Scope of Haitian presence in the Dominican Republic

[Mirador]

Two weeks ago I visited an automated milk farm west of San Juan de la Maguana (south of Barrancas), and about 70% of the laborers were Haitian. They lived in the premises and slept in the same shed where the animal feed was kept. I met the owner, who has a wide set of business enterprises in the province, and we had a lively conversation about the CAFTA-DR...

Did you know that over 80% of construction workers in the East (Higuey, Bavaro, Punta Cana, etc.) are Haitian?

Do you know that over 80% of farm labor in the South are Haitian?

Did you know that it is big business (profitable) to hire Haitian laborers?

Did you know that it is big business that funds the current corrupt political system?

Did I hear the word 'nationalism'?

 

[Ricardo900]

I believe you

Two weeks ago I visited an automated milk farm west of San Juan de la Maguana (south of Barrancas), and about 70% of the laborers were Haitian. They lived in the premises and slept in the same shed where the animal feed was kept. I met the owner, who has a wide set of business enterprises in the province, and we had a lively conversation about the CAFTA-DR...

Did you know that over 80% of construction workers in the East (Higuey, Bavaro, Punta Cana, etc.) are Haitian?

Do you know that over 80% of farm labor in the South are Haitian?

Did you know that it is big business (profitable) to hire Haitian laborers?

Did you know that it is big business that funds the current corrupt political system?

Did I hear the word 'nationalism'?

These stats just confirms the overall reasons why Haitians will continue to permeate Dominican society. The Rich wants Haitians and the Poor do not. Guess who'll win in the long run?

 

[Mirador]

These stats just confirms the overall reasons why Haitians will continue to permeate Dominican society. The Rich wants Haitians and the Poor do not. Guess who'll win in the long run?

Actually, Haitians do not permeate Dominican society, far from it. In the campo, barrios of towns and cities, Haitians live in tight-knit communities, unobtrusively from Dominicans. Haitians tend not to confront, antagonize, or even compete with Dominicans. Of course, there have been much publicized cases of crimes committed by Haitians in the DR, but these are very exceptional. Poor Dominicans are mostly unconcerned about the Haitians, and are not even aware that they are being crowded out from the job market by the increasing supply of Haitian workers. They blame the government, business owners, and employers for the low wages, not the Haitians' willingness to work for essentially food in their mouths.

 

[mariaobetsanov]

Go fenses make good neighbors, but the worce violators in hiring ilegals in DR are the construction companies, while looking for a house, in Santiago, the area of Villa Maria every constrution company work with Haitian... this is the reson I look for any establish area (old constrution) the way a concrete mixture is 3 sand 1 cement and turn the hose on until you think there is enough. No wounder things fall down when there are thremor. might was well get the children in the school ground to do constrution on their own schools, inferior work being done , another is the road leading from the airport to Licey the dich was build woth stone it on both sides and the road repairs is done with clay work done by the Haitians. Have been to both the ayuntamiento in Santiago and Licey, each says the other is in charge. Conplains

 

[daddy1]

You are absolutely right. this is exactly what happens in the US. Immigrants come in and work the jobs that nobody else wants for pennies and then people complain that they are stealing jobs :tired:

Yari[/QU yari...you have it all wrong Yari... American's are not complaining nor lining up to work as custodians or construction workers...they only complain about factories and manufactures who are leaving and moving over sea's to pay slave wages, instead of paying an American an honest based salary that's all....our school system here is becoming more advance every year,and the universities and black colleges are issuing many scholarships.. so the need for hard labor jobs will be availaible for many immigrants in the future, and trust me the majority will not complain!!

 

[Golo100]

Haitians are being used as "scapegoats" for all our recent failures. There is no such Haitian crisis in DR. Haitians are doing us a favor coming here as our working class is taking boats and illegal ways to leave before they starve themselves.Our women are mostly leaving for prostitution.
I saw something that should educate everyone as to the scope of the situation. I enjoyed watching today how three Haitian young laborers crossed the street. I thought they were going to a construction site, when lo and behold, they walked in as if they owned the place straight into the heavily secured Carol Morgan School entrance and went thru a gate directly into the school's greenhouse to work.
What is so amazing about this is that this is the U.S. embassy's school, which was recently remodeled with anti-terrorism barriers as heavy as the embassy itself, yet these Haitians just walked in.Teachers must carry an I.D. The Haitins had none.
Haitians are now ours. DR belongs to them as much as to us. I have Haitian neighbors in my upper class neighborhood. They are just as Dominican as we are, except they behave better and respect condominium laws better. I'm also amazed at their level of education. As I pass by them every morning we speak in English!!! Their English is college level.
What can I say??? I'm almost embarrassed to say it. But Haitians may improve our manners and education after all. I still can't understand how we sell this happy face in tourist ads when Dominicans are mostly a bunch of petty thieves and corrupted scum. Thank god I left DR when I was young and brought up under U.S. laws and society.
TW

 

[NALs]

I'm also amazed at their level of education. As I pass by them every morning we speak in English!!! Their English is college level.
What can I say???
TW

TW,

Give them their good morning's in French Creole (not Parisian French, but French Creole), revelations are truly something...

Of course they will speak in English, they prefer English or Parisian French over the language of the masses, for goodness sakes!

Have you not done business with the Haitian upper class before or simply with an educated Haitian?

It's very different from Dominican upper class, who still insist on talking to each other in good old Spanish, although in a much more refined manner than the Spanish spoken by the masses, but we can all understand each other without switching languages.

Can't say that is the case between Creole and English or Parisian French.

BTW, there is a tremendous difference between upper class Haitians and lower class Haitians. The upper class are very well educated, very respectful, and a pleasure to have a conversation with and do business.

If only all Haitians were like that... If only...

The lower class, they are ok, concidering their constant encroachment into land that is not theirs (look at some of the hills along Autopista Duarte, Haitians are the one's building illegal hovels for themselves and wiping the hillsides clean of the trees we love to see along that route), they urinate on the street as if they are still in Port-au-Prince, they beg for money and get angry at you when you don't give them anything, purchasing false birth certificates and citizenship papers, I can go on and on.

To be fair, every single low class Haitian is not obnoxious, but many sure are.

And can you knock yourself down from your anti-dominican stance.

You are a perfect example of why this country is how it is...

As a Dominican, instead of doing anything positive for the country, you prefer to act as vainly and just as hurtful to the republic as those who are still here and are corrupt!

It's the same plate, just that one is the steak and the other is the potato.

Try to become something other than what you are complaining, because based on your more recent posts, you appear to be on the same damaging trayectory towards the DR as those whom you are complaining about.

BTW, Port-au-Prince is easy to reach via Carretera Sanchez. I hear they are selling some spectacular homes in Petionville at the moment, go and feel yourself at home...

Or at the very least, stop whinning! You are already sounding like the lowest chopos of the chopos!

-NAL

 

[riravaga]

You haven´t talk anything about public services like Hospitals and Schools, they came and use the public services in the hospitals with no problems, and schools in the bateyes where more than the 75% of the child are haitians.

And the problem of the nationolaty they wants to be Dominicans, last sunday in TVE (Television Española) I was watching an inmigration program where an African woman asked about the nationolaty of her baby that will born in 3 months, she is ilegal and the answer was your babe will have your nationolaty, only if the father is from spain your babe will be from spain too.

 

[Quisqueya]

Nals,

It appears all you do best is fuel the stereotypes of the disadvantage haitians living in the DR. Yes, all educated haitians are polyglots and we are very comfortable speaking creole amongst ourselves. Why are you looking for something to make educated dominicans look like care about the disadvantage dominicans. Saying that you speak a refined spanish is already reinforcing the same superior attitudes towards your mass. Thanks for letting me know that their is a tremendous difference between upper class and lower class haitians...Same thing applies with dominicans...all the negative dysfunctional thing you applied to the disadvantage haitians applies to the disadvantage dominicans...When have you seen a poor dominican reading a book or not throwing garbage out the window when the waste basket is closer. We can go on and on about the short coming of both nations but nothing is going to change their ways.unless, the ones that know better start giving etiquette classes...and simple 'thank you' after service is rendered.


Again I am not concerned about your dislike of the OP's post but don't beat more flies off the horses rear end...Besides, can't you see the sarcastic and humour in the OP's post..relax a little..

Ok, now I will butt out and let the OP attend to your post...

 

[NALs]

Nals,

It appears all you do best is fuel the stereotypes of the disadvantage haitians living in the DR. Yes, all educated haitians are polyglots and we are very comfortable speaking creole amongst ourselves. Why are you looking for something to make educated dominicans look like care about the disadvantage dominicans. Saying that you speak a refined spanish is already reinforcing the same superior attitudes towards your mass. Thanks for letting me know that their is a tremendous difference between upper class and lower class haitians...Same thing applies with dominicans...all the negative dysfunctional thing you applied to the disadvantage haitians applies to the disadvantage dominicans...When have you seen a poor dominican reading a book or not throwing garbage out the window when the waste basket is closer. We can go on and on about the short coming of both nations but nothing is going to change their ways.unless, the ones that know better start giving etiquette classes...and simple 'thank you' after service is rendered.


Again I am not concerned about your dislike of the OP's post but don't beat more flies off the horses rear end...Besides, can't you see the sarcastic and humour in the OP's post..relax a little..

Ok, now I will butt out and let the OP attend to your post...

There is one tiny difference that makes a big impact in all of this....

The DR has to deal with its own lower class in addition to the lower class of neighboring Haiti. Make all the comparisons you want, you know very well that Haiti only deals with its own lower class because nobody elses is encroaching from either the north, south, east, or west!

And in case you have not noticed, then again you are abroad so I won't hold the candle on you for this one, there is a campaign attempting to change the behavior of Dominicans towards issue such as garbage, erratic driving, etc.

There are plenty of billboards, signs, and advertisement on television and radio asking the populace to follow the rules of the road, don't drink and drive, keep the city clean, buckle up, etc.

It all takes a little time, the US was the same in the 1970s, by the late 1980s the Americans started to get the point in all of these issues, the same will occur here. Now, last time I was in Port-au-Prince (it was a while ago) I fail to see one sign regarding garbage, erratic driving, and the sort; then again maybe I did not fail to see anything when there was nothing of the sort to see.

And about the language differences, please don't play the "oh its the same everywhere" game. You yourself know very well of what I am talking about, I am talking from personal experience. Sure, among yourself you might speak some creole, but English and French tends to dominate the homes in Petionville. I don't have to say this any more, anyone who has done business or just dealt with upper class and/or educated Haitians for a while knows what I am talking about.

And no, I am not alluding to being superior to the masses of here or anywhere. The truth is that educated Dominicans practice a Spanish that is much more correct (though still incorrect forms, words, syntax, etc get inbedded here and there) than does the mayority of the population. The mayority of the population is aware of their different speach pattern and that is why they try to speak "fino" when they are talking to a foreigner, to a person of higher education levels, or simply to a person they think is of higher status, even when its not. There is nothing wrong with the way the masses speak Spanish in this country, but the masses are aware that their Spanish version does not correlate with the official "rules" set forth from the Academy of the Spanish Language in Spain.

I can't say if that is the case with Haitians, but the truth of the matter is that French Creole is a language of its own, separate from French to the point that its recognized as such by the Haitian government itself.

It may be a humorous post with sarcasm imbedded, but there is something called bad taste. At a time when the government has its hands tied against this issue, because every time the government steps up the deportations the whisles from the NGO's the world over begin the whissle asking for the deportations to stop, this is certainly not the time to be making anything humorous or complaining when everybody has seen the responses earlier this year that led to the light up in deportations.

Supposedely the US is going to help us now control this issue of illegal migration, but that is only Hertell talking. Let's see what Washington has to say...

In all of this the one's who are getting hurt the most are those Haitians who took their time to come here legally. Why?

People look at a legal Haitian, and to them a legal Haitian is no different from an illegal. It has gotten to the point that there is a growing number of influential folks who are bending on the extreme side of wanting every Haitian deported from the country, legal or not.

I personally only want the illegals out, but most of the people who sided with me are now going the extreme way and these are not average joes from the streets. What these people think and say is highly important, because often enough it happens, one way or another.

-NAL

 

[Quisqueya]

I do understand your fustration regarding illegal immigration of only haitians to the DR but you have to ask yourself...if these illegal haitians were not here who would do all the work dominincans don't want to do. Again, its the businesses that are inticing illegal haitians to come because they will pay them less. This topic we've discussed this over n over but the fact of the matter is their is a demand for "la mano de obra" and the dominican prefer haitian worker than their own...hopefully the DR-CAFTA setting shop in haiti will lure the illegals to come back on their own turf. But again, the exploitation of people will continue and worse how is this agreement going to help jobless dominicans.

Yes, some people think that legal haitians or no different than illegal haitians. But if some bobo ever tries to deport legal haitian immigrants than DR will lose another source of revenue. There is a middle and upper class haitian community in the DR that contributes to the dominican society and will not tolerate the extremist groups who are really talking out of thier arse.. I agree that it does stigmatize the haitians that are in the DR legally but I dont think its that significant.....

Nals, no disrespect but why do we have to see what Washington have to say? What does Uncle Sam have to always be the arbitator...This is the same thing Pres. Chavez was talking about..stop being their lap dog...

 

[Criss Colon]

I See Dominicans Urinating (And Worse!) Everyday!!!!

So "Nalowls" can stop laying that one on the Haitians!!And if the Dominicans ever start putting their garbage anywhere but "Out-The-Window" it will be a miracle!! CCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[Quisqueya]

Nals,

all of your stereotypes about illegal haitian immigrants in the DR applies for the domincans. You are basically, knowing it or not, confirming the OP's post, using haitian illegal immigrants as a scapegoat..It does not matter if they are foreignors doing such dispeccable thing such as urinating in public that's just disgusting and if you feel its ok for dominicans to do because its their land then "el chopo no se queda atras"...no disrespect just calling it how I see it.....Again if the quote on quote enlighten ones tolerate this behavoir or just look down upon those that are obviously dysfunctional people than who do we really problem...

When was the last time a dominican didn't try to screw a customer on anything..that to me is part of the dysfunctional behavior that also is infamous in the dominican community...instead of charging the norm, they over charge u and even if they see the customer is aware that they are getting screwed they continue to get over on them that one day and not realizing it would be better to treat the customer fairly and have a consistent clientel...I guess the motto is "its better to screw you for 10 pesos today than have a repeat customer"....

We can go on and on about jack --- ways of both people but will it change anything...stop the scapegoat tactics...we all know there is an influx of illegal immigration of haitians into the DR but blaming them for something that was prevelant in your society isn't resolving the issue...

Q.

 

[NALs]

I do understand your fustration regarding illegal immigration of only haitians

Frustration regarding illegal migration, period.

I don't care if the illegals are Haitians, Cubans, Colombians, you name it (and all three have relatively large numbers of illegals here, Colombians even need a Visa to come now!).

It's not my fault that most illegals are Haitians, but all illegals I put in the same basket.

to the DR but you have to ask yourself...if these illegal haitians were not here who would do all the work dominincans don't want to do.

Much of the works illegals do can be mechanized, such as cutting cane and the sort.

Remember, we got industries here that employ 5 people to do something that normally would take only one person to do, why? The price of labor is very cheap and the lower the price goes depends on the supply.

You know this...

I always wonder why Dominicans don't apply for coffee picking here, but in Puerto Rico the people picking coffee are, no it can't be, Dominicans!!

Hmm...

Why would Dominicans pick coffee in PR, if they don't want to do that here?

Well, the answer is simple, picking coffee in Puerto Rico pays more than picking coffee in DR and people always follow the money, so please stop saying Dominicans don't want to do those jobs.

Everybody will do anything, for a price...

Again, its the businesses that are inticing illegal haitians to come because they will pay them less.

The bulk of the perpetrators for illegal migration is the sugar industry and that industry is on its way out of existence.

Where will all those Haitian braceros go? What will happen to the wages in the other sectors once those braceros begin to flood the other sectors, which many are already flooded with cheap illegal labor?

hopefully the DR-CAFTA setting shop in haiti will lure the illegals to come back on their own turf.

Not at all, every economic agreement done all over the world benefits those involved in the agreement and those countries that trade with those involved in the agreement.

But, the biggest beneficiaries are those involved, not those benefiting indirectly.

The DR is the country that has benefited the most from the Caribbean Basin Economic Initiative agreement signed between the United States and several Caribbean nations. This initiative allows Dominican products to enter the US duty free and this agreement has been around for a few decades already.

The DR benefited the most from all Caribbean countries as has been proven in study after study of this, and so too has Haiti benefited through economic trade to the DR. But, has that changed the tide of illegal migration?

Look around, the answer is obvious...

There is a middle and upper class haitian community in the DR that contributes to the dominican society and will not tolerate the extremist groups who are really talking out of thier arse..

Nobody is talking about these Haitians, these are actually encouraged to move to this country. We need more educated, economically heeled people.

You know this very well and you know very well that when people talk about legal Haitians, they are referring to those legal here and poor, in addition to every single Haitian who is here illegal, but even high income Haitians who are here illegally are not counted in the same basket as those who are poor and illegal.

You know this very well, especially if you are of the well to do of Haitians with family members here, so please, stop playing politics.

I agree that it does stigmatize the haitians that are in the DR legally but I dont think its that significant.....

It is for those Haitians who are here legally and are poor at the sametime.

Nals, no disrespect but why do we have to see what Washington have to say?

Because what an ambassador of any country says almost always is different from what the officials of their respective countries say of any issue.

Hertell can say anything he wants in attempts of pleasing the locals, if Washington says something else regarding this issue, guess what, Washington wins and Hertell would have to come up with a way of blending what he previously said with what Washington declares.

Thus, let's see what Washington has to say about this situation.

What does Uncle Sam have to always be the arbitator...This is the same thing Pres. Chavez was talking about..stop being their lap dog...

I was referring to Hertell's recent comment on the US interest in helping the DR control the illegal migration flow.

Thus, my comment on let's wait and see what Washington has to say about this as oppose to what Hertell said on a meeting sorrounded by Dominicans.

Let's the see the correlation between the two messages.

-NAL

 

[NALs]

So "Nalowls" can stop laying that one on the Haitians!!And if the Dominicans ever start putting their garbage anywhere but "Out-The-Window" it will be a miracle!! CCCCCCCCCCCC

Well,

I can also go on and on about foreigners cheating on their wives (and vice versa) in tourist towns and resorts all over this island as well.

I see plenty of Dominicans doing that too, but it does not changes the fact that we also got foreigners doing that as well.

When a Dominican does something, all we can say is "look at that guy, he has no manners".

When a foreigner does something, we can say "we don't need that odasity here, he should go to his country to do that".

Why? Because with one we are stuck with, but the other is not ours, end of story!

Go around wearing short pants, people will look at you and say "otro gringo". Let a Dominican wear short pants, the names range from chopo, to dominicanyork, to tasteless bum, you name it.

Please, don't play politics.

-NAL

 

[NALs]

Nals,

all of your stereotypes about illegal haitian immigrants in the DR applies for the domincans. You are basically, knowing it or not, confirming the OP's post, using haitian illegal immigrants as a scapegoat..It does not matter if they are foreignors doing such dispeccable thing such as urinating in public that's just disgusting and if you feel its ok for dominicans to do because its their land then "el chopo no se queda atras"...no disrespect just calling it how I see it.....Again if the quote on quote enlighten ones tolerate this behavoir or just look down upon those that are obviously dysfunctional people than who do we really problem...

When was the last time a dominican didn't try to screw a customer on anything..that to me is part of the dysfunctional behavior that also is infamous in the dominican community...instead of charging the norm, they over charge u and even if they see the customer is aware that they are getting screwed they continue to get over on them that one day and not realizing it would be better to treat the customer fairly and have a consistent clientel...I guess the motto is "its better to screw you for 10 pesos today than have a repeat customer"....

We can go on and on about jack --- ways of both people but will it change anything...stop the scapegoat tactics...we all know there is an influx of illegal immigration of haitians into the DR but blaming them for something that was prevelant in your society isn't resolving the issue...

Q.

Do you mean how you are scapegoating Dominicans right now?

Always assuming that a Dominican is scapegoating a Haitian when a Dominican says something that is true?

How come nobody called you a scapegoat spreading stereotypes when you called a Dominican here on DR1 on another thread a spick?

How come nobody blamed you of stereotyping when you mention that whites from the Cibao think they are better than everybody?

How come nobody blamed you of stereotyping when you mentioned that Dominicans don't know what to do when they see a light skinned Haitian?

Or how about the time you posted that you will put every Dominican in his place, as if what a Haitian says is the almighty truth?

You know very well that every Dominican is not like that, and yet you went on your scapegoating, stereotyping rant and nobody said anything.

A Dominican gives a slight hint of something about Haitians, and suddenly the "oh, you guys do that too", "oh, you are scapegoating", "oh, you are stereotyping" deluge begin.

This reminds me of the time I started to reveal all the things I know about the Haitian elite and how they regard their masses (though you will never know it whenever the issue is an anti-Dominican issue). What did you said? That I don't know that much about Haitians.

What was my response? I never said I knew everything about Haitians, but I am posting what I know. And guess what, that was the end of that debate!

Quisqueya, you are not Pontius Pilot, so stop washing your hands when your hands are dirty too!

-NAL

 

[Pana]

Go around wearing short pants, people will look at you and say "otro gringo". Let a Dominican wear short pants, the names range from chopo, to dominicanyork, to tasteless bum, you name it.

Please, don't play politics.

-NAL

I wear shorts in the day time when Im in Republica Dominicana, I dont care what people think about me I have more money than the average upper class in the DR.