Fortunately for us this phrase is not biblical or there would be no one to go to heaven.
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
Recognition Of Good Work By Christian Groups From Canada
Fortunately for us this phrase is not biblical or there would be no one to go to heaven.
I don't think your understanding of English is good enough to criticize the interpretation of this phrase. This is a common phrase that is... oh forget it.
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Ok, back to Ken's postive post.
Anna & Chip & Ken,
I'm going to play devil's advocate here because, well, i've got a few minutes to kill before i go to work. I've been here going 48 years...mostly in Bonao, but i've been here on the north coast for the past 6 years now. Here's the problem with the other 10% religious people of which--my uncle, my aunt, my grandfather, many cousins, and many of our neighbors i grew up around had the great pleasure of suffering from a virus which is unconducive to logic or reasoning: It's a virus that many missionaries bring down here with them. Please allow me to list them randomly as they come into my head:
1. A beautiful, gorgeous blond 7yr old kid that lives here in Perla Marina (in-between Sosua & Cabarete) doesn't go to school. Why? becuase his parents are down here "Preaching the Word" (his words, not mine). I asked him some basic questions. i listened to him at great length...he's a nice kid, a wonderful kid, a beautiful kid--but he's nearly illiterate and has trouble speaking (his sentance structure is very poor). Now, as i sat there listening to him, i thought about what on earth would possess his parents to yank him out of school?? Apperently, this beautiful kid's parent's saw it more of a priority to use their time, and their kid's tiime, to go around "preaching the Word" over an education. yes, their Missionaries.
Meanwhile, back home, my girlfriend's 7 year old has only been in this country for 2.6 years and she's fluent in three languages (English, Spanish, & Russian) and is a straight A studentat Sosua International school. She never heard English or Spanish spoken until 2.6 years ago.
2.) In Bonao, while growing up and going to high school, i had, and still have, relatives (grandfather, aunt, and cousins) that go to church every single day. Every day!! that's not a joke. they come home and then tell their kids that their not going to heaven if they do this or do that. they tell them about all these miracles that have happened, and will continue to happen, if they only believe in the Bible. Meanwhile, directly across the street from us, families are living in complete squalar--however, they too believe in the same miracles, and continue believing in the same miracles despite living in complete and utter squalar two generations later (I grew up with the kids whom are now in their late 40's and are grandparents now). Whenever i go to visit, i'm amazed, first, by the fact these adults, whom i grew up with, now have 7 and 8 children themseleves, with absolutely no way to feed them properly. Many of them are grandparents now and find the time to go out and spread the word but have no way to feed their children and grandchildren. They're dependant on handouts. this is heart wrenching, gut wrenching, a reality so macabre that it defies logic. Why do they have so many kids? Apperently, it's what god wants.
Many of these people have taught their children that if you only "Believe in miracles, god, and the Bible," then everything will take care of itself. Here i am, 47+ years later, giving money to families who were dirt poor 48 years ago, and now their children are dirt poor as well. Why? all becuase these parents (My grandfather included) saw it more important, a higher priority, to teach their children about god and the bible rather than push education on them. hence, back to the beautiful blond kid in Perla Marina, all these kids remain nearly illiterate, or functionally illiterate at best. Why? becuase "god," or the "word", or the "book"--took a higher priority over education.
I don't want to make this longer than neccessary because, unfortunately, i grew up between here (in Bonao) and Ohio, and i have thousands of examples where Missionaries, Evangelists, Jehovah Witnesses, and Baptists--my family members included--have pushed their religious beliefs and agendas over science, over reality. they've also pushed their beliefs in far and excess over the basic neccessity of a good secular education. in other words, their religious agenda took a much greater priority over a secular education. What you get when this happens, are generations of children and adults running around--by the millions on this island-- believing some of the most archaic, ignorant, superstitious, and unfounded beliefs that you can imagine.
Yes, the religious people here are good people; yes, they're warm hearted and friendly people; yes, they will go far out of their way to help you and give you what litttle they have. I know all this becuase, well, many of these people are my family members here that i've grown up with. but they're also hopelessly ignorant on many, many subjects and things--one of which is the belief in witches. Another is the belief that Jesus Christ will coming back any day now---they fall hook-line-and-sinker for any Armeggedon predictions--like the earth will ending in 2012, 2013...or just pick a date. they also believe in ideas of pergatory, heaven, and hell, and what not and teach these to their children.
So, yes, the missionaries and religious people are doing good things down here, wonderful things, but many of them have an ulterior motive that's tied directly to their religious beliefs and agendas.
Love Frank
Anna & Chip & Ken,
I'm going to play devil's advocate here because, well, i've got a few minutes to kill before i go to work. I've been here going 48 years...mostly in Bonao, but i've been here on the north coast for the past 6 years now. Here's the problem with the other 10% religious people of which--my uncle, my aunt, my grandfather, many cousins, and many of our neighbors i grew up around had the great pleasure of suffering from a virus which is unconducive to logic or reasoning: It's a virus that many missionaries bring down here with them. Please allow me to list them randomly as they come into my head:
1. A beautiful, gorgeous blond 7yr old kid that lives here in Perla Marina (in-between Sosua & Cabarete) doesn't go to school. Why? becuase his parents are down here "Preaching the Word" (his words, not mine). I asked him some basic questions. i listened to him at great length...he's a nice kid, a wonderful kid, a beautiful kid--but he's nearly illiterate and has trouble speaking (his sentance structure is very poor). Now, as i sat there listening to him, i thought about what on earth would possess his parents to yank him out of school?? Apperently, this beautiful kid's parent's saw it more of a priority to use their time, and their kid's tiime, to go around "preaching the Word" over an education. yes, their Missionaries.
Meanwhile, back home, my girlfriend's 7 year old has only been in this country for 2.6 years and she's fluent in three languages (English, Spanish, & Russian) and is a straight A studentat Sosua International school. She never heard English or Spanish spoken until 2.6 years ago.
2.) In Bonao, while growing up and going to high school, i had, and still have, relatives (grandfather, aunt, and cousins) that go to church every single day. Every day!! that's not a joke. they come home and then tell their kids that their not going to heaven if they do this or do that. they tell them about all these miracles that have happened, and will continue to happen, if they only believe in the Bible. Meanwhile, directly across the street from us, families are living in complete squalar--however, they too believe in the same miracles, and continue believing in the same miracles despite living in complete and utter squalar two generations later (I grew up with the kids whom are now in their late 40's and are grandparents now). Whenever i go to visit, i'm amazed, first, by the fact these adults, whom i grew up with, now have 7 and 8 children themseleves, with absolutely no way to feed them properly. Many of them are grandparents now and find the time to go out and spread the word but have no way to feed their children and grandchildren. They're dependant on handouts. this is heart wrenching, gut wrenching, a reality so macabre that it defies logic. Why do they have so many kids? Apperently, it's what god wants.
Many of these people have taught their children that if you only "Believe in miracles, god, and the Bible," then everything will take care of itself. Here i am, 47+ years later, giving money to families who were dirt poor 48 years ago, and now their children are dirt poor as well. Why? all becuase these parents (My grandfather included) saw it more important, a higher priority, to teach their children about god and the bible rather than push education on them. hence, back to the beautiful blond kid in Perla Marina, all these kids remain nearly illiterate, or functionally illiterate at best. Why? becuase "god," or the "word", or the "book"--took a higher priority over education.
I don't want to make this longer than neccessary because, unfortunately, i grew up between here (in Bonao) and Ohio, and i have thousands of examples where Missionaries, Evangelists, Jehovah Witnesses, and Baptists--my family members included--have pushed their religious beliefs and agendas over science, over reality. they've also pushed their beliefs in far and excess over the basic neccessity of a good secular education. in other words, their religious agenda took a much greater priority over a secular education. What you get when this happens, are generations of children and adults running around--by the millions on this island-- believing some of the most archaic, ignorant, superstitious, and unfounded beliefs that you can imagine.
Yes, the religious people here are good people; yes, they're warm hearted and friendly people; yes, they will go far out of their way to help you and give you what litttle they have. I know all this becuase, well, many of these people are my family members here that i've grown up with. but they're also hopelessly ignorant on many, many subjects and things--one of which is the belief in witches. Another is the belief that Jesus Christ will coming back any day now---they fall hook-line-and-sinker for any Armeggedon predictions--like the earth will ending in 2012, 2013...or just pick a date. they also believe in ideas of pergatory, heaven, and hell, and what not and teach these to their children.
So, yes, the missionaries and religious people are doing good things down here, wonderful things, but many of them have an ulterior motive that's tied directly to their religious beliefs and agendas.
Love Frank
I've given to poor people and no doubt drunks all of my life without asking why.
Some here would consider me poor.
The majority of the world is poor and "it" can't be fixed for a variety of reasons - but that doesn't mean our little bit can't help.
Some here would consider me poor.
The majority of the world is poor and "it" can't be fixed for a variety of reasons - but that doesn't mean our little bit can't help.
How people choose to interpret the way they should live or spread " the word" isn't always clear to them so they pass what they know unto each generation.
It says right in the bible that not even the angels know when the end will come so I have no idea how some think they can figure it out. Soon? what is soon? our lifetime or 2000 more years? I've never worried about it. When and if it comes so be it but in the mean time we have to live in this world.
I know a certain group that I was looking into to back in the 70's and they were telling young people not to go to high school because the end was near and they would never graduate. Good thing we didn't listen and my kids went.
BTW we never joined that group or others so I remain groupless
Some things require common sense.
It says right in the bible that not even the angels know when the end will come so I have no idea how some think they can figure it out. Soon? what is soon? our lifetime or 2000 more years? I've never worried about it. When and if it comes so be it but in the mean time we have to live in this world.
I know a certain group that I was looking into to back in the 70's and they were telling young people not to go to high school because the end was near and they would never graduate. Good thing we didn't listen and my kids went.
BTW we never joined that group or others so I remain groupless
Some things require common sense.
Religious people:
Will love to pay for a "working" holiday to help people in need.
Little questions asked. Seldom it goes wrong.
Here comes the first world helping:
First thing you should know is:
First world aid organisations spend 40% of their income on internal costs.
The big players in modern aid are making big bugs.
While most religious people wouldn't take a dime if not necessary.
Religious people are a bit alike poor people, they tend to help each other out.
Doesn't matter what religion or how poor.
Just try and help out, and if it fails, start again, or start a new project remembering what went wrong the first time.
Hint: It's in the big smile you'll get! And in the tigueres showing a little more respect by helping YOU out sometime.
For me this beats getting drunk in a bar.
Nighty Night
Will love to pay for a "working" holiday to help people in need.
Little questions asked. Seldom it goes wrong.
Here comes the first world helping:
First thing you should know is:
First world aid organisations spend 40% of their income on internal costs.
The big players in modern aid are making big bugs.
While most religious people wouldn't take a dime if not necessary.
Religious people are a bit alike poor people, they tend to help each other out.
Doesn't matter what religion or how poor.
Just try and help out, and if it fails, start again, or start a new project remembering what went wrong the first time.
Hint: It's in the big smile you'll get! And in the tigueres showing a little more respect by helping YOU out sometime.
For me this beats getting drunk in a bar.
Nighty Night
Hi Frank, I hope all goes well.
But since I don't see you at the gym anymore I will have to ask here. All these long thread starters and posts like this one that we have seen lately, are they the equivalent of an off-Broadway try out of your book?
I believe if you help someone it should be because you want to, no hidden message, no religion attached. True help comes from the heart. I have seen many come and do wonderful things for the people here and then I have seen a few with their own agenda. I hear what Frank12 is saying about believing in miracles, my in-laws are a great example. I just figured they needed something to believe in. Again my own thoughts.
Here's a fascinating, thought-provoking article in today's New York Times regarding religion: Does It Matter Whether God Exists? - NYTimes.com
Frank
Frank
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This guy is all over the place and presents his tentativeness as insight. I can't believe he is teaching philosophy at Notre Dame.
I always wonder why some people think only Christian organisations can do good in this world? Where is the logic in this?
What about "Doctors without Frontiers", totally non-religious, and doing fantastic work all over the world? Just an example, as there are plenty of others...
There are plenty of Christian people, or people of other religions, who do wonderfull work, and you can only applaud them...
There are plenty of non-religious, and religious organizations who claim they do wonderfull work, whilst they are filling their own very deep pockets... They are just profit-making businesses exploiting the unsuspecting masses who donate...
I will start with a huge organisation I know in Belgium. They rake in tens of millions of dollars each year, of which 5 cents on the dollar reaches the poor.... The salaries of the board are humungous... They are totally not connected to any religion...
The same with religious organizations. How would you call a Christian School who exploits its Christian teachers, frauds the parents of the kids attending, and deliver a diploma you cannot even wipe your ass with? Believe me, when I say some teachers (young Christian adults with high ideals) are hugely disappointed when they discover the truth...
BelgianK
What about "Doctors without Frontiers", totally non-religious, and doing fantastic work all over the world? Just an example, as there are plenty of others...
There are plenty of Christian people, or people of other religions, who do wonderfull work, and you can only applaud them...
There are plenty of non-religious, and religious organizations who claim they do wonderfull work, whilst they are filling their own very deep pockets... They are just profit-making businesses exploiting the unsuspecting masses who donate...
I will start with a huge organisation I know in Belgium. They rake in tens of millions of dollars each year, of which 5 cents on the dollar reaches the poor.... The salaries of the board are humungous... They are totally not connected to any religion...
The same with religious organizations. How would you call a Christian School who exploits its Christian teachers, frauds the parents of the kids attending, and deliver a diploma you cannot even wipe your ass with? Believe me, when I say some teachers (young Christian adults with high ideals) are hugely disappointed when they discover the truth...
BelgianK
I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why humans are so worried about right and wrong. Why when no other animals care?
BTW, this should really go in the other thread.
How do you know no other animals are conscious of right and wrong.
Sam Harris: Science can answer moral questions | Video on TED.com
Hey, hey, hey. You fail to mention the thousands upon thousands of dollars DR1ers donated to build the dental clinic in Puerto Plata. I guess Alberto is a little busy for an update at the present time.
Some animals appear to have certain traits, but that hardly explains the very wide depth of difference between their "perceived" morality and humans. That's a very large leap that has no precedent.