lexical and grammatical poverty of DR

[GringoRubio]

GringoRubio,
Libraries here would be a big help but I suspect more would borrow than would return.

I think some Germans started a lending library in Nicaragua. You got it exactly, but they persisted. When the locals figured out that they weren't going to fold and disappear and the books had no monetary value beyond rough toilet paper, it started to gain some traction.

 

[Derfish]

GringoRubio,

Good points, many I was considering making myself. As a suggestion, see if you can find some Hardy Boys series type books in Spanish for the young lad. Once exposed and forced to read the first one, every book for leisure after that is a bit easier if they enjoy what they are reading.

Libraries here would be a big help but I suspect more would borrow than would return.

In the Metro in Panama they have a lending library. The books sit there in shelves in each station, mostly in Spanish, but also a fewin English and I even saw a couple in French and one in Italian. I don't know who is behind it, but I have seen all the shelves vacant one time, but later they are full again. There is a metro (train) in Santo Domingo try it there.
Der Fish

 

[the gorgon]

In the Metro in Panama they have a lending library. The books sit there in shelves in each station, mostly in Spanish, but also a fewin English and I even saw a couple in French and one in Italian. I don't know who is behind it, but I have seen all the shelves vacant one time, but later they are full again. There is a metro (train) in Santo Domingo try it there.
Der Fish

do you know if there is a lending library in the DR?

 

[Derfish]

do you know if there is a lending library in the DR?

THere in Puerto Plata there is one in English. Run by a Canadian couple and only open a fewmonths out of the year.

 

[the gorgon]

THere in Puerto Plata there is one in English. Run by a Canadian couple and only open a fewmonths out of the year.

i am familiar with the place. i was thinking about a regular library, where you had a card, and you borrowed books for a specified number of days. if you were late returning them , there would be a fine. i have never heard of such a thing in POP.

 

[dv8]

there is a library in PP, a street away from the cathedral.
http://www.screnovacion.org/Default.aspx

 

[Neargale]

I once brought a book for a young one. 3 Musqueteers I believe it was. His first reaction was: "Me no gusta". I pushed him to read it. He said "muy difficile". So We read the first chapter together. Surprise, surprise, he could actually read it! His teacher at school showered him with compliments and the book went around the class. 1 month later he was all excited to tell me he had finished reading it and I was under orders to bring more.

So, sometimes they just need a bit of help to start. Also, the school need to encourage and promote reading.

 

[Fulano2]

Thats great Neargale!

 

[Marianopolita]

Pollo al Carbom, Se vusca mecera, Bano(~) de cavalleros,...domingo serado(cerrado). These are but a few examples of what I see while walking or riding around from Juan Dolio to Bani. Many of these are professionally produced and not just hand written on a piece of cardboard at a hole-in-the-wall colmado. I agree with Africaida that social media and texting are not making things any better. The examples there I find even more disturbing: kiere, boy(voy), bamos, ise, emos...

This is one of the frustrating aspects of the DR. In all my travels I have never been to a country yet where signs are posted with incorrect spelling. If it’s a hand written sign yes that can happen anywhere but if it’s a professional sign it’s unacceptable. I have seen controversy on TV about situations in large cities in North America that had signs with typos and it was a scandal. They were immediately removed and corrected. Then there are signs with Dominican grammar. It is more proof of a serious education problem.



 -MP.

 

[Fulano2]

In the ninetees I sold a car, so up to a abogado, summa cum laude guy. I had to correct four or five misspellings as a foreigner, and I am not talking about my surnames.

 

[Marianopolita]

great observation about social media. i guess that there is some nexus between texting and phonetic spelling..

Gorgon although social media is a factor today it is not the cause of the issues we see in the DR regarding spelling and grammmar. The only thing social media does is expose it more readily. I remember twenty years ago in 1997 having conversations about this problem with a group of teachers. I understand what Africaida is saying and yes there will be even more decay but it is not the root cause.

I agree with dv8 that the internet and social media can actually help the problem if used properly. The wealth of information that resides on the internet is limitless. It is how you use it and tap into it. However, if people only use it for Facebook, Twitter, etc. then yes it is going to make the situation more chronic.

There is a wealth of educational programs in Spanish on the internet for all levels of education including adults. The Dominican government needs to get on board and start redefining the public educational program and give children access to these programs whether it is on a desktop computer or tablets. The possibility exists. I did volunteer work this week which entailed looking for educational programs for students in grade 3-6 in Guatemala. I did not go there it was an initiative through work that we do every year and kids learn via programs on tablets that we select. 

It is possible with the right leadership.


-MP.

 

[the gorgon]

In the ninetees I sold a car, so up to a abogado, summa cum laude guy. I had to correct four or five misspellings as a foreigner, and I am not talking about my surnames.

my Canadian friend got involved in the regularization plan two years ago. he went to the offices with his Canadian Passport, and signed up for the program. when his documents returned, the stamp in his passport identified him as Haitian.

sometimes it is not even a matter of fundamental literacy. it is more like an attitude...indolence.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

So, sometimes they just need a bit of help to start. Also, the school need to encourage and promote reading.

Having an engaged faculty at school is of course really important. Having engaged parents even more so. The trend these days seems to favor parents abdicating their obligations and downloading them to daycare, the schools and other organizations.

My Mother taught me to read using the phonetics system. I could sound out unknown words at a really early age. I may not have known what a word meant, but I could read it. My parents bought me a dictionary and made me use it rather than becoming a faster and easier alternative. Looking up words increases the likelihood that the word will be retained in a child's vocabulary. Kids learn to enjoy reading at home, by being provided with enjoyable and diverse reading material that is age and ability appropriate. Kids learn to like reading because their parents read to them, explain the pictures and the plot. Most importantly kids learn to enjoy reading because their parents compel them to read on a regular basis. At least every other day for an hour.

Parents determine the type of person their children become by passing on morals, ethics, family values and reinforcement of the material taught in school. It is up to parents to provide explanation and context for those school taught subjects.

Given a Nintendo, a computer and a book, most kids will choose one or both of the former over a book any day of the week. It is up to the parents, even if they can't read well themselves, to ensure their kids have balance and structure in their daily lives. It's not a crime to tell your child to go read for an hour or to go help old Mrs. Martinez sweep her driveway. Kids may not want to do that, but in the end, it's good for them and it is up to parents to ensure that their children are exposed to good things despite the child's misgivings.

This means ensuring that your kids go to school, talk about what they learn in school at home, have some time set aside for exercise and sports, some time for community oriented good works, time to do their homework everyday and time when the TV and other distractions are off and reading any book of interest to the child for at least an hour is the only thing the child is permitted to do. If parents don't ensure their kids make time to read, they won't do it for themselves (usually) and they won't come to appreciate the level of enjoyment that can be had nor reap the benefits of an active imagination that reading promotes.

As children get better at reading, as their minds are better able to envision and model the fantastical worlds they are reading about, reading becomes a life long enjoyment. Parents do this, not the schools. Parents raise and educate their children, schools are a tool, a support mechanism and an introduction to subject material. Schools, do not produce well rounded people, parents do.

Parents need to be taught how to best raise children, how to be supportive even in poverty. How it is important not to let Juan convince you that going to school is optional. Parents need to be reminded sometimes, that being a parent is different than being a friend to your kids. Conflict and exposure to the expectations others have for a child is in and of itself a valuable life lesson that parents should impart to their kids from an early age. Parents need to quit coming up with excuses why they can't or won't be a real parent and accept the job of raising their own kids for the first 18 years.

You can surmise a lot about a child and their home life, just by asking what book they have finished reading in the last 30 days.

 

[the gorgon]

Gorgon although social media is a factor today it is not the cause of the issues we see in the DR regarding spelling and grammmar. The only thing social media does is expose it more readily. I remember twenty years ago in 1997 having conversations about this problem with a group of teachers. I understand what Africaida is saying and yes there will be even more decay but it is not the root cause.

I agree with dv8 that the internet and social media can actually help the problem if used properly. The wealth of information that resides on the internet is limitless. It is how you use it and tap into it. However, if people only use it for Facebook, Twitter, etc. then yes it is going to make the situation more chronic.

There is a wealth of educational programs in Spanish on the internet for all levels of education including adults. The Dominican government needs to get on board and start redefining the public educational program and give children access to these programs whether it is on a desktop computer or tablets. The possibility exists. I did volunteer work this week which entailed looking for educational programs for students in grade 3-6 in Guatemala. I did not go there it was an initiative through work that we do every year and kids learn via programs on tablets that we select. 

It is possible with the right leadership.


-MP.

thank you for these insights. when you spend a lot of time over at Off Topic, and you have to sift through piles of wilful ignorance, it is a joy to read something well thought out, and informative.

 

[the gorgon]

Having an engaged faculty at school is of course really important. Having engaged parents even more so. The trend these days seems to favor parents abdicating their obligations and downloading them to daycare, the schools and other organizations.

My Mother taught me to read using the phonetics system. I could sound out unknown words at a really early age. I may not have known what a word meant, but I could read it. My parents bought me a dictionary and made me use it rather than becoming a faster and easier alternative. Looking up words increases the likelihood that the word will be retained in a child's vocabulary. Kids learn to enjoy reading at home, by being provided with enjoyable and diverse reading material that is age and ability appropriate. Kids learn to like reading because their parents read to them, explain the pictures and the plot. Most importantly kids learn to enjoy reading because their parents compel them to read on a regular basis. At least every other day for an hour.

Parents determine the type of person their children become by passing on morals, ethics, family values and reinforcement of the material taught in school. It is up to parents to provide explanation and context for those school taught subjects.

Given a Nintendo, a computer and a book, most kids will choose one or both of the former over a book any day of the week. It is up to the parents, even if they can't read well themselves, to ensure their kids have balance and structure in their daily lives. It's not a crime to tell your child to go read for an hour or to go help old Mrs. Martinez sweep her driveway. Kids may not want to do that, but in the end, it's good for them and it is up to parents to ensure that their children are exposed to good things despite the child's misgivings.

This means ensuring that your kids go to school, talk about what they learn in school at home, have some time set aside for exercise and sports, some time for community oriented good works, time to do their homework everyday and time when the TV and other distractions are off and reading any book of interest to the child for at least an hour is the only thing the child is permitted to do. If parents don't ensure their kids make time to read, they won't do it for themselves (usually) and they won't come to appreciate the level of enjoyment that can be had nor reap the benefits of an active imagination that reading promotes.

As children get better at reading, as their minds are better able to envision and model the fantastical worlds they are reading about, reading becomes a life long enjoyment. Parents do this, not the schools. Parents raise and educate their children, schools are a tool, a support mechanism and an introduction to subject material. Schools, do not produce well rounded people, parents do.

Parents need to be taught how to best raise children, how to be supportive even in poverty. How it is important not to let Juan convince you that going to school is optional. Parents need to be reminded sometimes, that being a parent is different than being a friend to your kids. Conflict and exposure to the expectations others have for a child is in and of itself a valuable life lesson that parents should impart to their kids from an early age. Parents need to quit coming up with excuses why they can't or won't be a real parent and accept the job of raising their own kids for the first 18 years.

You can surmise a lot about a child and their home life, just by asking what book they have finished reading in the last 30 days.

some time back, i read some working papers on childhood education. it was some time ago, and my powers of recall fail me, insofar as details are concerned. i seem to remember a finding that suggested that children who live in homes with a certain minimum number of books do better in school than children from homes with no books. i think what it implied is that children of parents who were disposed to reading fared better in school.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

It should be a given that if dad likes baseball, chances are he is more likely to play ball with his kid(s) and they in turn have a leg up on the other kids who are not tossing balls and batting with their dads. Parents who read, tend to impart the importance of that activity to their children.

Back in the day when google wasn't a word, lots of semi affluent homes had a wall of encyclopedias somewhere. We had Funk & Wagnalls. It used to be a bragging point for households. You could even buy a set on credit with monthly payments and salesmen went door to door.

That was a wall of enchantment for me. I could open any volume to any page and there was a whole world laid out before me to discover. That process was finitely more engaging than Google or Wikipedia is today.

Kids that read, do better in life than those who who watch life on a screen. Your kids can't read if there are no books to open.

 

[Me_again]

my Canadian friend got involved in the regularization plan two years ago. he went to the offices with his Canadian Passport, and signed up for the program. when his documents returned, the stamp in his passport identified him as Haitian.

There's a message in that. Wish I knew what it was.

wbr

 

[Dr_Taylor]

My Mother taught me to read using the phonetics system. I could sound out unknown words at a really early age. I may not have known what a word meant, but I could read it.

I have to laugh, because that is how my elementary school teachers taught us. Of course, both Cdn_Gringo and I are dating ourselves, as the North American school strayed from this practice decades ago. However, it works, especially with a difficult language such as English. Also, my late grandmother used to correct my speech mercilessly. I was afraid to speak in her presence, so she would start asking questions, then correct my answers. My English is better than many an English major. As for Spanish, a German and Chilean stepped in.

 

[Africaida]

Gorgon although social media is a factor today it is not the cause of the issues we see in the DR regarding spelling and grammmar. The only thing social media does is expose it more readily. I remember twenty years ago in 1997 having conversations about this problem with a group of teachers. I understand what Africaida is saying and yes there will be even more decay but it is not the root cause.

I agree with dv8 that the internet and social media can actually help the problem if used properly. The wealth of information that resides on the internet is limitless. It is how you use it and tap into it. However, if people only use it for Facebook, Twitter, etc. then yes it is going to make the situation more chronic.

There is a wealth of educational programs in Spanish on the internet for all levels of education including adults. The Dominican government needs to get on board and start redefining the public educational program and give children access to these programs whether it is on a desktop computer or tablets. The possibility exists. I did volunteer work this week which entailed looking for educational programs for students in grade 3-6 in Guatemala. I did not go there it was an initiative through work that we do every year and kids learn via programs on tablets that we select. 

It is possible with the right leadership.


-MP.

I agree with everything you said. It is not the root of the problem, but it will definitely make things a lot worse. When on Social media, you write ke to go faster (heck, i even do it in French too), there won't be long until youngster do not know the difference. abbreviations/shortcuts are becoming the norms.

Social media are among the most visited websites on the web, sure youtube (2nd most visited website) could be used for a grammar or math tutorial but that s not what the younger generation use it for. The same kid who didn't go to the library in my days are the same ones who will not use the internet for its wealth of info nowadays.

This is coming from someone who has 2 kids at home, no cable TV and enough books to fill a children's library. One thing for sure, it is a constant battle

Funny story: When I decided to cut cable in my house , dear lord, you would have thought that someone past away. I swear that they would have taken the news better if I had decided to stop feeding them :laugh: They called their dad in tears, begging him to pay for cable. They even ask me not to mention it in front of their friends ! Good riddance, lol ! Streaming and Internet is more than enough (if not too much already), would never pay for ads filled cable again :smoke:

 

[the gorgon]

I have to laugh, because that is how my elementary school teachers taught us. Of course, both Cdn_Gringo and I are dating ourselves, as the North American school strayed from this practice decades ago. However, it works, especially with a difficult language such as English. Also, my late grandmother used to correct my speech mercilessly. I was afraid to speak in her presence, so she would start asking questions, then correct my answers. My English is better than many an English major. As for Spanish, a German and Chilean stepped in.

there is this human development metric called literacy, which addresses exactly what you guys are discussing. countries have different notions of literacy, and one of them is exactly what you refer to...the ability to phonetically sound out words. i believe that in certain academic fraternities, the term is decoding. a person can put letters together, and combine the individual sounds of the letters to create a spoken word.

that, in certain countries, is referred to as literacy. in other countries, there has to be a second step. the speaker of the word has to be able to use it in a sentence. i think Austraila has that criterion, if i am not mistaken. in other jurisdictions, you have to have attended a formal school for a period of time. so, there is no consensual definition of what literacy is, or is not.