good internet sources thus not to get used to or somewhat conform to the misuse of certain aspects of Spanish grammar rules, properties etc. I have mentioned this before and I will gladly mention it again to those who like reading newspapers on the Internet. The good sources are bbcmundo.com (flawless grammar, rules are followed etc.), elmundo.es, abc.es and elpais.es.

I believe this dynamic formal vs. non-formal Spanish as well as anglicisms, calques, loan words, loan phrases, neologisms and the other foreign impositions that we have seen, currently and will continue to see have contributed and will continue to contribute to the transformation of contemporary Spanish over time.


LDG.

 

[Guatiao]

Quick Question

Is an anglicismos the same as a Spanglish word?

For example roofo for roof, basment for basement, etc. Alot of young people use roofo, there is even a music video show on Mun2 that goes by that "word". I used to use that word until I beat techo into my head, people in DR were always like what are you saying and I had to point to the ceiling, so embarrasing.

Peace,
Capo

 

[MerengueDutchie]

Some more spanglish:

Los tennis - tennisshoes
Vivaporu - Vicks Vapo Rub
Ikkimen - X-men

And many, many, more..

 

[bob saunders]

las panties

 

[Marianopolita]

Capo...

Your example 'rufo' is not only an example of an anglicism but it is also what is called an americanismo. The word and usage originated in the US. My experience is the opposite of yours. I had never heard the word until sometime last year (2005) in NYC and I had know idea what 'rufo' was. Someone had to actually say to me that it means 'techo' and my thought was 'only in the USA'.

Your experience in the DR should tell you something about the word and its usage. As well, I know there are many other words like 'rufo' that form part of the americanismo vocabulary. However, the important aspect to know is that some of these words are either 'colloquial' or 'slang' and don't expect to find them in Spanish grammar textbooks (yet-I suppose) but dictionaries that are up to date sometimes do include these new anglicisms and clearly indicate that they are americanismos. There are also specialized dictionaries that have americanismos only. The standard word for basement in Spanish is s?tano and it is used. 'Basement' is an anglicism that is common from what I can perceive. I never say 'basement'. There is no need to when there is a Spanish word for it however; my experience with the upcoming generation of Spanish speakers in my world, Montreal/Toronto is that few will know that the word s?tano exists.

The other aspect with some of these anglicisms is that the Spanish word derived from the English word does not always retain its meaning. There is a change in meaning from source language- English to target language-Spanish. From the context speakers usually can decipher what the intended meaning is but in many cases when an English word is transformed into a Spanish word (especially verbs) the true meaning is not usually retained but people continue to use the word erroneously in Spanish. There is a high concentration of misuse of these types words in places were Eng/ Span coexist.

Suerte y saludos,

LDG.

Is an anglicismos the same as a Spanglish word?

For example roofo for roof, basment for basement, etc. Alot of young people use roofo, there is even a music video show on Mun2 that goes by that "word". I used to use that word until I beat techo into my head, people in DR were always like what are you saying and I had to point to the ceiling, so embarrasing.

Peace,
Capo

 

[Stodgord]

Is an anglicismos the same as a Spanglish word?

For example roofo for roof, basment for basement, etc. Alot of young people use roofo, there is even a music video show on Mun2 that goes by that "word". I used to use that word until I beat techo into my head, people in DR were always like what are you saying and I had to point to the ceiling, so embarrasing.

Peace,
Capo

How about "el bloque" for quadra o manzana. "Fulano vive en ese bloque"

 

[monsoon68]

How about "el bloque" for quadra o manzana. "Fulano vive en ese bloque"

"Fulano vive en ese bloque" es correcto. We use "bloque" in Spain for "un bloque de casas". This is not an anglicism.

I think you meant when people say: "camina dos bloques m?s abajo" instead of "dos cuadras/manzanas m?s abajo" o in Spain "dos calles m?s abajo".

"Manzana" and "cuadra" is more used in latinoamerican countries.

 

[Marianopolita]

Update-

The focus of late of Bien Dicho a section of the el Nuevo Herald has been 'anglicismos' and some of the approved acquisitions into the Spanish language that have been added to the DRAE with hispanicized forms. Other usage in the spoken language may be prevalent but if it's not in the DRAE it's not considered "formal" Spanish but rather "informal" speech. In addition to anglicismos the focus has been on grammatical forms that are specific to English but due to the influence of Eng over Spanish in Miami and in other areas literal translations from one language to another occur and are used daily but are not considered true forms of the Spanish language and sometimes the meaning is distorted or the sentence structure in Spanish is awkward. I have been making a few observations as well that have yet to be addressed but since I read the column daily my observations may eventually surface.

Here are some forms that have either been accepted by the RAE or discussed in "el Diccionario panhispánico de dudas" over the last two weeks:

1/ un pack - meaning 'paquete' or 'lote'. Un "six pack" is used to refer to a six pack of beer.
2/ tóner- for the printer. Computer and technology terms continue to be a challenge in Spanish.
3/ Un ranquin- 'ranking'. the plural form is 'ránquines'. In sports many anglicisms are used instead of the true Spanish word. Some have been accepted by the RAE and others have not.

The challenge for the Spanish language continues and in all honesty 'me da mucha pena' because some of these anglicisms and 'anglicized forms' are debilitating the Spanish language into a sub-form. For those who are in pro of anglicisms and anglicized forms may believe it facilitates their understanding (for those who create or use anglicisms) of Spanish however, a language so rich like Spanish could certainly hold its own without borrowed 'hispanicized' words IMO.

I mentioned this section of el Nuevo Herald in the past. Their observations are great for those who are in any of the professional fields as they relate to language. The irony is they don't catch their own grammatical flaws.

PD- In my post #30 I should have written- anglo americanismo with reference to 'rufo' which is the correct term.


-LDG.

 

[arrozconcarne]

First off I have been trying 2 register onto this forum for quite some time..but until I discovered GMAIL was I only able to finally register...

Umm I believe that with time a language will greatly change and what was once thought of as a Neologism or an Anglicism will no longer be viewed as a foreign word..

Lider is clearly a translation of leader..but the phonetic values of that word were in fact borrowed Not the english spelling conventions

...Can Borrowing words from English or any other language harm the Spanish language?..
I dont believe so, it will only make Spanish a more expressable language
and if spanish is supposed to become a global language it will no longer be restricted to spanish speaking countries...as those affected countries will most likely create a hybrid language consisting of the native and the foreign...

something that has occured in the Dom.rep... But we do not speak a hybrid lang. we merely code switch..we start speaking in one lang, then instantly switch to the next and continue the process back and forth...

--Words borrowed from other languages such as French,Italian,portuguese and any other Romance lang.(languages derived from Latin)
shouldn't be considered foreign borrowings in Spanish..because they in fact all come from one language which is Latin


the word Fogo(portuguese) is Fuego(spanish) both came from Latin
as you can see the portuguese word is not stressed as where the spanish is .

 

[macocael]

I believe I was among the group that Chirimoya alluded to regarding the interchangeable use of exposición and exhibición. I am glad we have that one cleared up now, because it was puzzling me for a while.

It is sometimes hard to know when one is using an anglicism or in fact a legitimate Spanish word. The real difficulty is in determining whether a word with an English cognate is legitimately used in all the same contexts as that cognate would be. Ordenar for example, if I understand it correctly, is used in the sense of (a) organize or put in order; and (b) to order someone to do something. "Order" in English is used legitimately in both ways, but it is also used in the context of a restaurant -- one orders food. However, I gather that standard Spanish would use "pedir" in that situation. Yet, in DR it seems that everyone uses ordenar as well as pedir when it comes to ordering food.

 

[Chirimoya]

I believe I was among the group that Chirimoya alluded to regarding the interchangeable use of exposici?n and exhibici?n.

That's correct!

 

[nikke]

Coincidence

checkear = to check

I was just thinking of the word checkear, and I couldn't find it in the dictionary, but chequear was in there...Not sure of the origin.

 

[macocael]

Yeah they write Chekear here with a k because there is a kind of popular tradition of converting the standard "Q" to "K" to reflect one's criollo background I guess. So Quisqueya becomes Kiskeya, chequear becomes chekear, que lo que becomes k lo k, etc. It doesnt work that way every time -- querer is never kerer -- but there are plenty of instances of this.

 

[Paulino]

Jonron

It took me a while to realise that "jonron" actually equals "home run" but then I'm no baseball (or was that "beisbol"?) expert anyway... Hardly ever been to "el play" (meaning baseball field, not "game" as one might think).