Dominican Republic: A Failed State?

[NALs]

Damm NASDAQ and thier "bursted bubble"
NASDAQ and their "bursted bubble" did pull the global economy down because the US economy has most economies of the world attached to it! I don't think that is bashing the US, instead is recognizing the truth. Everybody knows the US economy has the most influence in the global sphere of things. You are just so coersed into thinking that I am anti-American, but in fact, you are the one that seem to be anti-American attempting to show your disdain for your country through someone else's words. When the bubble bursted, the global economy sanked, that is the truth. Damm nobody!




Damm Americans
The Dominican economy is connected to the US, otherwise why would the rise in the value of the Dollar have such an effect in the DR? Um, where am I "Damming" the Americans here? I'm just saying what is happening, I never cursed the Americans for that, in fact the only one cursing the Americans is you coming up with these redicolous statements towards paragraphs that quite frankly have nothing to do with what you are suggesting!


Damm American tourists
Most of the tourist to the DR are EUROPEAN! I am not damming nobody, just stating the truth! Global Tourism falls, the DR falls! Tourism is the #1 industry in the DR.



Damm IMF
Well, there you have a point, for once! The IMF should just lend the money and ask authorities to spend it properly, not ask them to open their premature economies to global forces, etc. Congratulations, for once you finally hit the nail!

I'm wondering, when will you present a constructive criticism with out you anti-American rheteric? Just wondering!

The biggest Anti-American in this board is the one pointing fingers!

 

[KrackedKris]

Anti American?

The biggest Anti-American in this board is the one pointing fingers!

Did I say anything about being Anti American? I simply quoted your words regarding "outside influences"

You are too easily manipulated

You do make a point now and then, don't let people get you so upset you forget what you are trying to say

 

[gringo in dr]

The election was filled with fraud. It's just that it was going to be so obvious to people outside the DR, that Hippo called his dogs off. Why else do you think he went on tv and congratulated Leonel when only 3% of the votes were counted? That was the best way for him call it off early.

Anyone that was paying attention to the local papers in the days after the elections knows the whole story.

As for the gloom and doom with the DR, I don't think anyone is saying it is going to sink into the ocean. But there is still alot of correction to come. We have not made it to the top of the hill by a long shot. The DR's credit rating keeps dropping. The government is adding 20 - 25 million USD worth of debt to the generators each month. Our street power is now off more than it is on. I believe the current bill to the generators is now $420,000,000 USD or 19,530,000,000 pesos. At the same time they have to come up with $27,000,000 this month to make a payment to the IMF. Never mind the payments they already missed to the paris club.

Let's talk about the central bank cd's for a minute. How can a bank sell cd's at 40%, 50%, up to 60% interest???? I'll tell you one way they could get away with it. They could have everyone one the island foot the bill. Pretty simple really. The germans did the same thing after WWI. Just spool up the printing presses. Double the amount of currency in circulation. Value drops by 50%. So you put in 1 million pesos that was worth $20,000, they give you back 1.5 million pesos which would be worth $15,000. For anyone that says that can't happen, tell me how the peso went from 15:1 to a high of 55:1?

The country and it's people will have to wait out this correction period. Times will get better but not before they get worse. That's my 2 pesos. Take it for what it's worth.

That being said, I'm here for the long haul.

 

[ltsnyder]

I have to agree with what Criss Colon says . . . .

Sure when 9/11 happened in the Puerto Plata area there were over 11 hotels that closed down. But that was just a bad downturn. I'm not saying it's the fault of the Dominicans, but the current crisis in not the fault of the GLobal economy. Baniter did more damage to the DR than 3 9/11s ever could, and the Baniter colapse was all done by a group of people who started cooking thier books at the inception of the company.

The is a saying in the black american community, that what goes around, comes around, and when so many people find that the legal system or the Govenment system is graft and curruption (US is no better). If people don't get involved to do what is right, the system will collapse. I think part of the collapse of a nation is due to the fact that the majority of people are just trying to get food in thier mouths, once that state arrives, no one thinks long term, what is right for the country or how to fix things. I know I am rambling, and I know a ton of people will yell at me for an unfair comparison, or for not reading after Criss C's post in this thread. But I think of Haiti and that only some 15 years ago it had enclave resort areas, almost similar to the DR AI's. I also see many X-"Middle Class" dominicans with problems getting food or making ends meet. I don't blame them for having a family with 2 children, working a salon with a nice cash cusion (in DOminican standards anyway), and finding in a years time finding all thier expenses have more than doubled, and thier living on savings + the cash they make that dosn't make ends meet.

Oh yeah . .. back to that saying, if possible people need to get involved with the govenment and make sure the system works and justice is served, if you turn a blind eye to curruption just because you don't care for the victum, well that leads me back to the saying . . . .

One personal example, some land I have in DR had new boundries drawn by some developer, while I was recompensated for any encrouchment on my origional property, in order to undo the change takes an administrative process that could take from 6 months to a year, and you can't even throw money at it, now that's a system that is not working (with all affected parties in agreement, I might add).

-Lee

 

[NALs]

Did I say anything about being Anti American? I simply quoted your words regarding "outside influences"

You are too easily manipulated

You do make a point now and then, don't let people get you so upset you forget what you are trying to say

That's the problem with the internet, people don't know how someone is really reacting to something. Me, upset and manipulative? Oh please.

Notice how I used your overused tactics of putting someone else's ideas into your image as an anti-American? How does it feel?

Also, yes you did quoted my words regarding outside influences, but quote where I describe myself as Anti-American since that has been your rheteric since day 1 of your subscription into DR1.com towards me? I'm waiting. Oh wait, it could just be that you have more was of finding words or comments that in your mind you just label them as anti-American, when in fact they are not. That leaves me to believe that the Anti-American here is you, simply showing your disdain for your country through someone else's words and image.

Again, when did I got upset? I hate it when people speculate on the emotions and knowledge of people they have never met and probably will never meet in their lives! BTW, I'm not upset yet.

 

[Texas Bill]

For the first time in long time, I find myself having to agree with Lee in his summations. And that REALLY grieves me!
But, he is absolutely right when he says that the people must get into the act; demanding that the anti-corruption laws on the books be observed and implemented, no matter who they get in the process.
That we, in the US, have considerable corruption in both government and in the Corporate sector, goes without comment. It is and has been self-evident in the past as well as in the present. The major differences are that (in most cases) ,in the US the public rises up on it's collective hind feet and demands that it be eliminated and that the doers be punished. Elimination and punishment doesn't always occur, our legal system being protective as it is, but in a majority of the cases, where the evidence is there supporting indictment, such people (corporations and government employees) are brought before the bar of justice and justice is dispensed. I freely admit that many are not convicted, but that is the way things come out in an open society. We must accpt the decisions because we live under the rule of law and all of it's foibles, weak and strong.
Since it is the responsibility of the people, in a democracy especially, to make sure that their elected representives truly act in and on their behalf, perhaps the presence of huelgas (protests) in support of those obligations of the representatives would serve to "BUILD A FIRE" under them and force the issues to the public's advantage. Huelgas conducted frequently enough would certainly give voice to the underlying unrest and make a statement as to what the public expected. No politician will long ignore such activities if carried out periodically and with perserverance. In that manner, the public will begin to know the power it has to direct government activity and eventually the problems endemic to the society will begin to dissappear, or at least be somewhat mitigated into a more reliable, ethical society, politically and economically. (I would hope).


Texas Bill

 

[KrackedKris]

Reading comprehension AGAIN oh my

That's the problem with the internet, people don't know how someone is really reacting to something. Me, upset and manipulative? Oh please.

I believe I said YOU were too easily manipulated

Notice how I used your overused tactics of putting someone else's ideas into your image as an anti-American? How does it feel?


Fine, tiresome pointing out your fallacy of thought though :-(

Also, yes you did quoted my words regarding outside influences, but quote where I describe myself as Anti-American since that has been your rheteric since day 1 of your subscription into DR1.com towards me? I'm waiting. Oh wait, it could just be that you have more was of finding words or comments that in your mind you just label them as anti-American, when in fact they are not. That leaves me to believe that the Anti-American here is you, simply showing your disdain for your country through someone else's words and image.

I hardly need your statement about being anti_American, your words constantly speak for them selves Then again, I suppose it could be a problem of the way you present your arguments?

Again, when did I got upset? I hate it when people speculate on the emotions and knowledge of people they have never met and probably will never meet in their lives! BTW, I'm not upset yet.

Gosh, please don't be upset with me, I have problems sleeping as it is My reference to your becoming "upset" is the habit you have of replying with verbose remarks when your ill conceived and non substantiated "opinions" are proposed as facts

 

[Lambada]

The often heard criticism by the Americans on this board that (1) Dominicans blame the US for everything, (2) that Dominicans never take responsibility, and (3) that Dominicans are over-filled with false pride, would resound as much more CREDIBLE if the people who wrote these things would, only every once in a while, write something, anything, in the slightest bit critical, indicting, or harshly illuminating about their own country. I could cut and paste what these people do write about their own country, but it makes that Dominican syrupy nationalistic crap that the Americans complain about sound balanced in comparison.

YESSS!!

If you can't throw stones at your OWN glasshouse, you shouldn't throw them at anybody else's. As a Brit. I constantly bemoan the simply awful things we did in Africa in the nineteenth century. Wish other countries, like the U.S. could learn from our mistakes.
Back to the DR! Of course the larger damage was done by politicians here in the last 4 years, not as a result of 9/11. The latter was but a sardine to the Sharks in the Dominican government. But....that does not mean the DR will not rise again. I'd say 2 years harsh correction, followed by 2 years of levelling followed by growth.

 

[NALs]

No KrackedKris, I'm not easily manipulated. I'm easily annoyed by ignorant people as yourself that think you know it all including knowing what everybody else is really thinking and/or believes in. Too bad, really! It's your life and I'm sure its pretty miserable because nothing positive comes out of your posts ever.

Its not a problem of the way I present myself or nothing that you feel that I am anti-American. It all goes back to that post where I brought to light on another thread of one negative aspect of the US and you just hammered me with that title, as if to give the impression the US is a flawless country. I'm not an Anti-American, in the contrary I can say with confidence that the real anti-American is yourself. You always find someway of connecting any comment of mine to being Anti-American. The problem lies in that you accept all of my arguments as anti-American, funny thing is I am not even thinking of the US when I type my arguments. If the US comes to play is because it came to play directly or indirectly, but it was a big or small part of it. I could say that Disneyworld is a fabulous place and you will say that is something an Anti-American would say for xyz reasons. I have never met a person that does so well what you do. Only someone that is constantly thinking about Anti-Americanism and probably is an Anti-American can continue to pound another person who simply brought one fault of the US to light. Take into consideration that the faults of the DR brought to light on this board is far far more than anything else, and are Dominicans calling you guys anti-Dominican? I don't think so! In short, leave your anti-American mind to rest and give up already. Face it, the real anti-American is quite frankly yourself. Either that or you are just an uncomformist and as Mr. McDonald's once said something similar to the following: we can't stop doing what we are doing to satisfy some uncomformist.

I will say the same about you, the same you posted as the final piece of your last post.

Just wondering, when was the last time you were in the DR? Never seen a post saying anything about that. I would be interesting to learn that you never set foot here, better yet that you set foot here and now think you own it all and know all about it! Oh well, there are people that are big in life and then there are those that simply dream dream and dream.

If you disagree with what I said above, don't post anything else for the sake of the readers who, as usual, don't have to be punished with this back and forth arguments typically started by yourself. In fact, that is your objective, to hijack every thread and paint me as the anti-American. Like I said before, the one that points the fingers too many times is the guilty one! :nervous:

 

[KrackedKris]

No KrackedKris, I'm not easily manipulated. I'm easily annoyed by ignorant people as yourself that think you know it all including knowing what everybody else is really thinking and/or believes in. Too bad, really! It's your life and I'm sure its pretty miserable because nothing positive comes out of your posts ever.

Its not a problem of the way I present myself or nothing that you feel that I am anti-American. It all goes back to that post where I brought to light on another thread of one negative aspect of the US and you just hammered me with that title, as if to give the impression the US is a flawless country. I'm not an Anti-American, in the contrary I can say with confidence that the real anti-American is yourself. You always find someway of connecting any comment of mine to being Anti-American. The problem lies in that you accept all of my arguments as anti-American, funny thing is I am not even thinking of the US when I type my arguments. If the US comes to play is because it came to play directly or indirectly, but it was a big or small part of it. I could say that Disneyworld is a fabulous place and you will say that is something an Anti-American would say for xyz reasons. I have never met a person that does so well what you do. Only someone that is constantly thinking about Anti-Americanism and probably is an Anti-American can continue to pound another person who simply brought one fault of the US to light. Take into consideration that the faults of the DR brought to light on this board is far far more than anything else, and are Dominicans calling you guys anti-Dominican? I don't think so! In short, leave your anti-American mind to rest and give up already. Face it, the real anti-American is quite frankly yourself. Either that or you are just an uncomformist and as Mr. McDonald's once said something similar to the following: we can't stop doing what we are doing to satisfy some uncomformist.

I will say the same about you, the same you posted as the final piece of your last post.

Just wondering, when was the last time you were in the DR? Never seen a post saying anything about that. I would be interesting to learn that you never set foot here, better yet that you set foot here and now think you own it all and know all about it! Oh well, there are people that are big in life and then there are those that simply dream dream and dream.

If you disagree with what I said above, don't post anything else for the sake of the readers who, as usual, don't have to be punished with this back and forth arguments typically started by yourself. In fact, that is your objective, to hijack every thread and paint me as the anti-American. Like I said before, the one that points the fingers too many times is the guilty one! :nervous:

You think so? With you it is like pulling the strings on a marionette.

Only one question? Who in He...is Mr McDonalds?

 

[Lambada]

I was enjoying this thread, sort of The Pub for intellectuals!! (Sorry, Charlie!).
Please, don't let it get hijacked.
KK if you want a target for anti- Americanisms try me. I did say I had hoped U.S. could learn from Britain's mistakes.
Actually we can ALL learn from other countries' mistakes if we have a sense of HISTORY. I am helped in my beginning understanding of what happens here in the DR by looking at its history........and THAT tells me it WILL rise again.

 

[KrackedKris]

I still want to know who Mr MCDonalds is

I was enjoying this thread, sort of The Pub for intellectuals!! (Sorry, Charlie!).
Please, don't let it get hijacked.
KK if you want a target for anti- Americanisms try me. I did say I had hoped U.S. could learn from Britain's mistakes.
Actually we can ALL learn from other countries' mistakes if we have a sense of HISTORY. I am helped in my beginning understanding of what happens here in the DR by looking at its history........and THAT tells me it WILL rise again.

Lambada, the US did learn from Britains mistakes, we gave you the old heave ho, couple of times

I don't need a target for Anti Americanism, I have Nalwahl who is a veritable magnet

At some point he should realize I am simply yanking his chain and trying to get him to perfect his weak arguments :disappoin

It is actually refreshing to see someone stand up for what they believe in, just needs to justify his reasoning (To satisfy me only) :chinese: :classic:

 

[Chris]

Pub for Intellectuals?

I don't know about that Lambada? --- :classic:

Texas Bill agreeing with Lee! and Lee agreeing with CC... never thought I'd see the day -- and KK waving the flag as usual, baiting Nal0whs to get him to .. wait for it .... perfect his arguments?. ay Dios Mio! What is this world coming to?

 

[Forbeca]

My sentiments exactly. What's going on here? Back to normal you guys

I don't know about that Lambada? --- :classic:

Texas Bill agreeing with Lee! and Lee agreeing with CC... never thought I'd see the day -- and KK waving the flag as usual, baiting Nal0whs to get him to .. wait for it .... perfect his arguments?. ay Dios Mio! What is this world coming to?

 

[Lambada]

I don't know about that Lambada? --- :classic:

Texas Bill agreeing with Lee! and Lee agreeing with CC... never thought I'd see the day -- and KK waving the flag as usual, baiting Nal0whs to get him to .. wait for it .... perfect his arguments?. ay Dios Mio! What is this world coming to?

Is KK the Socrates around here? You're right, Chris, the world is coming to a pretty pass indeed!
Back to the thread! Can anyone give me 3 GOOD reasons why the DR should not recover?

 

[NALs]

You think so? With you it is like pulling the strings on a marionette.

Only one question? Who in He...is Mr McDonalds?

Mr. McDonalds is Mr. Ray Kroc - founder of the food chain.

Since its clear that you agree with what I said on my other post by posting one more stuff, I will rest my fingers now.

 

[Texas Bill]

Mr. McDonalds is Mr. Ray Kroc - founder of the food chain.

Since its clear that you agree with what I said on my other post by posting one more stuff, I will rest my fingers now.

Thank God for SMALL favors!!!

I swear, NalOwhs, your posts are ALMOST as long-winded as MINE!!!

Methinks we need a course in elocutionary science!!!

Have a good daaaaaaaayyyyyy!

Texas Bill

 

[KrackedKris]

I don't know about that Lambada? --- :classic:

Texas Bill agreeing with Lee! and Lee agreeing with CC... never thought I'd see the day -- and KK waving the flag as usual, baiting Nal0whs to get him to .. wait for it .... perfect his arguments?. ay Dios Mio! What is this world coming to?

I could try waving a South Afrikan flag, but I don't wish to be humiliated

 

[Texas Bill]

Now, Now, KK, don't get obtuse.

Remember the Maine!
Remember Pearl Harbor!
Remember the ???

Texas Bill

 

[KrackedKris]

Now, Now, KK, don't get obtuse.

Remember the Maine!
Remember Pearl Harbor!
Remember the ???

Texas Bill

OK, you got me. No idea what fits the third one or how The Maine and Pearl Harbor relate