You do not think that this is a function of the Haitian Embassy here in the DR? What is the function of the Embassys here if not to look out for the interests of the Haitian citizens here?
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In Support of the High Court Decision
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You do not think that this is a function of the Haitian Embassy here in the DR? What is the function of the Embassys here if not to look out for the interests of the Haitian citizens here?
I agree. But since they have recalled the Haitian Ambassador, does that mean the Haitian Embassy is now closed?
well the Haitian Ambassador was actually just recalled for consultation. He was at a meeting here with the Dominican Ambassador and members of the Senate from here and Haiti.. think I posted it. It had not been the breech that some have made it out to be. I think that Haitians realize the DR is trying to solve an ongoing problem.
There was a big ceremony in Haiti where Martelly was giving out identity cards.. and the EU contributed a lot of money to get the people registered for the last election. So I am sure that there will be some international help in this issue if some sort of equitable solution comes up. (and I am pretty sure that there have been consultations with the EU and the US on this issue as they are the major donors to both countries and no one wants to really upset the donors. Plus, of course, they have many moe years experience.. well Europe, especially, with immigration)...
Folks perhaps forget that things were very rough in Haiti BEFORE the earthquake, politically. Maybe you want to blame Leonel but folks were also running away from chaos under the fall of Aristide in 2004, 2004 Haitian coup d'?tat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Peace Corps finally closed its operations there ... not just temporary withdrew but closed. So the blame is not really on Leonel but on the chaos of a coup d'etat.
If things were more advanced here.. there would have been designated "refugees"... but here, well, folks just bribe their way across. It is pretty easy. As has been finding work.
There was a big ceremony in Haiti where Martelly was giving out identity cards.. and the EU contributed a lot of money to get the people registered for the last election. So I am sure that there will be some international help in this issue if some sort of equitable solution comes up. (and I am pretty sure that there have been consultations with the EU and the US on this issue as they are the major donors to both countries and no one wants to really upset the donors. Plus, of course, they have many moe years experience.. well Europe, especially, with immigration)...
Folks perhaps forget that things were very rough in Haiti BEFORE the earthquake, politically. Maybe you want to blame Leonel but folks were also running away from chaos under the fall of Aristide in 2004, 2004 Haitian coup d'?tat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Peace Corps finally closed its operations there ... not just temporary withdrew but closed. So the blame is not really on Leonel but on the chaos of a coup d'etat.
If things were more advanced here.. there would have been designated "refugees"... but here, well, folks just bribe their way across. It is pretty easy. As has been finding work.
You might be inclined to excuse him, but many of us are not willing to leave him off the hook that easily, specially since some semblance of normalcy (as far as Haitian parameters are concerned) was restored with Preval's election and the creation of the MINUSTAH in 2006. Moreover, the regularization program was shelved by Franklin Almeyda (tenderly nicknamed "La Mierda" by a famous radio host here) for SEVEN YEARS under LF's orders. Also, there's the damning declarations of LF himself leaked by the Wikileaks scandal, in which he admitted his cowardice as far as standing up to the slave traders in the military was concerned. If all of these aren't damning evidences of his complicity in this to you, then I don't know what else to tell you.
It's very important to set the record straight on this and many other matters, my friend, cuz' if there's another illness plaguing this island along with impunity is the lack of a historical memory, which allows many a political hack to reinvent him/herself.
I am not disagreeing with you, but the dr system of government closely models the bicameral congress with three equal branches. It is not a bolivarian republic. Mainly cuz bolivar did want them.
The haitian embassy can only issue papers to people who request it......it cannot run thru every corner of DR chasing haitians and forcing papers on them.
That's another thing.......poor Haiti cannot afford all these embassies......just have two consular offices at two official border crossings to handle trans-border issues.
It's a waste of money to staff an entire embassy and pay salaries.
It's a small island...people can drive to the border.
Naked snake, I don't understand your subtext here. can you explain to a mere tourist? what happened in 2004? Who is the real mastermind behind all this, other than the usual suspects of industrialist class? Usually you are direct and unambiguous in your posts.
In 2004 the current ongoing exodus began in earnest, after Aristide was ousted and paramilitaries led by Guy Philippe terrorized the country. The real mastermind behind the court ruling (and the current neo plantation order) is none other than Leonel Fernandez, who was the one to set up that that court to cover his back after he left power last year.
come on? how much more pressure can they bear? ?sic? Mow they have to finesse the fine details of census/citizenship since 4 generations ago? It is ludicrous on its face. Did you not see the collapsed main government building? Could you possibly imagine the pandemonium that would ensue if the dome of the US capital were sitting in the parking lot? The OP clearly states support of the TC ruling. As a renowned expert in constitutional law and international relations...I declare this ruling is as stated by another poster boneheaded. Yes, any sovereign nation can do anything it wants...based on the great man theory of social development. Any other sovereign nation can cry foul with equal authority. It is a stupid and unworkable ruling. Fortunately, as a sophisticated democracy the the executive, legislative and permanent court branches will clean up this mess. Ultimately, the DR will play nice, because it wants a seat at the table of nations, which is by invitation only.
What really needs to stop is the imposition of US binary system of self identification. Why do we americans insist on expanding a system which is proven to be non-functional? Another poster used the term "race card" in a thoughtful post. The ugliness of instutional racism persists in the USA. The not so subtle variety of colorism in the DR also exists in the USA. Demanding that the DR diaspora and in-country must conform to US standards of "self identity" is, at best, paternalistic. I believe it assuages a pain that exists within the subcultures and ethnic communities within the larger US society. Since I am a man of european descent it is often assumed that a full understanding is beyond my grasp.
The pressure to fix the problem on their end. The problem has existed way before the earthquake.
This is nothing new.
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Yeah, but he's right when he mentions the sheer imposibility of enacting the ruling having that date (1929) as its benchmark. If the JCE normally have trouble dealing with late declarations, can you imagine the one they will have if (and this is a pretty mighty IF) this part of the ruling ever gets to be enacted?
What I meant by pressuring the Haitian Gov't was in illegal haitians obtaining documentation in order to legalize their status in the DR. He gave it another meaning totally different than I was referring to.
I was specific in my comment.
An excerpt from a letter sent by doctor Juan Bosch to some Trujillistas intellectuals in 1943 regarding the topic of Haitians in the Republic. The letter implies, based on its contents, that if the dear doctor were alive today, he would've been in opposition to the current ruling in the Tribunal Court.
El Caribe ? Juan Bosch y los haitianos
El Caribe ? Juan Bosch y los haitianos
The international community at this time is too hobbled to do anything meaningful to DR. The DR has too many loans, for it to be punished for it's "bad behavior". The constant provocations with the Haitians taking us to international court and accusing us of racism, with the help of NGHO's, (Robert Kennedy Foundation, shame on you) the interdiction at the border, the increasingly alarming rate of illegal foreigners roaming around at will in the country with mischief as their intent. This is finally waking Dominicans up.
That is island Dominican's, because some of my friends in New York don't care. They actually don't support the ruling. But living here I see it as necessary to protect my Dominican Republic.
One guy said that proof of DR's racism was that they gave the big tooth grin, Spanish Gypsy singer, Diego el Cigala Dominican citizenship. He is one guy, ONE DUDE, internationally known with hundred of thousands of dollars. Maybe 6 people, lets say wife, 2 kids, grandma. Paying their own way.
Like I said, a well known musician immigrating to DR, positive publicity.
To top it all off they are Gypsies a persecuted minority.
But nope that is a racist move by DR.
Now enter:
PALITO DE COCO!!!
Not sure of all the details on this guy, but Haitian coconut candy salesman, also with a big grill. Broke back brother without a dime to his name, "callendose muerto". Is discovered after being recorded singing a sweet little ditty. The media was ABUZZ!!!
The HAITIAN SENSATION!!!!
The dude disappeared at first. He probably thought he was in trouble, or God knows what. They couldn't find him. Which also highlights how all these foreign citizens are basically invisible and need to be accounted for and in my opinion, DEPORTED.
But the point on this one, is that Roman, or Rumai as they are calling him is being treated like royalty.
The brother be black, Haitian and BROKE. But DR is racist, racist, racist, RACISSSSSSSST!!
Castle looooooooves DR, but he also looooves knockin it.
MountainAnnie, loooooooooooves Haitians, but she looooooooves her apartment in Naco even more.......
Let Dominicans, yeah us who been here since 1492, resolve this. WE GOT THIS. All you people makin noise, NYDOMs, BOSTONDOMS, NJDOMs, SPAINDoms, MIADOMs, all you NGO's, no more advice please, just give us the cash.
No more immature little comments, "but look at what USA does, look at what France does, look at ALL the Dominican's in ANTARTICA". Enough mudslinging, we understand what's at stake, our imminent future as ending up as a minority in our land.
Like the Palestinians, like the Serbians in Kosovo, The Rojinga, the Aramaic populations in Arabic countries and the Armenians.
No thank you.
We have been here since 1492, and going strong. You other's you might have been here 5-6-10 yrs.
But we been here for generations and WE GOT THIS.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
That is island Dominican's, because some of my friends in New York don't care. They actually don't support the ruling. But living here I see it as necessary to protect my Dominican Republic.
One guy said that proof of DR's racism was that they gave the big tooth grin, Spanish Gypsy singer, Diego el Cigala Dominican citizenship. He is one guy, ONE DUDE, internationally known with hundred of thousands of dollars. Maybe 6 people, lets say wife, 2 kids, grandma. Paying their own way.
Like I said, a well known musician immigrating to DR, positive publicity.
To top it all off they are Gypsies a persecuted minority.
But nope that is a racist move by DR.
Now enter:
PALITO DE COCO!!!
Not sure of all the details on this guy, but Haitian coconut candy salesman, also with a big grill. Broke back brother without a dime to his name, "callendose muerto". Is discovered after being recorded singing a sweet little ditty. The media was ABUZZ!!!
The HAITIAN SENSATION!!!!
The dude disappeared at first. He probably thought he was in trouble, or God knows what. They couldn't find him. Which also highlights how all these foreign citizens are basically invisible and need to be accounted for and in my opinion, DEPORTED.
But the point on this one, is that Roman, or Rumai as they are calling him is being treated like royalty.
The brother be black, Haitian and BROKE. But DR is racist, racist, racist, RACISSSSSSSST!!
Castle looooooooves DR, but he also looooves knockin it.
MountainAnnie, loooooooooooves Haitians, but she looooooooves her apartment in Naco even more.......
Let Dominicans, yeah us who been here since 1492, resolve this. WE GOT THIS. All you people makin noise, NYDOMs, BOSTONDOMS, NJDOMs, SPAINDoms, MIADOMs, all you NGO's, no more advice please, just give us the cash.
No more immature little comments, "but look at what USA does, look at what France does, look at ALL the Dominican's in ANTARTICA". Enough mudslinging, we understand what's at stake, our imminent future as ending up as a minority in our land.
Like the Palestinians, like the Serbians in Kosovo, The Rojinga, the Aramaic populations in Arabic countries and the Armenians.
No thank you.
We have been here since 1492, and going strong. You other's you might have been here 5-6-10 yrs.
But we been here for generations and WE GOT THIS.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Overpopulation is a function of poverty. When people have no urge to educate their children, they have more of them. I agree that Dominicans certainly have the right to decide who is and who is not a Dominican citizen. But if a child is born to Haitian parents illegally in the DR, then what is his nationality? Everyone has the right to belong SOMEWHERE.
This is a thorny issue. The US and Canada have enough resources to deal with illegals. And the number if illegals is shrinking, as Mexico and Central America become more prosperous.
This is a thorny issue. The US and Canada have enough resources to deal with illegals. And the number if illegals is shrinking, as Mexico and Central America become more prosperous.
Xavier, that brings us back to the whole, "if the parents came in illegally, it's not the kids fault". In principle, I agree, in principle that is true why should I treat my neighbor's kid like dirt?
However in practice, if the parents made a choice, whether it be a good or bad one as adults the child, or children will suffer the consequences.
DR can absorb many Haitians, and I welcome them. But not the swarms and swarms of false document possessing of foreign citizens Mountainannie and her partners in crime provide aid and comfort to.
Once again, these folks have a citizenship, a flag and a country. It's an hour and a half away by guagua. Stop making us Dominicans the bad guys and you all need to stop playing the victim.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
However in practice, if the parents made a choice, whether it be a good or bad one as adults the child, or children will suffer the consequences.
DR can absorb many Haitians, and I welcome them. But not the swarms and swarms of false document possessing of foreign citizens Mountainannie and her partners in crime provide aid and comfort to.
Once again, these folks have a citizenship, a flag and a country. It's an hour and a half away by guagua. Stop making us Dominicans the bad guys and you all need to stop playing the victim.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
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