Dolarlization of DR !?

[NALs]

Me anti-American?

Um, if I'm so anti-American, why did I came to the USA to get my masters in Economics? I could have gotten such thing in the DR, but I decided to get it in USA, why would any anti-American do such thing? I'm really wondering!

Oh, I'll tell you. It's not that I'm anti-American, but that any one that stands for his country (in this case the DR) when the foreigners stands for something else. It's easy to dismiss someone else as this or that when a person don't truly know where he is coming from. Tony C quoted a section of one of my post where I see a tumbling down of things that keep the DR independent. Interesting how what I said there is what happened in Hawaii. Very interesting. History has a habit of repeating if people don't learn from it. So, lets look at some Hawaiian history which many of you either don't know very well or just simply ignore for your benefit of the doubt.

Hawaii was an independent Polynesian style kingdom in the middle of the Pacific. The people there had a harmonious culture that blended Gods with nature. They were very isolated and as such developed a culture very unique to them. Unfortunately, the islands of Hawaii are among the most beautiful places on earth. The British notice that when Captain Cook landed on the island (the first Euro to "discover" Hawaii). Under the British the islands got exposed to europeanization, blah blah blah. We all know what followed based on all other places Europeans touched.

Well, by the mid-1800, this former colony and still agricultural named The United States was beginning to industrialize. By the end of the 17th Century (1800s) the United States was ready for a leap into super power (which the two WW and the post-depression era paved the way for that). But before such increase in powers, the U.S. still had the mentality of expansion. They took all of Northern Mexico (Modern day Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, Montana, Oregon, and Wyoming). The Americans bought Florida from the Spaniards, much of the mid-west and the gulf from the French, and by the end of that Century they had gained Puerto Rico, the Phillipines and Cuba after defeating the Spaniard in the Spanish American War. While those things were happening, there were many Americans roaming the seas to see what's out there and voila, they stumble upon Hawaii.

The Americans fell in love with Hawaii. Lush valleys, palm trees, perfect weather, mountains, beautiful people with easy women (having sex with Hawaiian women was seen as a welcome gift by the Hawaiian to the Euros), and a government (in this case Kingdom) that did little to limit Americans from settling in Hawaii (this sounds like the Dominican Republic, don't you think)! As some short time progressed, more and more American missionaries came to Hawaii. With time there were so many American expats in Hawaii, that the Americans constituted a small but strong minority in that kingdom. Many Americans gave suggestion for what the Kingdom should have done, but the King refused many times. However, the King of Hawaii did granted the Americans some of their wishes like the implementation of private property and the right for Americans and absentee to own property in Hawaii. As a consequence, much of the Agriculturally rich lands of Hawaii got in the hands of Americans, pushing many Hawaiians to become Landless peasants. Most of the fields were turned into Sugar plantations to meet US demand and Pineapple plantations.

By this time Americans had already infiltrated the Hawaiian government. For every 1 Hawaiian government official there was 1 American with strong support in the government. Most Americans (put attention to this part) wanted Hawaii to become a Commonwealth of the United States so that their agricultural output (Sugar and Pineapple) would not be subjected to Tariffs and instead would be subjected to quotas (in that time Sto. Dgo. and Cuba were producing much of the sugar needed for the U.S., both Country under U.S. Occupation). The King refused and misteriously the King was found dead in a Marsh Swamp today known as Waikiki Beach. He was found floating there with one shot in the head. Inmediately the Americans stormed the Palace in Honolulu and basically took control. The King sister wanted to continue Hawaiian rule over her Kingdom, but the Americans did not let her unless she becomes a puppet for them. She refused until she was forced at gunpoint to become the Queen and ratify a Hawaiian Constitution that gave tremendous powers to the Americans. The Queen proved to be too much of a trouble for the Americans who were still exporting Sugar to the U.S. and paying Tariffs. So, at gunpoint the Queen was forced to sign the bill that clearly ended the Kingdom of Hawaii's sovereignty and instead offered itself to the US. From that point forward, Hawaii and the US are practically inseperable.

Many Hawaiians were against the ending of their Kingdom, but with the strong American minority there was no way the Hawaiians could defend their countries. The Americans wanted Hawaii deep down inside of them, and Hawaii is what they got! Keep in mind that Hawaii is smaller than the DR! Under commonwealth status, a huge military base was created in Pearl Harbor and the American plantation owners could now import sugar and pineapple and not pay tariffs! Hawaiians always demanded for a vote for them to decide their fate. The Americans never gave them that chance, until in the 1950s when Americans outnumbered Hawaiians 2 to 1 and Hawaiians had become "Americanize", then Washington allow the "Hawaiians" to decide if they wanted to become a state or become independent. The "Hawaiians" decided statehood and Hawaii became the 50th state of the United States of America.

If anybody don't see such potential stuff (though not exactly as in Hawaii, but similarly) happening in Santo Domingo, then say it. But I'm very much aware at what the Americans are capable of doing and I'm willing to defend my country's sovereignity to the fullest way that I can. That is not being Anti-American (though today nobody can't express their feelings and belief with out being branded as one, and this comes from a country filled with people that pride themselves on freedom and democracy), but instead is looking for the best for my country's future. Fortalizing the Peso is a much better option than giving up and getting the Dollars.

The American government is currently being too nice by offering to "Help" the DR Dollarize. One thing I know about uncle Sam, is that he becomes very nice when he has something to gain from such deal. I'm worry what gains the U.S. might get from such Dollarization. The American government is being too nice, too nice indeed. If Dollarization should had happen, we should have done it when the Americans offered no help what so ever, but now is time to question that "nice" attitude from Uncle Sam.

 

[Tony C]

Um, if I'm so anti-American, why did I came to the USA to get my masters in Economics? I could have gotten such thing in the DR, but I decided to get it in USA, why would any anti-American do such thing? I'm really wondering!
.

What? You think your not the only anti-American Hipocrtite that sucks at the teet of the U.S.? You remind me alot of that other oppourtunist, Sgt. Mejia. He liked everything that Uncle Sam gave him but when it came to pay back he turned into a raving, anti-American coward.

BTW I see no connection what-so-ever between Hawaii and the Dollarization in the D.R.

 

[NALs]

My point for the Hawaii history is to show that a bit of control is all that a more powerful country needs to take full control of that is what it wants, but it will only happen if the ones being taken over realize that they failed. If the Hawaiians would have fought for their freedom, who knows, the Kingdom of Hawaii might still have existed. Put that in perspective to the DR, by giving up on our Constitutional guaranteed Peso currency, we are one step closer at giving up our independence. That is one small step, from that a tidal wave of "lets let the Americans do this or that for us" will certainly follow.

Also, I'm not anti-American. I just express my views and when ever my views don't go according with the general publics then I'm branded a Communist, an anti-American, and a bunch of stuff that would unlegitimize my point of view. But all I'm doing is expressing my point view here, don't take it too personal. Also, I do appreciate that the U.S. allowed me to go to the states to finish off my studies, but I must point out that the US is not paying for my education. That is coming from my hard earn work in the Dominican Republic! In case nobody gets it, I only thank the US the opportunity, but I really have nothing else to thank them for since everything else came out of my will and hard work!

 

[bienamor]

I don't know about you guys but I got all of my money out of the D.R. years ago for 2 reasons.
1. PRD was elected
2. The cost of living was higher in the D.R. than the US. My Standard of living at least. So you main axcuse against dollarization doesn't hold water.

BTW Of thread here but NaL They Confirmed the Sarin/Nerve Gas in Iraq! Bush was right! Don't give me any lame excuses like it was one piece that was over looked or it was planted by the US. One Drop is enough!
Also as a soverign nation the US is not under any legal control of the UN. The US's membership is purely voluntary. SO are any agreements. Doesn't matter anyway because the US invaded Iraq following a UN mandate.

Know that this is off the thread but for once lets all try not to blame the current adminstration in the good old USA for all current problems in IRAQ

OH, DID WE SAY THAT????


It is amazing how the facts are unimportant to so many, and how soon
they forget! (Read through to the bottom!)


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That
is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is
clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of
mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great
deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten
time since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb
18,1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with
the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass
destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl
Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct.
9,1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi
(D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies." > - Madeline Albright, Clinton
Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam
continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a
licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten
the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by
Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and
threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated
of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible
to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is
in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and
developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept.
27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd
(D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the
authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I
believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is
a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct.
9,2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working
aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons
within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always
underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of
mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy
his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has
refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda
members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will
continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare,
and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton
(D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that
Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity
for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob
Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
.. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
eal" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003


And it was 3 mandates from the UN that had been ignored

 

[MrMike]

Put that in perspective to the DR, by giving up on our Constitutional guaranteed Peso currency, we are one step closer at giving up our independence. That is one small step, from that a tidal wave of "lets let the Americans do this or that for us" will certainly follow.

What independance? Political independance? Only the 3 or 4 most powerful Dominicans have that anyway. Financial independance? You don't have that anyway.

Independance implies responsibility, as someone pointed out, the DR has proven that it cannot be trusted with a printing press. This is a self-inforcing sentence, since all the money they print just keeps losing value and it constantly takes more and more of it to buy any reasonably stable currency.

 

[NALs]

What independance? Political independance? Only the 3 or 4 most powerful Dominicans have that anyway. Financial independance? You don't have that anyway.

Independance implies responsibility, as someone pointed out, the DR has proven that it cannot be trusted with a printing press. This is a self-inforcing sentence, since all the money they print just keeps losing value and it constantly takes more and more of it to buy any reasonably stable currency.

So in your opinion, the DR should just give up its currency?

So that means that if I say that the US should just give up its global power because other people think the US can't be trusted by going into countries on a "pre-emptive" measure and ignoring international peace keeping organizations, if you agreed to that then you stand by your words of the DR giving up its currency and I will surrender in defending the Peso in this thread.

However, if you say that the US should not give up its power for whatever reason, then you understand how I feel when a foreigner tells me that my country needs to change this and that so solution A can happen! There is backup info. to backup any argument. The peso will stay!

And yes, I realize that our economic independence is on a shoe string connected to the U.S., and whatever political independence we got might be dessolved if that shoe string becomes a rope. Please, put your self in the position of the person you're addressing your ideas to. If it was your country and foreigners are constantly telling you how to do things, and you try to do as they say but nothing comes out of it, don't you think the person is going to stop listening to the foreigner? I think so. The Peso will stay!

 

[MrMike]

The DR is giving up it's currency a little bit at a time every day.

Everytime you check the exchange rate and your precious portraits of dead Dominicans is worth less in relation to the US Dollar (whisch is devaluating as well by the way) That is the DR giving up it's currency a little at a time.

The only question is whether the buying power of Dominican wage-slaves needs to shrink along with it. Since I am one of them, I say no.

 

[ltsnyder]

I'll admit I only skimmed the messages, but from what I read a major point was lost.

The problem with dollarization is simply this.

When the US decides to print more money to pay for bills, (and at times they do do this), currently only holders of US dollors suffer.

When an economy of a nation like DR is dollarized, they lose control of the ability to inject cash into the economy, also they can't control when the US does it.

Better to Euro-ize I say. European union has strict controls on when Euros can be printed, and generally I think it is only with almost full consent. If you dollarize, you'll be a victum of the wims of the current US government. If Bush decides he needs to print 1 Trillion dollars to pay for the War on Evil, well then remeber, you have no say on the devaluation of you Dominican Dollars. For a country that is out of control (I think equador did this, it makes sense), for the DR, I don't think so.

-Lee

 

[Texas Bill]

Snyder;
I truly wish you would quit uttering false statements as if they were true.
If and when the US government prints money, it is done to replace that currency which is worn out or by authorization through the issue of government bonds of a long term nature. Your allusion to Bush ordering the issuance of a trillion dollars is absolutely an incorrect, false and misleading statement.
You are destroying your credibility with your wild and falsly accusatory remarks.
You're allowing your emotions and your need to be right lead you into a dreamland, from which, if you aren't careful, will destroy your shaky standing.

Texas Bill

 

[jsizemore]

printing money

The US has controls in place. While yes the US has deficit spending the over all economy is stable. It doe snot get by with deficit spending without the consent of congress so by executiveorder it does not happen. The US ecomomy has its ups and downs just like anyplace else but overall it is a robust system that changes as it needs to.
As far as dollorization goes it pretty much is in effect already. Of the money that flows into the country from outside how much is dollars already. What percentage of cash into Western Union is from the US.
As far as Euros goes hey ok if the EU want to make the DR a pet project so be it. I would like to see that be sold to the Nationallist in Europe though.
John

 

[Texas Bill]

The discussion of the euro is moot.

It'll never happen because the DR is not part of the European Community! Not even the Bahamas, Caymans, Turks & Caicos (a British Crown Colony which is dollarized along with the others mentioned) can join.

My feeling is that this thread has come to a stalemate and has become a focal point for again hammering the US as have so many recently.

It's a sad day when a people will not accept the responsibility for their actions and continue to attempt to deflect blame for that lack onto a scapegoat which/who is only marginally associated with the problem.

Such is referred to as "fallacious reasoning" and is the worst "cop-out" of all.

Texas Bill

 

[NALs]

The discussion of the euro is moot.

It'll never happen because the DR is not part of the European Community! Not even the Bahamas, Caymans, Turks & Caicos (a British Crown Colony which is dollarized along with the others mentioned) can join.

Texas Bill

Um, what about Turkey?

Muslim, middle eastern, and arabic and it is expected to join the EU before the decade is over! The countries in the Caucasus (in Western Asia) are also looking to join the EU and the EU doesn't appear to shove those ideas aside! Come to think of it, if Turkey makes it then the DR might have chance. After all, the DR shares more culturally and historically with Europe (more so with the Iberian Peninsula) than Turkey does. Also, since Europe is looking to become a global superpower, the DR is the perfect spot to put a military in the Western Hemisphere. It's centric, close to their rival, and convenient. Plust the tropical weather and natural beauty as well as the Dominican adoration of European lifestyles is a plus. The EU might become more than just a Europe thing.

 

[jsizemore]

Eu

While I will agree that the EU is an economic power to rival the US. I feel that it will probably stay a political back seat in many respects. I feel this for two reasons. One is that the EU is about as united as the United Nations. Each country has its own agenda and only agrees for economic reasons. The second is the fact is for the most part the entire EU combined does not have a standing military large enough to be a global power.
As far as Rival the EU will not be a rival to the US. The EU needs the trade too much and also they can not unite for a common pourpose. You also need to remember if the EU includes the DR then they will have instant influx of around half the population of the DR as immigrants and most of the EU is to nationalistic to accept that willingly. Look at the problems of middle easterners in France and Briton.
All the EU countries have this complex about their own history that makes them afraid to use the military as a political tool. It reminds me of a recovering alcoholic that tries to preach to me about the sins of drinking when ever I drink my one or two beers a month" Not counting my trips to the DR"
In the end he who has the means to protect his wealth keeps his wealth. He who can keep his wealth has the nost stable currency.
The irony is that the largest standing army in the world is across the border from Canada and they have a very small but professional military and never seem threatened or nervous.
Just my humble uneducated opinion.
John

 

[NALs]

Good point Jsizemore. That's very true. My assumptions on Europe uniting politically and becoming a super power is based on how Germany united and the Netherlands united.

In Germany's case, it was composed of hundreds of small kingdoms and tribes. They all first united economically with people being able to move in and about that very first "free trade block" eventhough they did not called it that. In a matter of a few years, the population among those germanic states (states that were different from each other in more than one arena) eventually joined all of the other forces that made each small kingdom independent. Before anyone knew it, Prussia was born. Prussia was an economic power and military power that previously was nothing more than hundreds of small kingdoms that simply decided to unite economically. Prussia eventually was renamed Germany.

The same story occured (though with some differences) in the Netherlands, the same could be said of Italy (a country that still shows striking regional differences in speach patterns, customs, and living styles within a few miles), the same thing eventually happen in Spain (though it was through marriages of kings and queens more than anything else), etc.

If history proves to be right, the European Union is the predecessor to a new much more stronger country that will be in control of much of the European continent, parts of Asia, and if the DR goes into it, parts of the New World too. That's why I stated that if the DR gives up its currency and officially replaces it with the Dollar, eventually the DR will be swallowed up into the U.S.

So why would I like it better for the DR (if it has to join a bigger state) to join the EU rather than the US. Well, its pure historical. Our connection with the US came through force. In fact, prior to the first American invasion in the 1920s, the US was a small trading partner of the DR. The DR main trading partners was Germany followed by Spain and France. After the Americans invaded for the first time, the country was completely geared to the American market with American companies infiltrating the Dominican economy without tarrifs during the occupation. The European connection to the DR is much more legit, in my opinion, because it came out of the birth of the DR colonization and independence, rather than the reorganization of the country's economy to serve the American market.

 

[jsizemore]

I would hate to see either

Before the Civil War in the United States the cadets at West Point swore an oath of loyalty to their respective states. When the war broke out the Officers from the southern states resigned there commissions and joined the south. Americans were considered Virginians, Georgians or whatever. After the Civil War the Era of reconstruction happened and then a national identity replaced the state identity.
The DR is a beautiful land with lots of options if they could get the government to act right. I would hate to see the National identity replaced with a regional Identity. While I feel a short term fix of about a generation would be fixed with either Dollarization or Euroization I feel that some how the spice of the Dominicano life would suffer.
Loose your currency and you loose your Sovereignty. Loose your Sovereignty and you loose your identity. As far as the Unification of Germany in the historically it was by means of force implied or other wise.
The Reunification Between the East and West was a smart move that meant that when everything was said and done Germany was a power house in its own right. It took one generation for Germany to recover from the economic blow the absorption of the economically ravaged east had however it was a stabilizing decision that was the smartest thing to do. Not only was it the right thing nationalist wise but the greater Germany told the world we are in charge of our own house. I respect that and applaud that. Now 15 years later look at it. Chrysler corporation is a German corporation. Also as far as Germany goes if they had not reunited and taken the lead as an economic power the EU would have never happened. Germany was on the edge of history about to become the big dog of the old world and this was a way for France to hitch a ride without working for it.
In the information Age in free societies such as Europe and the US wars don't happen between them. The average European citizen does not feel threatened by the US nor should they. For that reason they will not stand for a large portion of the GNP going to a military to counter the US military. Also they have this fear of antagonizing the CIS countries so they will do the Neville Chamberland routine when it comes to NATO expansion and EU expansion. The US on the other hand does not trust anyone to ever look out for there best interest and the last three years has shown that. And the sad part is there is such and economic stake in what happens in Europe that the US will always come to the aid of them. " Yugoslavia comes to mind".
Another thing that drives the American Political desire for a large military is the last time the Continental US was occupied by any forces was the war of 1812 when the English burned Washington DC. The Allution Islands were attacked and invaded in WW2 by the Japanese but it was short lived and no civilians were really threatened and this fact drives the US to keep a large Army. The US will always have a large military.
If I were to give up my currency I would rather give it up to the people with the biggest stick to help protect it than to the ones that just have the ideas. With one million Dominicanos living in the United States and Dominicanos serving in the US military I feel the recent history makes the bond closer to the US for the DR the Europe.
Just my humble Opinion.
John
P.S. As far as Turkey goes it has been in Nato and they already have a relationship going. As far as the caucuses go that is a way of slowly pushing the CIS out of control and fillign the power Vacume left by the Collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

[Texas Bill]

Um, what about Turkey?

Muslim, middle eastern, and arabic and it is expected to join the EU before the decade is over! The countries in the Caucasus (in Western Asia) are also looking to join the EU and the EU doesn't appear to shove those ideas aside! Come to think of it, if Turkey makes it then the DR might have chance. After all, the DR shares more culturally and historically with Europe (more so with the Iberian Peninsula) than Turkey does. Also, since Europe is looking to become a global superpower, the DR is the perfect spot to put a military in the Western Hemisphere. It's centric, close to their rival, and convenient. Plust the tropical weather and natural beauty as well as the Dominican adoration of European lifestyles is a plus. The EU might become more than just a Europe thing.

Turkey, as a member of NATO has essentially been a part of the present day European Community from day one. They may be essentially Muslim, geographically part of the Middle East, but they have been tied to Europe since the end of WWII.
Again, I don't see application of any of the Carribbean Basin countries being accepted or entertained.
I really consider your suggestion as being wistful thinking and without substance.

Texas Bill

edited to add:

It should be noted also that the Caymans, The Bahamas, The Turks & Caicos and many other Islan communities have the US$ as their standard currency, yet are NOT a part of the US. As a result, and where their respective governments exercise a modicum of fiscal discipline, they enjoy a reasonably stable economy. not-with-standing that their MAJOR governmental income is derived from import duties, making goods cost an average of 30-35% more after transportation charges are added.
And they don't seem to have lost any soverignty in the matter.

Texas Bill

 

[NALs]

Turkey, as a member of NATO has essentially been a part of the present day European Community from day one. They may be essentially Muslim, geographically part of the Middle East, but they have been tied to Europe since the end of WWII.

I really consider your suggestion as being wistful thinking and without substance.

Texas Bill

edited to add:

The Bahamas, have the US$ as their standard currency, yet are NOT a part of the US.

not-with-standing that their MAJOR governmental income is derived from import duties, making goods cost an average of 30-35% more after transportation charges are added.

And they don't seem to have lost any soverignty in the matter.

Texas Bill

I'll respond to each quoted sentence(s) from above from TB comments in the order they appear.

1. How long has it been since WWII? Lets see, roughly 60-something?
For how long have the Dominican Republic been desired and practically fought over by European powers? Roughly 329 years.

Turkey has been connected to Europe for 60-something years and the DR has been for 329 years with low interest after 1821 due to Haitian invasions (Euros learned from what they did to the french) and then American intervention, despite Spain taking control of the island again in the late 1800s. It appears that the DR has been connected to Europe for much longer than Turkey has.

2. I enjoy discussing with you and many other DR1ers many aspect of Dominican culture present and future, etc. But please, your post tend to ignite emotions when they are made on a personal level. I personally don't care if you think that my ideas are wishful thinking or anything, I would appreciate it if you (and others) would just present your facts, back them up and then round it out with a small conclusion of why what you say will work better than what I say. This is because I've noticed that TB don't like it wnen people mix emotions in their post, but he is provoking some. Look at Jsizemore's post, it was directed at what I said but it was not on a personal level.

3. I think the Bahamas has the Bahamian Dollar. Unless they switched recently I haven't been updated, but I think that the Bahamian Dollar is their currency. Their currency is peg at US$1 for BD$1.

4. Those states that you mentioned are members of the British Crown Commonwealth. They receive aid that they don't have to pay back to Britain if they ask for them. Also, these tiny islands have a population of a few thousands with a few square miles of land, almost postage stamps. How can the DR only survive on import duties ( I know you did not say that, but it gives the impression that you are comparing their ability to survive with import duties but there are different needs in the DR than in those smaller islands). In addition to that, transportation costs will be greater in the DR for imported goods because there is more gas to be used. It takes more energy and gasoline to ship something from Miami on a ship to SDQ and then mount it on a trailer and speed it all the way to where ever it needs to go, probably the city or Santiago. It's not like shipping something to the Turks and Caicos where they arrive a few miles away from their final destination.

5. They haven't lost their sovereignity because they hardly have anything to attract enough Americans to their shores, enough to influence the local mentallity of things. The DR has what, the deepest and some of the most fertile top soil on earth? It has a manufacturing base that could prove to be much more profitable? It has 1,800 kms of coastline with huge potential for further tourism? Plus all the natural resources that have still not been taped! And much more. It's kind of like questioning why the island of St. Barthelemy (St. Barts for short) is part of France as a territory but Martinique and Guadaloupe are part of France as a Department (their version of states)! It's just obvious!

 

[Tony C]

Nal

Jeez dude. have you ever looked at a map?
The Part of Turkey that contains the capital(Istanbul) in IN EUROPE!!!!!!! Turkey is a European Country.
No explain to me again how the Natives of hawaii were better off before the U.S. Arrived and how that in any way is conected to the D.R.'s problems?

 

[jsizemore]

two words

Monroe Doctrin
John

 

[jsizemore]

Iraq

In a previous post the mention of the leagality of the Invasion of Iraq was brought up. Cease Fire negotiated and agreed to. War not stopped only cesation of combat. Cease fire broken. Combat resumes. End of argument.

All other debates and request for resolutions were to give some Viagra to the Impotant UN.

RIP UN.
John