Social Conditioning of Dominicans through History?? What Do You Think??

Status
Not open for further replies.

Miacol

New member
Apr 22, 2010
19
12
0
when did obama say haiti and the dr should be one country?

This has been mentioned on several Spanish news channels, it's never mentioned on English news channels.

Hillary Clinton has mentioned several times that this government believes it's in the best interest of Haiti and the Dominican Republic to merge and become the country of Hispaniola. Obama discussed the situation with Presidente Leonel Fernandez on several occasions most notably during the July meeting, which after Leonel travels to NYC and was asked which his response was "While many outsiders which us to merge, the Dominican Republic is a sovereign and free nation, and we will remain as such". Leonel took allot of heat because many believed and still believe that he was selling out the country to ensure his personal success by merging the Island into one country.
 

Miacol

New member
Apr 22, 2010
19
12
0
first of all, Miacol, i will take the liberty to assume that by Jamicians you really intend to mean Jamaicans. secondly, kindly refer me to a link or text which documents this attempted invasion of the DR. i have never heard of this, and i am a man of advancing years. i am all ears, so, fire away.

Thank you for the spelling correction, not my best subject. Invasion is a strong word and I went to correct it but it was past my 10 minutes. It was more of a small skirmish in open waters, which caused a small tension between both nations, according to documentation this occured in the late 1890's. My great grandmother and grandmother spoke of it as well as others I met during the early 1980's when I meet them, but for the most part latter generations do not really speak of it. My mom and uncle mention it but they don't have bad or good feeling toward it.
 

Miacol

New member
Apr 22, 2010
19
12
0
After the 2010 earthquake???

Yes after the 2010 earthquake, and how about the 10 Dominican business men that were killed as they got home to steal their belongings by Haitian gangs.... the list goes on.

The information seen in the USA is very one sided and no one wants to shed negative light on Haitans.
 

elbachatero6504

New member
Sep 26, 2010
73
24
0
That was a political move more than anything else, and the purpose was to boost his image abroad, which eventually it did. Otherwise, how can anyone explain the anti-Semitic laws that Trujillo put in place a few years afterwards, including limiting the Jewish presence to Sos?a with any Jew found outside of there to be swiftly deported back to that town.



The Japanese were mostly settled in the up-until-then uninhabited Constanza Valley. The Japanese that arrived were experts in developing temperate climate crops, which thanks to the cool climate of the Constanza Valley, those crops flourish there to this very day and that is the only place in the entire Caribbean where that is made possible.

This notion that they were used to ?create a virtual fence to further deter the entrance of Haitians? is seriously challenged by the fact that the Constanza Valley is nowhere near the Haitian border and the valley is where most of the Japanese were sent.

Now, what Trujillo did do was move some DOMINICAN families to the border region, and this was done precisely to make it easier to spot an illegal Haitian immigrant, since Haitians look different from most Dominicans.



That was an attempt of attracting whites of the Latin variety, however they had to be farmers and many were pressured to form families with Dominican women. One has to wonder they the regime didn?t encourage the immigration of white women or even pressured the Spaniards to form family with white Dominican women. Nothing would have worked better at whitening the population than creating more white people, and yet that was not the case.

Some, like the Hungarians, were mostly deported almost as soon as they were brought due to their mischievous ways. All the whites were free to leave the country if they desired to, the Dominican government was even willing to pay for their return trip. This was sort of oxymoronic when it comes to a whitening plan at a time in human history when notions of white supremacy and the notion that white people were essential to create a society with white-European standards of living and ways of doing things (ie. European lifestyles which to this day is what?s considered modern, decent and desirable vs. Native American/African/Asian ways of life which were seen as backwards, harsh, undesirable, etc). For example, living in a cement home with tile roofs, European furniture, etc. is seen as the way all people should live; that contrasts sharply with the opinion people have of living in a wooden hut with dirt floors, rattan home-made furniture, zinc or thatch roofs, etc.

In any case, the migration of whites during the Trujillo dictatorship was so negligible that the white segment of the population didn?t even rise by one percentage points. By the end of the Trujillo dictatorship, most of the white families where the same ones that existed before Trujillo was even born.

The acceptance of Spanish exiles was also a way of Trujillo showing loyalty of sorts to Spanish dictator Franco, who was a very close friend of Trujillo to the degree that Franco accepted to be the baptism godfather of A?da Trujillo.

One thing many people ignore is that the Dominican population of the time was overall much whiter than it is today. There were many towns that had white majorities, even some in the eastern region like Hig?ey according to the Spanish refugee Jos? Forn? Farreras in his 1943 memoirs (see page 38, second paragraph). This, however, was more prevalent in the Cibao, at that time it was where most of the population (urban and rural combined) lived. You can search other memoirs written by foreigners that settled and others that simply visited the country, and their description of the Dominican population in the different towns and regions slightly differs from today?s reality.



People do try to add to ?that list?, but in reality the massacre was simply an anti-illegal immigration act (many were expelled, the others that decided to defend their stay were eliminated), and this becomes clear when the following is taken into account:

- Documented Haitian immigrants (in that time most were working in the sugarcane industry) were left alone.
- The descendants of the Libertos (African-Americans that were brought by the Haitians and settled mostly in Saman?, Puerto Plata, and the Santo Domingo area) were left alone.
- The descendants of Cocolos and the Cocolos themselves (black immigrants from the British West Indies ? Jamaica, Tortola, St Lucia, Barbados, etc) were left alone.
- Black Dominicans were left alone.

Who were eliminated?

- Basically, illegal Haitian immigrants in the border region.
- Unfortunate black Dominicans that had trouble properly saying perejil, and these were few and far between.

Have you ever wondered why the word perejil was used in this operation? If it was a black racial cleaning attempt, the military guards would had been ordered to eliminate any black person they see, and the massacre would not had been limited to the border region. And if this was not just an anti-illegal immigrant scheme and purely an anti-Haitian scheme, then the Haitians that had their documents that allowed them to work temporarily in the DR would had also been eliminated, and yet they were not.

In any case, massacres are a ?normal? part of the history of the island. Ironically, more massacres were created by the Haitian government than the Dominican government (the multiple massacres of mulattoes that took place through out Haiti (see here and here), the massacre of Dominicans on Dominican soil ordered by the Haitian government (see here), etc. vs. one massacre of undocumented Haitians under Trujillo ?a man that solved everything with the sword ?I say this was due to his training to live and think like a Marine, a Marine without control- and ended up killing over 30,000 Dominicans in total for pure political reasons).



The opposite is true, the ?violence? tends to be isolated and more an exception than the rule, usually after a Haitian criminal does something brutal to a Dominican, such as murder, rape, etc. Other than this, the ?violence? you speak of is more part of your imagination than anything else.

Much more interesting was the Dominican response through out January, February, March, even in to April towards Haiti and Haitians after the earthquake. Do a quick search, you will find plenty to defy your logic of this ?violence? you speak of.



That?s what happens when people move illegally to another country and live outside the legal framework. Take a look at how things function among illegal immigrants in the US. Race has nothing to do with this, not following the rules does. Had race been an issue, the 200,000 or so legal Haitians in the DR would also be relegated to the bottom of the barrel, and yet their Dominican born kids are given Dominican nationality with no hesitation (not so for the illegals), they legally work in formal jobs with benefits such as health insurance, paid vacations, etc (not so for the illegals), etc. Do you see a pattern here between being legal vs illegal?

And to make matters even more interesting, getting a visa in the Dominican embassy in Port-au-Prince or at the consulate in Cap Haitien is a very easy and straight-forward process. Unless the person doesn?t suffer from a disease such as aids or malaria, and are able to finance the cost of the transactions; they will have their legal visa to enter the DR for touristic, residency, working, studying, etc. purposes in no time.



First of all, batey conditions are no worse than the standard of living of the typical rural Haitian family in Haiti and they earn more than the average Haitian makes in Haiti; so if batey conditions and labor is ?slaving?, then all of Haiti is a huge slavery camp, which it isn?t.

Second, the Haitian population in the DR is approaching 2 million. The population of all the bateys combined is less than 30,000. Please explain to everyone how 1.5% equals a large portion of the Haitian population.

For the record:

Regarding the guy that claimed that Jamaicans attempted to invade the DR, he?s partly correct, however it was not Jamaicans, but the British during colonial times (they also attempted to invade Haiti). Whenever the British attempted to capture any place in the Caribbean or Central America, they always departed from Jamaica which has been a British stronghold since the 1600s. Even today, descendants of immigrants from the British West Indies (ie. Cocolos) are sometimes referred to as Ingleses (the English) by many Dominicans.

Also, at no time in Dominican history has most Haitians in the country ever worked for the Vicini?s. The largest employer (even today) in the country has been the Central Romana, which up until the 1970s, was owned by an American family from New York. The other big employer of Haitian cane cutters was the Dominican government itself, but this is no longer true since a good deal of the sugar cane fields owned by the government are no longer in operation. Also keep in mind that when the sugar industry was being developed from the late 1880s until the 1930s, it was overwhelmingly owned and operated by foreigners who had no qualms about imported foreign labor, despite the native Dominican population?s desires first due to linguistically/cultural/religious differences and then due to historical animosities. At first the labor source was the British West Indies, most of who were English speakers, Protestants, and had an Anglo way of interpreting things which clashed with the Dominican way which has always been Spanish speaking, Catholic, and Latin. Then, during the American military invasion from 1916 to 1929, the Americans, who also had troops in Haiti, started to take a greater stake in Dominican sugar and began using Haiti as a source of labor. From the 1930s to the 1980s the Dominican state began to take a larger stake in the sugar industry, then in the 1990s it started to go downhill and has never fully recovered. This is why today the two biggest players in the sugar industry is the Central Romana (currently owned by a Cuban-American family that lives in South Florida, and also are the largest sugar producers over there. One brother is a democrat and donates large sums of money to that party while the other is a republican and also donates large sums of money to that party. They have done quite a deal in influencing the US government to give preferential treatment to American produced sugar -aka, their family business- AND give Dominican sugar preferential treatment -aka, their family business again!-. They did got in trouble in the US for importing Jamaican laborers to South Florida to work the fields, which is why their Florida plantations are completely mechanized and the US government deported all the Jamaicans back to Jamaica; their Dominican operation is still highly dependent on Haitian labor). Central Romana makes up roughly 60 to 70% of the Dominican sugar industry; much of the rest is Casa Vicini, who are mechanizing their operations up to 80%. There are a few other players, but they are rather small and unimportant.

Thank you for your objective, well written, thorough and respectful post. Now I know more.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
NALs: As so often happens you get this just a bit wrong.

Originally Posted by elbachatero6504
…he allowed the entrance of Japanese in the 1930's (making them a virtual fence to further deter the entrance of Haitians)
The Japanese were mostly settled in the up-until-then uninhabited Constanza Valley. The Japanese that arrived were experts in developing temperate climate crops, which thanks to the cool climate of the Constanza Valley, those crops flourish there to this very day and that is the only place in the entire Caribbean where that is made possible.

This notion that they were used to ‘create a virtual fence to further deter the entrance of Haitians’ is seriously challenged by the fact that the Constanza Valley is nowhere near the Haitian border and the valley is where most of the Japanese were sent.

Now, what Trujillo did do was move some DOMINICAN families to the border region, and this was done precisely to make it easier to spot an illegal Haitian immigrant, since Haitians look different from most Dominicans.


Japanese were sent to Dajabon and Pedernales as well as El?as Pi?a....I can give you names if you want.

However, the whole discussion is tainted with tiny mistakes or minor exaggerations...

Not much of an answer as to whether or not the citizen of today has been shaped by his culture throughout history.

HB
 
  • Like
Reactions: MerengueDutchie

Miacol

New member
Apr 22, 2010
19
12
0
No Dominican's aren't in denial about anything. You are! You don't think that when a Dominicano prieto bembon con cabello malo looks at himself in the mirror in the morning, say's to himself "yaaaawnnn hello there Brad Pitt". Heck no, he knows he's black! You also gotta stop this whole we consider Haitians the enemy garbage, your P!$$!n me off with that stuff. Haitians have gone far on this side of the island. President's, businessman, priests, doctors etc, etc. Haitians have been able to do it all on THIS side. On the other side you have reverse racial discrimination and apartheid against anybody lighter than Wesley Snipes.

So enough about how we victimize "them", the "OTHER". We ain't social conditioned we Dominican's call it like it is, if we want to say; indio, rubio prieto, javao, leave us be. Accept us, don't be bustin in here with your played out North American ULTRA leftist, progressive mumbo jumbo spewin cool aid PC, crap.

I know I'm going to take heat for this, but what I think (and this is my opinion and my opinion alone) I think we are more aware of it because of the problems we have had with Haiti. So we make an effort to separate ourselves from what we consider their heritage like our African roots. Granted we identify more with the Tianos and Spaniards and we don't deny we have African roots, but we tend to stay away from learning about Africans from maybe fear of becoming like Haitians? Or not wanting associations with Haitians? And could this be why we look for other words to identify ourselves other then black? On the same note I would like to state that it's true Haitians have done well for themselves. I know many Haitians (not friends, I'm aware of them), who are in the DR legally and do well. The illegal immigrants due suffer from the same similar treatments as illegal?s in the USA (actually I would say a bit better then USA illegals).
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,517
3,210
113
Japanese were sent to Dajabon and Pedernales as well as El?as Pi?a....I can give you names if you want.

HB
I know that, but most of them ended up in the Constanza Valley and that's what I said, as well as most of the people that were settled in the border were Dominicans.

BTW, I made a typo in the date of departure of the American forces, it was in 1922 not 1929.
 

greydread

Platinum
Jan 3, 2007
17,477
488
83
Thank you for the spelling correction, not my best subject. Invasion is a strong word and I went to correct it but it was past my 10 minutes. It was more of a small skirmish in open waters, which caused a small tension between both nations, according to documentation this occured in the late 1890's. My great grandmother and grandmother spoke of it as well as others I met during the early 1980's when I meet them, but for the most part latter generations do not really speak of it. My mom and uncle mention it but they don't have bad or good feeling toward it.

Was this a band of Jamaican pirates? Jamaica wasn't even a country then and as a Crown Colony the people whom we know and recognize as Jamaicans today weren't much better off than during slavery and the British controlled everything that came and went. The Caribbean was heavily patrolled by European naval forces and other than an argument between fishing vessels I don't see how anything other than a group of rogue pirates could have been involved. Certainly not to the point of being considered "an invasion".

Is there any written chronicle of the event? I'd like to know more.
 

elbachatero6504

New member
Sep 26, 2010
73
24
0
No Dominican's aren't in denial about anything. You are! You don't think that when a Dominicano prieto bembon con cabello malo looks at himself in the mirror in the morning, say's to himself "yaaaawnnn hello there Brad Pitt". Heck no, he knows he's black! You also gotta stop this whole we consider Haitians the enemy garbage, your P!$$!n me off with that stuff. Haitians have gone far on this side of the island. President's, businessman, priests, doctors etc, etc. Haitians have been able to do it all on THIS side. On the other side you have reverse racial discrimination and apartheid against anybody lighter than Wesley Snipes.

So enough about how we victimize "them", the "OTHER". We ain't social conditioned we Dominican's call it like it is, if we want to say; indio, rubio prieto, javao, leave us be. Accept us, don't be bustin in here with your played out North American ULTRA leftist, progressive mumbo jumbo spewin cool aid PC, crap.

First, I have no intention to offend or to p!$$ anyone off about anything. If you think I am in denial I would have to disagree, but I guess you just call it like it is. I never said that all Dominican's think all Haitians are the enemy, what I said was, 'Haitians are generally viewed as 'the enemy', and at the very least an unwelcomed nuisance in the country', again generally as in NOT all. But tenga la bondad if you will and take a glimpse at this video YouTube - Shades of the Border and you will see the basis of what I am saying - 2 RANDOM children speaking about how they DO NOT like Haitians. What is interesting to see is that these 2 young lads OBVIOUSLY have no idea what they are really saying as they contradict themselves by calling the person they don't like 'their friend', so obviously they get this reasoning from either their parents, relatives or just a general soaking up of what they have been fed about Haitians in Society. So you have 2 random kids, on a random street, who are obviously just repeating what has been told to them. This is just one example of many. That is why I said 'generally', not all, but a considerable number. Perhaps some have gone 'far' on the Dominican side, but how many have NOT?? How many have not gone anywhere at all?? I guarantee you that if you compare the numbers you will find more WITHOUT these affluent jobs you speak of.
Furthermore my argument is NOT about discrimination, nor how one side is victimized etc as I thought my disclaimer oh so clearly conveyed, but I guess since you call it like is so well, you didn't notice that. You seem to be at least a little upset about the implications of my argument. Again that is not my intention, pero como dicen 'en mi pai' "If the shoe fits.....", meaning that if your feathers are so ruffled by a simple question, it could possibly indicate that there may be some underlying issues involved in the subject that you yourself have not addressed sufficiently.
I am NOT saying that Dominicans 'victimize' Haitians, one of my best friends is Dominican and he has NO trace of partiality in him anywhere. I am also aware of the hatred and violence meted out by Haitians during their occupation of the Island. But as mentioned that is not the intent of my post so that needs not be mentioned. You can indeed call it anyway you want. But subjectively speaking, I wonder what people would say if Black people here began to use Indian to describe their skin complexion. I wonder how other people would view us.......as calling it like it is, or being in denial??? Who knows??? Who cares??? You and I obviously don't.

- Side note - "don't be bustin in here with your played out North American ULTRA leftist, progressive mumbo jumbo spewin cool aid PC, crap" LOL!! That was actually pretty nice how you put all those words together, too bad they are not really that applicable to me. :)
 

elbachatero6504

New member
Sep 26, 2010
73
24
0
Being married to a Dominican who knows she is black and has joked with her cousins about how one cousin (more like a brother) of equally dark dark complexion adamantly insists he is a blanco, I'd have to say there is some funny and very varied racial thinking going on. Although I haven't noticed anything as hateful and violent as what I used to see in the US and Europe forty years ago. As for the contention between between Haitians and Dominicans I have only witnessed it in the posts of DR1 (I'm sure we'll see more here soon). I have only witnessed in person, complete respect and compassion in the actions of Dominicans towards Haitians. Even to the point of harboring illegal street vendors, underground railroad style, during immigration crackdowns in Santo domingo.

Well thats great, thats how it should be anyway, peaceful. Violence only begets more violence.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
Yes after the 2010 earthquake, and how about the 10 Dominican business men that were killed as they got home to steal their belongings by Haitian gangs.... the list goes on.

The information seen in the USA is very one sided and no one wants to shed negative light on Haitans.
So now you're backtracking from your original claim that Haitians massacred the inhabitants of an entire town and toning it down to 10 businessmen? Are you sure you're not confusing this with the tragic deaths of Dominican engineers who were working in Haiti and were killed in the quake itself?

This is your earlier post:

Miacol said:
After the earthquake, no American news organization documented the Haitians that cross the border and killed a small town of 200 Dominicans (child, woman and man). All you see is what is shown to you without studying the entire picture.

I believe there was a criminal attack on an aid convoy but it involved fewer than 10 victims and certainly not a town full of women, men and children - as you tried to lead us to believe.

How do you think we can take this seriously? Let's say the news was suppressed in the US because of a reluctance to portray a negative image of Haiti, what about the DR press? Surely they reported this massacre in extensive detail? Where are the links?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keith R

elbachatero6504

New member
Sep 26, 2010
73
24
0
I know I'm going to take heat for this, but what I think (and this is my opinion and my opinion alone) I think we are more aware of it because of the problems we have had with Haiti. So we make an effort to separate ourselves from what we consider their heritage like our African roots. Granted we identify more with the Tianos and Spaniards and we don't deny we have African roots, but we tend to stay away from learning about Africans from maybe fear of becoming like Haitians? Or not wanting associations with Haitians? And could this be why we look for other words to identify ourselves other then black? On the same note I would like to state that it's true Haitians have done well for themselves. I know many Haitians (not friends, I'm aware of them), who are in the DR legally and do well. The illegal immigrants due suffer from the same similar treatments as illegal?s in the USA (actually I would say a bit better then USA illegals).

Thanks for being subjective and respectful. And IF that has even any portion of truth, that is NOT a horrible, awful thing making everyone bad or evil, it simple means that people CAN be conditioned to think a certain way over a period of time if fed a certain propanganda. I know because admittedly Black people were certainly conditioned here in America!! So thats why it is not a foreign concept for me to think that it could at least POSSIBLY be occurring in the Dominican Republic, ESPECIALLY since the issues at hand have a similar dynamic. Being brought over as slaves from Africa, we (generally speaking) were VERY quickly made to believe that we were inferior, of lesser value and expendable. So naturally, we begin to think about what it meant to be Black in a place where being Black was a disadvantage. Mulatto Black's were still considered to be n*gro, but you would certainly prefer to be a lighter Black person than a darker one. We began to dislike even our own selves, not because we honestly did not like who we were, but rather what it IMPLIED for our future survival.

So all I am saying is that I see that SAME type of thinking and dynamic in regards to Haitian-Dominican relationships. Regardless of WHY its there, or HOW it got there, regardless of what Haitians did to the Dominican or what the Dominicans did to the Haitians, regardless of what anybody did, I think it is reasonable to say that there is a clear and defined understanding that permeates Dominican society that being darker is not as desirable as it is to be lighter. And I think political agendas, and propaganda has had much to do with it, thats all I'm saying.
 

the gorgon

Platinum
Sep 16, 2010
33,997
83
0
greydread, you beat me to the punch. i was mainly going to let the poster know that Jamaica was not an independent country until the beginning of the sixties, so, any invasion, or attempt, would have been by the British.
 

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,580
6,005
113
dr1.com
So all I am saying is that I see that SAME type of thinking and dynamic in regards to Haitian-Dominican relationships. Regardless of WHY its there, or HOW it got there, regardless of what Haitians did to the Dominican or what the Dominicans did to the Haitians, regardless of what anybody did, I think it is reasonable to say that there is a clear and defined understanding that permeates Dominican society that being darker is not as desirable as it is to be lighter. And I think political agendas, and propaganda has had much to do with it, thats all I'm saying.

While I don't disagree with you I don't think it is as prevalent or as important anymore as you imply. My wife's school has approx 350 children and they are all colours in the human sprectrum of colour as are the teachers. All children are treated equally. The Haitian woman that teaches French is very black and she is treated with respect and affection by all the teachers and children also. There are many light skinned Dominican guys that marry very dark skinned Dominican women, and vice versa. I've myself am as white a gringo can be without being a redhead and I know I treat everyone as equal as I can regardless of colour, until I feel disrepected. Then I ignore. I speak with a haitian guy that I've known in Jarabacoa for about 6 years. His English skills are quite good, so is his French and Spanish. He has told me that as long as none of the young Haitian guys cause any problems they are all treated well. I can't speak for Dominicans or Haitians, just what I've observed. I know my wife's family has no ill feelings towards Haitians but they are concerned about the numbers of them in the DR AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOUR.
 

woofsback

Bronze
Dec 20, 2009
706
233
0
colour is an adult perception

take 100 kids same 4-6 of all different colours race and religon
place them in a room together

the only fighting they will ever do is over the toys
they learn from those older how to seperate colour from personality
thier opinions are formed by those older that they learn from
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chelleyyyyy

Mariot

New member
Oct 13, 2009
276
30
0
This has been mentioned on several Spanish news channels, it's never mentioned on English news channels.

Hillary Clinton has mentioned several times that this government believes it's in the best interest of Haiti and the Dominican Republic to merge and become the country of Hispaniola. Obama discussed the situation with Presidente Leonel Fernandez on several occasions most notably during the July meeting, which after Leonel travels to NYC and was asked which his response was "While many outsiders which us to merge, the Dominican Republic is a sovereign and free nation, and we will remain as such". Leonel took allot of heat because many believed and still believe that he was selling out the country to ensure his personal success by merging the Island into one country.

can anybody please elaborate on this? i have never heard this claim outside the dominican republic, and to be honest, it doesn't make sense to me. first off, i don't see how this would benefit haiti, the dr or the international community, second i don't see how high ranking politicians would come to the conclusion that this was beneficial, and above all, doable and third i can't see how an administration that has two failed wars, a deep economic crisis, a failed state with nukes, a communist state with an insane leader an nukes, a hysteric right and the insolvable middle east conflict on its plate would waste any energy on trying to talk leonel fernandez into a unification that they know would create more trouble than it would solve. finally, if the us and european powers had really set their mind onto forcing the dominican government into doing something, it would have to comply because it simply doesn't hold enough weight to refuse. unlike jamaica, the us has invaded the country more than once in order to get a point across.
so until i see some non dominican links i consider this ducktales.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keith R

Taino808

Bronze
Oct 10, 2010
959
44
0
As I read all these varying sentiments, I felt the need to put my two cents in. From my point of view, I beleive that most Dominicans see the Hatians and their culture as part of a socially deviant subculture. I say this because as one culture (Dominican)begin and strive to advance, the other (Hatian) is seen as dorment, and in many ways backwards. Most Dominicans are either of the Catholic or Christian faith, whereas Hatians are perceived as paganist or of the spiritual and ritual practices, commenlly know to us all as Voodoo. Sure I beleive that these little variations is what distinguishes us from one another more than the color barrier..
 
  • Like
Reactions: woofsback

wrecksum

Bronze
Sep 27, 2010
2,063
96
48
can anybody please elaborate on this? i have never heard this claim outside the dominican republic, and to be honest, it doesn't make sense to me. first off, i don't see how this would benefit haiti, the dr or the international community, second i don't see how high ranking politicians would come to the conclusion that this was beneficial, and above all, doable and third i can't see how an administration that has two failed wars, a deep economic crisis, a failed state with nukes, a communist state with an insane leader an nukes, a hysteric right and the insolvable middle east conflict on its plate would waste any energy on trying to talk leonel fernandez into a unification that they know would create more trouble than it would solve. finally, if the us and european powers had really set their mind onto forcing the dominican government into doing something, it would have to comply because it simply doesn't hold enough weight to refuse. unlike jamaica, the us has invaded the country more than once in order to get a point across.
so until i see some non dominican links i consider this ducktales.

Yes. Well put.
I agree wholeheartedly,
Can someone post a reasonable link to this hypothesis please?
 

caribNY

New member
Jun 20, 2010
143
14
0
I know my wife's family has no ill feelings towards Haitians but they are concerned about the numbers of them in the DR AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOUR.


Just for my information. In Santo Domingo can you tell me whether the dominant skin color of inhabitants of wealthy neighborhoods are the same as the poor ghettoes? In other words can one observe the same proportions of light and dark skinned peoples in each?

If skin color/race/phenotype isnt an issue in the DR (its clear that there are no ethnc/cultural differences between Dominicans of different skin colors which one might argue would lead to different values thus impacting socio-economic out comes) then one wouldnt expect to see any difference? If there is why do you think so? The DR doesnt have the legacy of slavery to the extent of say Cuba or Brazil to explain this.
 

caribNY

New member
Jun 20, 2010
143
14
0
Was this a band of Jamaican pirates? Jamaica wasn't even a country then and as a Crown Colony the people whom we know and recognize as Jamaicans today weren't much better off than during slavery and the British controlled everything that came and went. The Caribbean was heavily patrolled by European naval forces and other than an argument between fishing vessels I don't see how anything other than a group of rogue pirates could have been involved. Certainly not to the point of being considered "an invasion".

Is there any written chronicle of the event? I'd like to know more.

This is absolutely correct. Furthermore Britain would not have been involved in any petty skirmish with any impoverished nation as in the late 19th Century they were THE global super power too busy pursuing commercial interests globally and managing their huge empire.

I also doubt that bands of black Jamaicans went roaming the seas looking for trouble either....the excuse that was offered for why "Jamaicans" are the blacks "not liked" along with Haitians by Dominicans. I am not making this assertion....

Maybe you mean cocolos who didnt come from Jamaica but from islands like St Kitts, Tortola, St Maarten and St Thomas. But they came as cheap labor brought in by US sugar interests. They initially did have problems and Trujillo wasnt keen on their presence either.

Dominicans are now migratiing to mnay parts of the Caribbean in search of a better life. They are hired, in the main, as cheap labor. While some locals might consider this an "invasion", given linguistic and cultural differences, and accusations that they are willing to settle for lower wages, employers hire them. The same as was the case with cocolos.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.