Purchasing an Invertor

[Olly]

Batteries ?

I always find it interesting when MikE AKA Windeguy comments about batteries. And it is always Trojan Red are BEST ? Well I have find that interesting and I think there are two aspects to batteries for invertors here. What is their capacity and what life time do they have. Their capacity governs how long they will last for a power outage. Their life is how long they will provide that capacity - is it months - is it years ?
If you have four batteries you would want to get a few years life out of them - afterall they cost about US500 !

Windy never says how long his batteries last -always Trojan Reds have lasted and in the recent problems with Maria had to ask where he could get petrol for his generator- his batteries had not lasted that long !!

We have a bank of 12 batteries and most of them are US245 . These are diamond plate technology so a bit different to the old Trojan T-105 .

It is a trade off between how long the batteries will last (ie Years) versa the cost. Trojans T-105 do not come out well on that score. At La Serena in POP - Trojan Reds were RD$ 6850 each. US 245 where RD$4995 each. If the Trojans lasted about 2 years longer they would be worth it. So Mike - AKA Windy - did your T-105 last ?

Olly and the team

 

[cobraboy]

CB, many thanks. Will follow your path. Much appreciated. Now to make that decision: Small genset or inverter....jummmm.

I will have to count shekels and see which is better value...

Many thanks to all who contributed to this good thread.

HB

Inverter with a couple banks of batteries. Both banks are for Trojan T-105's in series for 24v.

Then buy a small generator, slightly larger that your inverter capacity and have your electrician hook it up through the inverter for those times that the electricity is out for an extended period.

That's our set-up at Camp Moto and works great! When the banks of batters start to get low, the genset gets cranked and the batteries are recharrged in just a few of hours.

Our system is set up so BOTH banks are charged at the same time when the power (or genset) is on, but we select which bank we want to run house power through the inverter.

We also have a light that comes on when street power returns, so we know when to stop the genset. Otherwise the light panel on the inverter looks like it has street power. We do disconnect the inverter from the street when the genset is on so the voltage does not go into the street. That could cause some problems when folks think the street power is off, but our genset is sending power through the lines as well to the inverter.

Our inverter capacity is 3.5kw and the genset is 4kw, a simple gasoline device. I keep 13 motorcycles filled with gas so we have plenty of fuel if needed, about 65 gallons.

There are prolly other better systems one can rig, but not at the total price we spent.

 

[cobraboy]

I always find it interesting when MikE AKA Windeguy comments about batteries. And it is always Trojan Red are BEST ? Well I have find that interesting and I think there are two aspects to batteries for invertors here. What is their capacity and what life time do they have. Their capacity governs how long they will last for a power outage. Their life is how long they will provide that capacity - is it months - is it years ?
If you have four batteries you would want to get a few years life out of them - afterall they cost about US500 !

Windy never says how long his batteries last -always Trojan Reds have lasted and in the recent problems with Maria had to ask where he could get petrol for his generator- his batteries had not lasted that long !!

We have a bank of 12 batteries and most of them are US245 . These are diamond plate technology so a bit different to the old Trojan T-105 .

It is a trade off between how long the batteries will last (ie Years) versa the cost. Trojans T-105 do not come out well on that score. At La Serena in POP - Trojan Reds were RD$ 6850 each. US 245 where RD$4995 each. If the Trojans lasted about 2 years longer they would be worth it. So Mike - AKA Windy - did your T-105 last ?

Olly and the team

I got 28 months from US245's until they died (2010-2013), and so far are on month 50 on one bank of T-105's, and 24 months on the second bank.

 

[beeza]

I also use Interstate deep cycle batteries.  The first batch I purchased had the quick release caps which all broke.  But other than that I got six years life out of them.

I now have another set of eight Interstates.  These ones have screw caps which are better.  So far so good, four years on. 

 

[Olly]

Thanks for the info on battery life. The US245s in one bank we have lasted 48 months with two of the 4 indicating shorted cells. This was during Maria when the batteries really got a pasting. The other bank of US245s is just 2 years old and going strong. The oldest bank is Exide GC-90 which are now 6 years old. These have lower capacity but have lasted a long time similar to Beeza with the Interstate .

Olly and the Team

 

[beeza]

It's not a good idea to mix new/old ,  different capacity batteries in a battery bank. The rule of thumb is keep the age gap between batteries less than six months.

The older ones need more to charge and the younger one will become over charged as a result and boil, which will shorten the life of the new ones.

Also a shorted out cell will increase the current consumption from your charger/inverter.  One of the first things you will notice is that your electricity bill will go up.  Whilst your batteries are charging, touch them to see if they are all the same temperature.  Not the terminals, because they can get quite hot, but touch the battery case.  A shorted out cell will be a lot hotter than the others.

To make a determined diagnosis, you then need some test equipment, such as a multimeter and a electrolyte densitometer.

 

[cobraboy]

It's not a good idea to mix new/old ,  different capacity batteries in a battery bank. The rule of thumb is keep the age gap between batteries less than six months.

The older ones need more to charge and the younger one will become over charged as a result and boil, which will shorten the life of the new ones.

True, and more thre reason to run equalization charges through them to remove as much sulfates from the plates to keep them working properly.

 

[webmacon]

Gel batteries

Sorry don't have the amps here as they are in the apartment in SDQ, the brand is Solaris and come like in a true military box with each three cells of 2 volts, so if one cell would be defect I could replace only that one.

No hassle with maintenance or anything, just great in my view, and I had inverters here for over 20 years. 

By the way, is still my first inveter, only one time fuse change.

What is the AmpHour rating and Brand of the gel batteries?

 

[windeguy]

I always find it interesting when MikE AKA Windeguy comments about batteries. And it is always Trojan Red are BEST ? Well I have find that interesting and I think there are two aspects to batteries for invertors here. What is their capacity and what life time do they have. Their capacity governs how long they will last for a power outage. Their life is how long they will provide that capacity - is it months - is it years ?
If you have four batteries you would want to get a few years life out of them - afterall they cost about US500 !

Windy never says how long his batteries last -always Trojan Reds have lasted and in the recent problems with Maria had to ask where he could get petrol for his generator- his batteries had not lasted that long !!

We have a bank of 12 batteries and most of them are US245 . These are diamond plate technology so a bit different to the old Trojan T-105 .

It is a trade off between how long the batteries will last (ie Years) versa the cost. Trojans T-105 do not come out well on that score. At La Serena in POP - Trojan Reds were RD$ 6850 each. US 245 where RD$4995 each. If the Trojans lasted about 2 years longer they would be worth it. So Mike - AKA Windy - did your T-105 last ?

Olly and the team

Olly, it is a good question as to how long batteries last. But the answer is not a simple one. One big factor on how long batteries last is dependent primarily on how many times they are discharged and how deeply they are discharged. When I moved to my house 14 years ago, we had about 10 hours of power per day. Now we have 18 hours of power per day, which is supposed to go to 24/7 (as close as Edenorte can do) by next year. Lead acid battery is old technology. Diamond Plate? A marketing term.

Now to do the best I can to answer your question. Trojan Black Batteries, TRACE batteries, US Battery 1800 and a couple of others that lasted about a year . Yes about one year. By the way, to repeat this again: Trojan does not make a black battery and TRACE never made batteries. These names are Dominican inventions. I also bought a set of batteries once in Santiago that said they were 245 AH batteries, when I called the company that made them (Crown Battery), turns out they were 205 AH batteries and were being charged too rapidly (another factor that can decrease battery life).

The Trojan batteries have lasted closer to two years for me. I use the smallest battery bank I can get away with. One set is just 4 batteries for two small apartments. The other set is just 8 batteries.

I could double those bank sizes and I might get them to last twice as long. But I have not and have no real motivation to increase the number of batteries.

Now on to specific topic of the US Battery that you are using. I called the engineers at US Battery and asked them about that 225 AH deep cycle battery. He told me that because of the plate design, that battery is what is called electrolyte starved. Because of that situation, he did not recommend using that battery in the DR because electrolyte starved batteries are not the best for tropical temperature environments like the DR. Yes, ambient temperature also is a factor on battery life. Ever wonder why car batteries here last such a short time versus a place like NY or New England? I hope yours do well, but they may not be subject to the deep discharges that mine frequently were, it is hard to compare Trojans to US Battery models that are not in the same exact environment. As I mentioned,even my circumstances have changed, for the better, over time.

 

[cobraboy]

I'll second what windy says: the lifespan of any battery is how many discharge-charge cycles they go through, and how deep the discharges are.

A golf cart battery like 6v deep cycle batteries we use in the DR have an average life of 550 cycles to 50% discharge. The deeper the discharge, the fewer cycles of life.

One judge of barreries is how heavy they are dry. Generally, the heavier a battery is, the more lead it has, and the more cycles it can endure. However, connections between cells can go bad, and really can't be judged by weight.

But the deeper the discharge, the higher amperage it can absorb on charging, the hotter the plates can get and eventually warp...causing a shorted cell and total death.

There is no real magic involved.

I won't say the US245's we had that lasted a little over 2 years were bad batteries because where we lived had constant daily power outages...hence more cycles. Where we live now has three outages a week and rarely discharge the batteries over 50%, so the batteries are lasting longer.

 

[windeguy]

A golf cart battery like 6v deep cycle batteries we use in the DR have an average life of 550 cycles to 50% discharge. The deeper the discharge, the fewer cycles of life.


But the deeper the discharge, the higher amperage it can absorb on charging, the hotter the plates can get and eventually warp...causing a shorted cell and total death.
.

Where I live has gone from two discharges to 50% or 60% per day to one such discharge per day based upon the current rationed programmed outages by Edenorte. Next year, I hope, the batteries will only be for emergency use.

Ambient temperature, charge rate, charge profile, and depth of discharge all have an impact on battery life.

 

[beeza]

I will add to the reason I get fairly good battery life is that the grid performance has improved considerably over time.  Outages are fewer and shorter.  I vary rarely deplete my batteries to the point that the inverter shuts off.

Another reason my batteries last is because my inverter has a sophisticated charging program, which can be configured to the type of batteries in the bank.  It also has a temperature probe that you stick to one of the batteries.  This ensures that the batteries do not boil.

I also do an EQ charge once every two months.  This put an increased voltage into the batteries, but a lower current.  The higher voltage is to remove the build up of sulfate on the plates.

 

[judypdr]

Thank you all for your help. I purchased the Megatone Wave Lite model 2524C1ES, which is good to 2500 watts. The office of Gruka Electronics in Puerto Plata on 27 de Febrero was very helpful. They said to be sure my batteries would hold a charge before hooking it up. The electrician will check that, or at least I've asked him to. The cost was RD$10,500 cash for your reference. Thanks again!

 

[judypdr]

Oops! Looks like I need four new batteries too. I bought the Trojan Reds last time so I'll do it again. They lasted more than 5 years. Any ideas on the best price for them? I think I only paid 5500 pesos per battery five years ago. What can I expect now? Will they be cheaper in Santiago? Or are they priced about the same everywhere? Thanks!

 

[windeguy]

For the Trojan T 105 red batteries expect to pay about $150 US or 47.5 X 150 = 7,125 $RD. Maybe a couple of hundred pesos less.

 

[judypdr]

For the Trojan T 105 red batteries expect to pay about $150 US or 47.5 X 150 = 7,125 $RD. Maybe a couple of hundred pesos less.

Thanks again...So they are really about the same price, just more pesos to the dollar 47.5 vs 37 when I bought them last!

 

[windeguy]

Thanks again...So they are really about the same price, just more pesos to the dollar 47.5 vs 37 when I bought them last!

That is correct. And they are about that same price in the US. One of the few items that isn't jacked up by another 30% or 40% when sold here.

 

[Neargale]

What about a small genset? Please correct me, but I need 220V... can that be run with inversor and batteries?
I thought it could not so I thought a small genset to run 220V and of course run everything else in the house would be useful.
I had a Kubota on the sailboat. Cant remember size. What brand/size recommended and availability in POP or STI?
Note: I still dont have 220V from Nadanorte, 1 line is down and we are the last house at the end...they are giving us the finger since Irma!

 

[cobraboy]

What about a small genset? Please correct me, but I need 220V... can that be run with inversor and batteries?
I thought it could not so I thought a small genset to run 220V and of course run everything else in the house would be useful.
I had a Kubota on the sailboat. Cant remember size. What brand/size recommended and availability in POP or STI?
Note: I still dont have 220V from Nadanorte, 1 line is down and we are the last house at the end...they are giving us the finger since Irma!

Small gensets can have a 220v circuit. Our 4kw does.