Dolarlization of DR !?

[Texas Bill]

I know what your point is! You are trying to say that no body is willing to pick up a poor country! No body wants poor people and nobody wants to take care of poor people, especially rich europeans. That is what you tried to say? Isn't?

However, you wrote it in a way that wanted a personal response. What would I prefer, so I told you what I would prefer. If you would have said something like "put your self in Europe's position" or think of your self as being a european country or America and think about the question you asked, then I would have responded the way you wanted me to respond. But, I don't like to assume too much, so I responded exactly what your questions asked.

Sorry you missed the points of my post.
Go back and re-read them, please.
In my own inept way, I was trying to show you just exactly what a foreign visitor would see and you come back with typical verbage giving rationalized reasons for not admitting the facts.
Come on, partner, get your head out of the defensive mode and face reality.
You can't make your point by evading the issues and throwing up smokescreens in responses.
We're NOT attacking the DR with our posts, but rather trying to show you how others, not familiar with the DR, see it as a visitor.

Texas Bill

 

[ltsnyder]

TBill, be careful, you reveal more about your self than others . . .

Have you ever asked yourself why so many tourists from Europe stay in their all inclusive compounds so much? It isn't that they are snooty--They're overwhelmed by culture shock after taking that initial "ride in the country" trip when they first arrive. They see, what to them, is abject squallor, poverty and substandard existance in the population and in the country. A few see through all this to the people themselves, but not many. Of the latter, many return year after year; of the former, they can't get out of the country fast enough.
I'm NOT trying to denigrate the DR, but to be realistic and see things the way many of the tourists from the EU will and do see the DR. That's but one of the reasons why I think the DR should NOT entertain such a merger, economically, with the EU. And I think it is a disservice to foster such a venture.

And TBill did you ever bother to talk to a Euorpean in the DR? Try it, you might learn something about them. Contrary to you slanderous belief, there are more Europeans operating small businesses in the DR that there are good old americans, so please post a correction. Don't be dumb and continue that thread of thought, you'll lose in the end, trust me.

As far as not being able to join the EU, becuase the DR is not part of Europe, I think that is splitting hairs. The whole idea of the EU is to create a more perfect union, any country that does extensive trade with the EU would benifit from this merger, and expidiency is the mother of change, if it makes sense, people (i.e. that EU and DR, will do it).

It really makes sense, The EU is the first nations state of sorts that had made rules about how to join a common monitary system. This kind of advanced thinking will eventually lead to an expanded EU, barring the effect of pre-emptive wars and occupations by the US. I think you will find the EU the dominate financial structure of a larger and larger part of the world.

I'm not saying they are a economic power house or the lead military state. I mean the US has millitary arms to conqure any part of the world (not occupy, but at least distroy the region). So no doubt when it comes to the capability for domination by force of gun and coersion, the US wins hands down. But what the EU offers is something intellectual, a financial structure that will benifit all members who join it (with some bumps and lumps). I'm glad they are trying this, for I see this as the future of the world, a common monitary system, with oter common governmental extensions in common joined through common desire to become wealthier.

Edited to add: I it true that the US is the DRs primary trading partner, but the EU is a close 2nd I believe, and if Canada ever joins the EU then I am sure the DR will also.

-Lee

 

[NALs]

I it true that the US is the DRs primary trading partner, but the EU is a close 2nd I believe, and if Canada ever joins the EU then I am sure the DR will also.

-Lee

Not just the DR, but then Argentina would follow with their Italian connections (most are of that origin), then why not Uruguay, Chile, Venezuela, Panama, Heck, maybe even post-Castro Cuba. The fact that all these places were part of Europe at one point in time as colonies, couple that with huge natural wealth potential and a population that admires and tries to hold up European values is a big plus! Also, I'm sure many Euros would appreciate vacationing in the Chilean Andies, Having a vacation home in Punta Cana and eating steak in the Palermo district of Buenos Aires without having to worry about a passport, foreign exchange, or intrusive feeling since it will all be under one big umbrella. I don't think the U.S. will ever join the EU unless its force to, but if the US ends up joining (Many Americans define their country as a European country outside of Europe by the way), then the EU will be the next world order. It might be too early to tell, but sooner or later we will eventually know the truth.

 

[KrackedKris]

but if the US ends up joining (Many Americans define their country as a European country outside of Europe by the way), then the EU will be the next world order. It might be too early to tell, but sooner or later we will eventually know the truth.

Like what "Many Americans" are you talking about?

Not in your lifetime will you find out

Narwhal, have you evr made a post regarding ANYTHING without an Anti US slant??

 

[NALs]

Like what "Many Americans" are you talking about?

Not in your lifetime will you find out

Narwhal, have you evr made a post regarding ANYTHING without an Anti US slant??

What is so anti-American about my last post?

And yes, I have been in many conversations with Americans in their own country (especially when its a conversation regarding illegal Aliens and the "opening of the border" topic), many Americans have told me in my face (some straight out and other in much more subtle ways) that the United States is a European country. Believe me, I was shocked when I first heard this considering all the Anti-Europe things many Americans on DR1 put forth on my suppose Anti-American pro Europe posts.

Then after that, I notice lots of other things that seem to suggest America and Europe as one. When people talk of the West, they are talking of Western Europe and the US. Not Australia, not South Africa, Not Russia, Not Latin America, but Europe and the US. Western culture is that of Western Europe and the US.

These are things that come up day in and day out from American programming. You see it best displayed during talks or discussions of immigration and the so called melting pot. Many ( a surprising many for me) give the impression that Europe and the US are one thing divided by the so called "Pond" (Atlantic Ocean). Many times it is refered to as the Pond, as if to kind of shorten the length between Europe and America across the Atlantic. Just makes me wonder if such mentality could lead to joining the EU.

People on this board have it fixed in their heads that I'm anti-American!! Unbelievable!! I don't have a problem with the US, I'm not completely happy with their way of looking and treating at the world (I'm referring to the US government here), but the American people are nice people. Many (though I'm questioning if those of DR1 are these types) are a real pleasure to talk to. I talk with them person to person the same topics and some give me the same bolony many on DR1 give me, but many respond to me with an intellectual manner that almost makes me change my way of thinking. Then of course I come to DR1, and all the insults throw me back into my old ways. Stop thinking I'm anti-American!! Can't a person ever say that one day the US won't rule the world? Is that such a big no no? When I say that I'm not being anti-American, I'm saying the truth. Nothing last forever! Geez, if I was anti-American I would probably be supporting the barbaric and no morals Al-Qaeda, but I don't! SO STOP SAYING I'M ANTI-AMERICAN AND START UNDERSTANDING WHAT I'M TYPING RATHER THAN JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, RELAX AND RE-READ MY COMMENTS WITHOUT THAT IDEA OF ME BEING ANTI-AMERICAN!!

Anti-anything Nal0whs has to say is what is actually happening here. Holy mother of God!

 

[mariaobetsanov]

Pueto Rican Political Prisoner!

The US pride itself on being Democratic. Please look up on the net and find how ,many political prisoner are still being held. They are refusing to be US citizens. After the Spanish American War why where the Boriquenos enteligencia living every where else but the island. Its not easy being a conquered people.
Each time it comes up for voting they still not giving up.

 

[NALs]

The US pride itself on being Democratic. Please look up on the net and find how ,many political prisoner are still being held. They are refusing to be US citizens. After the Spanish American War why where the Boriquenos enteligencia living every where else but the island. Its not easy being a conquered people.
Each time it comes up for voting they still not giving up.

Did you know that the original Boriqua flag looked similar to the Dominican flag?

It had the cross and the squares, but it had two red ones on top and two blue ones on bottom and their coat of arm (the sheep) in the center. After the U.S. got Puerto Rico and Cuba from Spain, both island's flags were altered to be what they are are today (cuba blue and white with one star and PR red and white with one star). The purpose was so the people could see America in their flags all the time, which was hoped to create pro-American statehood sentiment. Also, the one star is suppose to be the extra star that would be added to the American flag if PR (and pre-Castro Cuba) would choose statehood.

But, before the US influence, the country that Puerto Ricans used to look up to and admire was the DR. Unfortunately, many Boriquas have forgotten about this and now they treat Dominicans like dirt. I love History, but what good is it if it's not remembered, right?

 

[Texas Bill]

NalOws;

Partner, I really hate to tell you this, but you do come across as Anti-American in most of your posts!
Maybe if you toned down a little you wouldn't seem so.
So far, you've convinced most of us that you are definitly wearing the AA hat.

Think about it, and if your sincere, tone down a bit.

Texas Bill

 

[Tony C]

The US pride itself on being Democratic. Please look up on the net and find how ,many political prisoner are still being held. They are refusing to be US citizens. After the Spanish American War why where the Boriquenos enteligencia living every where else but the island. Its not easy being a conquered people.
Each time it comes up for voting they still not giving up.

Name me one Political Prisoner being held by the U.S.!

 

[ltsnyder]

I got a better Idea in the name of democracy, why don't you try to find out . . .

Name me one Political Prisoner being held by the U.S.!

Don't bother trying to contact trial laywers because they don't have one, don't bother calling state of federal government, becuase thay have no record of thier arrest, try finding parents who report thier grown son or daughter missing and feel the US State and Federal government are doing nothing to track what happened to them. I'm going to have a real laugh when Americas Most Wanted features a missing person that the US Federal government has listed as an enemy combatant, and don't know the Government is the one responsible becuase it's a secret. I'd tell you the limit of the law, but that's a secret too, but then again, it's right or wrong for you anyway isn't it, go ahead . . . (punch line to follow) . . . be a PATRIOT act. :laughter:



The funny thing is, is that as opposed to the DR, which might or might not have all the laws in place to protect it citizens, the US has laws to "NOT" protect thier rights, so it is sooooooo easy to poke fun at the US.

-Lee

 

[Tony C]

Don't bother trying to contact trial laywers because they don't have one, don't bother calling state of federal government, becuase thay have no record of thier arrest, try finding parents who report thier grown son or daughter missing and feel the US State and Federal government are doing nothing to track what happened to them. I'm going to have a real laugh when Americas Most Wanted features a missing person that the US Federal government has listed as an enemy combatant, and don't know the Government is the one responsible becuase it's a secret. I'd tell you the limit of the law, but that's a secret too, but then again, it's right or wrong for you anyway isn't it, go ahead . . . (punch line to follow) . . . be a PATRIOT act. :laughter:



The funny thing is, is that as opposed to the DR, which might or might not have all the laws in place to protect it citizens, the US has laws to "NOT" protect thier rights, so it is sooooooo easy to poke fun at the US.

-Lee

In other words....You Can't!
An enemy combatant is not a political prisoner!

 

[ltsnyder]

that's what you think . . .

In other words....You Can't!
An enemy combatant is not a political prisoner!

but are you sure?


The correct answer is that you can't be sure. The law by it's very nature can be abused, and there are no checks and balances in place. Kind of like a communist saying the communist system works because there are kind and careing people in charge.

-Lee

 

[Tony C]

but are you sure?


The correct answer is that you can't be sure. The law by it's very nature can be abused, and there are no checks and balances in place. Kind of like a communist saying the communist system works because there are kind and careing people in charge.

-Lee

You Highlighted the key word "CAN"! You have no proof that it is happening. You have no proof that it ever happened. So stop saying that it is happening like it is a fact!

 

[NALs]

I don't want to get into another rollercoaster ride with Tony C, but I must say

The funny thing is, is that as opposed to the DR, which might or might not have all the laws in place to protect it citizens, the US has laws to "NOT" protect thier rights, so it is sooooooo easy to poke fun at the US.

-Lee

Patriot Act. The current administration (ie. Bush and company or should I say cronies?) inacted the Patriot Act. Though, there is much to admire there considering the way things are today with terrorism, there is one thing that makes me wonder where are the civil liberties of my friends in the USA?

Oh, could it be? FBI and State Patrols now have the right to search an American citizens property and person with no search warrant if the agent feels that there are probable evidence of terrorist activities? Now they can do that in America.

Oh, could it be? Airliners must present to the government all personal information that airlines got of their passengers without the passengers being aware that such info. is being shared with government officials. Though this is not wrong, but people should know who is taking their personal info. even if its uncle sam, don't they?

Oh, could it be? American citizens under suspicion of terrorist activities will have his/her rights revoked and will be imprisoned without trial or charges until the matter is cleared up? This in America!!! Makes me wonder what is that country becoming?

Oh, could it be? Every American citizen and foreigner that enters or leaves the USA via airplane, land or boat will have his/her identification and personal information stored in a database? Is it true that foreign governments will have to respond to any request of the US government for info. on any person in that database? My my my!

Civil liberties are being eroded in the name of War on Terror. Sorry, but I think someone (ie. Bush) is trying to change America into his own (or one of his brothers who might run for president someday) dictatorship? I don't know, but whatever is happening is not looking good.

In addition to all of that, "God" is back in the White House. No, I'm not referring to Almighty Bush, I'm referring to Bush using God as a political tool. Notice when he said "God is on our (America's) side" and he has been quoted numerous times saying things similar to this "I will fulfill God's mission invested through me" or "God wanted me to be president". My point is not whether God is with the USA or if Bush likes God. My point is that God should not even be thought of as a political tool. The US constitution clearly separates church and state, so why is the church messages infiltrating the state?

It seems to me that by using the word God in front of a message that basically says that American civil rights will be revoked, make things sound so much better. I'm with Itsnyder about the US and not protecting its citizens rights. In fact, now the US is getting rid of them and Americans are fine with that! Unbelievable!!

 

[Texas Bill]

It seems to me that what we are experiencing with the Patriot Act is an overreaction to the threat of terrorism and NOT (as rabblerouser Snyder would have you believe) the forerunner to a planned "dictatorship" takeover.
I'm reminded of the atmosphere (both politically and emotionally driven) that existed immediately after WWII with regard to uprooting and uncovering the threat of Communism (as perceived by the various political and law enforcement agencies of the time) to the US.
The "McCarthy's" of that era were dedicated to uncovering that threat and used methods of investigation which were entirely alien to the guarantees of the "Bill of Rights" of the Constitution of the US.
It is significant that while some agreed with the methodology, a vast majority did not and raised such a furor with Congress that the methodology was abandoned forthwith.
Also, it should be noted that the Patriot Act is a "temporary" legislatiive act which is due to expire soon. It may be that it will be extended and/or augmented with additional features, or it may be reduced in scope, I have no way of knowing.
You can bet your last dollar, however, that when Congress deems the act as having served it's purposes of providing a platform for reducing the threat to the country, it will be relagated to obscurity and/or repealed.
Let's hope that day is soon and that terrorism is obliterated worldwide.

Texas Bill

 

[NALs]

It seems to me that what we are experiencing with the Patriot Act is an overreaction to the threat of terrorism and NOT (as rabblerouser Snyder would have you believe) the forerunner to a planned "dictatorship" takeover.
I'm reminded of the atmosphere (both politically and emotionally driven) that existed immediately after WWII with regard to uprooting and uncovering the threat of Communism (as perceived by the various political and law enforcement agencies of the time) to the US.
The "McCarthy's" of that era were dedicated to uncovering that threat and used methods of investigation which were entirely alien to the guarantees of the "Bill of Rights" of the Constitution of the US.
It is significant that while some agreed with the methodology, a vast majority did not and raised such a furor with Congress that the methodology was abandoned forthwith.
Also, it should be noted that the Patriot Act is a "temporary" legislatiive act which is due to expire soon. It may be that it will be extended and/or augmented with additional features, or it may be reduced in scope, I have no way of knowing.
You can bet your last dollar, however, that when Congress deems the act as having served it's purposes of providing a platform for reducing the threat to the country, it will be relagated to obscurity and/or repealed.
Let's hope that day is soon and that terrorism is obliterated worldwide.

Texas Bill

Though I agree with TBill on this one also, I must say that the last sentence might not become true. If terrorism is based on hatred (real hatred) of America by muslim extremist, I don't think that by invading a country or capturing Osama will bring peace. This is a problem that will exist maybe until the end of the world or until the next worldwar breaks and the extremist get nuked or something. But, the truth is that this hate towards America is something that is taught to these muslim extremist. They are tought from Birth to hate America for XYZ, and if their "leader" is caught, then they will continue to do their Jihad, but this time it will be in the name of their leader and Allah. And this is what makes the Patriot Act different from what happen during the Communism Freak in the US a while ago. Communism basically ended in the 1970s and finally died in the 1980s (except in a few spots). Terrorism is something that will go on as long that the U.S. keeps doing business in the middle east. That is not going to stop anytime soon with all that gasoline coming from there, so it would be my guess that Terrorism is not going to end anytime soon. Which brings me back to the Patriot Act. If it's an over-reaction to the terrorist deal, then this over-reaction will remain in place because these terrorist will continue to hit the U.S. even after Iraq has been rebuild and democratized and even after Osama is dead. Maybe a dictatorship is not in the making in the U.S., but whatever it is, is not democratic. That's for sure! Lets hope for the best because if the U.S. change, the global order of things change and that will bring chaos for a short time around the world. More than enough time for really bad folks to take control. Lets hope for the best!

 

[Texas Bill]

NalOws;

I really hate to puncture your baloon, but Democracy is Alive And Well in the USA.
Regardless of temporary aborrations in the view of others, when the people speak, the government listens and acts. That's Democracy!

Now, back to Dollarization, the purpose of this thread, by the way.

Whether or not Dollarization would be good or bad for the Dominican Republic is a point that only TIME will resolve should that event take place. There are many advantages and disadvantages to such:

1) The government would be UNABLE to print money, thereby stabilizing the currency (although it would be tied to the economic strength of the US).

2) Since goods and services are indexed to the $US already, prices would become more stable and not subject to high inflation as they are now experiencing because of the exchange rates.

3) Exchange houses would essentially cease to exist except to exchange other currencies; thereby the exchange market would experience a more stable atmosphere and reduce speculative volitility in the market.

4) Wage adjustments would follow the health of the international maketplace.
Bear in mind, that the MAIN reason for foreign manufacturers relocation and continued presence in the DR is because of the wage scales and NOT because of the superiority of Dominican workers. If you want to keep manufacturers here, you must offer wage scales which are competative with other countries.
That is a fact that many ignore. You have only to look at the jobs lost in the US manufacturing industry to other countries as an example. Many trade unions in the US have "struck" their own way out of the job market. To businesses, it is the "bottom line" that creates or eliminates jobs, and not some liberal political philosophy designed to glean votes at election time, or to perpetuate ones job as a union official.
5) And I disagree that Dollarization would result in an abrogation of soverignty in the case of the Dominican Republic. I think, rather, that it would enhance that soverignty by creating a more stable and dynamic political and economic atmosphere both international and nationally.

Texas Bill

 

[NALs]

NalOws;

I really hate to puncture your baloon, but Democracy is Alive And Well in the USA.
Regardless of temporary aborrations in the view of others, when the people speak, the government listens and acts. That's Democracy!

Texas Bill

I'm not questioning American Democracy, I know it's alive. I just don't know if it will be down the line. And maybe Iraq slipt your mind. More than half the population still dissaprove this war. In addition to the largest anti-war demonstrations on earth prior to the war and the largest anti-war demonstrations in the U.S. since Vietnam. We still bombed the heck out of Saddam though. Again, not questioning American democracy, just pin pointing what's currently happening to have an answer to difficult questions in the future. (You know, when people start to say " what happened to Democracy? I say, you know I saw this coming when etc")

 

[NALs]

NalOws;
Whether or not Dollarization would be good or bad for the Dominican Republic is a point that only TIME will resolve should that event take place. There are many advantages and disadvantages to such:

1) The government would be UNABLE to print money, thereby stabilizing the currency (although it would be tied to the economic strength of the US).

2) Since goods and services are indexed to the $US already, prices would become more stable and not subject to high inflation as they are now experiencing because of the exchange rates.

3) Exchange houses would essentially cease to exist except to exchange other currencies; thereby the exchange market would experience a more stable atmosphere and reduce speculative volitility in the market.

4) Wage adjustments would follow the health of the international maketplace.
Bear in mind, that the MAIN reason for foreign manufacturers relocation and continued presence in the DR is because of the wage scales and NOT because of the superiority of Dominican workers. If you want to keep manufacturers here, you must offer wage scales which are competative with other countries.
That is a fact that many ignore. You have only to look at the jobs lost in the US manufacturing industry to other countries as an example. Many trade unions in the US have "struck" their own way out of the job market. To businesses, it is the "bottom line" that creates or eliminates jobs, and not some liberal political philosophy designed to glean votes at election time, or to perpetuate ones job as a union official.
5) And I disagree that Dollarization would result in an abrogation of soverignty in the case of the Dominican Republic. I think, rather, that it would enhance that soverignty by creating a more stable and dynamic political and economic atmosphere both international and nationally.

Texas Bill

Don't forget that Dominican products will be much more expensive in the international markets if sold with Dollars rather than Pesos. Since much of what the DR produces (Tobacco, Sugar, Oranges, etc) are produced in other countries with depreciating currencies, you can kiss the Agricultural pilar of the DR economy good bye, at least the for export part of it. Man, what a blow to those Haitians working in the fields!

Dominican pay is already competitive. The only way countries can compete with wages is by lowering them down. We will lose our manufacturing base (those from multinationals in the Free Zones) since the only way under dollarization to depreciate the cost of labor is to actually lower the amount in a paycheck rather than lowering the purchasing power. People react faster and angrier when their paychecks become smaller than when their paychecks stay the same but buy less.

And sovereignity could be at risk. Look at our other neighbor Puerto Rico. Roughly half the population are for Statehood already. Wait a few more years and if the pro-statehood people do a good job at their chanting, Puerto Rico might make it into the U.S. God forbid that all the Pro-independence or Pro-staying like it is types die, leaving the island under more pro-statehood heads. The samething would eventually pop up in the DR. After Dominicans become less exited for the Dollar because they notice that their living standards stay the same rather than increase (many think the country would over night become like the U.S. if the Dollar is used), then all that a person has to say to a group is "listen, we are not doing good because we are not with the U.S. If we join, then the DR would be like NY". Say that in any poor barrio and man, after the Dollarization you would see a pro-uniting U.S. campaign. It's all propaganda of course, but it will have a chance of success.

The reason why I say it's propaganda is because it is. A state doesn't gets a better economy by just joining the U.S. Puerto Rico had an economy until about the 1960s, over 50 years after the U.S. acquired it. The reason why in 1960s it changed was because Puerto Rico began to industrialize by attracting U.S. manufacturing. This was in the days when countries didn't compete by slashing their wages for multi-national corporations.

 

[Narcosis]

Bear in mind, that the MAIN reason for foreign manufacturers relocation and continued presence in the DR is because of the wage scales and NOT because of the superiority of Dominican workers. If you want to keep manufacturers here, you must offer wage scales which are competative with other countries.
That is a fact that many ignore. You have only to look at the jobs lost in the US manufacturing industry to other countries as an example.
Texas Bill

No Bill we don't "IGNORE" this, as a matter of fact it is those same US Unions that lobby and employ local union leaders, help subsidize strikes here and bring to the international attention any and all violations possible.

Along with assorted highly paid NGO and UN employees (some are regular posters here) that continually report so-called health violations, as well as human rights violations that we have no way to overcome and be competative at the same time.

So as you see it is all a Hipocracy game, while we are now asked to drop all subsidies by the IMF the European Union subsidized agriculture with 104 Billion Euros last year! US and Japan over $40 Billion each as well, to protect whom? farmers that basically do not want to leave their way of life or "tradition" at the cost of millions in poor and developing nations, the same nations that are not allowed to sell their products to rich nations making these food producing endevours un-profitable and at the end we get dumped by cheap subsidized surplus..

Instead of adopting the dollar or joining the EU, what we should really strive for is a unification of Latin America, we have more natural resources than most regions of the world. Venezuela should break from Opec and market their oil freely, We could adopt Brazilian tecnology and make it more cost-effective within our own group of nations and copy the EU in having a central regulating body that would monitor elections and bring forth common laws and a continent-wide judicial system and stop being so foolish and dragged into negotiating free-trade deals individually with the US and do it as one big group.