Dominicanize Yourself: Deception and Subterfuge

[charlise]

Many times I stated on this forum; Rule No. 1 : TRUST NO ONE !!!
Rule no. 2 : Read rule no. 1 and apply.... And that rule did wonders for me.

 

[b?rbaro]

If I would have been oversensitive, I would have come guns blazing not only days ago when you made those statements (which you'll notice, I'm not denying in their entirety) but I would have been as well more biting to that DRDone guy up there or even my compatriot the OP (with which I share a lot of opinions in the social/economic front). However, I totally take issue with your portrayal of us as the absolute worst, which we obviously aren't. So my question to you and the gringos here still stands, if you absolutely abhor the people here, yet still love the island, what is stopping you folks from making your tent on its western third, where the people are supposedly oh so so obviously better in your view?

I also have the same question, I had the same question since I started reading the forum years ago...

Although I'm not dominican I find some of the remarks to be pretty offensive, not specifically this thread

 

[dv8]

i don't feel any need to be dominicanized. i am good being me. i don't deal with dominicans on daily basis either and i am better off living in "splendid isolation", so to speak.

 

[Naked_Snake]

I'd like to know that myself. I'm pretty sure the sarcasm runs deep in that post.

As there isn't a rule forbidding to say what the OP have already admitted elsewhere, allow me to take the liberty: Yes, he's Dominican (in fact, he hails from my paternal ancestral seat, Valverde), but he, like me, is plain disgusted with the current regime, and would like nothing than to see a restoration of old school, hardened trujillismo, to see if some semblance of order and civilization can be restored on this country, and who knows, perhaps the other side of the island as well.

 

[dv8]

like snake said, OP is dominican but with lots of self awareness.

 

[DRDone]

As there isn't a rule forbidding to say what the OP have already admitted elsewhere, allow me to take the liberty: Yes, he's Dominican (in fact, he hails from my paternal ancestral seat, Valverde), but he, like me, is plain disgusted with the current regime, and would like nothing than to see a restoration of old school, hardened trujillismo, to see if some semblance of order and civilization can be restored on this country, and who knows, perhaps the other side of the island as well.

So if you feel that only a hard handed dictator can bring order to the island, than maybe our views are pretty close. I have never believed in strong government, I believe by it's nature it is corrupt and attracts corrupt people, but the DR seems to have no justice for anyone. Murderers let out of jail for whatever their mother can afford, police who constantly don't have gas and need money to go somewhere (which they won't go even after paying - I guess that is another genius predator trait that the OP was referring to), the treatment of foreigners with real extortion whenever they get the chance, and contracts not being enforced.
Why can't the people stand up and do the right thing at any level (socio-economic or otherwise) of society. It just seems to go against everything I believe/believed in, that people can self govern. Yes, there is corruption in every country, but usually it is in pockets. Sometimes with harsh dictatorships it can be found throughout, based on fear and violence, but in the DR without that it is at all levels.
So I guess might as well have a brutal dictator to at least maintain some order. Maybe I'm so upset at the DR because it disproved my chore belief that people can self govern and all people are the same - with good and bad everywhere. I was not sheltered in the DR, and I can't say I found 1 decent or honest Dominican and I met people from every socio-economic level.
Yes, at points I thought they were, but all proved otherwise, or at least analyzing it further I came to different conclusions.

 

[rfp]

You can live here quite well without dominicanizing yourself.
All right, one needs to adapt and find a 'modus operandi' between trying to get buddy-buddy with the locals (Chip's way...)
and despise them.
It's the same everywhere, though with different gaps and mismatches.

I for one stick to my behaviour, (European) ethics and beliefs.
Why should I change because of a mere 10 million people somewhere in the Caribbean? ....

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


donP

I appreciate your determination to maintain your moral compass en a culture that is morally broken in all aspects. I also respect Dominicans like Onion and Carrots who are self aware enough to realize the mire and degradation that we live in and make the decision to not only leave but detach oneself completely from the Dominican community.

I would not underestimate the level of cunning based on interactions with poor Dominicans. I have been exposed to some things here in terms of "loops" in banking and "recycling of money" that are very astute, cunning and sadly very common.

 

[LTSteve]

There are ex-pats such as Messineymar. They are upfront, honest, straight shooter types. They are used to deals being done square, looking right in the eye where you mean what you say and say what you mean. Unfortunately, such is not always the case within the DR. I see a dichotomy between ex-pats raised in the strong Calvinist work ethic typical of Anglo-Saxon cultures where hard work and honesty is the means to achieve versus our Spanish Catholic social structure where deception and subterfuge was and is the modus operandi.

This is not to say that every transaction between two in the DR involves this. It most certainly does not. But until you are sure of the other, you must dominicanize yourself. I would say Dominicans on average, not all or else the word pairguayo wouldn't exist, are psychologically light years ahead of ex-pats, tourists, foreign residents. I view the usual hokey pokey bloated belly Carnival cruise line tourist as prime meat for centuries of psychologically hardened Dominicans. It seems to be easy pickings for these vultures trained in carrion.

The greatest danger lies in relationships in which the female initially is actually interested or feigns interest to obtain a material advantage and/or business transactions involving money. Ex-pats have been on the losing side of these two transactions, exchanges. It has been as a result of being psychological neophytes in an environment where deception and subterfuge are the norm. The devastating emotional, psychological, economical toll on both Dominican and ex-pat alike is stratospheric and demands concrete answers to. What is to be done about it?

LESSON NUMBER-1
Allow me to Dominicanize you. At the point of intersection in an exchange between you and another, you must assume the other will try to deceive you. You must think quick. You corner them into an outcome out of which there are only two possible answers of which one is clearly the lie. The Dominican or dominicanized ex-pat will know you have cornered him/her into two possible outcomes and he/she also knows you know that one answer is clearly a lie. He/she has no choice but to tell you the truth. This skill takes time to hone but you can do it.

You assume that if there is a benefit that the Dominican, Dominican foreign resident or Dominicanized ex-pat can obtain from his exchange with you, he will certainly lie. Once again if the transaction represents any type of benefit to the other, you automatically assume subterfuge and deceit. It is at that point that you begin to craft your own deception within to counter his or hers. Don't rush into this. Take your time. The crafting of a well planned deception takes time. Remember you must protect your emotions and money always.

We'll get into more on this with concrete examples. As any skill, it takes time, experience and examples to learn. Trial and error always helps to set you on the right path. You can dominicanize yourself to survive in those waters. Don't feel this is a cumbersome process. In time you will enjoy getting the upper hand on the other and the other not expecting it. In time, the others will cease trying knowing you can corner them over and over again into truth and lie.

It is difficult to break that North American mind set. Repeat after me. No tango dinero, no tango dinero, no tango dinero, no mui molestar, no mui molestar. A tasar works well.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

A taser?...show them Canadian money coin and they all scatter like your diablo himself.

 

[NALs]

As there isn't a rule forbidding to say what the OP have already admitted elsewhere, allow me to take the liberty: Yes, he's Dominican (in fact, he hails from my paternal ancestral seat, Valverde), but he, like me, is plain disgusted with the current regime, and would like nothing than to see a restoration of old school, hardened trujillismo, to see if some semblance of order and civilization can be restored on this country, and who knows, perhaps the other side of the island as well.

Wow, its amazing there are people that still, even at a hypothetical level, have hope for anything on that side.

Desde 1697 lo tenemos claro, todo lo que est? allende la frontera se perdi? y en a?os recientes estamos aprendiendo que no solo se perdi?, sino que no tiene remedio. Y lo peor es que as? es nos guste o no.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Wow, its amazing there are people that still, even at a hypothetical level, have hope for anything on that side.

Desde 1697 lo tenemos claro, todo lo que est? allende la frontera se perdi? y en a?os recientes estamos aprendiendo que no solo se perdi?, sino que no tiene remedio. Y lo peor es que as? es nos guste o no.

Hope is the last thing a human being loses, no? Even if the task at hand seems daunting and hopeless from the get go. I have been thinking about this quite a lot lately, and I'm getting to the conclusion that Dominican separatism might not be the answer to Haitian needs of vital space, but rather, it has to be met with a Dominican expansionism of its own. As Bonaparte himself used to say, defensive conflicts are bound to end up in defeat in the long run. What did the cession of the Plateau to the Haitians availed Trujillo (or this country, for that matter) in the end, may I ask?

 

[malko]

As there isn't a rule forbidding to say what the OP have already admitted elsewhere, allow me to take the liberty: Yes, he's Dominican (in fact, he hails from my paternal ancestral seat, Valverde), but he, like me, is plain disgusted with the current regime, and would like nothing than to see a restoration of old school, hardened trujillismo, to see if some semblance of order and civilization can be restored on this country, and who knows, perhaps the other side of the island as well.

If a child does something wrong ( say break a plate on purpose ), some people will beat him and lock him up......others will sit him down and explain why he cant do that sort of thing..........
In the first case u make an animal out of him ( he wont do it out of fear ), in the other case u make a responsible human out of him ( he wont do it because he understands it is wrong ).
Education, man, education.......only sheep are ruled by fear.......

P.S. note I took a small thing as example. If ure child shags his sister or shoots the dog, by all means, please whip him......

 

[Naked_Snake]

If a child does something wrong ( say break a plate on purpose ), some people will beat him and lock him up......others will sit him down and explain why he cant do that sort of thing..........
In the first case u make an animal out of him ( he wont do it out of fear ), in the other case u make a responsible human out of him ( he wont do it because he understands it is wrong ).
Education, man, education.......only sheep are ruled by fear.......

P.S. note I took a small thing as example. If ure child shags his sister or shoots the dog, by all means, please whip him......

The fundamental flaw about Dominican "democracy" is that this country entered into it "de golpe" without being fully prepared for it, pretty much like Haitians entered "freedom" without being fully prepared for it, instead of the gradual way that was the path in the British West Indies, or how democracy came to Asian countries like South Korea and Taiwan. I'm more of a fan of giving democracy to the people only when discipline gets to be hardwired into their beings, just like it happened to the scenarios with the gradualist approach, that's all.

 

[malko]

The fundamental flaw about Dominican "democracy" is that this country entered into it "de golpe" without being fully prepared for it, pretty much like Haitians entered "freedom" without being fully prepared for it, instead of the gradual way that was the path in the British West Indies, or how democracy came to Asian countries like South Korea and Taiwan. I'm more of a fan of giving democracy to the people only when discipline gets to be hardwired into their beings, just like it happened to the scenarios with the gradualist approach, that's all.

Very right.

But I still think education is the way to go, not mano duro........Rome wasnt built in a day......

 

[Naked_Snake]

Very right.

But I still think education is the way to go, not mano duro........Rome wasnt built in a day......

True, but you'll have to agree with me that a healthy dose of restoration of fear (or at the very least, respect) for authority is needed first in this country before a soft hand (the proverbial carrot) can be used. The heavy hand of the captain general is needed to cultivate the soil from which the legislator will reap the fruits at a later time.

 

[dv8]

latinos have this strange ability to combine somewhat communist policies (padres de famila, derecho adquirido, liquidation) with christianity. i find this dichotomy confusing. this is why they are better governed by fear (communist approach) but with a healthy doze of kind and positive (religious part). i don't think polite explanations go along way. malko brought up a child as an example. last weekend i was having breakfast with my friend and her family. the kids were pretty unruly. she tried to discipline them, no result. i dryly gave them an order, without even a hint of a smile "sit down, we are talking". they listened to me.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

...I'm afraid of you too dv8. Please don't cast that menacing glare in my direction...

 

[NALs]

Hope is the last thing a human being loses, no? Even if the task at hand seems daunting and hopeless from the get go. I have been thinking about this quite a lot lately, and I'm getting to the conclusion that Dominican separatism might not be the answer to Haitian needs of vital space, but rather, it has to be met with a Dominican expansionism of its own. As Bonaparte himself used to say, defensive conflicts are bound to end up in defeat in the long run. What did the cession of the Plateau to the Haitians availed Trujillo (or this country, for that matter) in the end, may I ask?

Trujillo gave them a sliver of land in 1935, it was Horacio Vasquez that ceded the frontier to 'them,' but lets not forget that in 1929 Haiti was under US military intervention. I think it was a covert US operation, because the Haitians had been claiming those lands since 1844 and DR always denied them their desire. During the return to Spain, the Spanish government was planning to forcibly expell the Haitians that had settled there. It simply doesn't makes sense that the DR woke up one day to give up one of the most fertile (not anymore) spots on the island. It doesn't makes sense until we remember that in 1929 the real capital of Haiti was Washington DC.

As for containing the mess that Haiti has become, it's doable. A good example is Israel and how well they have secured their borders. Illegal crossings have plummeted even along their Egyptian border.

Bonaparte also believed that invading Russia in the middle of winter was a good idea and that re-establishing slavery after giving the slaves in Haiti their freedom was another good idea too. The results speak by themselves. Not saying he was an idiot, but he definitely had his limits.

 

[Onions/Carrots]

Excuse my language, but to the OPs post: Malarkey!!
So Dominicans are these hardened psychological masters that have adjusted in to their environment as master predators.
So these Dominicans who can't register on an IQ test and say Mi Amor are actually brilliant.
Then let me ask you this, after they have scammed $1 Million off of an ex-pat, why do they blow it within a few hours at the local Texaco buying everyone in site Rum and Chicken.
Have you ever gone to see the place of the brilliant Women that have scammed their ex-husband out of the 5000 square foot house. Well that house should now be condemned with all the relatives trashing the place and not a piece of furniture or anything else that hasn't been stolen or sold off.
.

Centuries of deception and subterfuge have created a battle hardened Dominican, psychologically speaking, that can swindle, hoodwink and bamboozle foreigners who are psychological neophytes. Dominicans do this involuntarily, automatically, instinctually. It's not a function of scoring high marks on IQ tests. That is a skill. That's an act of instrumentation. In that arena, you're probably right. What I am talking about is a whole nother creature.

Scoring high marks involves following rules that produce order, structure and cohesion. Being a psychologically deceptive individual involves skirting the rules and discipline needed to follow those same rules. Therefore low marks! But what is lacking in a high IQ score in the collective Dominican mind is more than made up for in psychological subterfuge. Case in point are the 700 million owed to the energy providers. Foreign owned firms that to state in Dominican parlance-ESTAN COGI'O!!!

Centuries of these types of interaction within the DR has created a Dominican mindset that automatically senses weakness and capitalizes on that weakness. It turns emotional necessity (relationships, love, marriage, business transactions between the govt and foreign firms) into capital, into cash, into goods. Not needy of emotional ties that are quickly seen as sentimentality, the Dominican mindset trumps intellectuality and makes fools of those who believe they can reign in those who operate with a Dominican mind.

 

[donP]

Genes and Milk

Correct insight.

All this has by now developed into a scam gene or is sucked in with breast milk.

donP

Centuries of deception and subterfuge have created a battle hardened Dominican, psychologically speaking, that can swindle, hoodwink and bamboozle foreigners who are psychological neophytes. Dominicans do this involuntarily, automatically, instinctually. It's not a function of scoring high marks on IQ tests. That is a skill. That's an act of instrumentation. In that arena, you're probably right. What I am talking about is a whole nother creature.

Scoring high marks involves following rules that produce order, structure and cohesion. Being a psychologically deceptive individual involves skirting the rules and discipline needed to follow those same rules. Therefore low marks! But what is lacking in a high IQ score in the collective Dominican mind is more than made up for in psychological subterfuge. Case in point are the 700 million owed to the energy providers. Foreign owned firms that to state in Dominican parlance-ESTAN COGI'O!!!

Centuries of these types of interaction within the DR has created a Dominican mindset that automatically senses weakness and capitalizes on that weakness. It turns emotional necessity (relationships, love, marriage, business transactions between the govt and foreign firms) into capital, into cash, into goods. Not needy of emotional ties that are quickly seen as sentimentality, the Dominican mindset trumps intellectuality and makes fools of those who believe they can reign in those who operate with a Dominican mind.