My attempt to get Residencia Definitiva not going well

[nekokatt]

Windy
I "third" that - get a lawyer! This is an governmental internal mess that requires someone experienced to sort out and fix

I see you spoke to Guzman - they have been here for 100 years so they should know the ins & outs and connections and get it all straightened out. They should also be able to find 'Milady' (DR bar association or junta professional) or the whereabouts of your file with her which would be very helpful

bueno suerte

 

[HDR]

WW and nekokatt, I have my actual first permanent residency card from 2004, which was valid for 2 years, and of course my current about to expire 4 year card. I spoke to DR1's official lawyer firm today and she explained that she had one other case like mine, so I am up to knowing about 4 others at this point, where there was a similar problem. She explained that if I were to "start over" in my case it would mean one year of temporary residency and then I could get a 10 year residency or apply for citizenship after that. She is going to let me know if there is a way to "fix" the problem without going through that. She said something to the effect that there are so many people who do not understand the law, that mistakes are made. Clueless employees. Or it is just fraud that they can "fix" if the right person "does" the right things.

Make that 5... 3-4 years ago I was there to renew my Permanent Residency (issued 2003) during the Hipolito era. They told me there was no file at all... And of course here the customer is always wrong. I had a lawyer investigate but there was nothing to do about it. They put me back on temporary residency for 1 year, then Permanent Residency for 2 and now I recently renewed it and got 4 years... Migration here is like a box of chocolate :ermm:

 

[Olly]

Hi Windy, Sorry to hear about you problems with your residency. We had a similar situation arise in about 2012 and got it resolved when they had the "Amnesty" in August 2012. We had to pay for all the back years and the fines which were huge but got our Residencies straightened out. We were also told our file had been lost and there were irregularities.

What our lawyer did was to find the original Temporary Residency File in Migration - it was still there. It had been done correctly and then worked from that. It showed we had made a proper application and indeed had renewed with the two year. From then on there was nothing but because of the Amnesty and the fact the original file was there she was able to sort it out. I hope this information helps and you might want to instruct you Lawyer to look for the original files from 2003 - if that was the year you applied for Residency. Then you might only have to deal with the missing years and pay the fines but it might be better than starting over. Just a suggestio

 

[RDKNIGHT]

you want your cedula or Residency ask them how many Ben Franklin,...that's the quickiest way .. money talks here ....enough with the process the process is how bennies under the table...

 

[Linda Stapleton]

That really sucks. Can’t even imagine that frustration...
I wonder how many of us aren’t really in the system??????!!!!

Well, I have to start this process soon so will find out soon enough if I am part of this unhappy band of people who were defrauded. What an absolute hassle for you, Windeguy, and everyone else in this situation.

 

[Linda Stapleton]

I'm wondering if the problem is only arising for people applying for the definativa or if it can also crop up for those doing a 4 year renewal of the permanent residency. I'm almost tempted to go for the shorter period if it is the checking back of the records that opens the can of worms..... has anyone had this problem with a standard renewal?

 

[rubio_higuey]

Permanent -> Definitiva is the same process as Temporary -> Permanent. They dig up your file to review the first day of your residency (counts apparently from the date of your residency application), at least in my case their response indicated I had residency since December 2012 which is the time I applied for my first Temp.

The renewal goes through the computer system now, so your uploaded docs are compared to those on file. If the file is missing or is incomplete... that would be a problem as well. And renewals now take 2+ weeks (was told by DGM PUJ 3 weeks is not uncommon), as they do background checks and dig up the file as indicated once you submit the paperwork online.

 

[nekokatt]

Linda, thats interesting. Given that residency has to be renewed every 2 years (How did one get 4?) and these problem records are probably before 2012 (Medina) sounds like they didnt check records fully (ie, only the current period) for Renewals??? whereas Definativa surely require verification of 10 years worth. Naturalization probably not affected either as you only need to have at least 6 months remaining of a Permanent residency.

 

[nekokatt]

I posted before seeing Rubio's #67. I guess my case is different as went Fast Track (Rentier investor) and got permanent immediately. And yes everything is computerized. Saw my info for verification. Very nice. (and anyone who went to DGM before 2013, the offices are very nice and modernized as well)

 

[rubio_higuey]

Linda, thats interesting. Given that residency has to be renewed every 2 years (How did one get 4?) and these problem records are probably before 2012 (Medina) sounds like they didnt check records fully (ie, only the current period) for Renewals??? whereas Definativa surely require verification of 10 years worth. Naturalization probably not affected either as you only need to have at least 6 months remaining of a Permanent residency.

Investment permanent residency or retirement permanent residency is renewed every 2 years and does not require medical. Regular permanent residency is done every 4 years and requires medical. Also for investment/retirement you have to keep proving your income & solvency at renewals while regular PR does not require that.

 

[nekokatt]

Investment permanent residency or retirement permanent residency is renewed every 2 years and does not require medical. Regular permanent residency is done every 4 years and requires medical. Also for investment/retirement you have to keep proving your income & solvency at renewals while regular PR does not require that.

Muchas Gracias! Neither 3 lawyers and no articles either explain this difference all this time! Mi compra Su una fria!

 

[william webster]

Permanent -> Definitiva is the same process as Temporary -> Permanent. They dig up your file to review the first day of your residency (counts apparently from the date of your residency application), at least in my case their response indicated I had residency since December 2012 which is the time I applied for my first Temp.

The renewal goes through the computer system now, so your uploaded docs are compared to those on file. If the file is missing or is incomplete... that would be a problem as well. And renewals now take 2+ weeks (was told by DGM PUJ 3 weeks is not uncommon), as they do background checks and dig up the file as indicated once you submit the paperwork online.

As usual... situations can vary...

I was just refused 'Definitiva' ..... my original application was January 2008.
My application was this past April.
By your statement I should have squeaked in.

Nope - they counted from Permanent .... so I lost a year in the translation.

maybe next time....

 

[RDKNIGHT]

pay under the table mcfly

 

[william webster]

After you , MacDuff

the 'old boy' system is dead....
I used to get whisked behind those doors & down the hall.....
in/Out in a couple of hours....

No more shenanigans - things are much more on the up & up

I got that sitting next to a Guzman lawyer last week -
everything thing on the 'up & up'.

I tend to believe it

 

[windeguy]

As usual... situations can vary...

I was just refused 'Definitiva' ..... my original application was January 2008.
My application was this past April.
By your statement I should have squeaked in.

Nope - they counted from Permanent .... so I lost a year in the translation.

maybe next time....

Temporary residency periods don't count toward being able to get Definitiva . You have to have 10 years of Permanent Residency to qualify for Definitiva.

 

[william webster]

Rubio posted otherwise- so I wrote my experience

I agree with you ... not him

 

[windeguy]

After you , MacDuff

the 'old boy' system is dead....
I used to get whisked behind those doors & down the hall.....
in/Out in a couple of hours....

No more shenanigans - things are much more on the up & up

I got that sitting next to a Guzman lawyer last week -
everything thing on the 'up & up'.

I tend to believe it

Perhaps it is more real now, but I suspect there is still fraud.

I spoke to a number of people, including the lawyer who handles Migraction for Guzman Ariza in Santo Domingo. She told me she had one other case like mine and she was able to help without starting over. She also told me that starting over in my cause based upon the regulation applied to it meant that I have to get one year of temporary residency and then I could get definitiva immediately after that. Somehow my past permanent residencies would count toward Definitiva. It is like I have to go back in time to create a record of having one year of Temporary Residency in the system. That makes little sense, but regulations and laws often make little sense. I will know more next week.

I sent away for Apostilled birth certificates, since I will need them no matter what path I now have to take unless the "back door lawyer let's have a di$cu$$ion and clear this up " method can still work.

 

[william webster]

I would go with Guzman on this
Or HBs general

It’s an irregular situation ... rare enough... to call for sophisticated help

I do not think you’ll need to start over totally... hopefully

 

[windeguy]

Hi Windy, Sorry to hear about you problems with your residency. We had a similar situation arise in about 2012 and got it resolved when they had the "Amnesty" in August 2012. We had to pay for all the back years and the fines which were huge but got our Residencies straightened out. We were also told our file had been lost and there were irregularities.

What our lawyer did was to find the original Temporary Residency File in Migration - it was still there. It had been done correctly and then worked from that. It showed we had made a proper application and indeed had renewed with the two year. From then on there was nothing but because of the Amnesty and the fact the original file was there she was able to sort it out. I hope this information helps and you might want to instruct you Lawyer to look for the original files from 2003 - if that was the year you applied for Residency. Then you might only have to deal with the missing years and pay the fines but it might be better than starting over. Just a suggestio

Dealing with fines and missing years would cause a bit more rage for me since I have my first permanent residency card from 2004 and of course my recent card. I don't think the Permanent Residencies are at question from that I was told by the lawyer for Guzman Ariza. It is the one year temporary residency that has an irregularity.

In my specific situation, the worst case scenario is a regulation just for this issue that is actually called a "regularization", with one year of temporary residency and then all of my permanent residency periods once again magically do count for me. That is, if the lawyer for Guzman Ariza is correct, and she had all of the paperwork that Migracion sent to me for her review when telling me this. The regulation is "Resolucion DEM-1-2012, para la Regularizacion de Procedimientos de Residencias con irregularidades de Procesos." A Dominican Time Machine.

 

[bob saunders]

Dealing with fines and missing years would cause a bit more rage for me since I have my first permanent residency card from 2004 and of course my recent card. I don't think the Permanent Resiencies are at question from that I was told by the lawyer for Guzman Ariza.

In my specific situation, the worst case scenario is a regulation just for this issue that is actually called a "regularization", with one year of temporary residency and then all of my permanent residency periods once again magically do count for me. That is, if the lawyer for Guzman Ariza is correct, and she had all of the paperwork that Migracion sent to me for her review when telling me this. The regulation is "Resolucion DEM-1-2012, para la Regularizacion de Procedimientos de Residencias con irregularidades de Procesos." A Dominican Time Machine.

Why don't you just go the citizenship route and skip all this bull****?