- Thread starter cobraboy
- Start date
Living in the DR and Cynicism
I think there may be additional sources of cynicism.
-Many people coming here do so with a "holiday" mindset. That attitude can easily last over several vacations.
But at some point the holiday mindset vanishes and reality sets in. Big internal conflict, and that conflict creates some cynicism.
Living here f/t, not as a p/t snowbird resident, even in the middle of a tourist area is NOT a non-stop holiday.
Kinda reminds me of the old Peggy Lee song: "Is that all there is?"
-Some folks come here and refuse to really accept the country as it is. They still try living with baggage where they came from. They expect Dominicans to think and act as they do themselves. But Dominicans don't. So an attitude arises based on the expats inability to understand their new culture and not understanding ~why~ Dominicans won't be like them. And not accepting their new culture.
-Many people coming here do so with a "holiday" mindset. That attitude can easily last over several vacations.
But at some point the holiday mindset vanishes and reality sets in. Big internal conflict, and that conflict creates some cynicism.
Living here f/t, not as a p/t snowbird resident, even in the middle of a tourist area is NOT a non-stop holiday.
Kinda reminds me of the old Peggy Lee song: "Is that all there is?"
-Some folks come here and refuse to really accept the country as it is. They still try living with baggage where they came from. They expect Dominicans to think and act as they do themselves. But Dominicans don't. So an attitude arises based on the expats inability to understand their new culture and not understanding ~why~ Dominicans won't be like them. And not accepting their new culture.
Some people are just never satisfied and easily get annoyed if things are going not the way they imagined...
Im living on the North Coast and i am really HAPPY. And trying to avoid or shut up people who speak out their complains about dominicans.
The key is to put yourself in the position, background and situation of other person to understand why he/she acts this way.
Nobody and nothing can make us happy or unhappy. Its our own choice...
Im living on the North Coast and i am really HAPPY. And trying to avoid or shut up people who speak out their complains about dominicans.
The key is to put yourself in the position, background and situation of other person to understand why he/she acts this way.
Nobody and nothing can make us happy or unhappy. Its our own choice...
Exactly.... also, taking that a stage further when you hear someone say 'you make me so angry' - no, they didn't, as the same rule applies.
Whereas I would accept that those who sit at bars for most of the day (north coast/south coast or inland) get bored & then - for something to do - then they will get round to moaning about how many things go wrong with their life in 'The Paradise' they once envisaged, I feel that the whole essence of DR1 is to try to bring some form of 'Reality Check' to those who have not yet experienced the rigours of living here.
Many posters on DR1 read posts by people who think coming to live in the DR will be a doddle. Those with experience try to explain otherwise - that it takes teamwork (for a couple) & a load of networking as well as a need to understand that this country has its own way of doing things. Nothing we say or do seems to change this. As posters we try to indicate that it is up to US to integrate & adapt rather than fight the system head on.
Is this being cynical or is it being realistic?
I would contend that much of what is written here is mistaken as cynicism where in fact it is a desire to make the questioner (normally a newbie) see reality. Should that questioner respond in a positive manner of "I am willing to learn, please tell me more", then reality continues in abundance to that questioner. IF however, the questioner comes back with an 'Attitude' & an "I know better than you old fuddy duddies because ......", then they are treated to some examples that are embellished to make the point. THIS may come over as cynicism!!
I DO have my concerns for the country & its future. There are many things I would like to see changed, there are even more things that frustrate the H*ll out of me for 5 minutes or so .......... but I still think the DR is better than most countries, I am still happier here than I ever was in my home country (or other countries that I have visited & lived in) & there are NO plans to move on from here unless civil unrest gets to a level I consider too dangerous to remain in the DR. However, a 'CIVILISED' first world country will not be on my list of possible new homes IF such a decision was ever made.
IF I am ever considered to be cynical about the DR I can assure you I can be three or four times MORE cynical about first world countries!! :surprised ~ Grahame.
Many posters on DR1 read posts by people who think coming to live in the DR will be a doddle. Those with experience try to explain otherwise - that it takes teamwork (for a couple) & a load of networking as well as a need to understand that this country has its own way of doing things. Nothing we say or do seems to change this. As posters we try to indicate that it is up to US to integrate & adapt rather than fight the system head on.
Is this being cynical or is it being realistic?
I would contend that much of what is written here is mistaken as cynicism where in fact it is a desire to make the questioner (normally a newbie) see reality. Should that questioner respond in a positive manner of "I am willing to learn, please tell me more", then reality continues in abundance to that questioner. IF however, the questioner comes back with an 'Attitude' & an "I know better than you old fuddy duddies because ......", then they are treated to some examples that are embellished to make the point. THIS may come over as cynicism!!
I DO have my concerns for the country & its future. There are many things I would like to see changed, there are even more things that frustrate the H*ll out of me for 5 minutes or so .......... but I still think the DR is better than most countries, I am still happier here than I ever was in my home country (or other countries that I have visited & lived in) & there are NO plans to move on from here unless civil unrest gets to a level I consider too dangerous to remain in the DR. However, a 'CIVILISED' first world country will not be on my list of possible new homes IF such a decision was ever made.
IF I am ever considered to be cynical about the DR I can assure you I can be three or four times MORE cynical about first world countries!! :surprised ~ Grahame.
BushBaby I have never found any of your posts to be cynical and I always find the information and experiences you share to be most helpful!
There is a big difference between the information you provide to newbies or those that may have lived in the country for several years in order to assist in some way to let people know what the reality of the country is and the posts provided by some that are just downright cynical and degrading to the country and it's people.
I cannot speak for the OP but I think he was referring to posts by people who consistently say Dominicans are no gooders who will screw you, and about people that consistently post about their bad experiences with locals or local establishments, or road problems or police problems, etc. and blame it on the country and the lack of education, etc. of the people. Those types of posts make one wonder why the heck the person is living in the Dominican Republic in the first place if it's so darn bad!
I have never ever thought for one moment that you Lambada were not the best type of expats to be living in the DR and the country is lucky to have people like the two of you! I read Lambada's book and I was impressed with all the things you both have done to understand the country and it's people and to integrate to the best degree and make it your new home.
Good points.
I wasn't pointing the finger at anyone in particular. Just pointing out a trend I see and pondering "why?"
Good Memories From Afar
More or less on a holiday... :tired:
And: Several years ago life here was much different ...
donP
More or less on a holiday... :tired:
And: Several years ago life here was much different ...
FM's mindset then?
donP
Tip of a Dung Heap
The bigger the town / city the more crime gets reported in the papers because that's were the journalists and TV stations are.
Police try to downplay / hide crimes (whenever possible) especially in touristy places. The smaller the place is the more success they have in doing so.
I know of numerous murders, house invasions and substantial robberies, etc. which never made it to the press.
Whatever is reported on DR1 is very little of all that (because... well you know :cheeky: )
donP
The bigger the town / city the more crime gets reported in the papers because that's were the journalists and TV stations are.
Police try to downplay / hide crimes (whenever possible) especially in touristy places. The smaller the place is the more success they have in doing so.
I know of numerous murders, house invasions and substantial robberies, etc. which never made it to the press.
Whatever is reported on DR1 is very little of all that (because... well you know :cheeky: )
donP
The Grumblers
Maybe you wonder because you do not live here?
And then:
A person's decision to live here is nobody else's business.
Whoever lives here (and may even pay taxes!) has the right to be as grumpy as any Dominican (who may even not pay taxes).
donP
Maybe you wonder because you do not live here?
And then:
A person's decision to live here is nobody else's business.
Whoever lives here (and may even pay taxes!) has the right to be as grumpy as any Dominican (who may even not pay taxes).
donP
Call it what you want but I probably know more about how the DR works than many who live there "full-time". My experience is not based on a few visits to the country. I am married to a Dominican, we own property there, we are in the country often, we speak to family on a daily basis and have more than a vested interest in the country. I certainly don't need to justify my views - no one else has had to. Perhaps my post hit a little close to home for some
Call it what you want but I probably know more about how the DR works than many who live there "full-time". My experience is not based on a few visits to the country. I am married to a Dominican, we own property there, we are in the country often, we speak to family on a daily basis and have more than a vested interest in the country. I certainly don't need to justify my views - no one else has had to. Perhaps my post hit a little close to home for some
Good answer. I don't live in the DR, YET, but visit every year and my wife has daily contact because of her school. Thanks to computers and Magic Jack, she is up to date on all that is going on, whether it be local, countrywide, political, financial...etc.
Yes, just like in most countries where the "haves" are supporting the "have nots" ...it sucks to pay taxes when a large percentage of people arent, feel that pain everyday:ermm:. This is not endemic to DR.
It certainly isn't - here in the UK us "haves" are certainly feeling the pain. Hence the change of government next month! :ermm:
Rio
Thank you for your kind words Fiesta Mama. We have a classic example of what you said above and what I said here
In a thread in Living
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/102477-country-so-screwed-up.html
Again, I don't know if that fits Cobraboy's definition of cynicism or not. But it does add another dimension to the cynicism being geographical. I'm cross linking because there is so much learning material (for those who can see it) and those who want to learn are more likely to look for a thread about Living in the DR than one called This Country is so Screwed Up :cheeky:. And the classic example is of what Fiesta Mama posts
So the cynicism can be seen to come from having to rely on others, feeling therefore at the mercy of others, feeling powerless, not knowing what to do about it (although it's fairly obvious), dealing with their own problems not in a responsible way but in a way which blames others but not oneself. And any 'others' will do as far as blaming is concerned.
All of these things are a matter of choice. We expats do have the ultimate decision in how we choose to live our lives. I am reminded of those many Dominican expats who live in the US or elsewhere, face huge challenges, who don't moan and complain but just get on with it.
I think those of us who are expats in the DR could learn a lot from Dominicans who have expatriated.
i did not read more than a dozen of the answers on this thread, so i answer just to the theme as a whole like started,not to specific answers afterwards, a great idea of a thread Robert, btw, interesting theme tho.
from my point of view on the north coast where i spent my own just less than 6 months in a row and that been 15 years ago, the expats live in their own closed community, they eat their german weisswurst, wiener schnitzel, drink german imported beer, some manage to have once in a while a local chic, none speaks real spanish.
hey, that's not meant as any kind of offence.
that is my personal opinion about my own experienced point of view about Puerto Plata and Sosua a decade and a half ago, i am myself German and i life since 15 years in punta cana now.
a few years ago i've been back up there on the north together with a friend who lives in punta cana since over 10 years now, like a lil revival weekend, we spent 5 days up there, but what he did and dragged me in been the exactly """going to the schnitzel and weisswusrt places""" and aside of meeting 2-3 guys i knew from long years ago who still been working and living there i found the whole 'revival trip' as a waste of time and money on Gas to go there.
in Punta Cana the years ago situation been different, you had to extremely different ways to live down here.
** 1st been the typical one and very similar to the one i experienced on the north coast, the one where for example a tourrep or newbie at a diving center comes down here, meets only all the ''cool???''' guys of his own nationality/or at least foreign nationality at the bars and clubs where he would within a short time not be able to pay his drinks due his future not enough salary as a dive assistance to do so, where they meet all those hot chics which of course waited their whole life just for that specific big guy to finally show up, none of them speaks any spanish after many years of course, most anyways did not survive many years, they come and go each month, they life within their own foreigner/Expats made fences and trap themselves within those borders, they can live here 20 years and will not understand any real word even if they would have learned some phrases of spanish, many do not even manage that lil thingy.
** and the 2nd part down here is the smaller crowd which moves right away in with the locals, with real dominican people the above crowd doesn't even know about their existence, some even meet a real dominican female/male and start to live together, doesn't matter the guy or Gal works for a diving school, a touroperator or runs his/her own business, lives in a wooden hut or in a nice Condo within a residence, and those are the maybe 2-5 percent of the expats who get to know the dominican republic. the ones who live the islandlife with the local family on daily bases, again, it doesn't matter if such happens on a low society level or on a high economy level with unlimited bucks available.
for sure the latter of both is the small group who learns automatically the language of this country, which is the first step of all to get in touch with locality, there is absolute no way around that one. they are the ones i would by my own understanding name Expats, b/c they expatriated themselves from their country of origin and Integrated themselves into the community of a new country, their new choosen residence.
heck,
if i read something about somebody who lives since very long years down here and still is not able to really understand his wife's explanations about a publically by speaker trucks announced advice about a power outing in his area planned and officially announced by the apropriate guys,
darn,
then i really think for MYSELF "what the heck been that guy communicating the last 15 years with his native Wife???", could he ever explain what kinda food he likes?, how he wanna get his pasta or breakfast eggs?, could he ever manage to find out how she would like to live with him? etc etc etc
that's an example of what i do not name an real Expat,
personally i do not accept at leats 80 percent of the so self named Expats as real expats. i name them just long term visitors who will def never ever understand any of the country or it's original people or their needs/likings/way of life, not in a hundred years. they are in my eyes the ones who will everywhere right away always be named just 'the gringo' where ever on any beautiful countryside they may visit in what ever company.
Mike
from my point of view on the north coast where i spent my own just less than 6 months in a row and that been 15 years ago, the expats live in their own closed community, they eat their german weisswurst, wiener schnitzel, drink german imported beer, some manage to have once in a while a local chic, none speaks real spanish.
hey, that's not meant as any kind of offence.
that is my personal opinion about my own experienced point of view about Puerto Plata and Sosua a decade and a half ago, i am myself German and i life since 15 years in punta cana now.
a few years ago i've been back up there on the north together with a friend who lives in punta cana since over 10 years now, like a lil revival weekend, we spent 5 days up there, but what he did and dragged me in been the exactly """going to the schnitzel and weisswusrt places""" and aside of meeting 2-3 guys i knew from long years ago who still been working and living there i found the whole 'revival trip' as a waste of time and money on Gas to go there.
in Punta Cana the years ago situation been different, you had to extremely different ways to live down here.
** 1st been the typical one and very similar to the one i experienced on the north coast, the one where for example a tourrep or newbie at a diving center comes down here, meets only all the ''cool???''' guys of his own nationality/or at least foreign nationality at the bars and clubs where he would within a short time not be able to pay his drinks due his future not enough salary as a dive assistance to do so, where they meet all those hot chics which of course waited their whole life just for that specific big guy to finally show up, none of them speaks any spanish after many years of course, most anyways did not survive many years, they come and go each month, they life within their own foreigner/Expats made fences and trap themselves within those borders, they can live here 20 years and will not understand any real word even if they would have learned some phrases of spanish, many do not even manage that lil thingy.
** and the 2nd part down here is the smaller crowd which moves right away in with the locals, with real dominican people the above crowd doesn't even know about their existence, some even meet a real dominican female/male and start to live together, doesn't matter the guy or Gal works for a diving school, a touroperator or runs his/her own business, lives in a wooden hut or in a nice Condo within a residence, and those are the maybe 2-5 percent of the expats who get to know the dominican republic. the ones who live the islandlife with the local family on daily bases, again, it doesn't matter if such happens on a low society level or on a high economy level with unlimited bucks available.
for sure the latter of both is the small group who learns automatically the language of this country, which is the first step of all to get in touch with locality, there is absolute no way around that one. they are the ones i would by my own understanding name Expats, b/c they expatriated themselves from their country of origin and Integrated themselves into the community of a new country, their new choosen residence.
heck,
if i read something about somebody who lives since very long years down here and still is not able to really understand his wife's explanations about a publically by speaker trucks announced advice about a power outing in his area planned and officially announced by the apropriate guys,
darn,
then i really think for MYSELF "what the heck been that guy communicating the last 15 years with his native Wife???", could he ever explain what kinda food he likes?, how he wanna get his pasta or breakfast eggs?, could he ever manage to find out how she would like to live with him? etc etc etc
that's an example of what i do not name an real Expat,
personally i do not accept at leats 80 percent of the so self named Expats as real expats. i name them just long term visitors who will def never ever understand any of the country or it's original people or their needs/likings/way of life, not in a hundred years. they are in my eyes the ones who will everywhere right away always be named just 'the gringo' where ever on any beautiful countryside they may visit in what ever company.
Mike