FOX News' solution to the Haitian problem

Mujermaravilla

New member
Jun 15, 2006
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I completely agree.
De facto, DR & Haiti are already considered as a unique entity...
Don?t let culture, race & language fool you.
Problems don?t magically stop at Rivi?re Massacre :)

This kind of thinking is what got those missionaries in trouble. They thought they can just pass from one side to the other.
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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This kind of thinking is what got those missionaries in trouble. They thought they can just pass from one side to the other.
They used to say such things in Europe, for instance, between France & Germany... Those were the days...
 

ctrob

Silver
Nov 9, 2006
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This outrageous proposal is not new, there have been always foreign interest in merging both countries. But what is deeply saddening is to use a humanitarian disaster like the recent earthqauke to support this most absurd initiative. Let me put this straight, we dominicans are the ones who are helping Haiti the most now. . We have different culture, religion, worldview, etc. We became independent from Haiti in 1844! Honestly, Mr. Rodriguez, you should at least apologize to the DR and recant of your most bizarre proposition.

I don't know as much as I would like about the two countries but based on my limited knowledge, I would agree. Merging is probably not the best idea. But it was just an idea. Maybe write the author a letter and educate him. Just a thought.

And you are absolutely correct, the work and services that the Dominican people are freely giving to the Haitian people is highly commendable. Hopefully this is widely reported and remembered by all.
 

DRob

Gold
Aug 15, 2007
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This is a bill clinton proposal from the 90s. It's strictly an ivy league liberal idea.

States rights! STAYTES RAHTS!

Let me guess, you would consider it a personal honor if Sean Hannity impregnated your wife as well?
 

DRob

Gold
Aug 15, 2007
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Look, I've spoken with enough Dominicans to realize that there is just no interest in merging countries.

For a moment, let's ignore the distant past and more recent tension between these two peoples.

Forget about the fact that Haiti has little to offer, as their economy was virtually non-existent and the land has largely been ruined.

Also forget - for a moment - that DR is better off, but only in a relative sense. DR remains a very third world country. Things are better, but there's still widespread and chronic poverty.

The fact is, most Dominicans simply don't care for Haitians. It's deeper than the fact that Haitians take low wage jobs away. They're considered to be ladrones and mentiros of the first order. They're neither trusted nor appreciated in any form.

Is that a fair assessment of Haitians? Of course not. Is that the perception most Dominicans have of them? Unfortunately, yes.

Until this can be addressed and resolved, I wouldn't expect anyone to have any serious discussion about merging anything anytime soon.
 

Gabriela

Bronze
Dec 4, 2003
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Canada already comprises two nations

Definitely, it will happen when Canada and the US become only one country. This is another great idea to look at and talk about it too. I think that the comedy channel, I mean fox should talk about this too. Just an idea worth to discuss.

Switzerland comprises four. Then there is the European Union which bridges many cultures. You could also argue that there is no United States of America--that the civil war never ended. Federalism solves many problems.French culture in Canada enriches us all--though come to think of it, only the Americans seem to have problems with a French Quebec....
 

Naked_Snake

Bronze
Sep 2, 2008
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Switzerland comprises four. Then there is the European Union which bridges many cultures. You could also argue that there is no United States of America--that the civil war never ended. Federalism solves many problems.French culture in Canada enriches us all--though come to think of it, only the Americans seem to have problems with a French Quebec....

Yes, but one thing is to unify two or more countries already on the developed stage, and a very different thing is to attempt the experiment on the so called Third World. If you don't believe this, then please check out the history of the Balkans and the ex-communist bloc in general and see what you will get.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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DRob said:
Also forget - for a moment - that DR is better off, but only in a relative sense. DR remains a very third world country. Things are better, but there's still widespread and chronic poverty.
Only in a relative sense? What is that suppose to mean?

DR's economy is the ninth largest economy out of 19 Spanish speaking American countries and with its high long term growth trend, it will continue to rise among the ranks surprising many along the way. Its larger than economies like Bolivia (care to guess how many DRs fit in Bolivia?), Guatemala (and they have more people than the DR) Paraguay, Puerto Rico (and they are a colony of the US).

On a GDP per capita basis, the average among developing countries is $5,616 yet the DR is above average with $8,672 and rising. That means most developing countries in the world are much poorer than the DR, including countries like Colombia, Thailand, Ecuador, China, Egypt, Guatemala, Bolivia, Indonesia, Philippines, India among many others.

Even the DR's poverty level is lower than average for developing countries in general.

The quality of life of the DR, judging by the UN HDI, falls squarely in the middle when ranked with all countries in the world, and above the middle when limited to developing countries.

If you meant that the DR only 'looks good relative to Haiti and nothing else', then you are quite mistaken.

On the whole, the DR is doing much better than most developing countries, not just Haiti or 'Haiti-like countries.'

Having said that, the DR has reached development practically on its own. The development plans were designed mostly by Dominicans, it was implemented by Dominicans, and the results are credited to Dominicans.

Haiti, on the other hand, has constantly been wanting others to fix their problems. They, as a country, need to take a quick moment to develop what their goals are, come up with a viable plan (there are so many stories of success worldwide with various strategies that finding a solution to Haiti is as easy as it could ever be, they don't have to reinvent the wheel, all they need to do is put the wheels to use), and start implementing.

Hopefully they won't squander this opportunity, because as of right now, they are in a very sweet spot. The world has pardoned their debts and the world is ready to give them more money than Haiti has ever seen in any given year (before the quake their economy produced around $11 billion).

Haiti has won the jackpot, they better put this opportunity arising from this calamity to good use, for the sake of their country, for the sake of their kids, and to not make the 200,000 plus that died in this earthquake deaths in vain.

DRob said:
The fact is, most Dominicans simply don't care for Haitians. It's deeper than the fact that Haitians take low wage jobs away. They're considered to be ladrones and mentiros of the first order. They're neither trusted nor appreciated in any form.

Is that a fair assessment of Haitians? Of course not. Is that the perception most Dominicans have of them? Unfortunately, yes.

Until this can be addressed and resolved, I wouldn't expect anyone to have any serious discussion about merging anything anytime soon.
And what does Haitians think about this crazy idea?

People seem so fixated on Dominicans that they appear to assume that Haitians are simply waiting for Dominicans to give the green light to go ahead with a unification of sorts.

Sorry to dissappoint, but Haitians want a better Haiti, they love Haiti, their one true home is Haiti. Don't take my word for it, go out and have a chat with them.

As in the mergers of real companies, nothing will happen without mutual agreement, and these two 'companies of Hispaniola' disagree with any type of 'merger', its not just a one side thing.
 

Gabriela

Bronze
Dec 4, 2003
629
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Historical inaccuracies

You are rewriting history? Trujillo was installed by the U.S. and the DR has been a client state ever since. Much of the rape of Haiti has occurred under U.S. auspices. Its history is ancient and proud--the first successful slave rebellion in the world (after the Jews, I guess). Much of the subsequent "poverty" of the country can be attributed to racism, not cultural inferiority.

DR's economy is the ninth largest economy out of 19 Spanish speaking American countries and with its high long term growth trend, it will continue to rise among the ranks surprising many along the way. Guatemala, Bolivia, Indonesia, Philippines, India among many others.

Even the DR's poverty level is lower than average for developing countries in general.

The quality of life of the DR, judging by the UN HDI, falls squarely in the middle when ranked with all countries in the world, and above the middle when limited to developing countries.

If you meant that the DR only 'looks good relative to Haiti and nothing else', then you are quite mistaken.

On the whole, the DR is doing much better than most developing countries, not just Haiti or 'Haiti-like countries.'

Having said that, the DR has reached development practically on its own. The development plans were designed mostly by Dominicans, it was implemented by Dominicans, and the results are credited to Dominicans.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,519
3,210
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You are rewriting history? Trujillo was installed by the U.S. and the DR has been a client state ever since. Much of the rape of Haiti has occurred under U.S. auspices. Its history is ancient and proud--the first successful slave rebellion in the world (after the Jews, I guess). Much of the subsequent "poverty" of the country can be attributed to racism, not cultural inferiority.
Okay, I don't recall (and can't find) ever saying anything about culture, so I don't know where that's coming from. If anything, I'm aligned with the Haiti-is-still-salvageable crowd. In fact, the section you quoted has nothing to do with Haiti, but with the DR.

If, however, you're implying that Dominicans are not the reason for the DR's development, then you're mistaken. There are plenty of countries that, to use your words, are 'a client state' of the US and have gone nowhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what has been Haiti's number one trading partner for the past century or so? The USA.

From what country has most of Haiti's small foreign investment come from? The USA.

So what can explain the difference between the development pattern of the 'client state of the US' known as the DR vs, according to you, 'not client state of the US' known as Haiti (despite the US being Haiti's main export/import partner, main foreign aid donor, the origin for most of the remittances, so on and so forth)?

At the end of the day, and while there are many factors, the main reason comes down to decisions, decisions that were made in the Palais National of Haiti that for various reasons were of a different nature from the one's made in the Palacio Nacional of the Dominican Republic.

And if that is not a good comparison, let's look at Haiti's other neighbor named Cuba. They have been given the end of the stick from the US and yet, the Cuban government has made decisions that prevented them from reaching the levels Haiti unfortunately reached.

Another neighbor of Haiti is Jamaica, which being a self-proclaimed black republic has faired much better since independence than Haiti, or Zimbabwe, and this last one became independent in 1980 and with a GDP per capita of US$9 (not a typo) and the most ridiculous inflation rate in the history of mankind, is the poorest country on the planet after its leader decided to shoot themselves in the foot. 20 years ago Zimbabwe was among Africa's richest countries with the brightest and most promising future. Racism? Maybe, but its more likely that its not the main issue here.

My point is that despite the military interventions, the 'racism,' and everything else; the biggest fault on the rise/fall of countries falls on local leaders and the decisions they make.

The first step in fixing what went wrong is recognizing that small, but incredibly crucial fact.
 
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