- Thread starter Dolores1
- Start date
Possible US crash implications for DR
Berzin;
I would ask you the simple question of , Why would the Corporate US cut their own throat by being "predatory"?
You have an entirely different slant on the causative factors of the downturn of the economy in this global scenario than many others.
This downturn is haveing a severe impact on the economy worldwide at this time and the cause is primarily in the mortgage banking sector wherein those facillities "bought" flawed mortgage paper without investigating the strength of that paper.
The "predatory" allegataion can be placed directly on the "salesmen" who perpetrated the fraud to begin with by taking advantage of the "hands off" policies of the current and previous Administrations and the lack of forethought of the borrowers in that scenario.
As to my analysis being "simplistic", I take exception to your comment and "answer" to that analysis. Look at the history of the labor unions demands over the past 20-30 years and you will find the basis of my premise that their demands have had a compounding effect on the business community as a whole. While these demands may, or may not be the ROOT CAUSE, they have certainly been ONE of the many factors in the conundrum facing all of us today.
Just so you don't misunderstand my views, I am NOT anti-union, per se, but AM anti-excessive demands by those entities where the results equate to what we are experiencing today.
The "finger" points to BOTH sides of the fence, not just at the business world.
Texas Bill
I would ask you the simple question of , Why would the Corporate US cut their own throat by being "predatory"?
You have an entirely different slant on the causative factors of the downturn of the economy in this global scenario than many others.
This downturn is haveing a severe impact on the economy worldwide at this time and the cause is primarily in the mortgage banking sector wherein those facillities "bought" flawed mortgage paper without investigating the strength of that paper.
The "predatory" allegataion can be placed directly on the "salesmen" who perpetrated the fraud to begin with by taking advantage of the "hands off" policies of the current and previous Administrations and the lack of forethought of the borrowers in that scenario.
As to my analysis being "simplistic", I take exception to your comment and "answer" to that analysis. Look at the history of the labor unions demands over the past 20-30 years and you will find the basis of my premise that their demands have had a compounding effect on the business community as a whole. While these demands may, or may not be the ROOT CAUSE, they have certainly been ONE of the many factors in the conundrum facing all of us today.
Just so you don't misunderstand my views, I am NOT anti-union, per se, but AM anti-excessive demands by those entities where the results equate to what we are experiencing today.
The "finger" points to BOTH sides of the fence, not just at the business world.
Texas Bill
By "predatory", I mean corporations lobbying congress and putting money into the coffers of elected officials to further their own cause at taxpayers' expense. Catapillar, that all-american company, moved their headquarters offshore to take advantage of tax shelters.
The only thing that changed for them is their tax burden has been substantially alleviated. Yet they still do business as usual here in the states. They get to reap the profits and that extra tax burden doesn't just disappear off the books. It lands on our shoulders.
Why do you think one of if not THE biggest defense contractors, Halliburton, has moved its' headquarters to Dubai? Because of the sun and sand? I don't think so. This is the same company that charges the military $80 for 1 monogrammed towel and they get to enjoy tax shelters that will further increase their profits.
No, it is one of many factors, but all of these things are coming home to roost as we speak. For example, do you realize that billions of dollars in cash that has been delivered to Iraq has simply just disappeared?
I'm not talking about unaccounted for-I'm talking about straight-up stolen. And we keep sending money there like we have it to spend.
These "salsemen" work for corporations that have strong lobbies in Washington. They pay off these politicians with campaign donations that give them the leverage to adjust policy according to how it benefits THEM and no one else. This is the system that is set up and to lay it at the feet of a few unscupulous salemen is missing the point entirely.
Your original premise lay the responsibility solely at the feet of labor unions, to which I disagreed and stated why. I assumed that you felt it was the only factor involved, and I agree with you that it is merely one of many-but in my opinion certainly not the main one.
Labor unions have a right to fight for workers rights and benefits because if corporations had their way we would all be working for $2 dollars a day, no benefits and no bathroom breaks.
Having said that I am not a fan of some labor union practices, like their ability to protect unmotivated and clearly useless employees, and the whole issue of seniority entitlement.
Yes, I understand your position on this, but when you factor in the fact that corporations have the ability to set government policy that is clearly hurting the average person(corporate welfare being one of many) because it takes money out of our pockets to benefit them, then I think you can at least consider what is doing greater harm to the nation as a whole.
You know what-wouldn't I just love to incorporate myself as an offshore entity and not have to pay federal, state and local taxes yet have the ability to continue to reap the benefits of living and working here in NYC.
But I can't. I am not anti-business, I'm anti-cheating.
Berzin;
All of what yuou write is very true. And I'll not try to dispute it one iota.
The point that I made is still valid and that was that the Union heirarchy is just a guilty of Corporate lobbying practices aa those who represent the Corporations.
There is a movement in Congress to limit all these "Offshore" hide-aways, to require that the stockholders in Corporations vote on those huge "freebies" the CEO's and others get for their "outstanding performance" (like bankrupting the companies and being paid huge salaries and stock-options while doing so) and for stimulating the "predatory" policies we are all against.
While I am a devout Capitalist, I do feel that Corporations have a responsibility to take care of their employees, but contrary to the unionists belief, I feel that is a shared responsibility by the employees themselves. We have to begin with a reasonable assumption that the independance of the individual is the driving force of our democracy. That is the basis from which our nation progressed, but we must also protect the man(men) who form companies and hire the labor force by not making demands which undermine their intent and capability to progress financially in the process. We must also consider thesharehlders who hold investment paper, for without that ingredient many corporations wouldn't have the capital to expand and hire more workers.
I guess its just that my personal feeling is that Union heads have increased theitr demands beyound the realm of reasonblness with profit sharing, full coverage health and life insurance free to the wage-earner andnon-contributory retirement at 75-100% of wages at retirement.
These are the factors behind a huge number of theCorporations going "overseas" with their labor requirements. They were being strangled at home with no end in sight. The idea of paying a "skilled "(by union standards alone) worker $50.00 per hour for driving a single bolt into the engine block is hardly "skilled" by anyones standards. That same "skilled" scenario exists all throughout the entire manufacturing industry andis blatantly robbery by the unions heads in their demands during negotiations. And don't forget that the salaries of these union heds is determined by how much they squeeze out of the Corporations. They get rich while the worker gets the dreggs.
As to working for $2.00/day, that went out in the 40's for farm workers andis not applicable in today's market. 60-70 years is a long time to go back to a wage scale no longer even consideres as a reference, so you're off base there.
As to setting government policies, we have Congress to blame for that by their acquescience to the entrities and handouts of the lobbyists either through donations to their re-election or directly in themany forms used to hide such transactions. That's called CORRUPTION and I'm for replacing the Congressmen and Senators every 2 years while streamlining the legislative processes we are astuck with today. We have entirely too many "Career" Legislators and that's part of the problem. They get too powerful after their 2nd term and start to throw their weight around to such a degree that only THEIR legislation gets passed. Speaker Pilosi and Senator Reid are very good examples of what I'm speaking of. The other side not excluded. The type of legislation coming from both sides smacks of pandering without regard to theimpact of the proposed legislation in progress.
I'll quit now.
Yeah, I know, Thank Goodness!!!!!
Texas Bill
All of what yuou write is very true. And I'll not try to dispute it one iota.
The point that I made is still valid and that was that the Union heirarchy is just a guilty of Corporate lobbying practices aa those who represent the Corporations.
There is a movement in Congress to limit all these "Offshore" hide-aways, to require that the stockholders in Corporations vote on those huge "freebies" the CEO's and others get for their "outstanding performance" (like bankrupting the companies and being paid huge salaries and stock-options while doing so) and for stimulating the "predatory" policies we are all against.
While I am a devout Capitalist, I do feel that Corporations have a responsibility to take care of their employees, but contrary to the unionists belief, I feel that is a shared responsibility by the employees themselves. We have to begin with a reasonable assumption that the independance of the individual is the driving force of our democracy. That is the basis from which our nation progressed, but we must also protect the man(men) who form companies and hire the labor force by not making demands which undermine their intent and capability to progress financially in the process. We must also consider thesharehlders who hold investment paper, for without that ingredient many corporations wouldn't have the capital to expand and hire more workers.
I guess its just that my personal feeling is that Union heads have increased theitr demands beyound the realm of reasonblness with profit sharing, full coverage health and life insurance free to the wage-earner andnon-contributory retirement at 75-100% of wages at retirement.
These are the factors behind a huge number of theCorporations going "overseas" with their labor requirements. They were being strangled at home with no end in sight. The idea of paying a "skilled "(by union standards alone) worker $50.00 per hour for driving a single bolt into the engine block is hardly "skilled" by anyones standards. That same "skilled" scenario exists all throughout the entire manufacturing industry andis blatantly robbery by the unions heads in their demands during negotiations. And don't forget that the salaries of these union heds is determined by how much they squeeze out of the Corporations. They get rich while the worker gets the dreggs.
As to working for $2.00/day, that went out in the 40's for farm workers andis not applicable in today's market. 60-70 years is a long time to go back to a wage scale no longer even consideres as a reference, so you're off base there.
As to setting government policies, we have Congress to blame for that by their acquescience to the entrities and handouts of the lobbyists either through donations to their re-election or directly in themany forms used to hide such transactions. That's called CORRUPTION and I'm for replacing the Congressmen and Senators every 2 years while streamlining the legislative processes we are astuck with today. We have entirely too many "Career" Legislators and that's part of the problem. They get too powerful after their 2nd term and start to throw their weight around to such a degree that only THEIR legislation gets passed. Speaker Pilosi and Senator Reid are very good examples of what I'm speaking of. The other side not excluded. The type of legislation coming from both sides smacks of pandering without regard to theimpact of the proposed legislation in progress.
I'll quit now.
Yeah, I know, Thank Goodness!!!!!
Texas Bill
Texas Bill-the main reason corporations have migrated overseas is threefold-
1) Cheap labor.
2) No Unions.
3) Free trade agreements with countries that incur human rights abuses at all levels.
I'll explain #1 on a more global aspect-the chinese are a booming economy, no one can argue that. But imagine the unequal wealth distribution of building $500,000 homes using labor at $0.35 cents an hour. Even the dominicans do not pay their haitian construction workers so little.
#2-No unions means things that we take for granted, like lunch hours and bathroom breaks are denied. And these conditions do not exist only overseas or in Mexico-many sweatshops right here in NYC and in Los Angeles purposely hire undocumented workers to exploit them in the same manner as their overseas business brethren.
To make this more DR related, I recall a thread a while ago where a welder for the Metro showed up for work one day and was told he had to take a substantial cut in his monthly wages or leave.
This man was then out of a nice-paying job, someone was putting that money directly in their pocket and hired another worker for the difference. If this guy belonged to a union that had some clout this would not of happened.
In todays' market, people are worth less and less. Even skilled laborers and experts with tons of experience are seen as expendable.
And as the gap between the rich and poor continue to escalate out of control, I don't see a happy ending.
Enough of this, Bill. I have ranted long enough.
If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you in person, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk about something a little lighter, like how good Rockys' ribs are!!!!
1) Cheap labor.
2) No Unions.
3) Free trade agreements with countries that incur human rights abuses at all levels.
I'll explain #1 on a more global aspect-the chinese are a booming economy, no one can argue that. But imagine the unequal wealth distribution of building $500,000 homes using labor at $0.35 cents an hour. Even the dominicans do not pay their haitian construction workers so little.
#2-No unions means things that we take for granted, like lunch hours and bathroom breaks are denied. And these conditions do not exist only overseas or in Mexico-many sweatshops right here in NYC and in Los Angeles purposely hire undocumented workers to exploit them in the same manner as their overseas business brethren.
To make this more DR related, I recall a thread a while ago where a welder for the Metro showed up for work one day and was told he had to take a substantial cut in his monthly wages or leave.
This man was then out of a nice-paying job, someone was putting that money directly in their pocket and hired another worker for the difference. If this guy belonged to a union that had some clout this would not of happened.
In todays' market, people are worth less and less. Even skilled laborers and experts with tons of experience are seen as expendable.
And as the gap between the rich and poor continue to escalate out of control, I don't see a happy ending.
Enough of this, Bill. I have ranted long enough.
If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you in person, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk about something a little lighter, like how good Rockys' ribs are!!!!
Texas Bill-the main reason corporations have migrated overseas is threefold-
1) Cheap labor.
2) No Unions.
3) Free trade agreements that made relocating easier(with countries that incur human rights abuses at all levels).
I'll explain #1 on a more global aspect-the chinese are a booming economy, no one can argue that. But imagine the unequal wealth distribution of building $500,000 homes using labor at $0.35 cents an hour. Even the dominicans do not pay their haitian construction workers so little.
#2-No unions means things that we take for granted, like lunch hours and bathroom breaks are denied. And these conditions do not exist only overseas or in Mexico-many sweatshops right here in NYC and in Los Angeles purposely hire undocumented workers to exploit them in the same manner as their overseas business brethren.
To make this more DR related, I recall a thread a while ago where a welder for the Metro showed up for work one day and was told he had to take a substantial cut in his monthly wages or leave.
This man was then out of a nice-paying job, someone was putting that money directly in their pocket and hired another worker for the difference. If this guy belonged to a union that had some clout this would not of happened.
In todays' market, people are worth less and less. Even skilled laborers and experts with tons of experience are seen as expendable.
And as the gap between the rich and poor continues to escalate out of control, I don't see a happy ending.
Enough of this, Bill. I have ranted long enough.
If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you in person, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk about something more pleasant, like how good Rocky's' ribs are!!!!
1) Cheap labor.
2) No Unions.
3) Free trade agreements that made relocating easier(with countries that incur human rights abuses at all levels).
I'll explain #1 on a more global aspect-the chinese are a booming economy, no one can argue that. But imagine the unequal wealth distribution of building $500,000 homes using labor at $0.35 cents an hour. Even the dominicans do not pay their haitian construction workers so little.
#2-No unions means things that we take for granted, like lunch hours and bathroom breaks are denied. And these conditions do not exist only overseas or in Mexico-many sweatshops right here in NYC and in Los Angeles purposely hire undocumented workers to exploit them in the same manner as their overseas business brethren.
To make this more DR related, I recall a thread a while ago where a welder for the Metro showed up for work one day and was told he had to take a substantial cut in his monthly wages or leave.
This man was then out of a nice-paying job, someone was putting that money directly in their pocket and hired another worker for the difference. If this guy belonged to a union that had some clout this would not of happened.
In todays' market, people are worth less and less. Even skilled laborers and experts with tons of experience are seen as expendable.
And as the gap between the rich and poor continues to escalate out of control, I don't see a happy ending.
Enough of this, Bill. I have ranted long enough.
If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you in person, I'll buy you a beer and we can talk about something more pleasant, like how good Rocky's' ribs are!!!!
I can think of other reasons for some of the things you have been talking about.
1) Corporations moving offshore, such as Caterpillar and Halliburton: why the heck should a corporation that makes 60% or 75% of their money outside the US be forced to pay taxes on those gains to the US government - their customers overseas are not buying their goods/services just because they come from the US, they buy them because they are better than the alternative choices available. In most cases the same goods sold overseas are MADE overseas, to the same quality level of the US product. Makes perfect sense to me.
2) My gripe against unions and whomever negotiates the union contracts which tie the union wage to the US minimum wage rate, for example, the union members wages will remain at a minimum of 550% (or more) of the US minimum wage. What did the union members do to earn a big wage increase after Congress raises the minimum wage in hopes of helping those who do earn minimum wage? The truly poor just keep falling further and further behind instead of the true intention.
3) The US healthcare system is OUT OF CONTROL, with costs rising 15% a year, every year. (and that is also now happening here inthe DR now that there are mandetory healthcare coverage for all workers in the DR) Why??? And workers and politicians want to force 100% coverage down the taxpayers throats. Here's a suggestion - why not give universal healthcare to everyone, with a $5000 (or more) per year deductible. That would avoid catastrophy to 90% of US workers if something major did go wrong with a family memnber, and at the same time, make them think about running to the Dr or the E.R. because they have a sore throat, instead of going to the pharmacy for some cough medicine - why not, they only have a $2 co-pay, right?? And a great pharmacy plan to boot.That's the root of the problem to me.
You can now see the same root problem beginning her ein the DR, with mandetory health coverage for all. Just wait, in another 5 years or so, it will fall apart here too, because the DR government does not have the will or the money to fix it or keep throwing money at the problem. The average cost for a worker int he DR with all of the socialized benefits BEFORE healthcare coverage was about 150%+ of the wage they received, and its gone up now.
1) Corporations moving offshore, such as Caterpillar and Halliburton: why the heck should a corporation that makes 60% or 75% of their money outside the US be forced to pay taxes on those gains to the US government - their customers overseas are not buying their goods/services just because they come from the US, they buy them because they are better than the alternative choices available. In most cases the same goods sold overseas are MADE overseas, to the same quality level of the US product. Makes perfect sense to me.
2) My gripe against unions and whomever negotiates the union contracts which tie the union wage to the US minimum wage rate, for example, the union members wages will remain at a minimum of 550% (or more) of the US minimum wage. What did the union members do to earn a big wage increase after Congress raises the minimum wage in hopes of helping those who do earn minimum wage? The truly poor just keep falling further and further behind instead of the true intention.
3) The US healthcare system is OUT OF CONTROL, with costs rising 15% a year, every year. (and that is also now happening here inthe DR now that there are mandetory healthcare coverage for all workers in the DR) Why??? And workers and politicians want to force 100% coverage down the taxpayers throats. Here's a suggestion - why not give universal healthcare to everyone, with a $5000 (or more) per year deductible. That would avoid catastrophy to 90% of US workers if something major did go wrong with a family memnber, and at the same time, make them think about running to the Dr or the E.R. because they have a sore throat, instead of going to the pharmacy for some cough medicine - why not, they only have a $2 co-pay, right?? And a great pharmacy plan to boot.That's the root of the problem to me.
You can now see the same root problem beginning her ein the DR, with mandetory health coverage for all. Just wait, in another 5 years or so, it will fall apart here too, because the DR government does not have the will or the money to fix it or keep throwing money at the problem. The average cost for a worker int he DR with all of the socialized benefits BEFORE healthcare coverage was about 150%+ of the wage they received, and its gone up now.
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'Southwest Florida businesses are crossing country lines and moving into a new market: the Dominican Republic.'
Dominican Republic rich climate for Southwest Florida businesses : Growth Development : Naples Daily News
Dominican Republic rich climate for Southwest Florida businesses : Growth Development : Naples Daily News
US economy threatens Dominican Republic
According to the article the textile industry in the Dominican Republic specifically in Santiago has been on the decline, and will suffer even more......jobs going overseas, take a guess where.
Tem?stocles Mont?s, the economy and planning minister says the following....just look at the amount going for education, very sad and tragic for the future of the country.
FT.com / World / Americas - US economy threatens Dominican Republic
According to the article the textile industry in the Dominican Republic specifically in Santiago has been on the decline, and will suffer even more......jobs going overseas, take a guess where.
Tem?stocles Mont?s, the economy and planning minister says the following....just look at the amount going for education, very sad and tragic for the future of the country.
my bold
FT.com / World / Americas - US economy threatens Dominican Republic
The US government is drowning in debt. The fed spent over 14 trillion dollars in 7 months on this bailout.....Thats more than 30,000 dollars for every american. Total debt for the US according to one extimate is 53 trillion . I think alot of this stock rally is simply a reaction to this large amount of outlays by the government. The projections for unemployment is that it may reach more than 10 %. And the up coming problem of the alta A morgages coming due as well as comercial real estate.
The issue of how much you pay someone is important since about 70 % of of the US economy is consumer driven. So if an employee has to take a paycut this has an effect on the economy. This phenomenon of stagnant wages has been occuring since the 70s. (Most union jobs in the US dont pay those high wages like the 75 dollar an hour GM job....which they dont pay anymore by the way.
The unions have declined to less than about 17 % of the US work force.)
Eventually the global economy will have a great lowering effect for the incomes in the US But since it is the spending of these US workers that stimulate the economy ....you will have killed the goose that layed the golden egg. Who will the world producers ( DR, China etc) sell to when the american worker has less money to spend. The answer is probably no one. Enjoy the taste of the goose you wont be getting anymore golden eggs.
The issue of how much you pay someone is important since about 70 % of of the US economy is consumer driven. So if an employee has to take a paycut this has an effect on the economy. This phenomenon of stagnant wages has been occuring since the 70s. (Most union jobs in the US dont pay those high wages like the 75 dollar an hour GM job....which they dont pay anymore by the way.
The unions have declined to less than about 17 % of the US work force.)
Eventually the global economy will have a great lowering effect for the incomes in the US But since it is the spending of these US workers that stimulate the economy ....you will have killed the goose that layed the golden egg. Who will the world producers ( DR, China etc) sell to when the american worker has less money to spend. The answer is probably no one. Enjoy the taste of the goose you wont be getting anymore golden eggs.
R
rockero
Guest
Yes this is getting bad and Obamas policy of making money out of nothing or more stimulus ideas will not do the trick as this money ends up going back to the big wig international bankers. What they want is there North American Union. The Dr will be soon with Central America in The Pan American union. And Chavez will help for the one south american currency. This sucks the dollar is approaching its end soon. Obama same as Bush meet the new boss same as the old boss Like The great Who song We wont get fooled again, But With Obama we did. Hopefully Ron Paul will keep challening the fed on these issues, Either way the great American crash is coming soon,,Rockero.
Money from nothing
The OP wrote about the Fed creating debt, but most of the Fed actions simply created trillions of dollars from nothing, not debt. The Fed has the magical power to do that in several distinct ways.
This is not necessarily inflationary - the preceding broad based collapse in real estate and wall street destroyed many trillions of dollars.
This is precisely what the Fed's job is. They try to match the money supply with the actual supply of goods and services. It's only inflationary to create more money than available goods and services - in which case the value of money expressed in goods and services falls.
If the Fed did not create trillions of dollars to take the place of the trillions that the collapse destroyed, there would have been systematic deflation - less money than G&S so the value of money rises. Deflation is part of the death spiral in a major depression. Deflation is MUCH worse for an economy than inflation. There has to be a zero tolerance policy by any central bank for deflation - the ideal is a steady stable low rate of inflation.
Deflation is so deadly because it damps the circulation of money and makes the analogue of blood clots very likely. If there is deflation it means there is what amounts to an interest rate for just holding money - not putting it in a bank or investing it - just literally hanging onto it. This is DEADLY to the functioning of an economy. If somebody gets a dollar, instead of spending or investing it - it's the smart thing to do neither.
It may seem strange but creating trillions of dollars from nothing if a market collapse should happen to destroy trillions of dollars all of a sudden is PRECISELY what the fed is supposed to do. It's what all of the people who lead it were trained for. It was like a fire brigade that sat around doing drills and rescuing cats in trees for 80 years suddenly had a fire, they squirted water on it and put it out just as they were trained to do, and now a bunch of clueless neighbors are standing around bitching about water damage. Firemen are better than nothing but they ain't perfect.
The OP wrote about the Fed creating debt, but most of the Fed actions simply created trillions of dollars from nothing, not debt. The Fed has the magical power to do that in several distinct ways.
This is not necessarily inflationary - the preceding broad based collapse in real estate and wall street destroyed many trillions of dollars.
This is precisely what the Fed's job is. They try to match the money supply with the actual supply of goods and services. It's only inflationary to create more money than available goods and services - in which case the value of money expressed in goods and services falls.
If the Fed did not create trillions of dollars to take the place of the trillions that the collapse destroyed, there would have been systematic deflation - less money than G&S so the value of money rises. Deflation is part of the death spiral in a major depression. Deflation is MUCH worse for an economy than inflation. There has to be a zero tolerance policy by any central bank for deflation - the ideal is a steady stable low rate of inflation.
Deflation is so deadly because it damps the circulation of money and makes the analogue of blood clots very likely. If there is deflation it means there is what amounts to an interest rate for just holding money - not putting it in a bank or investing it - just literally hanging onto it. This is DEADLY to the functioning of an economy. If somebody gets a dollar, instead of spending or investing it - it's the smart thing to do neither.
It may seem strange but creating trillions of dollars from nothing if a market collapse should happen to destroy trillions of dollars all of a sudden is PRECISELY what the fed is supposed to do. It's what all of the people who lead it were trained for. It was like a fire brigade that sat around doing drills and rescuing cats in trees for 80 years suddenly had a fire, they squirted water on it and put it out just as they were trained to do, and now a bunch of clueless neighbors are standing around bitching about water damage. Firemen are better than nothing but they ain't perfect.
I'll sum it up in a couple of words. The U.S. has been one big Ponzi Scheme similar to Bernie Madoff for years and just like any Ponzi Scheme it has came back to bite them and caught up with them. Goldman Sachs is controling the stock market with Obama's gov't help with false earnings. China is now asking for another currency so is India so is Russia and they are only waiting for Brazil to join in so the dollar will be gone. China is also advising they might stop buying treasuries or debt from the U.S. and when that happends the U.S. WILL CRASH as nobody else can help except China. Also, secretly Obama has ordered troops to come home and they are training at a base in Georgia as they expect home grown terrorism and social unrest and rioting as the economy continues to spiral downward and unemployment continues spiking. BOTTOM LINE: Obama is bankrupting the United States with his socialist policy's!!
Oh, one other note. Obama sent Timothy Geithner "his puppet finance treasury guy" to China to meet with government officials and business leader. He went there to control fears with the Chinese about the calapse of the United States and to let them know everything is getting better here and will continue to get better. We'll after he said that, video showed numerous Chinese stood up and laughed at him when he tried to convince them that the U.S. is not as bad as has been portrade on T.V. and things are getting better. The chinese aren't stupid, they know the U.S. IS DROWNING IN DEBT and they also know that the U.S. will never pay back the $34 trillion dollars that we owe China now but again China needs the U.S. to continue to buy their cancer mercury filled products as the U.S. buys more products from China than anybody so that's why they continue to pour money into the United States debt. Scratch my back and I will scratch yours!!!
R
rockero
Guest
EH This will happen for sure,,,The info is all there check out Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com David Icke Website - Home Jeff Rense Program Newswatch Magazine I have a kid too thats 6 years old this stuff is coming down and I am darn scared of this,,,Rockero.....
Do you think what Bush and Texas oil taycoons did to this country during eight years was better? Everything is stolen that could be stolen. What Obama can do in just less than a year?
Russian leaders agreed to sacrifice their country to USA interests in exchange for personal safety, wealth and protection for a chosen few and their families. It was done during Obama`s visit to Moscow. Russia cut their nuclear arms unilaterally without any American cuts, it is unheard in the World diplomacy.
USA and China will eat the dead Russia body and survive. Biden said openly: "Russian economy will last fifteen more years". Period.
No more existing Russia in US plans beyond fifteen years.
Someone big must be sacrificed and eaten alive.
USA can kill Russia even now. Or any moment. Prohibiting oil futures speculation. Oil price will go down to like $15-$20. Oil is the only Russia`s source of revenue. And Russia`s national budget is built on $55.
Putin knows this. Hense unilateral one sided nuclear arms cuts.
USA will survive, prosper and keep in global control.
No offence primo but these are wacko sites, they also pull out of their ass stories about UFO, the Grays, NWO,Time travel, 2012, and any other SHTF theme to entertain southern US militia types.
links
You do have links to back up these statements correct?
Also need to check out the oil/Gas reserves that Russia is selling.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Russia/pdf.pdf
The US has committed more spending since Jan 2009 than in all the years preceding combined.
You do have links to back up these statements correct?
Also need to check out the oil/Gas reserves that Russia is selling.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Russia/pdf.pdf
The US has committed more spending since Jan 2009 than in all the years preceding combined.
You do not read newspapers? It is discussed all over the World. In all possible languages that you might speak. Leaders of a former military superpower cut their nuclear arsenals without even asking for any cuts in return.
Giving away Far East islands to China.
Playing deaf and blind to Japanese legislative move to reclame the Kurils.
15 years. Black spot was sent to Pu and Me to give them time to pack suitcases and to run to a Caribbean Island.
Weak economy pushing Russia to arms deal: Biden | Reuters