La violencia intrafamiliar

[Marianopolita]

Hi my DR1 friends:

I don't know if this question has been raised already but what's going on with regards to the wave of domestic violence in the DR? Rampantly since 2002 men are killing their wives either by shooting them at point blank range, stabbing them or setting them on fire (the latter not as common as the first). This is very disturbing and most women are young between ages 23-35.

I read every incident that has been detailed in "el Listin Diario" when it occurs and it seems that these killings are equally premeditated and unpremeditated based on jealousy and in most cases the couple was on "rocky road" anyway. But that does give the men the right to kill in cold blood. This weekend there was tragic case of young 18 year couple killed by the girl's ex-boyfriend. It's in today's paper-"el Listin" and once again it was a case of "if I can't have you nobody can". How can anyone carry such a vengeance at such a young age???

Do you guys think this problem is culture based with some "machismo latino" added in with it or there's an American influence here which is usually blamed for everything?

I find the situation really disturbing from my humble female point of view. Would love to hear your thoughts especially from those who live in the DR currently. Me parece muy triste y casi irremediable.

Sincerely,

Lesley D

 

[Rocky]

Killings...

This is just an opinion based on my observations, but I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that it's not a rise in this type of crime, insomuch as some news reporters have found that it sells journals and is now being reported more than before.
That being said, I am surprised that you are hearing about the husbands killing the wives. I have always heard that it was the other way around.
The Dominican women are no doubt some of the most jealous women in the world and the men are rather promiscuous, so there are a quite a few women with "Lorena Bobbitt" tendencies.

 

[MrMike]

Most latins in general seem to feel jealousy is a perfectly good reason to kill people.

 

[Marianopolita]

Rocky,

I understand and respect your opinion but I highly doubt that Dominican women are more aggressive when it comes to domestic violence. Granted you may be right that news reporters are exposing it more but historically and this is anywhere in the world men tend to be the more aggressive gender-men kill more than women even without statistics I am willing to go out on a limb and say this. Could it be that when women do retaliate it is just self-defense and they are outright "fed up"? Should Dominican women or any women put up with this? Your husband should not be your aggressor! And as for jealousy that is not gender based it is personality based so that has nothing to do with it in my opinion. I think there's some underlying cultural issues here combined with tough economic times, which may instigate the short-er tempered men. Of course there's always exceptions.

This is just an opinion based on my observations, but I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that it's not a rise in this type of crime, insomuch as some news reporters have found that it sells journals and is now being reported more than before.
That being said, I am surprised that you are hearing about the husbands killing the wives. I have always heard that it was the other way around.
The Dominican women are no doubt some of the most jealous women in the world and the men are rather promiscuous, so there are a quite a few women with "Lorena Bobbitt" tendencies.

 

[MrMike]

Lesley, you need a reality check. Are you married to a Dominican woman? If you were I think you would agree that a great deal of the beatings Dominican women receive are self-defense. My brother and I are both married to Dominican women, and both of us have had to fight for our lives against them. My brother has permanent muscle damage in his arm from his wife attacking him with a knife.

You are right the latin machismo does have a lot to do with family violence, mainly it means that the female on male violence goes largely unreported, besides who wants their wife dragged off to prison and raped by all and sundry regardless of what she's done?

What would lead you to believe that the domestic violence genes are only passed to the men?

 

[Rocky]

Rocky,

I understand and respect your opinion but I highly doubt that Dominican women are more aggressive when it comes to domestic violence. Granted you may be right that news reporters are exposing it more but historically and this is anywhere in the world men tend to be the more aggressive gender-men kill more than women even without statistics I am willing to go out on a limb and say this. Could it be that when women do retaliate it is just self-defense and they are outright "fed up"? Should Dominican women or any women put up with this? Your husband should not be your aggressor! And as for jealousy that is not gender based it is personality based so that has nothing to do with it in my opinion. I think there's some underlying cultural issues here combined with tough economic times, which may instigate the short-er tempered men. Of course there's always exceptions.

I'll be the first to admit that I have little knowledge on the matter and don't really care which sex is doing the most killing/hurting/injuring. It's all bad.
It's just been my observations, nothing more. I hate it all.
Violence is violence, no matter where it's coming from, and it ain't pretty.
I'll be the first to stick my neck out in a case of abuse. It's amazing that I'm still here to talk about it for all the times I got involved in areas that others would tell me are none of my business.
I'm with you 100% against violence.
The whole concept of hurting someone you "love", is absurd.
I hope you didn't think that I was trying to turn your post into a gender issue.
I don't see the world that way.
There are good peopple and bad people and I'm the good guy's best friend and the bad guy's worst enemy.
Marco.

 

[Marianopolita]

Soy mujer!

MrMike,

First and foremost I am a woman-soy mujer- hombre! And secondly I do not need a reality check. As mentioned from get go this is my opinion and everybody' experiences are different!

Lesley, you need a reality check. Are you married to a Dominican woman? If you were I think you would agree that a great deal of the beatings Dominican women receive are self-defense. My brother and I are both married to Dominican women, and both of us have had to fight for our lives against them. My brother has permanent muscle damage in his arm from his wife attacking him with a knife.

You are right the latin machismo does have a lot to do with family violence, mainly it means that the female on male violence goes largely unreported, besides who wants their wife dragged off to prison and raped by all and sundry regardless of what she's done?

What would lead you to believe that the domestic violence genes are only passed to the men?

 

[Marianopolita]

I understand

Rocky,

I like your response and exactly, I don't want this to be a war. I just wanted to hear people's thoughts but I get the feeling that anything that's posted gets turned into a battle somehow and there's no need for that. I am with you 100%. I will leave it at that.

Chao.

I'll be the first to admit that I have little knowledge on the matter and don't really care which sex is doing the most killing/hurting/injuring. It's all bad.
It's just been my observations, nothing more. I hate it all.
Violence is violence, no matter where it's coming from, and it ain't pretty.
I'll be the first to stick my neck out in a case of abuse. It's amazing that I'm still here to talk about it for all the times I got involved in areas that others would tell me are none of my business.
I'm with you 100% against violence.
The whole concept of hurting someone you "love", is absurd.
I hope you didn't think that I was trying to turn your post into a gender issue.
I don't see the world that way.
There are good peopple and bad people and I'm the good guy's best friend and the bad guy's worst enemy.
Marco.

 

[Rocky]

No war,

Rocky,

I like your response and exactly, I don't want this to be a war. I just wanted to hear people's thoughts but I get the feeling that anything that's posted gets turned into a battle somehow and there's no need for that. I am with you 100%. I will leave it at that.

Chao.

I don't think there's any war going on here. We're just all expressing our opinions based on life experiences.
I know MrMike and he's one of the good guys.
I think you would be surprised at how determined and capable Dominican women are.
The important thing is that we all agree that family violence exists and we should try to do what we can to help eliminate it.
Marco.

 

[MrMike]

MrMike,

First and foremost I am a woman-soy mujer- hombre! And secondly I do not need a reality check. As mentioned from get go this is my opinion and everybody' experiences are different!

I guess that means it will be difficult for you to marry a Dominican girl.

Your opinion that domestic violence is wrong and that people shouldn't kill young women is hard to differ with, I am only saying it's not just men that are perpetrating the violence, women are doing their share of it as well but they are also the only ones complaining about it.

I think culturally latins tend to see their spouses as property, and this leads them to think they can beat them, kill them etc. whenever they fell the need.

Recently a good friend of mine was murdered in his bed by the boyfriend of the girl he was with, (the girl was seriously wounded too and the killer killed himself right there) and the whole incident completely changed my view of Dominican culture immediatley, I became permanently less forgiving and indulgent. The most disturbing thing about the whole affair to me was listening to everyone's reaction to it. Not one single person seemed to realise that a cheating girlfriend is not a reason to kill, everyone wanted to debate how such a "sweet" girl could be such a whore, how my friend could cheat on his girlfriend when they had been together for such a long time and seemed like such a nice couple, and who was the snitch that told.

I don't think there is any cure for the situation, people need the resolve to extricate themselves from abusive relationships, but in the latin world codependency is ingrained in people from a very young age and reinforced with every single bachata, merengue, salsa, cumbia, samba and "romantica" song played on every radio station every day. Further brainwashing in the form of soap operas and talk shows fills in the empty spaces.

It seems like a bad situation coming from North America, but if you put it in perspective with Asian attitudes towards women and the kind of violence common in Africa you see that the latin world is not so bad off and is progressing rapidly. At least latins don't circumcise women or make them cover their faces ewhen they go out.

 

[trina]

My husband, too, was almost killed by his ex-girlfriend, several times. She chased him around with a knife on several occasions...she was totally convinced that he was cheating on her...it's the guilty who are often so paranoid...she was the one who was sleeping around.

I wouldn't go as far to say that the women are more violent than the men, but I would say that it happens way more often than we'll ever know about. The man's machismo prevents them from telling anyone, who wants anyone to know that their wife beats them on a regular basis? That's why when you read about all "la violencia intrafamiliar", it's typically man abusing woman, however, vice versa happens far too often, as well.

Well said, Rocky, all violence is bad, and perhaps if there were a few more people like you who got involved, things might change little by little for the better. Knowing you made a difference in a few lives has to be very rewarding. I still can hear the screams I heard when I lived there, and I stood by, not knowing what to do, after all, I value my life, and what can I do against a man twice my size and physical strength? I still don't know the answer to that one, but it's a horrible feeling thinking about it, and feeling guilty about not doing anything.

Also well said, MrMike. I agree with you on all points.

 

[Marianopolita]

To all those who replied thus far:

taking all your points in consideration, my question still remains:

Is there anything being done on a social scale in the DR to address the issue? Especially based on your response Trina.

What is the punishment if a male or female commits some form of domestic crime and the ultimate crime that leads to death?

I know what the punishment is here (I am in Toronto (Canada) ) but I would like some orientation with regard to what justice is done in the DR if any at all.

My husband, too, was almost killed by his ex-girlfriend, several times. She chased him around with a knife on several occasions...she was totally convinced that he was cheating on her...it's the guilty who are often so paranoid...she was the one who was sleeping around.

I wouldn't go as far to say that the women are more violent than the men, but I would say that it happens way more often than we'll ever know about. The man's machismo prevents them from telling anyone, who wants anyone to know that their wife beats them on a regular basis? That's why when you read about all "la violencia intrafamiliar", it's typically man abusing woman, however, vice versa happens far too often, as well.

Well said, Rocky, all violence is bad, and perhaps if there were a few more people like you who got involved, things might change little by little for the better. Knowing you made a difference in a few lives has to be very rewarding. I still can hear the screams I heard when I lived there, and I stood by, not knowing what to do, after all, I value my life, and what can I do against a man twice my size and physical strength? I still don't know the answer to that one, but it's a horrible feeling thinking about it, and feeling guilty about not doing anything.

Also well said, MrMike. I agree with you on all points.

 

[trina]

That's a very good question, LesleyD...unfortunately, I don't have the answer to it. I think the topic is pretty much "taboo", outsiders looking in try not to make it their problem. And sometimes, there is no other option. I mean, you could call the police, but we all know that system in the DR...and by butting in, you may just be making it worse for the abusee. After all, now someone else "knows about it, and they saved you this time, but I'll sure get you for it next time!" I am by no means saying that what I did was right by not getting involved because I still think the right thing would've been to DO something, but what am I capable of doing, and would I only make things worse? I still struggle with it.

The problem is so widespread that it's hard to think of an answer to correct it...maybe through education, but chances are, the people doing the abusing and the objects of abuse aren't the ones being educated, although abusers are from all walks of life. I don't know if the DR really has any shelters that people can run to in order to save their lives. And going to the police would quite likely just be a joke. So how does this problem get solved? Chances are, it never will. Unfortunately, it's a cycle that happens all over the world. The only one that can help the abuser is the abuser themselves.

 

[Chirimoya]

Lesley, it's creeping up the agenda to some extent thanks to the press, which has done a lot to highlight the problem. There are now public education campaigns offering information to victims, shelters being set up, mainly by independent organisations. There are moves to make the police and legal process more sympathetic to those on the receiving end. It's a start.

Chiri

 

[Forbeca]

I was curious about what's being done as well.

Thanks, i was waiting for an answer from the DR. At least the problem has been somewhat identified, let's hope for the best.

Lesley, it's creeping up the agenda to some extent thanks to the press, which has done a lot to highlight the problem. There are now public education campaigns offering information to victims, shelters being set up, mainly by independent organisations. There are moves to make the police and legal process more sympathetic to those on the receiving end. It's a start.

Chiri

 

[MrMike]

Anyone found beating their spouse goes directly to jail here, bruises and split lips are all the evidence needed for an arrest. This has found it's way into local lingo, a person will generally threaten their spouse as follows:

"I swear to God if you do x I will be out of jail before you are out of the hospital"

There was a woman who killed her prominent semi-famous husband not so long ago and was basically slapped on the wrist because it was well known that he beat her frequently.

Jail is not going to stem the epidemic, there already is that. I think that probably the Catholic attitude towards divorce has alot to do with it, couples prefer to beat each other to death than just go their seperate ways when they can't stand each other any more.