Help me understand

[J D Sauser]

One way to test JD's theory, korejdk, would be to transpose your scenario from a tourist town to the campo, to a young woman brought up with strong spiritual values but from an economically poor family. Self worth in such a family comes from strong beliefs. ...

That's exactly what I just about stop short of saying... but meant to suggest.
Thank you Ma'm for clearing it up.

I know, one should never say never, but I'd say that I would, for all the above reasons (try to) "never" get involved with a woman from some of these overly touristy places. Even though I believe to know some very tempting exceptions, after better knowing them, even if they are clearly "clean" (non professional), I still seem to see some misconceptions and wrong expectancies shine thru their "white" veil of "angelness" (I know it's not a real word, but I trust y'all get the meaning). This is, in my opinion, indeed less likely to be an issue with people from the "campo" or cities less exposed to what Lambada so nicely labels a sexplotation.



... J-D.

 

[J D Sauser]

Come to think of it... it all may look as it was all the (Dominican) women's fault again.
So, let me just add this to in the effort to further try to clarify my opinion(s): IF I was a Dominican woman, I would definitely try to stay clear from most men in the mentioned regions. Actually, I would NOT date at all in towns like these. This may indeed sound discriminative of the few good men which certainly will also populate these towns and regions and also not prove to be a fool prove method, but for the sake of the low probabilities, this would be my policy. But then, I am not a woman, so I am talking about things I will never really get to understand, now am I.


... J-D.

 

[korejdk]

Come to think of it... it all may look as it was all the (Dominican) women's fault again.
So, let me just add this to in the effort to further try to clarify my opinion(s): IF I was a Dominican woman, I would definitely try to stay clear from most men in the mentioned regions. Actually, I would NOT date at all in towns like these. This may indeed sound discriminative of the few good men which certainly will also populate these towns and regions and also not prove to be a fool prove method, but for the sake of the low probabilities, this would be my policy. But then, I am not a woman, so I am talking about things I will never really get to understand, now am I.


... J-D.

Although you have a valid(s) point of view I kind of disagree...life comes at you fast and at times best things come in unexpected places...coming back the the DR thingy...again, I agree that 98% of the "population" in the places that you mentioned are more prone to touch the apple than in other regions of the DR, yet granted, yours truly has always been an optimist. I grew up behind the Iron Curtain and starting at about 12 or so my constantly skipped school to be around the westerners and by 14 I was making more then my mom & dad combined ( buying and selling black market stuff like fags, jeans, sneakers chocolate - you name it ), and yes, I did took advantage of the tourists yet I have never expected anything, I always negotiated a price. And yes, every country behind the Iron Curtain did have their fair share of chicas, but what's different in the DR is their sense of "entitlement"...I mean all these "I need money for this emergency" stuff that happened to most gringos...do they just think "let's go fishing" and let's hope for the best ? AZB, has any kolumbian chica did that to you ? And then let's be fair - has any of you had a relationship ( not married ) with a poor girl that never asked you for anything ?

 

[Chris]

And then let's be fair - has any of you had a relationship ( not married ) with a poor girl that never asked you for anything ?

Yes, many of the men on the board can tell you that they were never asked for anything. Class will be class.

Now, this thread is going to Mars and Venus!

 

[korejdk]

that's what one would call magic...

 

[coche344]

It is like that

I hear you loud and clear, yet I fail to grasp her logic...whenever I don't understand an ungle I try to place myself in "their" shoes or "their" circumstances, yet my math just cannot add up in this case...I asked my wife to try and explain and she told me " I do not visit mi abuela, only once every 3-4 mths since she is "asking" since we got married.I am at a loss...you got cheating on your gringo husband, yet you have expectations ?!?

I really think it is the culture but not every Dominican is like that.But the ones who are acting like this wont stop it even when they are in other countries.I have met many women and men here in Europe who expect that the others (whoever they are with)pay for them.And if you refuse then they complain.They dont understand why you shouldnt even when they are cheating,lying etc.I stopped asking why it is like that.Live with them as friends but dont give them anything.

 

[Berzin]

Yes, many of the men on the board can tell you that they were never asked for anything.

I've never met a poor dominicana that didn't ask for money or drove me away with pathetic sob stories that over time kept getting more and more pathetic.

But that was because of me, not them. I take responsibility for not caring enough to either leave them alone or see the time they spent with me as purely a transaction and nothing more.

Because that whole "te quiero" nonsense they feed you 5 minutes after meeting you is just that-nonsense.

And I would venture to guess that many of these chicas who are in tourist areas are transitory-they were not born and raised in a place like Sosua.

Sosua attracts women from other places, some from the campos where there is just as large a vacuum of morality as any other place. They don't suddenly lose their sense of morality when exposed to their new environment, I believe they bring that with them.

Way before they ever get to Sosua they hear its' a place that gringos go to pay and play, so it is natural given the sense of exaggeration that encompasses some of the tales about tourists they hear that their expectations are warped.

You can't buy fidelity just like you can't buy integrity. So for the OPs' issue, there isn't anything to understand. You should be asking HIM why he got involved with HER.

Given the circumstances, it is really easy to see where her sense of entitlement comes from, bizarre as it may seem to you.

What I don't see is what your friend got out of the whole thing. How could he not know it would end badly?

 

[lexi]

Am I missing the point?

...please, since I fail to comprehend this...

So there's this dominican lady, she has 4 kids ( 3 kids one dad + one other ) who got married in the DR few years ago or so...the gringo bought a business, and started to take care of her and the two girls who were living with her...classic story, she wasn't content ( U know what I mean ), the business was losing money, and the gringo got fed up and left the DR about 4 months ago or so...since then she's been out in the open with her local novio etc etc...so last week-end I am having a Leonel on the playa with the gringo ( who is regularly visiting the DR but not for her ) and he was talking about it etc etc and later on that day I was talking with her ( please don't ask me the circumstances ) and she was going on and on among the lines:
-why doesn't he want to see me
- why is he not paying for my ninas's school ( he's NOT the father )
- how can I pay for rent ( the local novio lives there )
- he's my husband, he has responsabilities ( yet the novio doesn't )
etc etc
I was playing dumb ( "no se, no se" ) yet how dumb do the Dominicans think that the gringos are ?!? Or is she really that dumb to believe what she's saying ? I mean, my common sense was screaming "R U *&%$ing serious", he has no responsability whatsoever ?!?!?!?!?
I fail to comprehend this, I really do...

Now didn't you say he married her, lived with her for a few years, supported her and "their" family? He got fed up after his business went badly and he took off?

Am I missing this??? I don't care that she had 4 kids by 2 different men before - he married HER and lived with her and obviously made her family his since he was looking after and living with them.

I have seen men who have a business that is doing badly and they usually aren't the easiest people to live with. It is emotionally bankrupting and if he took off and left the DR he obviously couldn't hack it any longer.

Her husband abandoned her when times got tough and I am surprised no one else made a comment about this? If they are still married he should financially support her. If this was in Canada he would have to.

Whether she has a novio now is not the real topic here.

When the going got tough...HE got going!

It's too bad this didn't happen to him in North America as he would be paying whether the ex had a novio or not after he abandoned her. If they are still married he should be coughing up some of that money - which he obviously has if he is still vacationing there only a few months later!

I have NO sympathy for him! A real man would take care of his responsibilities. He just thinks he can get away with it because she is a Dominicano and not a Gringo! Shame on him!

 

[Berzin]

I have NO sympathy for him! A real man would take care of his responsibilities. He just thinks he can get away with it because she is a Dominicano and not a Gringo! Shame on him!

Hmm, you want him to pay for kids that are not his and the woman has a live-in lover that he will also support if he sends money to the family.

This is not Canada or the US, and you bringing up the fact that "this wouldn't happen in Canada-here he would have to pay up!!!" has a self-righteous tone to it.

He did what many do-he took on a beast that he could not tame(a dominicana with several children), he failed at his business and he left when it all fell apart.

She certainly had no problems finding another mate, so now let HIM support the children.

 

[DRob]

Lexi,

I think the OP alluded to the fact that she may have cheated on him by stating "she wasn't content (you know what I mean)."

If that's the case, then I agree that all bets were off. After all, the children weren't his, nothing in the post suggested he had adopted them (and thus assumed any legal responsibility). Further, not only did she publicly have a boyfriend, she let him move in, which is both beyond disrespectful and would result in him losing face if he ever took her back.

Seems as though her actions irrevocably destroyed the marriage and his reputation in that town. That combined with the fact his business failed, leaving seemed to be a reasonable choice, regardless of whether he lived in NA or DR.

Now, if he had adopted the kids (simply marrying the mother does not abrogate the responsibility of the biological fathers), or she didn't cheat on him, my view would be different, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

 

[Moca]

I'm going to get chastised for this one, but the short of it is that the female of the human species is not a logical creature.
To try to understand is ridiculous, and even when a female makes a logical decision, she still reserves the right to change her mind.
One would do a lot better by simply accepting, rather than trying to understand.

Very well put.

Moca

 

[Bronxboy]

Originally Posted by Rocky
I'm going to get chastised for this one, but the short of it is that the female of the human species is not a logical creature.
To try to understand is ridiculous, and even when a female makes a logical decision, she still reserves the right to change her mind.
One would do a lot better by simply accepting, rather than trying to understand


Like my mom says, "women are to meant to be loved NOT understood!!!!"

 

[AZB]

Why is it that people instantly believe that the innocent woman was taken advantage of: she gets pregnant by a man she loved and then he leaves her, thus, she is left alone to care for her own kids.
wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Most likely these women come from dead end ghettos where their moms & aunts were also coming from same circumstances, meaning, kids with various men and no husband anywhere in sight. these little girls start off as little putas (sluts), sleep with any man if not all men in the ghetto. They use no protection, their moms don't care whom they go out with. they usually choose a low life jobless street guy to have babies with. In fact, it seems this is all they want in life, have kids with anyone. They know damn well the guy is unable to support himself so there is no way he can care for his babies. They know the guy is with other girls as well, but non of that matters at the time. These girls make the same mistake with many men and have various kids from various men. No wonder they sleep with tourists on first date.
You think they are innocent? No, they are nothing but your regular barrio putas.
AZB

 

[Chip]

brought up in a (sex) touristy environment

You know, I'm sure a little naive about this but a lightwent on - it is no wonder local Dominicans in the coastal areas see tourists as different if a substantial number just come here for the sex (becasue they aren't "serio"). I say this becasue typically I get treated 150% different by the locals in the tourist areas when I tell them that I'm married to Dominican, we have kids and that we live in Santiago.

Also, what percentage of the tourists would be estimated to be sex derived?

 

[Lapurr]

What those young girls need is education and love...are there not any support groups? Where these young girls can go and get educated, learn about safe sex? how many of these girls have babies with tourists? Do they use these babies as safety nets for potential income?
It's sad, they need to be taught early on about morals and self respect, but they keep hearing stories about the "American Dream" and the Almighty Dollar, they think this is achievable without education...they are sadly misguided.

 

[sascha]

Like my mom says, "women are to meant to be loved NOT understood!!!!"

well said we are complicated creatures with different motives and feelings for everything.

 

[xamaicano]

Why would any gringo come here and marry a woman with 4 kids (from 2 different men) and then take over the responsibility of supporting her, the kids and 2 other (live in) girls? What the hell is the matter with him? there aren't any single dominican women left in that area that he has to settle for a mother of 4????
AZB

Which is why she still think he is stupid enough to keep supporting her.

 

[DRob]

Well, keep in mind that many of the gringos (and gringas) that come looking for love do so because they haven't had very much luck in that department back in their home countries.

Many come down, fall in love with the first person they see, and even when they learn of multiple kids by multiple people, no job or education (or prospects for either), etc., they take the plunge, believing that love conquers all.

It doesn't.

Just as foreigners flock to DR to make the most of their financial advantage (cheap vacation, food, sexual access), the locals tend to take advantage of the fact that said tourist tends to leave their brain (at least the big one) back in their home country.

Everyone's trying to hustle to get what they want. Mongers want sexual conquests with people they otherwise would have no chance with back home. Romantics want to be chased after and courted by young amazingly attractive people. Fine. Some Dominicans have no problem providing those services, just not for free. As a mere tourist, how could you really expect otherwise?

My point? DR is not a true fantasyland. Economic reality did follow you to the island (actually, it was already here, waiting for you). Whether it's friendship, love, sex, whatever, everything comes with a price - just like any other part of a vacation.

 

[Lapurr]

Well, keep in mind that many of the gringos (and gringas) that come looking for love do so because they haven't had very much luck in that department back in their home countries.

You have made some excellent valid points, although I have to comment on your first paragraph, it may be so that they haven't had very much luck in that department back in their home countries, but it also could be they have commitment issues, trust issues or even lack of time..it takes a lot of time and effort to get to that "place" back home.

In this day and age I have noticed your career comes before a(dating) relationship, people want to get established before they settle down. I know what I want in a relationship and that would be someone as equally established and independent as I am.

Where in DR, you don't have to worry about that, you already know what the stakes are, but you also know you have to pay to play!! Given the divorce rates...doesn't seem so bad!

 

[sascha]

i agree with some of the things that have been said in this post but i have to admit that i am appauled sometimes at how tourists (both men and women) act in the DR when they are there strictly to hook up.

i was sitting at a patio on el conde last month when 2 american men (probably in their early 60s) at a table in front of me starting talking about their "prospects" for that evening. they were checking out all the girls hanging out in the park in front of the Catedral Primada de Am?rica and talking like perverted freaks. they were talking about what they wanted to do that night, how they were gonna "slam" a few girls each etc...one of them even went up to a couple of young girls sitting on the bench to make his proposition. im thinking that he got shot down bc he came back (alone) to his buddy and said "one of them is 17 and id totally BLEEP her but they're not into it."

AHHH...its so frustrating. i know this happens in lots of different countries around the world but men like this are disguisting to me. they think that talking about girls/women like this is acceptable but would probably never say anything like what they were saying if they were back home.