Is there hope for Cabarete? (Investing in Property)

[Dark_Scorpion]

From an economic standpoint, I think things will get much worse when the financial collapse occurs in the US soon. As Bernanke keeps printing 85 billion a month in new money with no new serious job growth to show for it, we are screwed. It's mathematically inevitable, we are pretty much headed for financial collapse soon. When that happens, the DR and everyone else will definitely feel the shock wave. The worst the DR will likely see is much higher gas prices and alot of resorts in Punta Cana getting hammered financially.

High Speed Internet access sucks in the DR?? That could throw a wrench into my plans to move there. Any thoughts on that. i am scoping out around Sosua.

The United States is in trouble. No doubt. That is one of the reasons I moved here, because I'm very concerned with the direction the U.S. is headed in. Be that as it may, geographically, the USA is still a very rich country, regardless of the foolishness of its politicians. I think the DR is already feeling fall out from the U.S. and Europe as well because its tourism industry is directly affected.

Regarding the Internet, I must be honest and admit that the service here is terrible in comparison to the U.S. At this second, the connection is doing fine, but there are moments(almost daily), where the connection drops every five minutes. There are times when I can barely get work done, and forget about playing online games. You can play them, but there will be times when the connection drops or slows so much that you won't be able to play any games online. You will get used to the Internet here. I've learned to be patient with it. Sometimes when it goes down for a time I just do something else or go out and when I return it is working. But the internet connection/speed in the DR is not that great. On a scale of 1 to 5 I would rate the ISP here a 3, and that is being very generous. Since I've been here, there was one day a couple of months ago when the Internet was down all day long.

Here is a piece of advice. When you move here, and the internet working properly, download a lot of books, movies, and games, you want to know why? That way, when the Internet goes down, you'll have something to do!

 

[drstock]

This post is hilarious. So let me get this straight, it is okay to open a business in the DR......so long as you don't expect to get rich!? ROFL! Man, that was a good one! Isn't that why most people go into business in the first place? You sound like a Dominican lol, you run a business just to get by rather than to become rich, ha! Me, I'm a little bit more ambitious than that.

"Thanks" for being so rude about my post. The OP states that he wants to run a business in semi-retirement. That is exactly what I am doing and it is working fine for me. People who start businesses in later life don't usually do so to become rich, so I am not the only one. No, I am not Dominican - I had a business back in the UK, made a reasonable amount of money, then came out here for a more relaxed lifestyle. I am interested to hear that you are more ambitious than me, but as I said here, if you want to become rich, Cabarete may not be the best place in the world to do it.

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

I've met web-page guys in the DR with clients all over the world. They find a corner in a quiet bar and write code all day while sucking down the occasional fria. Not the worst way to make a living. Still plenty of room for web-page designers, esp if you can speak Spanish and English, along with either German or French(Las Terranas).

I'd much rather own a Face Book or Skype over a bar in Cabarete. It is more than just the money, it is the simple fact that an online business can be accessed anywhere the Internet is available. Lets say you have some real estate in the DR, and you're making good money........and suddenly the property is destroyed in an earthquake like the one that hit Haiti, now what? If you own a Face Book, you don't have to worry about it. You can still keep running your business and making money because it is on the internet.

The capital cost of starting an online business is very low, whereas owning a physical business requires a large injection of capital. The problem with a physical business is that it can be easily identified and seized by the government. Look what happened in Venezuela? The same thing can happen to any property you own in the DR, if the Dominican government decided to do it. However, if you own a website, the Dominican government can't get to that. They can get to your bar in Cabarete or Boca Chica, they can get to your home in Las Terranas, they can get to the lot you own outside Santo Domingo, but if you have a website that is making $10,000 per month the Dominican government can't touch it. And if things go to sht here in the DR you can always go someplace else, and keep your business. On the other hand, If things go to sht in the DR, and you have a business that is based in the DR.......

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

"Thanks" for being so rude about my post. The OP states that he wants to run a business in semi-retirement. That is exactly what I am doing and it is working fine for me. People who start businesses in later life don't usually do so to become rich, so I am not the only one. No, I am not Dominican - I had a business back in the UK, made a reasonable amount of money, then came out here for a more relaxed lifestyle. I am interested to hear that you are more ambitious than me, but as I said here, if you want to become rich, Cabarete may not be the best place in the world to do it.

I was just joking, don't have a heart attack. There is nothing wrong with what you do as long as it makes you happy.

 

[drstock]

Dark Scorpion: No heart attack yet, despite my old age! For all the business advice you give here and for all the ambition you claim to have, I am sure you will soon be very rich. Please be sure to let me know when it happens. I don't know when you came here, but you joined DR1 in August 2012, which would indicate that your experience here may be limited. A bit of advice for you: If you are so dissatisfied with your internet, why not try another company? Mine works fine!

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

Dark Scorpion: No heart attack yet, despite my old age! For all the business advice you give here and for all the ambition you claim to have, I am sure you will soon be very rich. Please be sure to let me know when it happens. I don't know when you came here, but you joined DR1 in August 2012, which would indicate that your experience here may be limited. A bit of advice for you: If you are so dissatisfied with your internet, why not try another company? Mine works fine!

My experience here is indeed limited. I don't know if you can get Internet in your name if you don't have residency. My landlord pays for the Internet, and it is included in my rent. I also don't think there are a lot of choices for ISPs on the island, who do you use for internet access?

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

On a serious note guys, I'm beginning to think that the only safe place to own a business over the long run is the Internet. There are a lot of reasons I feel this way. While online businesses are not 100 percent secure(your website can be hacked or attacked by a DOS attack), online businesses seem to offer the greatest flexibility. If you own a successful website, you can live anywhere. Physical businesses are vulnerable to wars, acts of God, government seizures, you name it.

I have some investments that I believe will mature in the next few years, and I've been trying to decide how I will use the money. My original plan was to buy real estate here in the DR and rent it out, but based on what I've experience here, and what I've read, I'm not sure if that is the right direction. I'm thinking of taking that capital and using it towards the growth of an internet business. Online businesses seem to offer a superior level of financial freedom AND privacy, and they allow you to live anywhere, without the headaches of owning a physical business.

 

[windeguy]

On the North Coast. CLARO DSL lines are still the best option. The cable modem people do not seem to have their act together and I hear a lot of complaints from their customers unless they are very lucky. The downside is that the speeds are 20% of what I got in the US for the same money 15 years ago. It has improved over time, but has a long way to go regarding speed. CLARO DSL has been more reliable than anything else in the DR for me.

 

[maurmcgee]

Thanks for all the great advice

"Thanks" for being so rude about my post. The OP states that he wants to run a business in semi-retirement. That is exactly what I am doing and it is working fine for me. People who start businesses in later life don't usually do so to become rich, so I am not the only one. No, I am not Dominican - I had a business back in the UK, made a reasonable amount of money, then came out here for a more relaxed lifestyle. I am interested to hear that you are more ambitious than me, but as I said here, if you want to become rich, Cabarete may not be the best place in the world to do it.

This is indeed my intent- not looking to become rich... (and I am a "she" ha ha), I do have a passive income which would allow me to live in the DR without having to make "too much" money, but who wants to work and get nothing out of it! I am looking for a creative outlet in my retirement....I am not one to sit around a bar and drink all day, I need to be challenged and keep learning. I think I am past the idea of having a beach bar (need to go to bed too early!) but would like some kind of shop or B and B, or some such thing. I like people and am good with people (something that can be hard to find sometimes).

I am not jumping into anything, for sure. I really appreciate this discussion and am happy that I posed the question to start with.

There is just something about Cabarete that I have liked since my first visit in 2000. Can't seem to get it out of my mind and off my bucket list.

 

[oceanspear]

Well What a great time to step back into this discussion. IMO some of the posted info/comments are great and some are ill informed... Lets take a crack at it....
1-The dominican Republic is ranked No...127 or whatever out of 187 in ease of doing business... REallY???? LMAO!!!... you go and tell that to a dominican businessman and they will laugh at you so hard they will puke Presidentes out. This country as in so many so called 3rd world countries....ridiculous statement...the "great" minds on wall street didnt see financial meltdowns, real estate bubbles...and we are supposed to listen to the expertise???
have you ever had a business here???.. I have, here and in the USA.
Plain stupidity, lack of planning, crazy expectations are a recipe for failure from the get go. Be aware if you dont want to lose any money, don't take any chances, dig a hole and watch the money tree grow!!
I know many Lebanese, Israelis, Chinese migrants who have come to this country with a few dollars, put a little table on La San Martin (I bet you dont know where is at) and have become millionares.
I have a very close friend, multimillionare who was denied a visa to the usa at the same time I was living there...and started with one wooden table selling pork sandwiches at nite, and was a cashier at banco popular during the day.
He invested his little savings wisely, lent money carefully and with collateral. in less than 10 years, he owns a few buildings, a profitable printing shop, nice cars, racing horses... and when he started never enjoyed the benefit of coming here with dollars and euros at 40 or 50 to 1. his name is carlos hernandez. the same consul later gave him a visa after he was a millionare. he thanked the consul for having denied him years before. true story.
Saying that this country only depends on tourism is a slap in the face to the many entepreneurs who do it day in and day out with many different industries. when tourism goes down, we will find another way. we are dominicans.
If you live your life with fear about the unknown, stay home and hug your pillows.

 

[oceanspear]

Oh and by the way and for the record Carlos Hernandez has never been involved in Politics, drug trafficking, money laundering or his parents fronted any money for his businesses. he was an orphan by age 16.

Comparing a 9 million people country (3rd world,how some guys here call it) economy to estabilished medium to large size countries is insane and lunatic. This is a great small country with many imperfections y muchos ****ing ladrones politicos.
In spite of that, we make it happen. one way or the other.
If you think like an Expat, you will never get it. get out of your comfort zone. Everybody that decides to go to a different country must adapt to new realities. I did. The USA was a great school for me. It humbled me big time when I thought I knew it all. It was a very costly lesson in financial terms, but what I myself got out of it in experience has been paying off ever since.

 

[dv8]

It isn't that simple DV8. It isn't enough to have "great timing, a great idea and money" in the DR.

sorry, i should have clarified the businesses i mentioned were all dominican owned. it is more difficult for a gringo to break in. still, not unheard of. NC posters are familiar with lifestyle haciendas, owned and run by gringos, i believe. probably few more businesses too. with gringos it is more the question of money than anything else. that and wisdom to choose carefully dominicans they deal with (from lawyers to business partners).

 

[LTSteve]

Cabarate is no different than many areas in the DR. It has been an established tourist area for many, many years. The Cabarate area has been over built again like many areas. The problem is that times change and other areas of the country become the hot spot for tourists and developers. Right now Las Terrenas is that area. It has a lot going for it. A new International Airport 30 minutes away, an international population base from Europe, new road accesses, many eco-tourism attractions, great beaches, restaurants and night life. Cabarate will always have it's loyal followers, kite boarders, wind surfers and the 18-30 year old beach crowd. It will stay a busy tourist area but not as busy as it once was. The downturn in real estate is happening all over the DR so I wouldn't be too critical of just the Cabarate area. I think people are basically fickle and are looking for the newest, latest, hottest thing. Cabarate will hang in there and probably make a come back. Everything seems to go in cycles and real estate is no different. What was hot is now not.

LTSteve

 

[windeguy]

Cabarate is no different than many areas in the DR. It has been an established tourist area for many, many years. The Cabarate area has been over built again like many areas. The problem is that times change and other areas of the country become the hot spot for tourists and developers. Right now Las Terrenas is that area. It has a lot going for it. A new International Airport 30 minutes away, an international population base from Europe, new road accesses, many eco-tourism attractions, great beaches, restaurants and night life. Cabarate will always have it's loyal followers, kite boarders, wind surfers and the 18-30 year old beach crowd. It will stay a busy tourist area but not as busy as it once was. The downturn in real estate is happening all over the DR so I wouldn't be too critical of just the Cabarate area. I think people are basically fickle and are looking for the newest, latest, hottest thing. Cabarate will hang in there and probably make a come back. Everything seems to go in cycles and real estate is no different. What was hot is now not.

LTSteve

I agree. Cabarete has the best location for surfing and kite/wind surfing on the island. It is unique on the island for those interested in those water sports. As long as there is interest in those sports, Cabarete will have its share of tourists seeking that in the Caribbean mixed in with snow birds and ex-pats.

 

[oceanspear]

I agree with LT Steve, every area has its heyday. Today is Las Terrenas, next year will be Barahona, Montecristi or who knows. This Island has many beautiful spots. the best one is the one you call home and where you feel good at. Some areas are more developed than others, and as time goes by the infrastructure will keep improving. There are too many powerful interests heavily invested here to let it all fail. The current goverment is better than the disgraceful previous one and this president seems more compasionate. Even if a downturn in the tourism sector materializes in the long run it will be ok.
Personally I'm not bullish on putting all eggs on one basket. It would be a good thing for the DR not to be too dependent on tourism. I would much rather prefer to start attracting IT related start ups and high end manufacturing. Our proximity to the US is an advantage.
On the same token, I would like to see the goverment reaching out to other countries to encourage relations and trade. Depending too much to our patron in the North is not good in the long run.
We need to diversify our business portfolio. Have to.
and pray to God that Mr Fernandez never again becomes president.

 

[Seamonkey]

nope, no hope for Cabarete. Now, Sosua, on the other hand-heh,heh,heh.
Vast majority of expats who open a business in the DR lose their money. The "business model" here is not what is normal in the rest of the civilized world. Free advice. Forget it.

Many expats lose their money here not because of the country and its ethics, but because their business model is wrong. Any business model is based on a good product, fair price and good customer service....anywhere in the world. It takes a lot of hard work to make a business succeed and it's no different here in the DR...but some expats think it is....high expectations I guess.

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

Comparing a 9 million people country (3rd world,how some guys here call it) economy to estabilished medium to large size countries is insane and lunatic. This is a great small country with many imperfections y muchos ****ing ladrones politicos.
In spite of that, we make it happen. one way or the other.
If you think like an Expat, you will never get it. get out of your comfort zone. Everybody that decides to go to a different country must adapt to new realities. I did. The USA was a great school for me. It humbled me big time when I thought I knew it all. It was a very costly lesson in financial terms, but what I myself got out of it in experience has been paying off ever since.

You're right, it is insane to compare a small country like the DR to the USA........so why don't we compare it to Taiwan, another island nation of similar size? Now, why is it that Taiwan still buries the DR in terms of economic output? And I don't want to hear that "because the USA invests in Taiwan" BS, get tired of that excuse. The USA invested in Taiwan and Japan because the Taiwanese and Japanese have shown they're worth the investment. The USA doesn't invest in the DR, it exploits it, and Dominicans let themselves be exploited. I do agree with your post that we have to adapt to the new realities of this country, and I am. That adaptation involves me not investing very much in it...........

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

Many expats lose their money here not because of the country and its ethics, but because their business model is wrong. Any business model is based on a good product, fair price and good customer service....anywhere in the world. It takes a lot of hard work to make a business succeed and it's no different here in the DR...but some expats think it is....high expectations I guess.

Businesses in the DR do not base their business models on good products, fair price and good customer service. If they did the country wouldn't be as poor as it is. Business in the DR is all about connections and who you know, that is the way it works here. Clearly you know little about this country even if you've been living here awhile. Like I said yesterday, you can be the next Steve Jobs but you will not move an inch in the DR if you have neither connections or the ability to charm. Most third world nations run their businesses based on connections rather than merit........that is why they're third world. The talented people born in those country often smarten up and immigrate to develop countries where they actually have a chance at making a good living.

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

sorry, i should have clarified the businesses i mentioned were all dominican owned. it is more difficult for a gringo to break in. still, not unheard of.

Gringos with serious financial muscle can force their way into the DR, and already have. Most Dominicans in this country run small mom and pop operations like colmados or hair salons. Foreign interests dominate virtually all the major assets, like the electrical systems and the mines. Foreigners with serious financial muscle like Donald Trump can force their way into the DR and own prime grade real estate, real estate that virtually no local can afford. The Barrick Gold mine in Cotui is owned by Canadian interests. Dominicans control small operations in the DR but all the major stuff is controlled by rich foreigners who share their spoils with the Dominican elite. Dominicans barely run their own country.

 

[Dark_Scorpion]

Well What a great time to step back into this discussion. IMO some of the posted info/comments are great and some are ill informed... Lets take a crack at it....
1-The dominican Republic is ranked No...127 or whatever out of 187 in ease of doing business... REallY???? LMAO!!!... you go and tell that to a dominican businessman and they will laugh at you so hard they will puke Presidentes out. This country as in so many so called 3rd world countries....ridiculous statement...the "great" minds on wall street didnt see financial meltdowns, real estate bubbles...and we are supposed to listen to the expertise???
have you ever had a business here???.. I have, here and in the USA.
Plain stupidity, lack of planning, crazy expectations are a recipe for failure from the get go. Be aware if you dont want to lose any money, don't take any chances, dig a hole and watch the money tree grow!!
I know many Lebanese, Israelis, Chinese migrants who have come to this country with a few dollars, put a little table on La San Martin (I bet you dont know where is at) and have become millionares.
I have a very close friend, multimillionare who was denied a visa to the usa at the same time I was living there...and started with one wooden table selling pork sandwiches at nite, and was a cashier at banco popular during the day.
He invested his little savings wisely, lent money carefully and with collateral. in less than 10 years, he owns a few buildings, a profitable printing shop, nice cars, racing horses... and when he started never enjoyed the benefit of coming here with dollars and euros at 40 or 50 to 1. his name is carlos hernandez. the same consul later gave him a visa after he was a millionare. he thanked the consul for having denied him years before. true story.
Saying that this country only depends on tourism is a slap in the face to the many entepreneurs who do it day in and day out with many different industries. when tourism goes down, we will find another way. we are dominicans.
If you live your life with fear about the unknown, stay home and hug your pillows.

Your post above only confirms what........I already said. You pointed out all these foreigners who come here and make money, the Lebanese, the Chinese, no kidding. That is my point, all these foreigners making money and the locals are poor as sht? And........that doesn't sound a bit odd to you? You don't get it, do you? The DOMINICAN REPUBLIC IS BEING EXPLOITED. Yes, your country depends on tourism slick, everybody knows it. Where is the Dominican Sony? Mitsubishi? Ford? You guys don't manufacture cars, trucks, weapons, nothing. Yes, tourism and agriculture is where most of the DR's money comes from. If you guys were building cell phones like the Japanese you wouldn't be so damn poor.

I read right here on DR1 about that Barrick Mine at Cotui, what a joke! Barrick is mining the gold, they claim the locals will get 5 percent(wow, thats a lot), but the locals are suing the Dominican government because the company refuses to say how much gold they're removing from the mine! Where I come from, they call that "getting pimped." The DR is completely exploited. All those Dominican businessmen you mention are the lucky few who have the connections to make money. The Chinese stick to each other and keep money to themselves, no surprise they make money here, the Chinese make money in every country the come to, that is why they build Chinatowns. The truth is that I really don't give a damn either way. With the Internet I can make money and to hell with investing in the DR and dealing with the BS here. Yes the Dominican Republic ranks horribly on the ease of doing business index. It is right up there with the African and Middle Eastern countries. The poverty here proves it.