Flipped Schools

[Lobo Tropical]

Dominican parents, which usually just means the "Mami" of the house, really don't want their kids to get a good education!!!!
If the kids do, they might move away, or even leave the country!
These "Mami's" want their kids to do just like they did!!!
Especially their daughters.
Which is, get no education at school, get pregnant as a "Teen", then live with her kids in Mami's "Hovel ".
THAT is a Dominican Mothers "Sueno"!
Hard to overcome that culture!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

Some people may think this is sarcasm, sadly it's the truth of the lower class.
By age 18-20 the girls have a level of education of grade 3-4.
Often these girls have been taken out of school to move in with a man at age 16-17, in hope of someone to take care of her and pay the bill.
Frequently the girls are kicked out after a while, with the clothes on their back. I have met many who at age 21 have three kids from three different fathers and are living in the caba?a or a hovel with mum.
When you push them to take night classes 4x a week they miss many of them.
They simply do not have the intellect to understand the importance and independence that education can give them.
Instead they search for a man who will pay the bill.
Computers are used for YouTube movies and music not as tool to study.
I may be wrong, but I think also many of the well educated women still prefer a traditional life style as wife and mother in the house.
On the converse our career and rat race lifestyle also has it's draw backs.

 

[the gorgon]

I see Dominicans reading the newspapers everyday and lots of Dominicans I know read, but perhaps they are the exception.

bob, i know Dominicans that read, too. i just do not see too many of them doing it.

 

[the gorgon]

Some people may think this is sarcasm, sadly it's the truth of the lower class.
By age 18-20 the girls have a level of education of grade 3-4.
Often these girls have been taken out of school to move in with a man at age 16-17, in hope of someone to take care of her and pay the bill.
Frequently the girls are kicked out after a while, with the clothes on their back. I have met many who at age 21 have three kids from three different fathers and are living in the caba?a or a hovel with mum.
When you push them to take night classes 4x a week they miss many of them.
They simply do not have the intellect to understand the importance and independence that education can give them.
Instead they search for a man who will pay the bill.
Computers are used for YouTube movies and music not as tool to study.
I may be wrong, but I think also many of the well educated women still prefer a traditional life style as wife and mother in the house.
On the converse our career and rat race lifestyle also has it's draw backs.

Lobo, you are 100% on the money. school in this country is day care, so Belkis can watch her novelas without fighting Yuberkis for the remote

 

[windeguy]

You are probably spot on. In the One Laptop Per Child program, the US government bought 8,080 XO computers for donation to Iraq. They never reached the children's hands. Half were auctioned off to a businessman in Basra for $10.88 each and the other half are unaccounted for, according to the NY Times, Sept. 24, 2010.

I imagine the same happened here.

Lindsey

Perhaps PICHARDO can illuminate us on what happened to the laptops?

 

[LindseyKaufman]

Some people may think this is sarcasm, sadly it's the truth of the lower class.
By age 18-20 the girls have a level of education of grade 3-4.
Often these girls have been taken out of school to move in with a man at age 16-17, in hope of someone to take care of her and pay the bill.
Frequently the girls are kicked out after a while, with the clothes on their back. I have met many who at age 21 have three kids from three different fathers and are living in the caba?a or a hovel with mum.
When you push them to take night classes 4x a week they miss many of them.
They simply do not have the intellect to understand the importance and independence that education can give them.
Instead they search for a man who will pay the bill.
Computers are used for YouTube movies and music not as tool to study.
I may be wrong, but I think also many of the well educated women still prefer a traditional life style as wife and mother in the house.
On the converse our career and rat race lifestyle also has it's draw backs.

Interesting. I believe it may be a viscous circle. Inadequate education system results in families not valuing education. If they don't value education, the system will not be pressured to improve.

Yet, on some level, I do see citizens taking action against the education system, pressuring it to invest more funds and efforts towards improvement. Could it actually be that the powers themselves do not value education enough to make it a financing priority? And if it is not a priority at the top, how could it be to a struggling family in the barrio?

Lindsey

 

[bob saunders]

Some people may think this is sarcasm, sadly it's the truth of the lower class.
By age 18-20 the girls have a level of education of grade 3-4.
Often these girls have been taken out of school to move in with a man at age 16-17, in hope of someone to take care of her and pay the bill.
Frequently the girls are kicked out after a while, with the clothes on their back. I have met many who at age 21 have three kids from three different fathers and are living in the caba?a or a hovel with mum.
When you push them to take night classes 4x a week they miss many of them.
They simply do not have the intellect to understand the importance and independence that education can give them.
Instead they search for a man who will pay the bill.
Computers are used for YouTube movies and music not as tool to study.
I may be wrong, but I think also many of the well educated women still prefer a traditional life style as wife and mother in the house.
On the converse our career and rat race lifestyle also has it's draw backs.

I think that may be true on the lower end of the lower class. My wife has some of those people as family. She has tried helping them to see the value in education but they would rather just screw and drink rum. She no longer even tries to help them. She also has those in her family that are the opposite. She has an Aunt that is a teacher, lawyer, and doctor and she achieved all that in Houston Texas, She has a cousin that is in charge of Shell oil in UAE...etc. All of them were poor as church mice and had parents that were under-educated, mainly due to lack of opportunity.
Many, many Dominicans want their children to be well educated.

 

[LindseyKaufman]

I think that may be true on the lower end of the lower class. My wife has some of those people as family. She has tried helping them to see the value in education but they would rather just screw and drink rum. She no longer even tries to help them. She also has those in her family that are the opposite. She has an Aunt that is a teacher, lawyer, and doctor and she achieved all that in Houston Texas, She has a cousin that is in charge of Shell oil in UAE...etc. All of them were poor as church mice and had parents that were under-educated, mainly due to lack of opportunity.
Many, many Dominicans want their children to be well educated.

Bob, are the success stories the exception more than the rule? I think your wife has a very special family.

I work with poor kids who have high aspirations for success- not for money, but to help others. It breaks my heart to hear them speak of their dreams of being an airplane pilot, a doctor, or a lawyer, as I know the reality of the situation. And do I encourage them, knowing they would be better off playing the lottery, or do I just nod my head and let it go?

Lindsey

 

[the gorgon]

Bob, are the success stories the exception more than the rule? I think your wife has a very special family.

I work with poor kids who have high aspirations for success- not for money, but to help others. It breaks my heart to hear them speak of their dreams of being an airplane pilot, a doctor, or a lawyer, as I know the reality of the situation. And do I encourage them, knowing they would be better off playing the lottery, or do I just nod my head and let it go?

Lindsey

a very special family? you think? we should all be so special. i mean, how many of us have family members that are international leaders, Nobel Prize winners, inventors of the major consumer products used today...etc...etc

 

[bob saunders]

Bob, are the success stories the exception more than the rule? I think your wife has a very special family.

I work with poor kids who have high aspirations for success- not for money, but to help others. It breaks my heart to hear them speak of their dreams of being an airplane pilot, a doctor, or a lawyer, as I know the reality of the situation. And do I encourage them, knowing they would be better off playing the lottery, or do I just nod my head and let it go?

Lindsey

I think you still need to instill in them that the possibility to succeed only exists with education AND EXTREMLY HARD WORK. I think three things are required, Math skills, Spanish Skills, and critical think skills. Obviously it's more complicated than that and there are numerous factors, like having a full belly. You can help them by encouraging to set short term realistic goals, that are achievable. Once they've had success with those, is it unrealistic to believe they can become doctors or lawyers....etc. I don't believe so. I certainly would never discourage a child's dreams.

 

[bob saunders]

a very special family? you think? we should all be so special. i mean, how many of us have family members that are international leaders, Nobel Prize winners, inventors of the major consumer products used today...etc...etc

What's your issue? This is not the off-topic forum so grow up, please.
I happen to think my wife is a special person, and so do her many students that's she's had throughout the years.
Every human is a unique person, even you.

 

[the gorgon]

What's your issue?

no issue, really. i just find it cute that every thread seems to be a vehicle for you to tell us about all the exceptional, different people you have up there in Jarabacoa, and all the accomplishments of the innumerable members of your wife's family. i find it amusing.

 

[bob saunders]

no issue, really. i just find it cute that every thread seems to be a vehicle for you to tell us about all the exceptional, different people you have up there in Jarabacoa, and all the accomplishments of the innumerable members of your wife's family. i find it amusing.

I think you are the only person that feels that way. Jarabacoa is special.

 

[the gorgon]

I think you are the only person that feels that way. Jarabacoa is special.

don't count on it. very many people find it laughable. how many other posters in this site do you see telling us about their wives at every opportunity?

 

[bob saunders]

Reviews of National Policies for Education: Higher Education in the Dominican Republic 2012 | OECD READ edition
An interesting read for those interested in higher education in the DR.

 

[dv8]

They simply do not have the intellect to understand the importance and independence that education can give them.
I may be wrong, but I think also many of the well educated women still prefer a traditional life style as wife and mother in the house.

you are not wrong. have you ever watched dominican women in formal social situation (not family gatherings)? men will talk. women, unless they are seated in the pack and can chirp between each other, will not talk. they just stare glassy eyed into space. they are like vegetables. they have nothing to say. they know nothing. they have no interest. me, i do not miss a chance to learn something new. i always join the conversation, i show interest. they look like real life dolls, pretty looking but empty. if i try to strike a conversation with one of those vegetables they only have one question, whether i have kids. when i say i do not and explain why i never will they are thrown off the mark. they do not know what to say. they are in social blind alley. they turn away from me, i'm an outcast now, they have nothing to tell me.

i observed this among all classes. at times i am aware that women in question have decent education or even jobs requiring a great deal of professionalism. yet they have nothing to say. incredible.

and it's not even that all this is caused by some social standards. no. i frequently meet miesposo's contractors or suppliers. they all complement him on a smart wife who is always so curious and who knows so much. shows that dominican men appreciate smart women who take interest in things.

 

[skynet]

Very interesting info there Gorgon, well done!...What about rewards?? if their thing is facebook etc, perhaps the schools can create projects via FB..It can be anything aimed at the individual student, or maybe as groups called, Blue Team, Red Team, Green Team, etc..That there would spark their interest to not only do their homework, but their normal studies, and to compete against one another would be a huge motivation factor for most..Also, I bet if the DR Education Dept contacted FB, they would be more than happy to help fund things being it would be a huge spin for them..Helping the poor kids for a better education in the DR...Marketing as they do very well, would get lots of attention by doing such a great deed..

As for the Internet, I have no choice but to have their(Claro) phone service as well, overkill!! I don't need it, didn't want it! its an extra 1,000 pesos if not more per Month..That there as of now, would be a major issue for those folks if they received no help..But again, a Social Network like FB in the mix of things?? What expense?? Also, I would start by posting a Youtube Video, get total national awareness of this and I bet the donations come rolling in! Create a website of course first, adding a fund drive meter like a blood drive, and watch it fill...Those are just 2 avenues that I would bet on for help..Keep going! Next? perhaps the DR Government, new President in office right? But I don't know if they have any kind of a Budget for schools here, would look into this and see where it goes...Afterall, POP received some funding for the Edenorte Plant not so long ago, so things that seem to be impossible, are most definitely reachable if you're motivated enough to get the job done! You can also hit Twitter, lots of end users, and lots of celebrities with money! Those Cats will do anything to have their name said..Hell, hit up Angelina Jolie, didn't she adopt a few kids and has donated quite a bit of money to Feed The Kids, whatever the few are called..One gets mentioned for their so called kind deed, others follow..Should somebody do this, let me know, I will post a request to Eddie Van Halen since he replies to my messages often by of course..clearing throat...Face Book..LOL..

All that said, I hope to start an Animal Shelter at some point in my life once I get my finances up to date..Something like the North Shore Animal League in Port Washington NY: Homepage

This place is awsome!! Its actually the first job I had as a Veterinarian Technician (Intern) They do not just hire anyone..Your tested, mostly behavior study tests and a few movies on how they started..I tell ya very sad as I recall..The place at that time maybe still, was owned by a woman. She started out in only a van picking up any strays in the street which She got help from other local shelters and/or donations..So, even as today, that's how they get by. When you adopt a pet, its mandatory that you give a donation.,..Its really a fee to help board their animals, but best to call it a donation...So, as compared to the school , I would do exactly what I suggested above..Hit youtube, Facebook, and Twitter as my starting point, see what happens...I always tell others that procrastinate over something...STOP AND DO IT!! you will never know unless you try, or it will be the WHAT IFS...for the rest of your life..

Just a few thoughts I have right now...


Anthony

 

[the gorgon]

you are not wrong. have you ever watched dominican women in formal social situation (not family gatherings)? men will talk. women, unless they are seated in the pack and can chirp between each other, will not talk. they just stare glassy eyed into space. they are like vegetables. they have nothing to say. they know nothing. they have no interest. me, i do not miss a chance to learn something new. i always join the conversation, i show interest. they look like real life dolls, pretty looking but empty. if i try to strike a conversation with one of those vegetables they only have one question, whether i have kids. when i say i do not and explain why i never will they are thrown off the mark. they do not know what to say. they are in social blind alley. they turn away from me, i'm an outcast now, they have nothing to tell me.

i observed this among all classes. at times i am aware that women in question have decent education or even jobs requiring a great deal of professionalism. yet they have nothing to say. incredible.

and it's not even that all this is caused by some social standards. no. i frequently meet miesposo's contractors or suppliers. they all complement him on a smart wife who is always so curious and who knows so much. shows that dominican men appreciate smart women who take interest in things.

wonderful insights, dv8. if that is the level of intellectual curiosity displayed by those who have had exposure to education, then imagine the conversation when you meet the average Jane;

cuantos ninos tiene?

hembra o baron?

 

[smitty777]

Are you a teacher?

I have talked about the subject for a long long time.

I am writing about the educational problem in DR -and many other countries- an easy solution.

one issue [which is not my main point] is to catch the student attention, to make possible learning intangible, 'dry' material and concepts, which students dont relate to their everyday present and future life

fb and youtube is more interesting to them

I'm not a teacher, but I tried several approaches with high success rates. Technology is key. You tube and khan academy are your best friends. They will pay more attention to that then to a teacher. Even I would learn better with videos then reading a book in some subjects. I'm studying coding and quantum physics. I would go to sleep if I was reading a book about them.
Catching their attention is the hardest part. So much negativity around them in some parts of the country and their parents are not the sharpest individuals. It would be nice if a corporation or group of donors would start a pilot program then expand over the years. I forget the name of the school, but their is a charter school in Philly backed by some tech giants. All the kids will be coders when they graduate and 1 of their students designed an iphone game at the age of 7.
All we can do is try on this island and see what will work.

 

[smitty777]

You have no grasp of poverty Empiric despite your good intentions. First,do you realize internet access is still a luxury in many countries in the world ? Internet cafes can't be classrooms.

Trust me, the problem is not grasping student attention; although, it may be an issue for wealthier countries. There are a variety of reasons and I won't get into them. But I will give you 2 simple examples: How would be your attention span if you had no breakfast (in the best case scenario) OR why would you be interested if you knew you will have to stop sooner than later to either get married or help your parents earn a living ??

This is true. That's why it has to be a joint effort of volunteers and a change in government policies. The Philippines and India are just as poor, but if you go to the states a lot of medical staff are Filipinos and Indian. Their govts actively encourage education and intelligence. The D.R. govt is the biggest problem.

 

[ctrob]

Interesting. I believe it may be a viscous circle. Inadequate education system results in families not valuing education. If they don't value education, the system will not be pressured to improve.

Yet, on some level, I do see citizens taking action against the education system, pressuring it to invest more funds and efforts towards improvement. Could it actually be that the powers themselves do not value education enough to make it a financing priority? And if it is not a priority at the top, how could it be to a struggling family in the barrio?

Lindsey

It may be they don't want to spend the money, or even something worse. They may not want a larger and economically better-off middle class. Why rock the boat? They got what they want and they want to keep it.

As bob says below, Dominicans like parents everywhere want a better future for their kids. But it's difficult to stress education to a kid when there aren't decent jobs to go to once finished with school. Why complete 12th grade just to go sell trinkets below the Carnival Cruise Ship?

Many, many Dominicans want their children to be well educated.

It would take someone coming into power (or the spouse of that person) that could use their bully-pulpit to start a campaign to keep kids in school and at the same time start working on bringing some real jobs to the island. The kids need something to look forward to and foreign investors need a HS educated middle class.