Hippo a hero? A major fraud took place

[arturo]

anyone else ever notice...

The two primary rebuttals to debate challenges in the DR are:

1. I am related to very important people.

2. You are black.

Let me just say this....in my family we have two recently retired generals,four colonels, one active general, a major general whose name I am not going to mention either, because he is so close to Hipolito(in job only) that it would be insane to throw his name here, and many younger officers coming up from my family. I am talking about brothers and cousins(not farther)

In addition, my "brother-in-law", not so brother in law because my woman is a live-in girlfriend, was graduated with honors from the academy last year and he is now a lieutenant serving the headquarters of a major ammo warehouse in a vicinity across one of the bridges in Santo Domingo(I will not mention it, except that it is famous for "chicharrones"). He is one of the best young officers coming up and is close to all the officers in his class, all now first and second lieutenants, and he kept me well informed thru cellular calls. They were ready just in case the top brass tried anything funny.

If you still think I am making this up, just read between the lines on comments made by former Colombian president Pastrana regarding events that were prevented with Hipolito's surrender. Just wait a few more days, or perhaps weeks, and this whole thing will unfold. That is, unless it is better for Leonel to keep it quiet to be able to govern better without the scandal being wide open.

And those who think a war was not ready to break out, just look at the parade at the Malecon all day long. It was just a parade, but the same crowds could have started a civil war easily. I can tell you right off hand, that the majority of the men at the Malecon were heavily armed and ready to fight if their celebration would have been thwarted. Just to give you an idea, even between PLD friends celebrating there were shots fired yesterday over simple arguments. People were gun happy. Hippo had no choice.

TW

 

[arturo]

But seriously...

It's true that the crowds on the Malecon and Independencia yesterday did contain many armed men. I am not sure that is an unusual situation. For example, I notice similarly armed people at all large gatherings here. What was unusual was the level of drunkeness. I also could not help but wonder how many people would wake up this morning with raging hangover headaches and major regrets about the 100 peso per gallon fuel they wasted cruising the city with their children dangling from their vehicles.

The two primary rebuttals to debate challenges in the DR are:

1. I am related to very important people.

2. You are black.

 

[KrackedKris]

Maybe yes, Powell NO

I don't doubt most of your comments, but I do question your remark that the US Secretary of State directly intervened

Barring any positive reference, I believe you over extended your hyperbole in an attempt to add credence to the rumors you stated

 

[Ken]

I tend to believe that Hippo didn't give up as willingly as it now seems. Though I think it much better for the country that this myth be maintained.

I was here in 1986, the last time that the PRD was voted out of office. The refused to recognize their defeat until President Reagan offered to send in a contingent of US Marines to guard the ballot boxes during the recount. With that, the PRD acknowledged defeat.

Whether the US Secretary of State was interested enough in the outcome of the 2004 election to intercede, I don't know. But I do know that President Reagan was paying attention in 1986.

 

[Golo100]

You're understating DR's importance

This little mickey-mouse banana republic had its 15 minutes of fame, at least with Colin Powell. While Powell and the state department were trying to save their asses with their Middle East problems, they were also trying to offset the bad news with good news in another potentially big trouble area...South America.

Bush could not afford another trouble spot, specially the most stable democracy in the Caribbean and arguably in Latin America. Any trouble here would have caused a domino earthquake that could have tumbled Bush's Cuban and Venezuelan strategy. The news from Venezuela are going from bad to worse. Chavez spent heavy money in our elections and perhaps might have been trying to cause trouble. Although Chavez' money went to Leonel's campaign, his strategy went beyond helping Leonel. You must remember that former Venezuelan President Carlos Andres Perez conducted an anti-Chavez campaign in DR and Chavez's revenge was to finance Leonel's campaign and come to the aid of Hatuey De Camps, who lost the funding from the Junta Central Electoral when he lost the PRD party presidency, but found fresh cash from Chavez' donation for his anti-PPH campaign.

There was also Cuban influence in our elections, with money and technical help from Fidel Castro, who aided Leonel's campaign in revenge for Hippo's vote against Cuba in the human rights case.

Colin Powell, the state department and Bob Menendez knew this and from here the importance of the Dominican elections. The hispanic vote in the U.S. is very important to Bush. Bush knows full well that the Dominican vote, which is being courted by Hillary Clinton and Kerry was going almost 80% for Leonel and if they allowed Hippo to deny their choice, the U.S. could have been blamed afterwards. as it is always the case. A civil war would be blamed on Bush and tied to the sending of Dominican soldiers to Iraq.

I could go on and on with many more reasons for this strategy. Those who think that smallness is tantamount to ignorance are wrong. The U.S. has intervened twice in DR and has spent important decisions and times in smaller and insignificant nations, like Grenada, to say the least.. Don't underestimate the state department.

TW

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

...Chavez' money went to Leonel's campaign ... There was also Cuban influence in our elections, with money and technical help from Fidel Castro, who aided Leonel's campaign in revenge for Hippo's vote against Cuba in the human rights case.

This is insane and defeats your argument entirely. Were this true, the US would have intervened - but on Hippo's side!

 

[getonwithit]

Golo,

I am interested to know what your connection is with Bochinche.

He actually stated a story very similar to yours, but a day earlier, a little less sensationalist, but more or less the same.
It is possible that it is a bit more credible without the U.S. stuff thrown in - but what do i know?
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=206939#post206939

What amazes me though, is that he actually said we could wait for your assessment. How did he know?

Would it also be true about Peynado's current state of health, do you think?

 

[KrackedKris]

This little mickey-mouse banana republic had its 15 minutes of fame, at least with Colin Powell. While Powell and the state department were trying to save their asses with their Middle East problems, they were also trying to offset the bad news with good news in another potentially big trouble area...South America.

Bush could not afford another trouble spot, specially the most stable democracy in the Caribbean and arguably in Latin America. Any trouble here would have caused a domino earthquake that could have tumbled Bush's Cuban and Venezuelan strategy. The news from Venezuela are going from bad to worse. Chavez spent heavy money in our elections and perhaps might have been trying to cause trouble. Although Chavez' money went to Leonel's campaign, his strategy went beyond helping Leonel. You must remember that former Venezuelan President Carlos Andres Perez conducted an anti-Chavez campaign in DR and Chavez's revenge was to finance Leonel's campaign and come to the aid of Hatuey De Camps, who lost the funding from the Junta Central Electoral when he lost the PRD party presidency, but found fresh cash from Chavez' donation for his anti-PPH campaign.

There was also Cuban influence in our elections, with money and technical help from Fidel Castro, who aided Leonel's campaign in revenge for Hippo's vote against Cuba in the human rights case.

Colin Powell, the state department and Bob Menendez knew this and from here the importance of the Dominican elections. The hispanic vote in the U.S. is very important to Bush. Bush knows full well that the Dominican vote, which is being courted by Hillary Clinton and Kerry was going almost 80% for Leonel and if they allowed Hippo to deny their choice, the U.S. could have been blamed afterwards. as it is always the case. A civil war would be blamed on Bush and tied to the sending of Dominican soldiers to Iraq.

I could go on and on with many more reasons for this strategy. Those who think that smallness is tantamount to ignorance are wrong. The U.S. has intervened twice in DR and has spent important decisions and times in smaller and insignificant nations, like Grenada, to say the least.. Don't underestimate the state department.

TW

I don't undersetimate the State Department. nor do I underestimate your propensity for using conjecture as facts

Provide some verifiable information for your gossip and I will eat my humble pie

 

[Barnabe]

If in Haiti why not in DR?

Of course I don't know anything about all that but I don't understand why Colin Powell wouldn't spend a few minutes calling his embassy in DR to prevent a golpe.

He did more than that in Haiti, didn't he?

Suppose there was a golpe, successfull or unsuccessful, and Bush with los brazos cruzados... How would he justify that?


Barnab?

 

[Chirimoya]

Barnabe, the weakness of the argument is that if the US were to intervene, it would be more likely to support Hippo, not Leonel, for reasons mentioned above.

Getonwithit, for all I know bochinche and Golo are connected, but I read his comment yesterday about waiting for Golo's assessment in a different way, meaning to say he was sure that Golo would also have a lot to say about this. Bochinche's version sounded totally plausible to me. Golo's took it into the realms of grandiose conspiracy theory IMO.

Chiri

 

[Golo100]

Porfirio

There goes your shortness of analysis. The U.S. has absolutely no loyalty to anybody in particular in DR, including Hippo. In fact, Bush and Powell feel they owe nothing to Hippo for his support with Dominican troops. They feel we owe it to them anyway, and that neither Hippo nor Leonel could have denied the troops to the Iraq effort. Leonel indicated once that he would have done the same thing. He knew why.

What is really important to the state department is stability in the Caribbean, regardless of who is in power. They know full well that Hans Hertell is a PPH puppet, but they also know that he is out of a job on August 17 or before, in spite of Hertell's friendship with the Bush clan. The U.S. doesn't want to intervene directly in DR now. They don't need more trouble than they have. We are their small little showcase in the Caribbean and they need to keep us quiet, while the rest of South America is burning. They will make every effort to keep Leonel happy after August 17, knowing Leonel is not their greatest friend. But they also know Leonel knows who is boss.

TW

TW

 

[KrackedKris]

There goes your shortness of analysis. The U.S. has absolutely no loyalty to anybody in particular in DR, including Hippo. In fact, Bush and Powell feel they owe nothing to Hippo for his support with Dominican troops. They feel we owe it to them anyway, and that neither Hippo nor Leonel could have denied the troops to the Iraq effort. Leonel indicated once that he would have done the same thing. He knew why.

What is really important to the state department is stability in the Caribbean, regardless of who is in power. They know full well that Hans Hertell is a PPH puppet, but they also know that he is out of a job on August 17 or before, in spite of Hertell's friendship with the Bush clan. The U.S. doesn't want to intervene directly in DR now. They don't need more trouble than they have. We are their small little showcase in the Caribbean and they need to keep us quiet, while the rest of South America is burning. They will make every effort to keep Leonel happy after August 17, knowing Leonel is not their greatest friend. But they also know Leonel knows who is boss.

TW

TW

Let see; first Colin Powell "orders" the DR to authenticate the elections, now the incoming President is going to expel the US Ambassador???

Weird theories you have my friend

 

[Adrian Bye]

Hey golo - who killed JFK?

 

[arturo]

Who killed JFK???

I know, I know, it was Balaguer on orders from Trujillo who got the authorization via the voodoo of John Foster Dulles!

Hey golo - who killed JFK?

 

[getonwithit]

Come off it. There is no need to ridicule Golo. This will only serve to pee him off and he will disappear again. Much of his post(s) makes sense.

I wish he would answer the question about Peynado though, even if he knows nothing at all about him.

 

[Adrian Bye]

Come off it. There is no need to ridicule Golo. This will only serve to pee him off and he will disappear again. Much of his post(s) makes sense.

Golo makes great posts sometimes, but the conspiracy theories sometimes get a bit much.

Why is it so hard to believe that the DR is not capable of an open and fair election?

 

[Formosano2000]

History repeats itself......

Why is it so hard to believe that the DR is not capable of an open and fair election?

I think the simple answer is: Past records were so miserable that nothing pointed to anything different this time.

 

[trina]

I think the simple answer is: Past records were so miserable that nothing pointed to anything different this time.

You took the words right out of my mouth. When is the last time the DR has had an election where some type of fraud was not involved? I, for one, cannot fathom believing that Hippo fairly won 34% of the vote. Not here, not now, not ever.

 

[samiam]

You took the words right out of my mouth. When is the last time the DR has had an election where some type of fraud was not involved? QUOTE]

Whats the big fuss about?!? Cheating in the elections is like our driving!! It really sucks bad but we always get to where we are going atleast 85% of the time, and that aint bad!!
The bad news:
We never have had 100% clean elections and never will
The good news:
We are cheating less!
The truth:
There will always be something funny going on somewhere and this is true not only for us but for every other country in this hemisphere (maybe not Canada, its too hard to cheat with all the cold going on).

 

[trina]

You took the words right out of my mouth. When is the last time the DR has had an election where some type of fraud was not involved? QUOTE]

Whats the big fuss about?!? Cheating in the elections is like our driving!! It really sucks bad but we always get to where we are going atleast 85% of the time, and that aint bad!!
The bad news:
We never have had 100% clean elections and never will
The good news:
We are cheating less!
The truth:
There will always be something funny going on somewhere and this is true not only for us but for every other country in this hemisphere (maybe not Canada, its too hard to cheat with all the cold going on).

You have the exact same attitude as my husband, it's funny. I can get used to the fact that people lie and cheat, but not to the fact that it's so greatly accepted. Guess that's what happens over time and living in so much corruption.

My husband's attitude towards Hippo's stealing was, "which President hasn't stolen a lot? They go into office so they can steal. It's happened for years, and it's not going to stop." I have a feeling that if there was an honest Presidential candidate, he would never be elected, because too many would be suspicious of his intentions...ie, "he keeps telling the truth, he must be hiding something really big, he's going to be worse than all of them!"