No one of the other 299 that aren't controlled by the American government. Usually called re-education camps.
- Thread starter edm7583
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Mrs Clintons Bombshell. Cuba opening up to US!
No one of the other 299 that aren't controlled by the American government. Usually called re-education camps.
Not for political prisoners.
Fact: Cuba still maintains political prisons, places for folks to be sent for simple disagreement with the Communist regime currently in power. I know some folks who have been in a Cuban prison for what they thought. I know folks whose parents died in a Cuban political prison.
Certainly, Cuba has always been unable to support itself without tourism (like the DR). But at least tourists to the DR aren't supporting a gubmint that has specific prisons for political dissidents. Cuban tourists cannot say that.
Human Rights Watch said:
Castro
Just sayin'...
Enjoy your trip to Cuba.
I'll stay in the DR where at least the politicans just scream at their opponents instead of putting them in jail.
So your equating the terrorists in GITMO with the thousands of political prisoners in Cuba political prisons?
I will admit that when a political opponent takes up arms against a government, they cross the line; hence places like GITMO (and soon to be in the US ans scattered around the world)(of course, there are those who say that the US "had it coming", and were hoping for a radical Muslim victory against the Coalition aggression against an innocent, sovereign nation).
But you think the political prisoners in Cuba took up arms against Castro? I can definitively tell you of folks whose family members in those political prisons did NOT cross that "line".
I love hearing folks make kind rationalizations for a murderous, toltalitarian regime. I wonder if folks would speak so fondly of it if the terrain and weather resembled Mongolia.
"I love hearing folks make kind rationalizations for a murderous, toltalitarian regime. I wonder if folks would speak so fondly of it if the terrain and weather resembled Mongolia."
Who was doing that? I certainly wasn't.
Making false accusations by misrepresenting what was actually said is a tactic used by those governments you rightfully describe as totalitarian regimes.
The ends might justify the means, but it take a huge moral toll.
Who was doing that? I certainly wasn't.
Making false accusations by misrepresenting what was actually said is a tactic used by those governments you rightfully describe as totalitarian regimes.
The ends might justify the means, but it take a huge moral toll.
I've enjoyed my trips to Cuba to visit relatives both in Havanna and Hamel ( little village on the other end) closest to Haiti. I've spent time in Santiago de Cuba also. I have not stayed in an A1. I really enjoyed the scenery and the people. The food in restaurants was not great. The food I eat in the countryside was the same as in the DR, Moro, pork, chicken, plantains, fruit - very good. Infrastructure is crumbling except the roads which I found to be perfectly fine. Lack of paint very evident in many areas. Cubans say "Cuba es no facil " They say this for many reasons - mainly because that they can say without getting into trouble. Definitely not impressed by the way the police treat the average Cuban. What I personally would like to see is more of the Historical buildings, forts...etc which they have done a very good job of preserving. Cuba can become a tourist mecca but will always have a different feel than the DR, which is good and tourists will go to both places. As for the comment about Americans spending more than others, perhaps wasting more that others would be more accurate. I'm one Canadian that can spend money like water.
Well, if you think about it, anyone can think up any number of reasons not to visit any country (you should hear what I've heard some people say about the DR). But that type of judgmental, self-righteous thinking would leave you with very few travel choices indeed.
For example, I think that Communist china has perpetrated some of the most heinous human rights violations imaginable, including displacing thousands of dirt poor people in order to host the last Olympic games. But as a country, China contains some of the world's most significant cultural treasures. That makes it a very popular tourist destination. One which I plan on visiting one day.
And we're not even going to talk about many African countries I could name (which are also on my personal to do list).
Bottom line, I really doubt most American tourists (especially the AI variety) will let Cuba's political prisons deter them from going there. And others still find Cuba's beauty and rich culture very compelling.
Vince.
For example, I think that Communist china has perpetrated some of the most heinous human rights violations imaginable, including displacing thousands of dirt poor people in order to host the last Olympic games. But as a country, China contains some of the world's most significant cultural treasures. That makes it a very popular tourist destination. One which I plan on visiting one day.
And we're not even going to talk about many African countries I could name (which are also on my personal to do list).
Bottom line, I really doubt most American tourists (especially the AI variety) will let Cuba's political prisons deter them from going there. And others still find Cuba's beauty and rich culture very compelling.
Vince.
OR if there were extremely profitable oil interests at risk.
Nah. If that was the case, we'd just bomb it back to the stone age and call it "Liberation".
LOL!!!!!
Vince.
Then again...
The lift of the US imposed Embargo on Cuba will have an initial impact over US tourists flow to the DR, but given that even if that was to be played out; the Cuban gov is not going to fold tent and drop their communist ways in droves to adopt the freedom loving hippies from the US with open arms.
As I said: They'll travel to Cuba as the new sizzling hot destination in the Caribbean, but given the total control the Cuban gov holds over every inch of the internal system there, the outlook of an emerging Cuban monster that will eat the DR's tourism industry for good is laughable to say the least.
Like I said: The DR is currently moving into the mid to high scale geared tourism industry. The aftermath of AIs is that resources are greatly impacted while the expected windfalls never materialized. Once the DR moved to higher scale models and ecotourism projects, the pay offs have been growing ever since. Try and book a cheap weekender escape in Punta Cana or La Romana and see for yourself how much things changed since the AI years.
I see a post-embargo Cuba as a plus in the future for the DR's tourism industry. The market that SHOULD be worrying about a run for their money once the embargo is lifted would be the FL one. No other market will be most impacted from such event than that of Miami and surrounding enclaves. Cuba's casinos will make Miami's tourism look like a gambling cruise ship at the edge of Las Vegas strip...
Case closed!
The lift of the US imposed Embargo on Cuba will have an initial impact over US tourists flow to the DR, but given that even if that was to be played out; the Cuban gov is not going to fold tent and drop their communist ways in droves to adopt the freedom loving hippies from the US with open arms.
As I said: They'll travel to Cuba as the new sizzling hot destination in the Caribbean, but given the total control the Cuban gov holds over every inch of the internal system there, the outlook of an emerging Cuban monster that will eat the DR's tourism industry for good is laughable to say the least.
Like I said: The DR is currently moving into the mid to high scale geared tourism industry. The aftermath of AIs is that resources are greatly impacted while the expected windfalls never materialized. Once the DR moved to higher scale models and ecotourism projects, the pay offs have been growing ever since. Try and book a cheap weekender escape in Punta Cana or La Romana and see for yourself how much things changed since the AI years.
I see a post-embargo Cuba as a plus in the future for the DR's tourism industry. The market that SHOULD be worrying about a run for their money once the embargo is lifted would be the FL one. No other market will be most impacted from such event than that of Miami and surrounding enclaves. Cuba's casinos will make Miami's tourism look like a gambling cruise ship at the edge of Las Vegas strip...
Case closed!
The first thing I see happening is that Cuban families will again be allow to visit the island more frequently, that being a departure from the Bush administration 1 visit per three year nonsense. The embargo will take longer to rescind, perhaps years even under Obama's administration. The talk about all these Americans flooding the island as tourist to the detriment of DR tourism, is I believe premature.
Yes I can understand that regret. Other than South Africa it is the only place I cried when I left.
The first time I went was in 1998 but in a resort and for years I could not get the Cuban people out of my mind and it didnt matter how many other places I travelled to, I would always think about returning.
I believe the people make the place!!! I was so drawn to go back and see and learn and discover more...the truth from the Cuban people living there....not American or Cuban propaganda.
Found out I had a distant relative there (there is a large Jamaican population there, especially in Santiago, where I experinced the best Carnival in the world, who arrived before the revolution . Was surprised you can actually get a Jamaican radio station there cause it is so close...and helped some people get their parents Jamaican birth certificate so they could apply for a Jamaican passport at the JA embassy in Cuba).
I met so many Americans travelling illegally there. In my stay maybe 50. Not telling people to break any laws but all those I met never had a problem. The Cuban immigration never stamped the Americans passports (actually didnt stamp my Canadian passport either?) they want them to come and their money! They just flew from Toronto or Mexico.
I was there when Castro became sick and transferred power to his brother. Very intersting time. The Cuban family I was staying with in Havana had illegal satellite TV and internet (black market enterprise) so it was interesting to see what the American TV stations were broadcasting about was happening and going to happen in Cuba (especially the Miami stations) as I was 'experiencing' what was REALLY happening. An experience to say the least.
Am I saying everything is right and perfect or I agree with everything about the political system...absolutely not...I also saw things that made me mad and cry. I am not denying that there are many human rights violations that have happened and are happening. Like I would hate to see what would happen if it was discovered my Cuban friend had internet or satellite TV. And I understand as a traveller my reality is not the same reality of someone living there year after year. But we are not talking about living there but about travelling there.
But as my Cuban friend who was in the military, but works in the high sectors of tourism and has travelled and lived in the Western world for a few years said to me, "there are good and bad things about my country, its not all bad and its not all good the world needs to know that, so when you go home just tell people the truth, people dont know the truth about Cuba."
Could I live longterm in Cuba, no not now.
But would I recommend it as a Caribbean travel destination (not the AI resorts), especially for someone who wants to be immersed in the very unique amazing local culture and the arts, in relative safety....yes 100 times!
Go to Cuba for the people not the politics!
BTW my biggest regret was not taking a video camera with me! I would have loved to record many of the artists I met and share it with people. I say that one of the greatest sins is that most of the world will never experience some of these artist!!!
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I've always wondered how Dick Cheney's oil ever got under Venezuelan soil - stupid geo-illogical stuff! Oil should know better.
Oil, you are on notice!
"I've always wondered how Dick Cheney's oil ever got under Venezuelan soil - stupid geo-illogical stuff! Oil should know better."
I thought that was all sorted out at the little get together Cheney had with his oily friends back in 2001.
It was clearly decided that all underground oil belongs to Halburton, and will be allocated on a "as needed" basis. Venezula is just ****ed because they expected more , but it is obvious they simply don't need more. They are so piggy.
I thought that was all sorted out at the little get together Cheney had with his oily friends back in 2001.
It was clearly decided that all underground oil belongs to Halburton, and will be allocated on a "as needed" basis. Venezula is just ****ed because they expected more , but it is obvious they simply don't need more. They are so piggy.
It seems that I've steered this thread in another direction. And I apologize for doing so. I just feel that the foriegn policy employed by the U.S. over the past decade or so has placed all Americans (including myself) in a glass house. And I personally refuse to throw any stones.
Bottom line. Relatively few Americans would refuse to travel to Cuba for political reasons. But I can think of many reasons why they would spend their tourist dollars there.
Furthermore, any agreement between the two countries that resulted in a reduction of travel restrictions would undoubtedly include provisions that guarantee U.S. investment in it's interests there.
It doesn't take an expert to predict that an entirely new top knotch tourist destination less than an hour's flight away from Miami would serve to attract a ton of U.S. tourist dollars. And all other caribbean tourist markets would be affected. However, which markets would be most effected is still up for debate.
Vince.
Bottom line. Relatively few Americans would refuse to travel to Cuba for political reasons. But I can think of many reasons why they would spend their tourist dollars there.
Furthermore, any agreement between the two countries that resulted in a reduction of travel restrictions would undoubtedly include provisions that guarantee U.S. investment in it's interests there.
It doesn't take an expert to predict that an entirely new top knotch tourist destination less than an hour's flight away from Miami would serve to attract a ton of U.S. tourist dollars. And all other caribbean tourist markets would be affected. However, which markets would be most effected is still up for debate.
Vince.
Not everyone happy about new open Cuba!
Totally agree!
We need direct flights ASAP!!!! To have a democratic choice where and to whom to spend our money. Some people in Sosua will have to start working at last. But it is only good. Too much sun bathing and tan is dangerous for health.:cheeky:
But not everyone is happy with openning of Cuba. Hiding in Cuba criminals, murderers, killers, molesters, highjackers, tax avaiders. All of them will become exposed and reacheable to law and justice finally. This is only good too. (We do not have persons hiding from law and justice here in Sosua correct?)
We need direct flights ASAP!!
No matter how beautiful DR is, rip-off and fraud at every step is killing all its beauty.
In last five-six years this beautiful island especially Sosua became nothing but shameless greed, RE fraud and immoral criminal manipulation.
We need direct flights ASAP!!!
God Bless Barak Hussein Obama for giving back beautiful nonexpensive Cuba to us!!!!! God bless the real democracy that finally prevailed after years of tyranny and inflated RE bubbles!
Cuba thaw, good or bad? US fugitives unsure - Yahoo! News
Totally agree!
We need direct flights ASAP!!!! To have a democratic choice where and to whom to spend our money. Some people in Sosua will have to start working at last. But it is only good. Too much sun bathing and tan is dangerous for health.:cheeky:
But not everyone is happy with openning of Cuba. Hiding in Cuba criminals, murderers, killers, molesters, highjackers, tax avaiders. All of them will become exposed and reacheable to law and justice finally. This is only good too. (We do not have persons hiding from law and justice here in Sosua correct?)
We need direct flights ASAP!!
No matter how beautiful DR is, rip-off and fraud at every step is killing all its beauty.
In last five-six years this beautiful island especially Sosua became nothing but shameless greed, RE fraud and immoral criminal manipulation.
We need direct flights ASAP!!!
God Bless Barak Hussein Obama for giving back beautiful nonexpensive Cuba to us!!!!! God bless the real democracy that finally prevailed after years of tyranny and inflated RE bubbles!
Cuba thaw, good or bad? US fugitives unsure - Yahoo! News
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This is the best. To have always choice. Options.
To give carrot (dollar) to the one of two who wants to work harder for it , to jump higher and to kiss hotter.
We want direct flight ASAP!! Continental do you hear??!! :chinese:
I wonder where Puerto Ricans will be traveling to?
I'm sure nobody cares about them.
I mean, they are only a very large percentage of the U.S. citizens visiting the DR on a yearly basis.
Oh yes, and let's not forget U.S. citizens born in the U.S. of Dominican parents visiting every year.
And oh yes, how can we forget the U.S. naturalized Dominicans.
Hm, not all "Americans" visiting the DR are gringos.
Food for thought. :cheeky:
-NALs
I'm sure nobody cares about them.
I mean, they are only a very large percentage of the U.S. citizens visiting the DR on a yearly basis.
Oh yes, and let's not forget U.S. citizens born in the U.S. of Dominican parents visiting every year.
And oh yes, how can we forget the U.S. naturalized Dominicans.
Hm, not all "Americans" visiting the DR are gringos.
Food for thought. :cheeky:
-NALs
Are you assuming that they'll never vacation in Cuba?
I'm sure that many of the Americans who vacation in the DR, including Puerto Ricans and Dominicans, will continue to do so. But to assume that these individuals would never vacation in Cuba, given the chance, is a stretch in logic.
You don't have to be a "gringo" to appreciate new experiences. And who wants to vacation in the same place all of the time? Are you saying that Puerto Ricans and Dominicans are "hand cuffed" to the DR. You don't think that they're interested in traveling to new places and doing new things? C'mon man. Why are you doing this?
And why wouldn't we care about Puerto Ricans?:ermm:
Vince.