In Support of the High Court Decision

[bronzeallspice]

The deportation is not done in mass.The illegals are held in a special prison and they are deported a few at a time. They have been doing this and are sent over the border.

You still do not understand that they are Haitians and not Dominicans. They falsified documents and passed themselves off as being Dominicans. They do not have Dominican blood.

If a Haitian has one parent who is Dominican then they are entitled to Dominican citizenship
as per the constitution. But this is not the case. There are many Haitians in the DR who have Dominican citizenship because one of their parents are Dominicans. These are Dominican-Haitians.

 

[bronzeallspice]

And that is OK. It's been done for years and no serious organization has ever complained, as long as there is respect for their dignity. Nothing wrong with deporting illegals. If illegals have a baby born in DR, tell them what they are told everywhere else: your baby can stay if you wish, you cannot. As you say, they'll most likely take the baby with them. Problem solved.

Now live all those generations of dominican born alone, and peace will be restored.

I don't think that any parent if being deported would want to leave their children behind at the mercy of the government to do as they wish(who knows what they'll do). The emotional trauma of being separated from their parents would be unbearable.

 

[drstock]

If the parents are deported then surely their children are deported
along with them.

This does not happen now, in fact. A Haitian friend of mine, who was born and lived here all her life, was taken from her home and deported, with no attempt made to take her children, who were with her.

If friends hadn't sent her the money to bribe her way back, God knows what would have happened to the children.

 

[Castle]

I don't think that any parent if being deported would want to leave their children behind at the mercy of the government to do as they wish(who knows what they'll do). The emotional trauma of being separated from their parents would be unbearable.

Exactly.

However, I know some cases of illegal dominican mothers who are not deported immediately from the US just because they have a US born child. The deportation process is so long and complex in these cases, and the mothers get so much support form the same NGOs being despised here now, that when the time comes, the child is already an adult.

 

[bronzeallspice]

This does not happen now, in fact. A Haitian friend of mine, who was born and lived here all her life, was taken from her home and deported, with no attempt made to take her children, who were with her.

If friends hadn't sent her the money to bribe her way back, God knows what would have happened to the children.

I agree.Now that's a big mistake as these children would have been left destitute.

 

[bronzeallspice]

Exactly.

However, I know some cases of illegal dominican mothers who are not deported immediately from the US just because they have a US born child. The deportation process is so long and complex in these cases, and the mothers get so much support form the same NGOs being despised here now, that when the time comes, the child is already an adult.

Yes, as this pertains to US laws but it's not so in the DR. You cannot keep comparing how things are done in the US versus DR because the Constitution and laws are different and as such need to be
respected.

 

[Naked_Snake]

My opinion is that this will just be another one of the many laws here that are created but never enforced, cuz' it fails to address a crucial part of the problem: sanction to the military, construction and agrarian "business people" profiting from this revival of chattel slavery. Impunity is the cancer of this island, and until this root of the problem remains unaddressed, nothing will change, even more when we take into account the fact that people like the Vicini and Fanjul not only have influence here, but with both parties of the US imperial system as well.

 

[mountainannie]

The deportation is not done in mass.The illegals are held in a special prison and they are deported a few at a time. They have been doing this and are sent over the border.

You still do not understand that they are Haitians and not Dominicans. They falsified documents and passed themselves off as being Dominicans. They do not have Dominican blood.

If a Haitian has one parent who is Dominican then they are entitled to Dominican citizenship
as per the constitution. But this is not the case. There are many Haitians in the DR who have Dominican citizenship because one of their parents are Dominicans. These are Dominican-Haitians.

Bronzeallspice.. what exactly is "Dominican Blood" ? Why not call it "Domnican ancestry"? That would make more sense.. or Domnican roots? Seems to me that the Dominicans are descended mostly from immigrants, just like the United Staters.

Also, where is the special prison where the deportees are held? From what I have heard, they are deported with zero paper work. And they are not given any sort of trial or opportunity to even fetch their documentation. I would be pleased to read more about this deporation process.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Bronzeallspice.. what exactly is "Dominican Blood" ? Why not call it "Domnican ancestry"? That would make more sense.. or Domnican roots? Seems to me that the Dominicans are descended mostly from immigrants, just like the United Staters.

Also, where is the special prison where the deportees are held? From what I have heard, they are deported with zero paper work. And they are not given any sort of trial or opportunity to even fetch their documentation. I would be pleased to read more about this deporation process.

There's a compound in Haina that the state has for those purposes, but like all prisons here, conditions are quite unhealthy. You can ask the Jesuit Mario Serrano to give you a detailed description about it.

 

[Gurabo444]

Ok, now if all 100% Haitian babies born in the DR gets automatic citizenship, within a generation DR will turn "black", no? I don't mean to be derogatory, but Haitian women get pregnant all the time, all their life, and they have more kids.

Is not about turning "black", that's what all the NGOs and pro-Haitian crowd promote. The real problem is that with all its faults DR is a country that's trying to get ahead, and with this constant flow of misery from the west it'll never achieved it. If every Haitian in born in DR is given automatic cotizenship then in a few generations the DR won't look any different from Haiti, and I'm not talking about the physical appearance of the people. Another thing is that if the sons of the one million or so illegal Haitians pplus the rest that will come are given citizenship, the within a few generations these people will have political influence and power, trust me once that happens the unification of the island will be a peace of cake. Call me xenophobe but I'm with the OP i don't want DR to disappear, or for my children and grandchildren to become minorities in their own country.

I'm sure foreigners and even Dominicans abroad don't give a crap about the furuture of DR, and that's why they're against all this. But the Dominicans who want to live the rest of their life in DR and form a family don't want the country to become a second Haiti.

 

[Gurabo444]

I just expect all those rich families of foreign origin, namely: Viccini, Hasbun, Sadhala, Bonetti, etc, to show proof that their ancestors came to DR in early 1900s with all their papers in order. I expect them to show proof they were legal residents before their children were born. I sure expect them to leave the country (with their money if they wish) after they fail to show such proof.

It shows that most of you haven't care to even read a little about the TC sentence or about the part of the Dominican constitution where it talks about immigration. First, the sentence doesn't apply to those born before 1929, and most of those families were well establish in DR by that time. Second, even if it did apply to them, most of the descendants of those families have mix with native Dominicans, and once one of their parents is Dominican then he/she is Dominican regardless of their other parents status . So in conclusion, I doubt any of these families will be affected by the Tac ruling.

 

[windeguy]

What if the parents are from two different countries? who decides the child's nationality?. And what if the parents are from a country that does not accept jus sanguini? What if the parents don't have any documents?

We need to protect the children, they are not responsible for what their parents do. Nationality is a human right, it can't be denied. Governments can't blame people for their lack of migration controls.

If the parents are from two different countries then the laws of those two different countries apply.

Is there a country that denies jus sanguini for children born out of a parent's country?

If the parents do not have documents and the country they arrived in does not accept jus soli, then they are out of luck. Not everything in life works out for the best.

Every country has the right to make up its own laws regarding who it does and does not call a citizen.

 

[K-Mel]

I don't know where you guys sometimes take your information but in France there is NOT any restriction on the " Just Soli" or " Droit du sol". The only party who fights this French Tradition is the party led by the racist Punk, affiliated to Nazi thoughts : Jean-Marie Lepen ex-leader of le Front National and his ugly daughter Marine...

Even people born in Mayotte are automatically French ( like people of Guadeloupe or Martinique), hence people from the Comores go there to have children to get that French passport. During colonization people of west Africa ( les 4 communes, of Senegal) were also automatically French.

Many illegal Chinese, Africans ( North, Subsaharans) who have child in France may be kicked out of the country that is true , however with a child in France they most of the times get a temporary resident permit, before getting the 10 yrs residency permit.

If they had just sanguini in France , it could not work out, modern France was built out of immigration: Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish and many more Eastern Europeans ( like Sarkozy's dad...)...but they target the dark ones only because of racism...

 

[K-Mel]

Nationalit? fran?aise - France-Diplomatie-Minist?re des Affaires ?trang?res

All is written in the link above:

"L’acquisition de la nationalit? fran?aise
De plein droit, notamment ? raison de la naissance et de la r?sidence en France
Depuis le 1er septembre 1998, date d’entr?e en vigueur de la loi du 16 mars 1998 relative ? la nationalit?, qui a supprim? le r?gime de la manifestation de volont? institu? par la loi du 22 juillet 1993, tout enfant n? en France de parents ?trangers acquiert la nationalit? fran?aise ? sa majorit? si, ? cette date, il a en France sa r?sidence et s’il a eu sa r?sidence habituelle en France pendant une p?riode continue ou discontinue d’au moins cinq ans, depuis l’?ge de onze ans. Une facult? de d?cliner la nationalit? fran?aise dans les six mois qui pr?c?dent sa majorit? ou dans les douze mois qui la suivent, de m?me que l’acquisition anticip?e par d?claration ? partir de l’?ge de seize ans, sous certaines conditions, sont ?galement pr?vues. Enfin, la nationalit? fran?aise peut ?tre r?clam?e, sous certaines conditions, au nom de l’enfant mineur n? en France de parents ?trangers, ? partir de l’?ge de treize ans et avec son consentement personnel (article 21-11 du code civil )"

 

[Squat]

Nationalit? fran?aise - France-Diplomatie-Minist?re des Affaires ?trang?res

All is written in the link above:

"L’acquisition de la nationalit? fran?aise
De plein droit, notamment ? raison de la naissance et de la r?sidence en France
Depuis le 1er septembre 1998, date d’entr?e en vigueur de la loi du 16 mars 1998 relative ? la nationalit?, qui a supprim? le r?gime de la manifestation de volont? institu? par la loi du 22 juillet 1993, tout enfant n? en France de parents ?trangers acquiert la nationalit? fran?aise ? sa majorit? si, ? cette date, il a en France sa r?sidence et s’il a eu sa r?sidence habituelle en France pendant une p?riode continue ou discontinue d’au moins cinq ans, depuis l’?ge de onze ans. Une facult? de d?cliner la nationalit? fran?aise dans les six mois qui pr?c?dent sa majorit? ou dans les douze mois qui la suivent, de m?me que l’acquisition anticip?e par d?claration ? partir de l’?ge de seize ans, sous certaines conditions, sont ?galement pr?vues. Enfin, la nationalit? fran?aise peut ?tre r?clam?e, sous certaines conditions, au nom de l’enfant mineur n? en France de parents ?trangers, ? partir de l’?ge de treize ans et avec son consentement personnel (article 21-11 du code civil )"

Merci, je ne le savais pas...

 

[JuanDolioLiving]

The question should be how can you provide documentation to someone that doesn't exist, 80% or more of the Haitians that in this country do not have a birth certificate there for the government cannot provide them with documents. What they need to do is go back to Haiti and get their Documents in order and if they want to come back to do it the legal ways. In the USA, CANADA, FRANCE AND ENGLAND if their immigration officers finds you on the street illegal they send you back to your country you expend a least 3 months in jail. Yeah but non of you are asking those country to stop that. Only to the Dominican Republic. Well we are tired of you trying to tell us what to do with the people that comes this country and if you don't like us because with do it then don't come.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's obvious that emotions are running very high on both "sides" of this issue, as indicated by this thread and the numerous other similar ones that are open.

You've all, for the most part, remained civil to each other, let's continue in this same vein please.

It will take time before we know exactly how DR is going to handle all of this. I expect the venting on both sides will continue, and that's healthy for us all.

It's hard for those of us who are married to a Dominican or a Haitian, or ARE Dominican or Haitian - it's bigger than us all.

 

[windeguy]

Nationalit? fran?aise - France-Diplomatie-Minist?re des Affaires ?trang?res

All is written in the link above:

"L’acquisition de la nationalit? fran?aise
De plein droit, notamment ? raison de la naissance et de la r?sidence en France
Depuis le 1er septembre 1998, date d’entr?e en vigueur de la loi du 16 mars 1998 relative ? la nationalit?, qui a supprim? le r?gime de la manifestation de volont? institu? par la loi du 22 juillet 1993, tout enfant n? en France de parents ?trangers acquiert la nationalit? fran?aise ? sa majorit? si, ? cette date, il a en France sa r?sidence et s’il a eu sa r?sidence habituelle en France pendant une p?riode continue ou discontinue d’au moins cinq ans, depuis l’?ge de onze ans. Une facult? de d?cliner la nationalit? fran?aise dans les six mois qui pr?c?dent sa majorit? ou dans les douze mois qui la suivent, de m?me que l’acquisition anticip?e par d?claration ? partir de l’?ge de seize ans, sous certaines conditions, sont ?galement pr?vues. Enfin, la nationalit? fran?aise peut ?tre r?clam?e, sous certaines conditions, au nom de l’enfant mineur n? en France de parents ?trangers, ? partir de l’?ge de treize ans et avec son consentement personnel (article 21-11 du code civil )"

What you quoted shows there are some restrictions to jus solie. It is not quite like the US law where anyone born in the US is automatically a US citizen without further qualification at all. Which as I stated before should be changed in the US. I could care less what the French do.

 

[Naked_Snake]

What you quoted shows there are some restrictions to jus solie. It is not quite like the US law where anyone born in the US is automatically a US citizen without further qualification at all. Which as I stated before should be changed in the US. I could care less what the French do.

In addition to restrictions to further inmigration, I think it's high time for both countries on the island to start considering the enactment of a one-child policy a la China, cuz' the very fact that this island has twice the population of Cuba while having less territory should be alarming in and on itself. There's only so much people the land can take without falling apart.

 

[delite]

In addition to restrictions to further inmigration, I think it's high time for both countries on the island to start considering the enactment of a one-child policy a la China, cuz' the very fact that this island has twice the population of Cuba while having less territory should be alarming in and on itself. There's only so much people the land can take without falling apart.

Well the Chinese have a problem with a larger influx of males than females in their great experiment. The poor fellas are trying to do everything to get the attention of a female. There are lots of examples where the poor fella has to marry down and drink alcohol every night just to copulate. )))))