Enforced child maintenance.

[Aguaita29]

When all was said and done, he was required to spend around 1000 pesos a month for food and pampers, which doesn't sound like much but it's a big chunk of a national policeman's salary. If he refuses to pay, he'll go to jail.

I can't speak to what it would be like to be on the receiving end of the legal action but everything seemed fair from my perspective.

What you are ordered to pay depends on what you do and your montly income.

I`ve seen several cases in which the woman gets so much more from the guy before she takes him to court. Sometimes the guy provides money, but also food or milk and diapers, but she still thinks she can get more. Then he ends up giving her just what he was ordered to, and no food.

 

[dv8]

yes, exactly, aguaita. but the percentage of the income to take is relatively low. hence the case of a friend i wrote about. whenever his ex threatens to take him to court he says: go ahead. she just back off immediately because she knows that yes, she'd get cash, but maybe half of what he is spending on his son today.

 

[J.Baby]

What never ceases to amaze me is the number of statists/communists/fascists from the "developed" world who come to the DR.

They flee the overbearing and intrusive police-state- like societies they come from only to encourage the growth and transplant of such oppressive apparatus here in the DR. Why do they hate DR so much ????? Why do they hate themselves so much ????

Maintenance of a child is an issue that should remain exclusively between the Mother and the Father ( and their families).
Government/Courts should have next to no role to play. Confiscating a man's salary is slavery. Ordering a man to prison because he cannot pay or won't is tyranny. We abolished Debtor's prisons a long time ago.

It is only a matter of time, because of many of you idiots, that DR becomes the disaster that the US has become with regard to this issue.

Oppressive government will expand once it figures out it has a new potential revenue source,
Women will become even more reckless and irresponsible with whom they procreate since they perceive that their bad judgment can be fixed by 'Daddy Government.'
Eventually, like in the US, normal hardworking guys will end up in the meat grinder: the result ?
-Destruction/poisoning of male/female relations, corsening of female outlook: man as wallet only

The child support regime in the US is a direct contributor to the breakdown of the family structure in the US and the degradation of male/female relations - a big reason why many men refuse to even date/marry in the US - and you people want to transplant that here.

For the guy encouraging his new girl to take her baby dad to court for support - threatening jail - SHAME ON YOU. You are not helping anything.

Wow? I guess you have never tried to raise a child, ANYWHERE, on one income. So only women should pay for their children? Men should be allowed to play and not pay? As a child raised on one measily income, I can tell you; children shouldn't have to go without because the father doesn't want to go without.

Yes there are women who abuse the system. But if you have the bad luck to have been messing with a woman like that- get a vasectomy, use a condom- at least until you become a better judge of character.

I know what some women are like. But just because of that, children shouldn't have to go without. How a man could deny his children in order to save a few hundred bucks a month, is beyond me.

 

[Aguaita29]

yes, exactly, aguaita. but the percentage of the income to take is relatively low. hence the case of a friend i wrote about. whenever his ex threatens to take him to court he says: go ahead. she just back off immediately because she knows that yes, she'd get cash, but maybe half of what he is spending on his son today.

Yes, exactly what I`m saying! Sometimes they think they can squeeze more out of the guy, but end up getting less.

 

[pauleast]

A guy posts a question seeking advice about child maintenance's in the D.R and all of a sudden children are starving in the street, woman can't catch a break , are being used and abused and all guys are shirking there fiduciary responsibility to save beer money.

 

[kdolo]

Wow? I guess you have never tried to raise a child, ........
I know what some women are like. But just because of that, children shouldn't have to go without. How a man could deny his children in order to save a few hundred bucks a month, is beyond me.

1. Re: children: 'mother's baby, father's maybe': have you ever heard that refrain ??? Yes - the female has greater responsibility because it is she that gets pregnant and has to carry the baby. Thus, the female needs to very careful whom she allows between her legs and under what conditions. ALL of human societies have recognized this - hence the existence of the 'double standard' in just about every society.

2. You recommend vasectomy and condoms and better character judgement: so its ok for you to recommend this to men, but not to women - the ones who actually get pregnant.

3. The men who deny their children are men with low character. That's why the onus must be the female to control her sexuality and make better character judgments.

The state should NOT intervene in these matters. Some of you act like Family Courts and Child Support have been existence forever - they have not and are recent phenomenons in Western Societies. Their advent mirrors the rise in Bastardy and illegitimacy.....and will eventually increase these problems - what is happening in the US is proof.

Destruction of the family unit, startling decline in marriage, massive increase in bastardy/illegitimacy BUT with a robust and growing Family Court system. People respond to the incentives:

- if a woman can get cash for getting pregnant by a "cool" jackass as opposed to the not-so-cool responsible guy and is able to avoid the harshest of economic consequences, guess what she does ??? (see any ghetto USA)

-if a delinquent gets as much or more sex from women than a responsible guy, guess what boys will aspire to be ? (see any ghetto USA)

let the woman ( and her family) who screws up i.e. getting impregnated by an ass - deal with the screw up --- that will be a poignant lesson to other females...

do not set up an extortionate apparatus to pry a man from his earnings - the object of which is the so called bad guys, but eventually devolves into being a revenue generator for government which ends up attacking responsible men as fodder.
-(see USA)

....the children, the children, what about the children ?? you cry ???..... their mothers and extended family will tend to them as has been done for centuries in cases of Bastardy/Illegitimacy.... - most certainly they wont enjoy the same level of economic stability as if the father where around, but that's the whole point isn't it ?????

 

[kdolo]

Kdolo I agree with much of your post however the reason for enforcement laws are just that. Enforcing something that should happen through agreement with the people involved. Unfortunately many guys once they no longer get to pet the pussy don't want to feed the kittens. On the other side of the equation are the pussies that deny access to said kittens just because they can. When the parents don't support the kids the taxpayer ends up paying. No easy answer......{QUOTE]

There is an easy answer. My sisters learned it from their mother, she and her sisters learned it from my grandmother etc., etc.

1. Do NOT have sex with men who are of low character and irresponsible.
2. If you do, use condoms etc.
3. see #1.

Has not rule #1 been one of the foundational rules of human civilization since.....forever. Its interesting , that when this rule was followed and enforced by primarily culture and religion ( NOT COURTS), that incidents of Bastardy/Illegitimacy where extremely low.

Where and when bastards and their mothers can expect nothing from the "fathers", I suspect that rates of bastardy will stay even or decrease compared to a regime where the mother can actually get money via state enforced theft.

if you think bastardy/illegitimacy is a problem in the DR now, can you imagine what it will be when the hellish system of USA style family Court makes itself truly felt ????

 

[bob saunders]

Kdolo I agree with much of your post however the reason for enforcement laws are just that. Enforcing something that should happen through agreement with the people involved. Unfortunately many guys once they no longer get to pet the pussy don't want to feed the kittens. On the other side of the equation are the pussies that deny access to said kittens just because they can. When the parents don't support the kids the taxpayer ends up paying. No easy answer......{QUOTE]
.
There is an easy answer. My sisters learned it from their mother, she and her sisters learned it from my grandmother etc., etc.

1. Do NOT have sex with men who are of low character and irresponsible.
2. If you do, use condoms etc.
3. see #1.

Has not rule #1 been one of the foundational rules of human civilization since.....forever. Its interesting , that when this rule was followed and enforced by primarily culture and religion ( NOT COURTS), that incidents of Bastardy/Illegitimacy where extremely low.

Where and when bastards and their mothers can expect nothing from the "fathers", I suspect that rates of bastardy will stay even or decrease compared to a regime where the mother can actually get money via state enforced theft.

if you think bastardy/illegitimacy is a problem in the DR now, can you imagine what it will be when the hellish system of USA style family Court makes itself truly felt ????

Many of both sexes have though they have fallen in love/lust with a goddess or god. It can take years for the shine to wear off and people are often reluctance to admit that they made a mistake. Condoms break. The breakdown of the family is only partially responsible for all the pregnant women, and divorce rate. Women here do expect something from the fathers. All I can tell you is based on what I see with 600 kids being delivered and picked up from the school is that there are lots of caring super dads in the DR

 

[Gitana-]

Kdolo:

I taught my daughter to cerrar las patas, not open up her legs to any jerk. I also taught my sons that if they make a baby they MUST be responsible and take care of that baby, both financially and as fathers.

Unfortunately not everybody teaches their children that way, or not every children learns it. What you are endorsing is a system where only your wife's children are yours and only while she is your wife? It's definitely a better system... for men. Specially for men who want out of their responsibility. It's the same as the argument that women were better before, when they didn't have to work outside of the home. Go tell that to my childhood neighbor who barely survived her husband's abuses because she had no other choice. Tell her it was a better system. It's the same general idea.

Yes it is a good thing that the courts are enforcing fathers to financially support THEIR children. Are they taking it too far? Maybe. I have no experiences to form an opinion about that part. But what's the alternative? to have a lot of children living in abject poverty while their brothers and sisters and father live a life of luxury just because their father got tired of the mother?

I beg to differ.

In a perfect world every man would be responsible and there would be no need for the courts to enforce anything. It's not a perfect world.

Sorry for encouraging the off-topic debate. Couldn't "shut up my mouth" about this. As much as I tried.

 

[Givadogahome]

You are missing the point, fathers are losing rights (or have infact lost thier rights) based on this new orden de violencia, any woman can now have any father locked up as she so wishes, without question.
a woman can go and make an orden without any evidence what so ever!

 

[Gitana-]

Child maintenance order or Orden de violencia? The latter sounds like a protection order. What does it have to do with child maintenance or child support? Are they the same thing?

I am confused.

 

[Givadogahome]

Child maintenance order or Orden de violencia? The latter sounds like a protection order. What does it have to do with child maintenance or child support? Are they the same thing?

I am confused.

No, you're not confused, the 'Orden de violencia' is the new tool women are using to do whatever it is that they wish, under any terms they wish and their lawyers are abusing it into what will eventually become a woman's worst nightmare. It is what we in the civilized world know as a restraining order, but it works slightly differently. After someone of significance, high profiel gets one and fights it and proves the woman was lying, the whole movement to protect woman will fall down around them, and they will be back to square one, being killed daily abused daily, in abusive relationships and no one giving a toss.
Woman are not making maintenance claims any more, they go directly for the jugular and land an 'orden de violencia' on the guy which lands him in jail, and he is not released until he agrees and acts on her demands. He is not required to make a plea, he is not investigated unless he goes public, he simply either pays or he goes to jail for a minimum of 3 months and maximum of 15 years. There is a whole courthouse and jailhouse dedicated to just this, dealing with only this matter 'orden de violencia' on Calle Pto Rico, it's crazy.

As I said this will bite back when it goes full circle and woman are not taken seriously any more, so watch this space, but if you have an angry ex, or existing partner watch from outside the country, the appeal men used to find is slowly going sour and it is unsafe to trust anyone. Even mongers are getting hit up. Don't pay what the whore wants? Fine, go to jail. Look at her the wrong way? Fine, go to jail. Got a nice sofa she wants? Easy, go to jail, it's hers, it's all hers and a man has no rights on this at all.

 

[Big Dan]

No, you're not confused, the 'Orden de violencia' is the new tool women are using to do whatever it is that they wish, under any terms they wish and their lawyers are abusing it into what will eventually become a woman's worst nightmare. It is what we in the civilized world know as a restraining order, but it works slightly differently. After someone of significance, high profiel gets one and fights it and proves the woman was lying, the whole movement to protect woman will fall down around them, and they will be back to square one, being killed daily abused daily, in abusive relationships and no one giving a toss.
Woman are not making maintenance claims any more, they go directly for the jugular and land an 'orden de violencia' on the guy which lands him in jail, and he is not released until he agrees and acts on her demands. He is not required to make a plea, he is not investigated unless he goes public, he simply either pays or he goes to jail for a minimum of 3 months and maximum of 15 years. There is a whole courthouse and jailhouse dedicated to just this, dealing with only this matter 'orden de violencia' on Calle Pto Rico, it's crazy.

As I said this will bite back when it goes full circle and woman are not taken seriously any more, so watch this space, but if you have an angry ex, or existing partner watch from outside the country, the appeal men used to find is slowly going sour and it is unsafe to trust anyone. Even mongers are getting hit up. Don't pay what the whore wants? Fine, go to jail. Look at her the wrong way? Fine, go to jail. Got a nice sofa she wants? Easy, go to jail, it's hers, it's all hers and a man has no rights on this at all.

Rule number 1: Don't sleep with women of low character.

 

[Givadogahome]

Rule number 1: Don't sleep with women of low character.

I agree, but poor argument in this case. It isn't only women of low character who get bitter during a relationship breakdown.

 

[Aguaita29]

Unfortunately some women use protection orders as a tool to punish their partners, but over time they lose credibility and they are known as the lady who cries wolf.

There are also cases in which the guy is actually really beating the woman, she asks for an order de alejamiento, then she goes back and asks for the order to be taken back. This goes back and forth, she breaks up with the guy and then takes him back, breaks up with him, and one day he kills her.

Sometimes the woman has an active order in her favor, she gets back together with the guy and doesn`t tell the Fiscal?a. If they argue, she goes to the Fiscal?a and tells the Fiscal that the guy violated the order. She doesn`t explain that they`ve been back living together under the same roof all this time.

When the truth comes out, this makes people doubt her and her intentions. Sometimes this makes it look that the guy is not such a threat and that she just wants her to give him a hard time.

Then the guy kills the woman all that is heard in the news is that the woman had a protection order and that the Dominican Justice system ignored her.
Of course, no one deserves to die, but sometimes women really toy with these things. Some ladies ask for a protection order and then they contact the agressor or show up where they know he`ll be.

Even your own family members and friends get confused in these situations.

 

[drescape24]

What never ceases to amaze me is the number of statists/communists/fascists from the "developed" world who come to the DR.

They flee the overbearing and intrusive police-state- like societies they come from only to encourage the growth and transplant of such oppressive apparatus here in the DR. Why do they hate DR so much ????? Why do they hate themselves so much ????

Maintenance of a child is an issue that should remain exclusively between the Mother and the Father ( and their families).
Government/Courts should have next to no role to play. Confiscating a man's salary is slavery. Ordering a man to prison because he cannot pay or won't is tyranny. We abolished Debtor's prisons a long time ago.

It is only a matter of time, because of many of you idiots, that DR becomes the disaster that the US has become with regard to this issue.

Oppressive government will expand once it figures out it has a new potential revenue source,
Women will become even more reckless and irresponsible with whom they procreate since they perceive that their bad judgment can be fixed by 'Daddy Government.'
Eventually, like in the US, normal hardworking guys will end up in the meat grinder: the result ?
-Destruction/poisoning of male/female relations, corsening of female outlook: man as wallet only

The child support regime in the US is a direct contributor to the breakdown of the family structure in the US and the degradation of male/female relations - a big reason why many men refuse to even date/marry in the US - and you people want to transplant that here.

I couldn't agree more! You hit the nail on the head. What most people don't know is with treaties being signed in the Haig in regards to childrens wellness, a man can be taken in court in another country and an that court desicion enforsed in their home country.
Before everyone says that would never happen because of due process and other constitutional rights. Sit back and listen how The American government enforced child support on when when my German wife took me to court in Germany while not telling me were the kids were, or having any contact at all. Let alone allowing the children to see their American family.
The judge in Ocean County New Jersey was very rude, short, and basically said pay the rears or go to jail. My lawyer ( international, and a professor at Princton) said you have a case, but it could go to state supreme court or higher. So enough of my rant. The system is broke and to have that mentallity in The D.R. would be a train wreck. But a man needs to be a man and provide for his children, and women need to stop using children as leverage!

 

[kdolo]

Kdolo:

Unfortunately not everybody teaches their children that way, or not every children learns it. What you are endorsing is a system where only your wife's children are yours and only while she is your wife? It's definitely a better system... for men. Specially for men who want out of their responsibility.

Yes it is a good thing that the courts are enforcing fathers to financially support THEIR children. Are they taking it too far? But what's the alternative? to have a lot of children living in abject poverty while their brothers and sisters and father live a life of luxury just because their father got tired of the mother?

In a perfect world every man would be responsible and there would be no need for the courts to enforce anything. It's not a perfect world."[Gitana]

1. Not every body teaches their child that way ?? Actually, until recently in Western societies, people did exactly this with great success - very low Bastardy/Illegitimacy ..... and then came along Family Courts which encouraged/incentivized women to absolve themselves of the responsibility of making better decisions.

2. The only men who do not want responsibility for their children tend to be men of low character - the type pf men that women should not be procreating with to begin with.........under my system, these men will never get to procreate ( no where near to what is happening now)

3.It is a vary BAD thing for Courts to intervene in between male/female relations. The woman is essentially asking the state to do what she should have been doing for herself and correcting her bad judgment. This will only encourage more bad decision making.

4. The alternative ??? What is has always been. The woman raises her bastard with the help of her family....of course not at the same standard as if the father were present, but that's the whole point !.

Furthermore, no man (few) of character abandons his kids and has the others living in luxury merely because he is tired of the mother. The old timers addressed these situations before:

-1. raise woman with the proper judgment or protect them from their own weak judgment.
-2. made it very clear to unproductive and antisocial men that no sex would be available for them.
-3. raise women to be pleasant, feminine, and good home makers and wives so that even when past their time of physical attractiveness, their man would not leave them.

no need to reinvent the wheel

 

[kdolo]

I'm enjoying your posts; but I'd like some advice on how us men can protect ourselves from the sharks. The system is corrupt and likely always will be, but I think the solution is for individual men(and women) to protect themselves. I really want to have/raise a child one day but I want to do it on my terms not the terms of the government or mother. My biggest concern is the mother running off with the child while still pursuing me for child support, in other words I get to shell out money without the joys of raising the kid. That is a worse case scenario I'd like to avoid......so how do I do it?

You want to marry/have kids ?? Well for any man worth his salt, the USA is out of the question.

DR would have been a decent choice, but apparently, the same statist/communists/fascists who have destroyed the family system in the US are intent on transplanting the same system in the DR. So it looks like DR is ruined - or soon to be anyway - (give it 5 years).

find somewhere else where the nonsense has yet to take hold: try going further south if you like the Latin vibe.

 

[Givadogahome]

I'm enjoying your posts; but I'd like some advice on how us men can protect ourselves from the sharks. The system is corrupt and likely always will be, but I think the solution is for individual men(and women) to protect themselves. I really want to have/raise a child one day but I want to do it on my terms not the terms of the government or mother. My biggest concern is the mother running off with the child while still pursuing me for child support, in other words I get to shell out money without the joys of raising the kid. That is a worse case scenario I'd like to avoid......so how do I do it?

In short, you can't, men now have no rights here. I was talking with one of the top dogs in the ministry for the protection of women and children yesterday at the interior police headquarters and she told me outright, there is nothing to protect men, it's that simple. If you suspect something, leave!

 

[dv8]

to answer the OP question: i talked to our maid today, she recently asked the father of her daughter for more money. she appealed to the fiscal, they summoned the guy. he drives carro publico. used to pay 1000 pesos, now it will be 1500 pesos a month. not much of a difference but always something...