- Thread starter ltsnyder
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Haitian workers in the DR, and the condition of Haiti . . . is it getting better?
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I can excuse what Nals says since I know many of his positions are not even worthy of comment. What I find even more egregious are the people who are jumping on the bandwagon to give his comments props!
What is more funny to me is that not only does Nals not know about Haitains with any certainty (i.e well other than the two Haitian ladies he hired a few months ago to work him, if he even spoke to them directly), he also doesn't know much about Dominicans Abroad either! There are over 1.2 million Dominicans in the US and he is categorizing everyone based on the actions of 100,000 Dominicans living is Washington Heights (8% of the Dominican population in the US).
Finding Haitians as scapegoats and falsely proclaming their free education in DR etc, are such a cop out. It truly is a pity. But I guess ignorance is bliss.
Here is a statement with no accountability: Some of these discussion on Haitains is like me saying that going to DR is like landing on a field of prostitutes, male hustlers, cuernos/cuernas, and disease men/women who make children irresponsibly and do not support them. These are a people of no moral value that have an open acceptance to destroy the fabric of family. While this is an extreme, this is much of what a tourist may see when they go there. More than 70% of the Dominican population see and live this in some way. Is it not the Dominican reality? I am sure no one wants to hear about Dominicans taking responsibility for Dominican behaviors within their control.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the planck in your own eye?" Luke 6:27
What is more funny to me is that not only does Nals not know about Haitains with any certainty (i.e well other than the two Haitian ladies he hired a few months ago to work him, if he even spoke to them directly), he also doesn't know much about Dominicans Abroad either! There are over 1.2 million Dominicans in the US and he is categorizing everyone based on the actions of 100,000 Dominicans living is Washington Heights (8% of the Dominican population in the US).
Finding Haitians as scapegoats and falsely proclaming their free education in DR etc, are such a cop out. It truly is a pity. But I guess ignorance is bliss.
Here is a statement with no accountability: Some of these discussion on Haitains is like me saying that going to DR is like landing on a field of prostitutes, male hustlers, cuernos/cuernas, and disease men/women who make children irresponsibly and do not support them. These are a people of no moral value that have an open acceptance to destroy the fabric of family. While this is an extreme, this is much of what a tourist may see when they go there. More than 70% of the Dominican population see and live this in some way. Is it not the Dominican reality? I am sure no one wants to hear about Dominicans taking responsibility for Dominican behaviors within their control.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the planck in your own eye?" Luke 6:27
Lesley D said:
The posters on this page of the debate do something to restore one's faith in humanity. As for some of the hateful obscenities on the previous page, I can only agree with Pib, and wish once more that DR1 had a puking smiley.
When the people of Haiti are once more burying thousands of dead as a result of a needless disaster, it is simply incredible that there are some twisted minds among us here who seriously advocate the deliberate killing of Haitians who are only guilty of seeking a better life for themselves and their families.
Shame on you. History has taught you nothing.
When the people of Haiti are once more burying thousands of dead as a result of a needless disaster, it is simply incredible that there are some twisted minds among us here who seriously advocate the deliberate killing of Haitians who are only guilty of seeking a better life for themselves and their families.
Shame on you. History has taught you nothing.
Deelt,
As the discussion unfolds it seems like the radical suggestions by a few are not supported by many DR1 members here (the faith has been restored) and your statement of unaccountability emphasizes my point that people speak without being aware of what they are really saying. I did wonder though if those who are in favor of genocide would feel the same if Dominicans who risk there lives in their rickety "yolas" to reach Puerto Rico for a so-called better life were shot immediately by the coast guards. Is this not the same scenario especially from the view point of Puerto Ricans who feel Dominicans are invading their island. Once again I like your proverb at the end but the Spanish version in my opinion has more impact: uno puede ver la paja en el ojo del vecino y no la viga en su propio.
Always a pleasure Deelt.
-Lesley D
As the discussion unfolds it seems like the radical suggestions by a few are not supported by many DR1 members here (the faith has been restored) and your statement of unaccountability emphasizes my point that people speak without being aware of what they are really saying. I did wonder though if those who are in favor of genocide would feel the same if Dominicans who risk there lives in their rickety "yolas" to reach Puerto Rico for a so-called better life were shot immediately by the coast guards. Is this not the same scenario especially from the view point of Puerto Ricans who feel Dominicans are invading their island. Once again I like your proverb at the end but the Spanish version in my opinion has more impact: uno puede ver la paja en el ojo del vecino y no la viga en su propio.
Always a pleasure Deelt.
-Lesley D
deelt said:
It would be easier, the thing is that the eastern two thirds of the island of Hispaniola is MY COUNTRY and MY HOME!Naufrago said:
Thus, I am not moving and I will defend my country in the most effective (not always the nicest) way possible.
Darwin said once that the fittest specie usually presides over the weaker specie. Dominicans are the weaker species and the Haitians are the fittest. That is obviously on display. The DR was created out of the inhumane treatment the Haitians did to us during their 20 years occupation, why would we just forget that now!
BTW, I am not suggesting genocide, most of you are coveniently taking that assumption. I am suggesting strong border patrol and yes, shot whomever crosses illegally. Sooner or later most Haitians would realize that crossing the border illegal is threatning to their lives and their migrating numbers will plummet, thus lowering the number of folks that will actually be shot. The point is to make the DR as least appealing to the Haitians as possible. And who said they should be shot with bullets! Ever heard of BB Guns or rubber bullets! Non lethal weapons!
Also, look at Israel! Though their situation is a bit different from the DR, but any palestinian that gets within 5 to 10 feet of the wall they are building is prone to get shot. There are even signs warning palestinians that they will get shot. What has happened since such action has taken place? Palestinians are not infiltrating Israel as much as they used to and the number of bombings in Israel have decrease substancially. Well, if it works there and nobody is really forcing Isreal to stop doing that, why would it be different for the DR.
Both, Israel and the DR want to ensure their survival as a nation! Why is it that there are people that don't see that? Oh, I forgot, most people that are on the Haitian side are not even Dominican to begin with! Talk to them about the US opening the border completely to Mexico or Spain opening its border completely to Morocco or England allowing every arab to move there and then they say "oh we can't do that because of X Y and Z" but when it comes to the DR, they say "oh its fine the DR let Haitians invade them" or they say "that is so mean what the DR is going to prohibit Haitians from entering the country" blah blah blah.
If you are not from the DR and you have a thing for the Haitians, please don't even bother with your opinion either here or anywhere!
YOU SHOULD NEVER TELL OTHERS TO DO SOMETHING YOU YOURSELF ARE NOT WILLING TO DO!!
If you are an American that believe opening the Mexican border is a bad idea, if you are a European that believe that letting Arabs move in at will is a bad idea, of you are a Venezuelan who believes that the Colombian border needs to be closed, then don't tell the DR to do the opposite when it comes to its own border situation!
And to answer Lesley question from a previous post, yes, if I get the chance I would be one of those guarding the border shooting the rubber bullets to people that are commiting a crime, which is coming in the DR illegally. If saving the DR takes for me to sell my soul, then that I will do. I prefer to condemn myself for the sake of the future generations of this country rather than being self centered and worrying more about my image while letting the country be destroyed! I am probably the most patriotic person in this country and I will defend it in the most effective way possible.
Oh, common Deelt! Why would it surprise you see people understand at least the main theme in my responses, which is that the DR has a real problem and it needs to be dealt with quickly! Maybe not the way I am suggesting, but it needs to be dealt with, though my way would create results very very quickly.
Deelt, you should just go back to your GOP enclave and keep comming up with strategies of destroying the DR and uniting the island into a full island hell hole. From the Dominican embassy in Paris, to the consulate in NY to our very own government offices here in Santo Domingo, GOP's are trying to impose a plan that would cause for the Dominican sovereignity to be destroyed in the long run and create some form of unified one island nation. That is not only ridiculous, but prone to fail.
I am always surprised how many people stands behind many of these GOP's traitors of the DR, but then again, most people don't know what GOP's are up to until its too late.
You should really stop using the bible, because you are sending yourself into more sin! Afterall, you just pointed out "the speck of sawdust" of myself in this post, while paying no attention to the planck in your own eye, or am I missing something?
Don't tell others to do something you yourself are not willing to do and don't use quotes that contradicts your actions.
It would really help you out in making your debatable points.
deport all haitians, que viva juan pablo duarte
my all respect to nalowhs, you seems smart person and very analytical when come to see situation. nobody seems to understand and see this situation. we are in dangerous to extincted by haitians. the haitians are taking control of all island when this is our island. we lost part of it already by the spanish giving to french.
he haitians want to take control of the island. have you ever talk to a haitians. they believe that DR people are part of them. they think we are the same race. but who them, the haitians five generations or the original DR people.
since the invation of haitians from 1820-1840, this island havent recovered from all the haitians that stayed in DR. also the cocolo that take part of the san pedro and samana. this race might replaced the DR culture and race if we dont reproduce like them.
:nervous: since the DR is not populated by quisqueyano, what we happened if we continue leaving the haitians overpapulated DR illegal and strong birth control rate from haitians. the haitians will genocide the DR people.
for quisqueyanos origen ( spanish and native) stop the loving haitians and support our culture and race.
to my friend
"Who will take on the construction jobs and who would build the houses... who who work the sugar cane fields??? Sure not a dominican!!!"
we can give visa to the people from jivaro native) from venezuela, colombia, mexico, and peru and ecuador to work for construction....etc etc..... these people dont represent a problem to us. the same culture, race , religion, and race, and language. these people are hardworking and humilde. they dont depend from any government. example, these people in USA rahther than all DR people from haitians origions in NYC. que verguenza son estos chopos y chusma. thank to DR people in NYC, every thing that DR people are chopos, uneducated and nasty black people.
to person that say genocide from DR
:devious: it is the haitians that we genocide us if we keep them entering like ants and also we must deport all them. we already have a lot since 1820-1840. and cocolo.
Nal0whs said:
my all respect to nalowhs, you seems smart person and very analytical when come to see situation. nobody seems to understand and see this situation. we are in dangerous to extincted by haitians. the haitians are taking control of all island when this is our island. we lost part of it already by the spanish giving to french. he haitians want to take control of the island. have you ever talk to a haitians. they believe that DR people are part of them. they think we are the same race. but who them, the haitians five generations or the original DR people. since the invation of haitians from 1820-1840, this island havent recovered from all the haitians that stayed in DR. also the cocolo that take part of the san pedro and samana. this race might replaced the DR culture and race if we dont reproduce like them.
:nervous: since the DR is not populated by quisqueyano, what we happened if we continue leaving the haitians overpapulated DR illegal and strong birth control rate from haitians. the haitians will genocide the DR people.
for quisqueyanos origen ( spanish and native) stop the loving haitians and support our culture and race.to my friend
"Who will take on the construction jobs and who would build the houses... who who work the sugar cane fields??? Sure not a dominican!!!"
we can give visa to the people from jivaro native) from venezuela, colombia, mexico, and peru and ecuador to work for construction....etc etc..... these people dont represent a problem to us. the same culture, race , religion, and race, and language. these people are hardworking and humilde. they dont depend from any government. example, these people in USA rahther than all DR people from haitians origions in NYC. que verguenza son estos chopos y chusma. thank to DR people in NYC, every thing that DR people are chopos, uneducated and nasty black people. to person that say genocide from DR
:devious: it is the haitians that we genocide us if we keep them entering like ants and also we must deport all them. we already have a lot since 1820-1840. and cocolo.
Haitian Problem
I feel very sorry about the Haitian Dilemna, their leaders kill and steal from the people, the masses are mad and gun-toting. They have absolutely no tourism. WHO WOULD GO?? Nothing to export and even their carribean brothers like Jamaica don't give a sh*t about them. As long as they stay dirt poor, they will keep crossing the border no matter what!
You can't scare a person who has nothing to LOSE!!
I feel very sorry about the Haitian Dilemna, their leaders kill and steal from the people, the masses are mad and gun-toting. They have absolutely no tourism. WHO WOULD GO?? Nothing to export and even their carribean brothers like Jamaica don't give a sh*t about them. As long as they stay dirt poor, they will keep crossing the border no matter what!
You can't scare a person who has nothing to LOSE!!
guarocuya said:I think that the question should be do you understand what she is talking about?
Haitians are invading every corner and every hole in the Dominican Republic. They are reproducing like flies and with them they bring to the country all of
their misery and we are all gonna go down with their misseries also, if the international communities don't help Haiti. They are wasting their times by donating stuffs like clothes and other goods to them. These goods are not doing much for them, the only people that are benefitting from these donations are the authorities that first come into contacts with these goods which then ends up beeing sold by the Haitians in the streets of Dominican Republic.
They need to send experts to show them how to farm, How to build, how to
appreciate their country, make them understand that if you take a tree down to make carbon, there will not be another one in the future unless you plant another, they need get away from that voodoo s*** , train someone to run the country or assign them an advisor and give thousands of scholarships.
Maybe one of those 1000's will be a great leader.
let it be known that i have nothing against Haitians
and i am not discriminating against them.excellent point, I 100 % agree with you guys. this is not discrimination if not our race and culture are in dangerous. the haitians are invading DR. every corner of DR, there are become strong haitians communities. even santiago, the haitans are doing communities.
:bandit: :bandit: what is funny , nobody sees this situation and our government doesnt bother to do something.
I agreed with you Guarocuya,
but we really cant deport them all because we do need some of these Hatians
to do the the work that some of us won't do ( ie working in the bateyes) since dominicans wont do that type of work.
I think that they should just control their flow into the country just like many industrialized countries do; for example USA and Spain when they need some cheap labor they provide so many visas per years to fill these low positions that Spaniards and Americans would not normally fill whether it is visas for the Mexicans to pick fruits in the west coast, Central Americans to clean or Caribbeans to take care of the young and the old.
I could have taken the time to dissect Guarocuya's post. But it is too much nonsense in such little space. Bah!
Mr_DR said:
Actually, Dominican plantations can invest a little bit in buying farming machinery to cut the sugar cane. Watch Dominicans want to cut sugar then! Imagine the new Dominican sugarcane field scenery! Instead of looking like a slavery system with all these blacks cutting sugar, it will look like the midwestern US with agricultural machines cutting sugar. Plus, its much more efficient that way!
Nals, like Chiri said history has taught you nothing, thus, people who think like you are bound to repeat it.
The only person who is affiliating me to a party is you. Thus, you are the only one trying to contradict my words. You are the one trying to create false positions for me. Thanks but no. I can speak for myself and on this issue I would rather not get involved. It is like talking into a black hole. I would rather conserve my energy for when real action is required not posting on a board as if it was a life and death matter.
Regardless of my personal political beliefs, the current administration is the one that supported the Free Trade Agreement with DR which you are so jolly about. Like I've told you before. Don't bite the hand that feeds you (meaning, DR).
Sorry to disappoint you but I have not committed a sin by quoting the Bible and by stating my HUMANITARIAN position. If my quoting the Bible makes you uncomfortable then that is grounds for self-inspection (yours). I for one recognize, am a sinner since there is no such thing as perfection.
Thus, the appropriateness of my verse stands.
Peace-
The only person who is affiliating me to a party is you. Thus, you are the only one trying to contradict my words. You are the one trying to create false positions for me. Thanks but no. I can speak for myself and on this issue I would rather not get involved. It is like talking into a black hole. I would rather conserve my energy for when real action is required not posting on a board as if it was a life and death matter.
Regardless of my personal political beliefs, the current administration is the one that supported the Free Trade Agreement with DR which you are so jolly about. Like I've told you before. Don't bite the hand that feeds you (meaning, DR).
Sorry to disappoint you but I have not committed a sin by quoting the Bible and by stating my HUMANITARIAN position. If my quoting the Bible makes you uncomfortable then that is grounds for self-inspection (yours). I for one recognize, am a sinner since there is no such thing as perfection.
Thus, the appropriateness of my verse stands.
Peace-
Nal0whs said:
guarocuya said:[...]for quisqueyanos origen ( spanish and native) stop the loving haitians and support our culture and race.
to my friend
"Who will take on the construction jobs and who would build the houses... who who work the sugar cane fields??? Sure not a dominican!!!"
***********
We write the year 2004 and not 1933! And - let me add this - there is a little hope mankind learned something from the errors of the past. Or maybe not?
Sad to read this mental poison. You really want to set things on fire - don't you?
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Ricardo900 said:
Right! Security is made by bringing trade and benefits to your neighbors. Satisfied people don't rob. Trade has always opened doors. That's the basic reason why developed nations INVEST in the development of poor nations. It's not pity but to avoid a rising problem with their own security.
I'm sorry and with all politeness... You are talking with a mindset from about 150-200 years ago.Mr_DR said:
I'm really becoming upset now! You need other people to do work yourself don't like to do. Heck! Why don't you propose to return to slavery!? Eh? Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Grab some decent school books and read a little bit about history. It's really disgusting!!!
Based on that quote from above which deelt made on previously, I thought that Deelt was done with me.
Thus, I posted something else (the GOP thing, which is based on a few evidence my sources have found out for me and coupled that with a few DR1ers who have also been "witness" to such threat to DR sovereignity from GOP members.)
However that was not my purpose to posting that GOP thing about Deelt. I just wanted to see if she stands by her words. Obviously, what I say has an impact on her and/or an impact on what she believes her image is on this web source.
Aparently, Deelt does believe that my positions are worthy of comment, otherwise why response to my last post in the way Deelt did?
deelt said:
BTW, your bible quotes don't make me uncomfortable at all. Every human that has done the ultimate sacrifice for the "freedom" that exist in this world are burning in hail right now.
Afterall, isn't killing one of the biggest contradiction to the commandments?
So please Deelt, leave the bible out of this. Afterall, the reason why you have freedom of speach, democracy, and freedom overall is because some people decided to do some of the nasty things that needed to get done (and in the process condemn their soul) for the sake of future generations.
If all those humans that fought for democracy and freedom would have applied the bible's principles into their day to day living, there would be no democracy or freedom to speak of today!
So, please leave God and the Bible out of this simply because the condemnation of a few have "saved" the many.
Nal0whs said:
You seriously need to check your logic.
All those lives that were forcefully terminated in the name of freedom or other superior goals were sacrificed because some leaders sought more power. All these revolutions did not solve anything. When people today in some parts of the world live better than in the past it is due to contiguous development and because people have learned something out of history and the errors made by mislead prior generations.
Grab a few thousand pages of history books about European history and start reading beginning with the medieval crucades up to the latest revolution that happened on 11/09/1989 in Germany. See something? No bullets, no tanks, no violence... Why? Maybe people have learned something...
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