North American Union
as you can see there is quite a bit of opposition to NAU, although common currency is quite likely.
- Thread starter bltkmt
- Start date
Cost of living in the DR - how much will we need?
North American Union
as you can see there is quite a bit of opposition to NAU, although common currency is quite likely.
cost of living....
I've read all the responses to the OP's thread. I just have a few questions and comments. Mind you, I do not live in the DR so please know that my comments are based only on visits to your country and based on research. One observation I can make based on experience from my travels is that the cost of many things is significantly cheaper there than they are here. I wonder where a lot of the posters on this thread lived previously. Was it a big city, a suburban area or a rural area? And, if it was a big city or suburban area, which one was it? The reason I ask is that everything that I have seen in the DR, from housing to food to transportation is significantly cheaper than where I live (Chicago). I am amazed that you can buy what looks like a decent house with 3 bedrooms and a pool for under $150K. That is unthinkable here, unless you move to a much less desirable neighborhood (aka something akin to a gang infested, high crime area) or a distant suburb without good schools, etc. Essentially, it costs at least $350K or more to buy a comparable house in a decent neighborhood here. On the issue of food, I ate at some trendy, touristy restaurants in the DR and even those offered meals at a much lower rate then you would find here in Chicago. These are just a few examples but other examples include the cost of a taxi/bus, cigarettes, flowers, coffee, and alcohol. In most of those cases, the cost was about 25-50% of what it would be here. So, I guess my main question is, am I missing something about the cost of living in the DR? I understand about the car insurance/health insurance issues and the fact that accidents can happen and can be very costly, but those things aside, it appears to me that the cost of living there is much cheaper than where I live. Please feel free to set me straight....that is why I am writing....to learn.
I've read all the responses to the OP's thread. I just have a few questions and comments. Mind you, I do not live in the DR so please know that my comments are based only on visits to your country and based on research. One observation I can make based on experience from my travels is that the cost of many things is significantly cheaper there than they are here. I wonder where a lot of the posters on this thread lived previously. Was it a big city, a suburban area or a rural area? And, if it was a big city or suburban area, which one was it? The reason I ask is that everything that I have seen in the DR, from housing to food to transportation is significantly cheaper than where I live (Chicago). I am amazed that you can buy what looks like a decent house with 3 bedrooms and a pool for under $150K. That is unthinkable here, unless you move to a much less desirable neighborhood (aka something akin to a gang infested, high crime area) or a distant suburb without good schools, etc. Essentially, it costs at least $350K or more to buy a comparable house in a decent neighborhood here. On the issue of food, I ate at some trendy, touristy restaurants in the DR and even those offered meals at a much lower rate then you would find here in Chicago. These are just a few examples but other examples include the cost of a taxi/bus, cigarettes, flowers, coffee, and alcohol. In most of those cases, the cost was about 25-50% of what it would be here. So, I guess my main question is, am I missing something about the cost of living in the DR? I understand about the car insurance/health insurance issues and the fact that accidents can happen and can be very costly, but those things aside, it appears to me that the cost of living there is much cheaper than where I live. Please feel free to set me straight....that is why I am writing....to learn.
At the risk of attracting to my humble a...s another hurricane I`d compare Sosua with Manhattan where I have to spend several months a year.
Cars - much cheaper in NY (difference in thousands of $$)
Car insurance. It is not just cheaper in NY, in DR it simply does not exist. An insurance that would guaranteed cover yourself, your money, your liability and your health in case of something serious and bad. My Allstate has no comparison in DR.
Food. Lunch in hundreds of Deli`s even in expensive midtown NYC cost much less than lunch in the most restaurants in Sosua. And quality and variety of food in those deli`s cannot be compared to Sosua restaurants (exceptions are Pierre Giorgio and Waterfront but good lunch there will cost $40- $50, Manhattan deli or brunch in restaurants $10-$12 (including wine), $20 - all-inclusive business lunch for executives on Second Ave.
Food prices in Stop-and-Shop, Food Imporium, Price-Rite are much lower than in Playero. And quality of food - much higher and fresher. Not even to mention Costco and Sam`s Club.
Beer - cheaper in NY.
Taxi. 4 km from Puerto Plata Aeropuerto to Sosua - $25. 4 km in NYC - $8-$10.
Legal assistance. Much more expensive in Sosua. Notarize a document - $60. In NYC - $2. Pre-paid legal service in NY - $20/month. In DR does not even exist.
Gasoline. Much more expensive in DR.
Health. If you need some real serious hig-tech medical help, in DR you will find it only in two big cities. And it will cost you HUGE, because in DR you do not have your Blue Cross/Blue Shield or Aethna.
High speed Internet at home. Much cheaper in NY.
Laptops, TV`s, other high -end consumer electronics - much cheaper in NY.
Household electic/electronic igoods. Much cheaper and of much better quality in NY.
Corruption. In DR on every step and will cost you alot.
To sell a house. In NY - 2%Foxton, in DR - 10% RE agent`s commission.
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Now, what is cheaper in DR.
Women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( If still available in NY at all.)
Housing. But unfortunatelly because of the people who do not compare Dominican prices to Dominican prices, but Dominican prices to American prices - currently RE prices skyrocketed beyond any reasonable understanding. The bubble wil blow like it did in the States.
In NY - billions of restrictions on people`s life like "NO PARKING", " NO STANDING", " NO ENTRY", "PRIVATE PROPERTY". "SPEED LIMIT" "NO U-TURN", etc,etc,etc... with thousands of cops waiting for you to overstep one of these "NO`s" to give you a ticket for hundreds of $$$.
In DR everything is reasonably allowed as long as it does not create problems for the society and for other people.
(Unfortunatelly even in DR we now see beginning of this restrictive american trend - parking meters in SD and Santiago!!)
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So, many people are reday to ask now after reading these lines- " If everything in DR is so bad and expensive, why you MF live here and do not want to go back to your "beautiful and cheap America??!!"
Before I even hear this natural question - here is the answer:
1.Because here I can put on my sleepers and swim in the ocean in three minutes when I want it. Without having to drive 45 minutes to Robert Moses and to rub elbows with multimillionish crowd. And I love to swim for several hours a day. Six-seven miles in total at least.
2. Because I hate to have my every move to be watched by thousands of specially paid people , be them uniformed or undercover.
3. Because I like to be able to talk in the street to any girl that I like. Without fear of being arrested for alleged sexual harrasment or in a sting operation.
For these three privileges I can afford and want to to pay a premium - on average about $1000- $1500US a month more than my life would cost me in NYC.
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I hope I answered your questions. And I hope that other people won`t be angry at me too much if their opinion and values and perceptions differ from mine.
Depending in which area in the Dr you live you may have more people in uniform and undercover watching you, and it is good like that. i have at the beach right in front of my homedoor 1 Marine on the left and 1 Marine on the right end, and i would not say that i feel bad about that fact, because i can go for a swim day and night and leave my frontdoor open without the fear that somebody even thinks about coming close to the house.
in a prior post AK claims to be here since the 'German run' in sosua/north, that's ben over a decade ago now, so if he has that much time here on the island he should not need to ask about 'do i have to pay taxes on this and that', a resident of over an decade should exactly know what he has to pay and what not.
i receive gov pension myself, it is taxed in europe, no additional tax needs to be paid over here in the DR on the same money.
i can not comment on prices for food and such in Sosua, because my last visit to the north coast been around 8 years back, but here in punta cana prices are much cheaper than in the prior post mentioned for the north, and i thought punta cana is a expensive spot. i get at a beach restaurant in the area a seafood lunch for 20-30.-US$ per person, never been in NYCity, but i don't think you get real fresh seafood there for something close to that price. Gas is in germany still more expensive than over here, even coming very close now. a great steak including the add plates costs me here $15.- - $20.-, in germany i would pay at least the same, but euros, so min 50% more expensive, and i compare punta cana rate to the German countryside where i am born, the cities are of course more expensive. compared to my homecountry punta cana is in many things cheaper than my home-countryside. it wasn't in the first time here, because you have to know about the area and know about the good restaurants with the best food for the great rates. once you get in the little community you find the stuff for the right rates, i would assume it is very similar on the north coast, i assume, this i don't know.
so if AKA says 1Mill US$$$ is far not enough for a retirement here, how many mill's you brought in?? did you pay taxes on the money?? how did you invest your mill's?? those are the questions on this thread and they are still waiting for answers. i can't answer them because i don't have mill's in US$, mine are just in pesos and i still run my business for a living.
Mike
in a prior post AK claims to be here since the 'German run' in sosua/north, that's ben over a decade ago now, so if he has that much time here on the island he should not need to ask about 'do i have to pay taxes on this and that', a resident of over an decade should exactly know what he has to pay and what not.
i receive gov pension myself, it is taxed in europe, no additional tax needs to be paid over here in the DR on the same money.
i can not comment on prices for food and such in Sosua, because my last visit to the north coast been around 8 years back, but here in punta cana prices are much cheaper than in the prior post mentioned for the north, and i thought punta cana is a expensive spot. i get at a beach restaurant in the area a seafood lunch for 20-30.-US$ per person, never been in NYCity, but i don't think you get real fresh seafood there for something close to that price. Gas is in germany still more expensive than over here, even coming very close now. a great steak including the add plates costs me here $15.- - $20.-, in germany i would pay at least the same, but euros, so min 50% more expensive, and i compare punta cana rate to the German countryside where i am born, the cities are of course more expensive. compared to my homecountry punta cana is in many things cheaper than my home-countryside. it wasn't in the first time here, because you have to know about the area and know about the good restaurants with the best food for the great rates. once you get in the little community you find the stuff for the right rates, i would assume it is very similar on the north coast, i assume, this i don't know.
so if AKA says 1Mill US$$$ is far not enough for a retirement here, how many mill's you brought in?? did you pay taxes on the money?? how did you invest your mill's?? those are the questions on this thread and they are still waiting for answers. i can't answer them because i don't have mill's in US$, mine are just in pesos and i still run my business for a living.
Mike
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any other thoughts on cost of living?
I'd like to hear from some more people as I'm finding it hard to believe that the DR is more expensive than NYC. I've been to the big apple numerous times and have eaten at all types of places, and it was always equal to or more expensive than Chicago. I'd be especially curious to hear from more people that have lived in large cities like Chicago to see what their perspective is. I am very curious as we are considering a move to the DR at some point in our lives, and part of the reason is cost of living which is very high here in Chicago. Maybe I should give some examples of cost here: 1 bedroom apartment, renovated, with A/C and parking in a decent neighborhood (read: NOT downtown, not in a trendy part of town)-$950, pack of smokes, $8-9, pint of "good" (read: microbrew or imported) beer at a local pub: $4-5, non-fancy dinner at said pub (grilled cheese sandwich with fries): $10-15, gallon of gas: $4.50-5.00, minimum parking ticket: $50, grocery bill for two that lasts 2-3 weeks: $300, cleaning person for a 1200 sq. ft. apartment: $70 (she does not cook or do laundry....just cleans for approx. 3 hours), car insurance average for one month: $90, membership at the local YMCA for two: $70, massage (one hour): $60-80, manicure: $10-20 dollars, movie ticket: $10, nice dinner out (steak/seafood at a restaurant in a "trendy" neighborhood) $40 per person. Oh, and now Chicago has the highest sales tax in the country at 10%! Ouch. I think I've covered a lot of basic living expenses. If people are still reading this thread, I'd really like to hear more opinions on this topic. Thanks!
I'd like to hear from some more people as I'm finding it hard to believe that the DR is more expensive than NYC. I've been to the big apple numerous times and have eaten at all types of places, and it was always equal to or more expensive than Chicago. I'd be especially curious to hear from more people that have lived in large cities like Chicago to see what their perspective is. I am very curious as we are considering a move to the DR at some point in our lives, and part of the reason is cost of living which is very high here in Chicago. Maybe I should give some examples of cost here: 1 bedroom apartment, renovated, with A/C and parking in a decent neighborhood (read: NOT downtown, not in a trendy part of town)-$950, pack of smokes, $8-9, pint of "good" (read: microbrew or imported) beer at a local pub: $4-5, non-fancy dinner at said pub (grilled cheese sandwich with fries): $10-15, gallon of gas: $4.50-5.00, minimum parking ticket: $50, grocery bill for two that lasts 2-3 weeks: $300, cleaning person for a 1200 sq. ft. apartment: $70 (she does not cook or do laundry....just cleans for approx. 3 hours), car insurance average for one month: $90, membership at the local YMCA for two: $70, massage (one hour): $60-80, manicure: $10-20 dollars, movie ticket: $10, nice dinner out (steak/seafood at a restaurant in a "trendy" neighborhood) $40 per person. Oh, and now Chicago has the highest sales tax in the country at 10%! Ouch. I think I've covered a lot of basic living expenses. If people are still reading this thread, I'd really like to hear more opinions on this topic. Thanks!
i can not speak for the whole island, but for the punta cana area which is known as one of the more expensive spots in the DR:
* renting: half of your mentioned rent
* smokes: $3.-
* beer at local bars: $2.- - $3.-, $4.- at the extra fency spots
* mentioned light dinner: 25-30% less
* gallon of Gas: actually $6.-
* parking ticket: non existent
* grocery bill: 50%
* reliable cleaning person for the above mentioned job: for $150.- a month you get a full time cleaning person doing also the laundry aso
* car insurance: depned a lot on model/year aso of the vehicle
* YMCA: don't know about that
* massage: $25.- per hour
* manicure: $15.-
* movie ticket: $6.- - $7.-
* good seafodd aso dinner at nice spot: $40.- or less
* Taxes are included in the rates i mentioned above
like i wrote,
those are punta cana rates, not valid for the whole island.
rates are valid at average spots where most residents usually hang out, no cheap spots and not the most fancy ones neither, just an average.
if you buy a beer at the extra expensive spots you pay a max of $4.- - $5.- for a bottle and a max of $5.- - $6.- for a box of cigarettes.
Mike
* renting: half of your mentioned rent
* smokes: $3.-
* beer at local bars: $2.- - $3.-, $4.- at the extra fency spots
* mentioned light dinner: 25-30% less
* gallon of Gas: actually $6.-
* parking ticket: non existent
* grocery bill: 50%
* reliable cleaning person for the above mentioned job: for $150.- a month you get a full time cleaning person doing also the laundry aso
* car insurance: depned a lot on model/year aso of the vehicle
* YMCA: don't know about that
* massage: $25.- per hour
* manicure: $15.-
* movie ticket: $6.- - $7.-
* good seafodd aso dinner at nice spot: $40.- or less
* Taxes are included in the rates i mentioned above
like i wrote,
those are punta cana rates, not valid for the whole island.
rates are valid at average spots where most residents usually hang out, no cheap spots and not the most fancy ones neither, just an average.
if you buy a beer at the extra expensive spots you pay a max of $4.- - $5.- for a bottle and a max of $5.- - $6.- for a box of cigarettes.
Mike
I have a home in Pittsburgh, an inexpensive US city, and a home in Sosua. My husband spends most his time in the US. I am in Sosua most of the time. We live basically the same lifestyles in both places. My budget in the DR for everything, including a full time maid and gardener, food, gas, utilities, restaurants, etc. is $2,000 USD a month. And I often have money left over at the end of the month.
My husband spends about three times that in the US. As we live in the city, parking alone for him is $265.00 USD a month. The US cleaning lady works 2 hours a week for the same pay my full time DR maid earns. In the US, we don't have house, a pool and beautiful grounds. We have a small condo which we bought for about the same price we paid for our DR villa.
And in the US, we never have time. In the DR, time if of abundance.
Priceless.
Lindsey
My husband spends about three times that in the US. As we live in the city, parking alone for him is $265.00 USD a month. The US cleaning lady works 2 hours a week for the same pay my full time DR maid earns. In the US, we don't have house, a pool and beautiful grounds. We have a small condo which we bought for about the same price we paid for our DR villa.
And in the US, we never have time. In the DR, time if of abundance.
Priceless.
Lindsey
that's been more or les my point Lindsay,
for the same expectations/stuff, it is not more expensive, it is over all cheaper over here, in sosua the same than punta cana, even when rates between the different areas of course vary, they also vary between different areas at home.
Mike
for the same expectations/stuff, it is not more expensive, it is over all cheaper over here, in sosua the same than punta cana, even when rates between the different areas of course vary, they also vary between different areas at home.
Mike
I have a family in Sosua and I also work an live alone in Manhattan. New York and Sosua are apples and oranges - you can't compare them.
I can say with certainty that with a house (or condo), 2 kids in Garden kids school, 2 cars, health insurance and normal eating and recreational habits (nothing fancy), it averages about $50,000 per year. I could say 40, but then there always seems to be some extra calamity.
However, the same in the NY metro area would be at least 100K. - D
I can say with certainty that with a house (or condo), 2 kids in Garden kids school, 2 cars, health insurance and normal eating and recreational habits (nothing fancy), it averages about $50,000 per year. I could say 40, but then there always seems to be some extra calamity.
However, the same in the NY metro area would be at least 100K. - D
"it averages about $50,000 per year"
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Exactly!
$50 000 X 30 years = $1 500 000 US. Assuming that people will live 30 years in retirement and during this time do not have neither auto accident, nor major illness, nor frivolious litigation against them, nor natural disaster. Just to live. One mil and a half $US.
Just a normal average life. (nothing fancy),
During this time money will be invested in reliable US CDs at 5%, that hopefully will be enough to beat growing prices and the inflation and to keep the person`s purchasing power.
No matter how we calculate - one mil and a half $US is a reasonable amount NOW to retire responsibly and safely to a coastal DR for a "nothing fancy" life.
$50,000 a year would be the annual interest on 1 mil, not 1.5, and anyone who put that kind of money exclusively in low-interest accounts like CDs would need to have his head examined. Ever heard of a PORTFOLIO? A variety of investments with varying degrees of risk/reward could generate the same amount from far less.
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thanks....
I appreciate everyone's perspective. I thought for a second there that I was imagining something! I do know that the DR presents new and interesting challenges, but at this point in my life, I'm willing to make the sacrifice for peace of mind, relaxation, a calmer way of life and a cheaper cost of living. I look forward to my next visit in November and maybe to being a DR resident sometime in the not too far future. Thanks again for all the info!
I appreciate everyone's perspective. I thought for a second there that I was imagining something! I do know that the DR presents new and interesting challenges, but at this point in my life, I'm willing to make the sacrifice for peace of mind, relaxation, a calmer way of life and a cheaper cost of living. I look forward to my next visit in November and maybe to being a DR resident sometime in the not too far future. Thanks again for all the info!
Exactly and getting back to the OP's question:
Yes of course if you know how to invest. I would suggest a portfolio spread across different markets, different risk levels etc, based in different countries, hedged of course. I would not suggest bringing US$1-2 million liquid assets to the DR, I wouldn't even suggest mentioning that size of a sum out loud in the DR
. I have lived in the DR nearly 16 years and apart from the first few years when I initially worked for other people & later ran a very small business, the bulk of that time has been spent living off interest generated by investments with a pension as backup. I have never had US$1 million invested in liquid assets in the DR alone, nor would I and certainly not now. I invest in liquid assets here enough to produce interest sufficient to pay my monthly bills. The rest is spread - by type, location, speed of access, different currencies & different risk levels. One of the reasons I keep what I have here in DR to a minimum is because there are very few secrets in the DR. Conspicuous wealth is bad news for all sorts of reasons. I don't want to take the thread off topic but I hope this gives the OP some pointers. If they are still around. Are you still around, OP?
What a big sum... but you have to be so careful on how you're gonna spend them.
A friend of mine came in DR in the 90' with a sum of money of that entity. In few months his money were half... of course he had all sorts of fun, he build two villas and other expenses. But this is just to say that is possible to spend any size of money if you don't pay real attention on it.
...about my friend... he changed "style of life" and began to work indipendently with a own business ... and married with a Domenican ...
A friend of mine came in DR in the 90' with a sum of money of that entity. In few months his money were half... of course he had all sorts of fun, he build two villas and other expenses. But this is just to say that is possible to spend any size of money if you don't pay real attention on it.
...about my friend... he changed "style of life" and began to work indipendently with a own business ... and married with a Domenican ...
Here's a different perspective on the whole thing:
How to retire on $12,000 a year - Retirement Insight - Sympatico / MSN Finance
Robin
How to retire on $12,000 a year - Retirement Insight - Sympatico / MSN Finance
Robin
interesting calculation,
and shows of course at least basics on which some people could build up.
m.met,
yes, a big sum,
much bigger than anything i had my own in this life, yet.
and i would assume thta somebody who brought together values worth of 1-2 Mill$$$ in his life will not be a stupid and put all his lifetime earnings in just one thing/risky fund aso. of course there are also exceptions, people who lived a high level life and once hit a island and the relaxation of the very different life after decades of work some run out of their own control, don't care anymore about all what they did all their life long, but exeptions exist of course, so some may make a couple mill $$$ in their life and burn them in a year or less on the island.
but the bigger crowd of people who made that amount of money have their mind "well educated/sane/calm and calculating", so they will know what to do and how to spread it out on risk free investments for not to loose it that way.
if somebody carefully invest 1-2 Mill$$$, here and out of the country, the benefits will be much more than needed for a comfortable life in the DR.
how much for individual persons??
than higher the standard of life they lived til now at their country, than higher the sum of money they have for their retirement invest, and so than higher will be the standard of life they can live over here.
and throu all those different levels of lifestyle as a fact here in the DR you can live your lifestyle for even less money than you spent for the same lifestyle in the US or the UK or Germany aso.
and i think that's been basically the main question of the OP on this thread.
this planet does not offer many spots effordable for a retirement like the DR does, and compared to most the DR is very clear and stable in case of laws/government aso.
let's enjoy life on the Island
Mike
and shows of course at least basics on which some people could build up.
m.met,
yes, a big sum,
much bigger than anything i had my own in this life, yet.
and i would assume thta somebody who brought together values worth of 1-2 Mill$$$ in his life will not be a stupid and put all his lifetime earnings in just one thing/risky fund aso. of course there are also exceptions, people who lived a high level life and once hit a island and the relaxation of the very different life after decades of work some run out of their own control, don't care anymore about all what they did all their life long, but exeptions exist of course, so some may make a couple mill $$$ in their life and burn them in a year or less on the island.
but the bigger crowd of people who made that amount of money have their mind "well educated/sane/calm and calculating", so they will know what to do and how to spread it out on risk free investments for not to loose it that way.
if somebody carefully invest 1-2 Mill$$$, here and out of the country, the benefits will be much more than needed for a comfortable life in the DR.
how much for individual persons??
than higher the standard of life they lived til now at their country, than higher the sum of money they have for their retirement invest, and so than higher will be the standard of life they can live over here.
and throu all those different levels of lifestyle as a fact here in the DR you can live your lifestyle for even less money than you spent for the same lifestyle in the US or the UK or Germany aso.
and i think that's been basically the main question of the OP on this thread.
this planet does not offer many spots effordable for a retirement like the DR does, and compared to most the DR is very clear and stable in case of laws/government aso.
let's enjoy life on the Island
Mike
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OP back, and I apologize for the absence. I had not received any email notifications and figured my thread had died...was not aware of the lively debate going on for my behalf. Again, thanks for the thoughtful input!
It sounds like my dream still "has legs"...the hurdle is to get the finances in order over the next few years. I am (as I imagine many of you were) just tired of the treadmill aspect of US life...constantly working my butt off to maintain a certain lifestyle, but never really having the time to enjoy said lifestyle. I would like to simply "exist and enjoy" for awhile, with my wife. It appears that $50k per year (after taxes, right?) can get me a pretty decent lifestyle on the island without needing to work. This would include renting a decent house/condo, transportation, food (including eating out sometimes), utilities, maybe one trip to US per year, etc?
Again, I appreciate that you all have taken the time to post...I love having something to dream about.
It sounds like my dream still "has legs"...the hurdle is to get the finances in order over the next few years. I am (as I imagine many of you were) just tired of the treadmill aspect of US life...constantly working my butt off to maintain a certain lifestyle, but never really having the time to enjoy said lifestyle. I would like to simply "exist and enjoy" for awhile, with my wife. It appears that $50k per year (after taxes, right?) can get me a pretty decent lifestyle on the island without needing to work. This would include renting a decent house/condo, transportation, food (including eating out sometimes), utilities, maybe one trip to US per year, etc?
Again, I appreciate that you all have taken the time to post...I love having something to dream about.
yes,
50K per year/around 4K per month after tax is enough for that and leaves a yearly visit to the US included.
good luck
maybe we sip some beers togteher on some beach in a few years
Mike
50K per year/around 4K per month after tax is enough for that and leaves a yearly visit to the US included.
good luck
maybe we sip some beers togteher on some beach in a few years
Mike