So how do you take a remote paternity test? Do you Fed Ex her the swabs, have her do them and then Fed Ex them back to the USA for processing?
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- Thread starter chas123
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DR child ID
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The Hague Convention - U.S. of A. is a party to the treaty.
She did not sue the American in the Netherlands, the suit was in the U.S. of A. based on the Hague Convention agreement by the U.S. of A.
Sounds fine and dandy until you attempt to enforce it. Hague is all smoke and mirrors, the toothless tiger they call these conventions. George W. Bush taught us that, remember those days? The US has no child support treaty with DR, but they have one with several European countries. Why is that?
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DCL-16-11. International Recovery of Child Support and Other Forms of Family Maintenance - US signed 8/30/16. But it will only be in effect with another country 4 months after that reciprocal country signs and then also present to the Hague - but the DR is not one of the countries listed as a party to the agreement DCL-16-11. (Unless someone has updated information)
I had a DR girlfriend for 3 years that ended in Dec 2008 ( a campesina from Rio San Juan). Even though I had been in DR for some time I first ran into her again in 2015 and she had an ~ 5-year old son. She said it was mine.
Didn't look like me (much darker than both of us) and I told her it would have been the longest conception in history as he was born about 14 months after the last time we had seen each other (and my passport stamps backed that up).
The funny part is her older sister and I had already talked and she had told me all about the kid and who the father was and that she may ask for money when I saw her. The older sister is poor, but brutally honest, and the only one in her family I trust.
If Dominican women would play the long game and not try to deceive so many foreign men they would likely find a majority of men would support their own child without so much blow-back. But that is not their way, many are looking for the quick strike.
Don't trust and do verify.
Didn't look like me (much darker than both of us) and I told her it would have been the longest conception in history as he was born about 14 months after the last time we had seen each other (and my passport stamps backed that up).
The funny part is her older sister and I had already talked and she had told me all about the kid and who the father was and that she may ask for money when I saw her. The older sister is poor, but brutally honest, and the only one in her family I trust.
If Dominican women would play the long game and not try to deceive so many foreign men they would likely find a majority of men would support their own child without so much blow-back. But that is not their way, many are looking for the quick strike.
Don't trust and do verify.
You acknowledge the likelihood that the child in question is the result of your involvement with this woman - good for you.
The highroad suggests that you do all you can to give this child the best possible education and opportunities later in life. The last thing anyone needs is another struggling Dominican feeling compelled to attach themselves to one or more foreign tourist income streams.
As for this particular situation. You have probably managed to progress through this relationship without getting documented as the birth father. Assuming that you are the birth father, apart from your moral obligations it may be that currently you have zero assignable legal liability for this child until paternity can be proven - at which point the game changes.
From what you have said, this to me sounds like an attempt to come up with a compelling reason to convince you to get documented. The women may not have accurate information that she can get all ID documents herself and has been told that she needs you for some or all of this process. It may be that whatever EU country she may wish to relocate to is requiring the details for the father of the child. It may be none of these reasons and something else entirely. I suspect her new European wallet is not willing to take ongoing legal responsibility for the child so mom is attempting to correct the omissions of the past.
Right now, you may be in the most advantageous position that you could be in. Legally, this isn't your child and you do not have to pay mom & child support for the next 18 years. Morally this is not the case but we'll keep this focuses on legality for now. Anything you do from this point forward could make your situation less desirable.
It's always nice to know if a child is really yours. In this country, little can be taken for granted or at face value. However, the ambiguity of not knowing for sure, can work in your favor. If paternity is established, then you cannot question/challenge it later on. Unless you absolutely have to know, I wouldn't get a paternity test until forced to or the circumstances change and there is a clear advantage to you and the child to do so.
I would not return to the DR for any reason ever. You may not know the extent of the allegations this woman can make against you and it won't be until you set off alarms at the airport here that you find out.
You have a choice:
1) Status Quo: Support the mother & child from afar with as much fairness as possible until she shacks up with another foreigner at which time you may focus your support on the child - not that anything you give will be put aside for the child.
2) All In: Get documented, assume your parental rights/duties get this child out of the DR and into a country where she can thrive and mature into someone other than yet another potential honey pot. This will probably involve a lot of shared time with Mom too, but in for a penny, in for a pound.
3) Walk away: You could suggest that Mom get her current European Beau to assume legal responsibility for the child (adopt) and then let him deal with all the paperwork of getting the child into Europe. I would also not facilitate US citizenship for this child until she is 18 and considered an adult and then only if the daughter specifically asks. If daughter then wishes to help mom get into the US to stalk you for past affronts, that would be the daughter's decision. Mom being the guardian of record for a minor child with US citizenship and an absent US Dad, could open you up to a whole new world of enforceable legal liability.
This is something you have to figure out for yourself based on your own circumstances and wishes. The preponderance of the suggestions here seem to suggest that returning to the DR is not a good idea. Getting involved in the documentation of this child seems to suggest that it is you who is being documented and since you have not been a part of the lives of these two (there is in fact someone onsite now) you may wish to leave it that way.
Good luck. In the end, remember on some level, this child's future depends on you. Start a college fund in a US bank, name the child in your will, and prepare for the day when you can make a major difference in this child's life for the better regardless of how you feel about Mon now or in the future. Don't forget to take whatever steps are needed to facilitate that child getting US citizenship on her own, should she choose to do so, after she turns 18 and you are not available because you have been run over by a bus years earlier.
The highroad suggests that you do all you can to give this child the best possible education and opportunities later in life. The last thing anyone needs is another struggling Dominican feeling compelled to attach themselves to one or more foreign tourist income streams.
As for this particular situation. You have probably managed to progress through this relationship without getting documented as the birth father. Assuming that you are the birth father, apart from your moral obligations it may be that currently you have zero assignable legal liability for this child until paternity can be proven - at which point the game changes.
From what you have said, this to me sounds like an attempt to come up with a compelling reason to convince you to get documented. The women may not have accurate information that she can get all ID documents herself and has been told that she needs you for some or all of this process. It may be that whatever EU country she may wish to relocate to is requiring the details for the father of the child. It may be none of these reasons and something else entirely. I suspect her new European wallet is not willing to take ongoing legal responsibility for the child so mom is attempting to correct the omissions of the past.
Right now, you may be in the most advantageous position that you could be in. Legally, this isn't your child and you do not have to pay mom & child support for the next 18 years. Morally this is not the case but we'll keep this focuses on legality for now. Anything you do from this point forward could make your situation less desirable.
It's always nice to know if a child is really yours. In this country, little can be taken for granted or at face value. However, the ambiguity of not knowing for sure, can work in your favor. If paternity is established, then you cannot question/challenge it later on. Unless you absolutely have to know, I wouldn't get a paternity test until forced to or the circumstances change and there is a clear advantage to you and the child to do so.
I would not return to the DR for any reason ever. You may not know the extent of the allegations this woman can make against you and it won't be until you set off alarms at the airport here that you find out.
You have a choice:
1) Status Quo: Support the mother & child from afar with as much fairness as possible until she shacks up with another foreigner at which time you may focus your support on the child - not that anything you give will be put aside for the child.
2) All In: Get documented, assume your parental rights/duties get this child out of the DR and into a country where she can thrive and mature into someone other than yet another potential honey pot. This will probably involve a lot of shared time with Mom too, but in for a penny, in for a pound.
3) Walk away: You could suggest that Mom get her current European Beau to assume legal responsibility for the child (adopt) and then let him deal with all the paperwork of getting the child into Europe. I would also not facilitate US citizenship for this child until she is 18 and considered an adult and then only if the daughter specifically asks. If daughter then wishes to help mom get into the US to stalk you for past affronts, that would be the daughter's decision. Mom being the guardian of record for a minor child with US citizenship and an absent US Dad, could open you up to a whole new world of enforceable legal liability.
This is something you have to figure out for yourself based on your own circumstances and wishes. The preponderance of the suggestions here seem to suggest that returning to the DR is not a good idea. Getting involved in the documentation of this child seems to suggest that it is you who is being documented and since you have not been a part of the lives of these two (there is in fact someone onsite now) you may wish to leave it that way.
Good luck. In the end, remember on some level, this child's future depends on you. Start a college fund in a US bank, name the child in your will, and prepare for the day when you can make a major difference in this child's life for the better regardless of how you feel about Mon now or in the future. Don't forget to take whatever steps are needed to facilitate that child getting US citizenship on her own, should she choose to do so, after she turns 18 and you are not available because you have been run over by a bus years earlier.
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Since a Dominican won her lawsuit.
I would guess that the law allows a party in a member country to be sued by a party in another country, whether the suing party´s country is a member or not.
The lawsuit is taking place in the sued member´s country, the country of the one doing the suing is not involved.
In other words, a party in non-member country could not be sued by a party in a member country.
I would not think that both parties had to be in a member country, only that the party being sued was in a member country.
Is this in regards to the party of the first part, or the party within the second part? Regardless, it hardly sounds like the type of party I would like to be invited to. Members are a different story.
Geez..
The.real issue is can you collect...and can you enforce the judgement? And presumably....no.
I agree with Canadian Gringo that he should declare himself as the childs father, morally and better opportunities, etc. Paternity test sure. But just get counsel before you come so there are no surprises when you arrive or when you leave. To me, that is the only point of this whole thread. "Do you know of any reputable law firms in her province that specialize in family law and things of this nature?".
Doesnt matter the mother isnt the most.forthcoming or honest, you have legal representation for yourself. The lawyer deals with all official correspondence, not you. Also this is your buffer against whatever Tom Folly she may be trying to execute.
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If you come to the DR within ONE HOUR of seeing her you will go straight to jail. She is obviously scheming up anything to get you physically here. All she needs to get you arrested is a good lawyer and some contact you had with her about your child. Then she says you are not paying support. BINGO...............
What case was won. Do you have a link ?
So ladies who hook-up with Sankies don't expect child support or involvement in the child's life if he knocks you up, as if you 'really' thought that would happen anyway ?
So here are some facts.
1. The DR is a signatory to the Hague Convention
2. The case was won in August last year.
Links are.
http://hoy.com.do/dominicana-logra-fallo-a-su-favor-en-corte-de-familia-eu/
https://hananisaacs.com/2012/06/treaty-could-aid-enforcement-of-overseas-child-support-orders/
https://www.hcch.net/en/news-archive/details/?varevent=579
https://www.hcch.net/en/states/other-connected-states/details2/?sid=212
Matilda
1. The DR is a signatory to the Hague Convention
2. The case was won in August last year.
Links are.
http://hoy.com.do/dominicana-logra-fallo-a-su-favor-en-corte-de-familia-eu/
https://hananisaacs.com/2012/06/treaty-could-aid-enforcement-of-overseas-child-support-orders/
https://www.hcch.net/en/news-archive/details/?varevent=579
https://www.hcch.net/en/states/other-connected-states/details2/?sid=212
Matilda
Last year? All those links are from.2012.
So...no chance.of enforcement or collection.
Furthermore I keep asking who sets the award? Child Support in DR is $40/month/child. Even if a guy worked at a full service gas station he shouldnt have trouble.paying that.
There is NO treaty with the USA. The USA has a treaty with Germany, France, why not DR?
And NJ says they can do something....but what precisely can they do? States cannot enter treaties with foreign nations. So all they can do is locate the perspective father and......what next?
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I give up. This case http://hoy.com.do/dominicana-logra-fallo-a-su-favor-en-corte-de-familia-eu/ was in August last year 2017. As it says on the newspaper article. I can promise you that this is correct, there are several cases ongoing at the moment and the level of child support is set by the US Court.
Matilda (banging her head against a brick wall)
I think a case can be won without the Hague convention, as I think this case was that you posted. And the Hague has no legal standing.
But I still don't see where the DR is a signatory to either the 2007 or the 2016 convention.
Here is the only list of the countries that signed that I can find:
https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/status-table/print/?cid=131
Smoke and mirrors.
Wear a helmet. Traumatic cranial injuries.are serious.
The State determines the award based on income but aint no state gonna go ahead and disperse 20% of a respondents income(presumed annual income $60,000US) to a recipient in a developing nation. The gears.of.fraud will start churning at full speed.
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The DR is a signatory to part of the convention but not all elements. This is the link to the DR part of the Hague Convention website https://www.hcch.net/en/states/other-connected-states/details2/?sid=212
I will answer this, just to set the record straight. As far as NJ is concerned, DR sets the amount of child support, NJ collects it and remits to DR. I know this is the law, daughter is a a Senior Probation Officer in Child Support, in NJ.
As far as this thread, the OP has received a great deal of information, beginning with that of Sr. Guzman. He may open another thread is there are new developments, but this one is closed.
re dr child id
just an update... so I came to the DR and there is absolutely no problem. I'm not sure of legal documentation required, etc. but when the child was born, there is only one document. there is another where both parents legally put their names. she never did that. I went with her to her hometown and we completed the paperwork.
just to be clear, there was never any question about paternity, no test, but it obvious. and by the way, she is a beautiful little girl. the reason for my post was about some of the things she said that made think there was something else afoot. but there is / was nothing of the sort.
and yes, I have been 'around' and supportive. but this thing about this legal document was new to me so I had some questions. bottom line, she wanted everything to be legal as far the father and mother, of which I have no issue.
the thing about healthcare was due to her aversion to using the hospital in her hometown, which she believed to be substandard, so she had private insurance. but apparently, she could not add my daughter to this insurance without the proper documentation.
anyway, all is good, the mother is sincere, my daughter is awesome. actually I will be moving here for at least the better part of each year.
and again, thanks for all the response. this forum is truly useful
just an update... so I came to the DR and there is absolutely no problem. I'm not sure of legal documentation required, etc. but when the child was born, there is only one document. there is another where both parents legally put their names. she never did that. I went with her to her hometown and we completed the paperwork.
just to be clear, there was never any question about paternity, no test, but it obvious. and by the way, she is a beautiful little girl. the reason for my post was about some of the things she said that made think there was something else afoot. but there is / was nothing of the sort.
and yes, I have been 'around' and supportive. but this thing about this legal document was new to me so I had some questions. bottom line, she wanted everything to be legal as far the father and mother, of which I have no issue.
the thing about healthcare was due to her aversion to using the hospital in her hometown, which she believed to be substandard, so she had private insurance. but apparently, she could not add my daughter to this insurance without the proper documentation.
anyway, all is good, the mother is sincere, my daughter is awesome. actually I will be moving here for at least the better part of each year.
and again, thanks for all the response. this forum is truly useful
If the child is indeed yours; do you feel any paternal instincts toward the child?
Follow advice and demand a Paternity test.
If the child is your offspring then it is up to you whether or not you want to contribute.
If not yours then there is no moral issue nor obligation to do anything.
The best possible protection in these matters is a condom!
Think about that in the future.
I have only been around here 9 years off and on' but the story sounds familiar.
Russell