Dominicans in the U.S. Can you identify?

[POPNYChic]

My question would be: why be either ashamed or proud of your African Heritage? You after all are an individual moulded by your environment to a certain extent, but you are more than the sum of your ethnic makeup. Americanise in my eyes doesn't mean putting one part of your heritage above another- you simply are what you are and that's not a colour. I honestly have never heard a Dominican deny being part African. Italians and Greek communities, or family retain their culture very well and also assimilate well at the same time.

Oh but that doesnt mean thats not commonly said or implied or morseo, hidden. not saying its right or wrong. i understand exactly why its that way. and you also misunderstood. i am not putting any race above the other anymore but dominican culture teaches you white is right, followed by indian. i think all are just as relevant as they are all part of you and comprise you and your families history as a whole, and that is how i am americanized or rather......swimming between both....as many dominican-americans now find themselves....

 

[Lambada]

Have you read this, POPNYChic?
The Tribulations of Blackness: Stages in Dominican Racial Identity. Silvio Torres-Saillant

 

[Fiesta Mama]

My husband is Dominican (living in Toronto) and I can say with certainty that he relates more with the "Latino" community than with the "black" community. Honestly, I know he does not think about his colour much and rather much more about his culture. Things like similar tastes in food, music, and language, etc. are much more influential here in Toronto than is colour.

As an aside, someone mentioned how "white" Americans ask probing questions about one's background like where are you from, what is your background, etc. I can say from personal experience that I have also asked such questions. Being married to someone who has immigrated to our great country of Canada peaks your interest about where others may be from. When I am in a taxi, for example, and they mention "in my country", I always ask where they are from and listen to what they miss from home and what they like about Canada. I am truly interested to know where our residents are from and I love to hear their stories of how they got here, etc.

Sometimes I think people make too big a deal about the colour of one's skin and too many people take offence to Domincans not really identifying with the "black" community when in fact they really have more in common with those from similar countries like in South and Central American and latino Islands who speak their language and eat similar food.

 

[POPNYChic]

Lambada, pg 136 made my heart sink as it aptly described some of the things i felt as a teen.

I knew much of this historical background stuff but these observations i hadnt come across. I have to say it sums up my feelings right now. I dont know if I will change my mind as life continues but right now...this is what I see....its good to know I am not crazy for it.

It was very much a burden for me at one point. I have only as of the last few years leveled off lol Quite a connundrum when you start to think about it and negotiate what it all means.

 

[jrhartley]

basically we are all a mixture.......so get on with it.....people used to ask where my red hair came from..who knows and who cares.....there was a program on tv that traced peoples dna and basically we all have some black and some white ancestors....thats racism sorted....next question

 

[pkaide1]

It's like trying to compare apples and bananas. England has been full of Englishmen for many, many centuries. America, in comparison, is relatively young. Also consider the size of America. Beginning in the 1800s many different ethnic groups came here in huge numbers. Germans, Irish, Italians, till about 1920. More recently Asians: Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi. Vietnamese. Not to mention the Latinos who arrived in droves in the past 50 years or so. We're talking about massive influxes of people rivaling England's population. Each group was ostracized upon arrival. They created their own enclaves, mostly in big cities, where they spoke their own language, cooked their own foods, helped others find work, etc. They were in America, but they were still Irish, Italian, Dominican, Vietnamese. They created their home country in their neighborhoods. A massive number of Americans, like me, are the 1st and 2nd generation born here.

Give us a thousand years to attain assimilation as England and Great Britain have. By then we probably won't be hyphenated Americans any more.

AE

Just let people be whoever they want to be, under the law and the constitution. And by the way Canada as a country is younger than the United States and they do not have the Irish, Italian, Black, Hispanic American BS. They are just Canadians.

 

[bob saunders]

Oh but that doesnt mean thats not commonly said or implied or morseo, hidden. not saying its right or wrong. i understand exactly why its that way. and you also misunderstood. i am not putting any race above the other anymore but dominican culture teaches you white is right, followed by indian. i think all are just as relevant as they are all part of you and comprise you and your families history as a whole, and that is how i am americanized or rather......swimming between both....as many dominican-americans now find themselves....

I know a thing or two about Dominican Culture, having been married to a Dominicana for 10 years. In September we took the grade 7 class to the Centro Leon in Santiago. One of the first things out of the tour guides mouth was that the Dominican Culture and people were a mixture of African and European.

 

[POPNYChic]

I know a thing or two about Dominican Culture, having been married to a Dominicana for 10 years. In September we took the grade 7 class to the Centro Leon in Santiago. One of the first things out of the tour guides mouth was that the Dominican Culture and people were a mixture of African and European.

I do not negate your experiences. But theres another dimension to it as well that you as an outsider will never quite get because you will never feel the brunt of it. Its just how it is. I will not argue on what is known fact and history. We certainly do not have to have the same views and thats ok. However I hope you do not negate the experiences of countless others just because they dont match yours.


Did you read Lambada's link, BTW? Quite poignant and describes the thoughts and feelings of many and the history behind it all. Its difficult to understand unless you are born into it and even then its difficult to take a step back and REALLY see the whole picture sometimes. Not a bad thing either. Just different perspectives. Its all interesting.

 

[POPNYChic]

Now I am in no way surprised that some may not understand, Dominican and otherwise, because we don't all take the time and/or have the opportunity or experiences that cause us to step back and observe the pecking order, why it exists, and why we are so reluctant to even acknowledge it exists. History tells it better than I ever will so I will not bother going into it.

Opinions will differ....but thats why I wanted to see what other Dominican Americans who have been immersed in American culture thought.

This is something I cannot discuss with, say, my mother, because she simply cannot see thru my eyes. Our experiences in America have been vastly different.

 

[30Taina]

I'm sure I am speaking for many when I ask out of pure honest curiosity: why Idaho? I've been to Idaho - even the people look like potatoes.

So Mr. Rey de Mangu,
I was working in California and I was offered a job in Idaho. Making more money and cost of living was less. Why not? Am I here forever, probably not.
Is an experiences. Before California I was in Japan.
In my humble opinion, life is to short. I am not going to stay in an area just because I am comfortable.
I love Mangu, but not everyday chulo.
Ps. I don't look like potatoes, yo soy del Cibao.

 

[Lambada]

Lambada, pg 136 made my heart sink as it aptly described some of the things i felt as a teen.

I knew much of this historical background stuff but these observations i hadnt come across. I have to say it sums up my feelings right now. I dont know if I will change my mind as life continues but right now...this is what I see....its good to know I am not crazy for it.

It was very much a burden for me at one point. I have only as of the last few years leveled off lol Quite a connundrum when you start to think about it and negotiate what it all means.

Sometimes it can help to contextualise it. There are two other authors I would recommend, both approaching the subject from different perspectives: Ernesto Sagas & Ginetta E B Candelario, as well as the work of Ramona Hern?ndez, professor of sociology and director of the Dominican Studies Institute at the City University of New York. If you want specific titles please PM me. And, by the way, this is a recognised field of study in the social sciences - nothing 'crazy' about what you experienced at all. There are many scholars trying to get to the bottom of it and developing theoretical frameworks to make sense of what can appear to be dissonant themes.

 

[bienamor]

No

Bienamor, White immigrants to the U.S. are also just accepted as "All American" as soon as they learn English or when their 1st generation kids are born. With other races it doesn't occur that way. You can have roots in the u.s. for 97967857543 years back and assimilate fully from day 1 and still be labeled with a hyphen. Apples and Oranges. You are correct about that.

you have been in NYC too long, they were not accepted, some of the Irish even fought with the Mexicans in the war against Mexico. and the People in upper Michigan and Minnesota are still referred to as BoHunks for Bohemia. and the Hyphen labels were not started by the "All Americans". It was started by those that wanted a separation. Normally the Italians, Irish etc did not Hyphenate this is relatively new for them last 40 years or so. Don't really understand why this is necessary. I hear African-American, Mexican American, but not Brazilian-American, or Argentine-American, only recently do you hear Italian-American, German-American, or Greek-American.

why are there no Chinese-Dominicans, or Japanese-Dominicans, Jewish-Dominicans, Or even African-American-Dominicans there are enclaves of each, but they don't refer to themselves as such.

 

[mountainannie]

article from Hernandez

Thought I would post this link since Lambada referenced Ramona Hernandez

MiamiHerald.com | Afro-Latin Americans


We had quite a discussion about this on Michele Wucker's Dominican listserv which was active at the time. As an alum of the City University, I was finally moved to write to both Ms Hernandez and the Chancellor for what I deemed to be -- at best culturally insensitive, at worst, racist, remarks.... This was after I had corresponded with the reporter. I got a response from Dr Hernandez, from others, especially touching from Edwidge Dandicat.

 

[mountainannie]

this is very true

you have been in NYC too long, they were not accepted, some of the Irish even fought with the Mexicans in the war against Mexico. and the People in upper Michigan and Minnesota are still referred to as BoHunks for Bohemia. and the Hyphen labels were not started by the "All Americans". It was started by those that wanted a separation. Normally the Italians, Irish etc did not Hyphenate this is relatively new for them last 40 years or so. Don't really understand why this is necessary. I hear African-American, Mexican American, but not Brazilian-American, or Argentine-American, only recently do you hear Italian-American, German-American, or Greek-American.

why are there no Chinese-Dominicans, or Japanese-Dominicans, Jewish-Dominicans, Or even African-American-Dominicans there are enclaves of each, but they don't refer to themselves as such.

In the NYC where I grew up.---- just after the dinosaurs walked the earth-- there were still very strict ethnic enclaves- Jewish (meaning mostly European), Italian, German, Irish, Puerto Rican, Black. I did indeed hear Italian-American, German-American.... but the Greeks, just stayed Greek, probably because they had their own church and their own diners, who knows?

Not to discount the Dominican immigrant experience which is unique because more than any other group, the Domincans are more likely to be a mixed African.. which does indeed come up against the US's "one drop" perception.

Added to that, of course, and probably more confusing for the Dominican immigrants, as POP was suggesting, I think, is the fact that the most Dominicans simply do not perceive themselves as Black, have little identification with the struggles of racial discrimination and the history of slavery, and may feel as if they are being placed in a category into which they do not belong.

Is that what you are saying, POP?

 

[POPNYChic]

you have been in NYC too long, they were not accepted, some of the Irish even fought with the Mexicans in the war against Mexico. and the People in upper Michigan and Minnesota are still referred to as BoHunks for Bohemia. and the Hyphen labels were not started by the "All Americans". It was started by those that wanted a separation. Normally the Italians, Irish etc did not Hyphenate this is relatively new for them last 40 years or so. Don't really understand why this is necessary. I hear African-American, Mexican American, but not Brazilian-American, or Argentine-American, only recently do you hear Italian-American, German-American, or Greek-American.

why are there no Chinese-Dominicans, or Japanese-Dominicans, Jewish-Dominicans, Or even African-American-Dominicans there are enclaves of each, but they don't refer to themselves as such.

Umm I stand by what i said and BTW I havent been in NYC for years. Had I remained there I wouldnt have come to any of these conclusions:tired:

 

[POPNYChic]

MAnnie, yep.


The U.s. claims to be a melting pot when its actually a regular pot with 97865 different compartments where everyone keeps to themselves, and in which only a select few of the compartments actually feature people melding together.

The DR on the other hand is a TRUE melting pot. We are not prepared to deal with these separatist notions so it can be an interesting feat to traverse as you attempt to assimilate. We are used to being many different people who see themselves as "one race" and culture of varying hues. Other immigrants wont entirely see it like us because theres only one DR.

People are getting defensive as if thats outrageous to state. Its an accurate comparison and a very true factor in many of Dominican Americans lives. No need to get irritated or try to negate others very real and true experiences. No blame is being placed.

It is what it is. Every country has its own particular culture, history and dynamics. When you put two together its normal to get these kinds of situations.

If folks dont want it to be mentioned....they dont have to read!

That said, I think both cultures could stand to learn a thing or two from each other.

Americans could learn from Dominicans "we are all one, no matter the color" culture. And some Dominicans need to read up on the civil rights movement in the u.s. to put some of our skin-tone related biases into perspective. All in good time.

 

[POPNYChic]

30Taina, I agree with just going wherever its best for you, its what I have done and i have no regrets. I will jump into anywhere if it means I will be better off. I dont care if theres no one familiar there. I see that as a good trait lol

 

[jrhartley]

interesting - twin girls

 

[POPNYChic]

jhartley, you know why those twins are interesting? Because theyre not Dominican! lol This is what I mean. In the UK and U.s. thats news. In the DR i know at least 5 families with twins like that and rest assured there are countless more lol You see that kind of variation in the average Dominican family, period, but take those families to the u.s. and suddenly you're a freak show and people wont stop probing lol

Its funny and puzzling at the same time for me. But again thats because of what I am used to seeing VS. what others are accustomed to.

 

[jrhartley]

I wonder why no one is interested in shades of white - i mean irish people must be some of the whitest...