Sosa will soon retire....officially

rsg

Bronze
Oct 21, 2008
787
219
0
That's ludicrous.
He's never won a damn thing other than a HR title. Please name a few of "the many" in the HOF today that he's more deserving than.

This argument that there's no proof of Sammy doing steroids is for ostriches. The guy went on the DL from sneezing too hard. He used a corked bat. He probably cheats his kids on their allowances.

The guy went from a rail to an Adonis over the course of a few years, during the "Steroid Era" but because there is no smoking gun (and he apparently doesn't know enough English to answer questions before Congress) he's clean and you're ready to put him in the HOF?

Your letting your opinions determine the facts you care to notice.
I didnt know that winning titles was a requirement to be worthy of the hall.

O.K., where do you want to start,larry doby,yea larry who?
Bill MAZEROSKI,138 HOME RUNS AND A 260 LIFE TIME AVERAGE..WOW!!!
How about that barely 50% winning hall picture phill Niekro..I think thats enough..
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
1,797
6
0
How's the sand smell?

Show me in which study the steroid use is linked with sneezing hard and get injured, hell I can even pull a Hernia if I sneeze hard. That you don't like the guy is one thing, but to apply non-sense fact into getting Sammy out of the HOF is other.

If Reinaldo Parez Perez subpoeaned you to Congress to answer some accusations, will you go alone with your chopped spanish to Congress or will you be intelligent and go with your lawyer so he can answer the questions correctly in proper spanish?
I love the guy. Well, 'love' is a strong word, but I do really like the guy. But if he isn't the poster boy for steroids I don't know what is.

"Non-sense" fact can easily be applied to your assertion that there is no factual evidence he did steroids.

For Christ sakes, the guy probably has salt licks in his living room. I have his rookie card, he looks like the shoe shine boy on the beach, hard to imagine him - or anyone - looking the way he did on the cover of SI.

Love him all you want, but he's got a better chance at winning the lottery than getting into the HOF.
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
1,797
6
0
Fair enough

I didnt know that winning titles was a requirement to be worthy of the hall.

O.K., where do you want to start,larry doby,yea larry who?
Bill MAZEROSKI,138 HOME RUNS AND A 260 LIFE TIME AVERAGE..WOW!!!
How about that barely 50% winning hall picture phill Niekro..I think thats enough..
If Bert Blyleven isn't in the HOF, then it's safe to assume the HOF is more fraternal than anything based on merit.

Sosa has no merit in my opinion. If Brady Anderson gets in the HOF, than Sosa is sure to get in. Not a hell of a lot of difference between the two.

Mazeroski was one of the best defensive players of all time, and certainly the best in his era. Sosa has nothing on his resume to come close to that. He also single-handedly won a title - hit a series ending home run to win a title - never been done before, and hasn't since. Has 8 gold gloves. Drove in more runs than any other infielder in his era.
Baseball analyst Bill James has written that, "Bill Mazeroski's defensive statistics are probably the most impressive of any player at any position"
And Sosa, a proven cheater, and further, a suspected ultimate cheater - in the only thing he did well in his career - hit home runs.

You can't cheat on defense, either you're great, or you're not. Sosa played RF for a reason. As we called it back in the day - the fat kid picking daisies.
 

daddy1

Member
Feb 27, 2004
351
0
16
HOF maybe... but the city of chi-town...ummm

Sammy in chi-town is not beloved at all, the performance he put on at those congressional hearings was it!...the era was, what it was, the steriods era...he won't get in for a long time maybe second ballot... but definately not first..as far as his retirement...:surprised MLB retired Sosa back in 2007, what the HELL is Sammy talking about:ermm:

Anyway our only sure ballot for HOF right now... is Pujols for now!!!
 

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
5,898
550
113
You nailed it. And he is the "cleanest" of the bunch as far as implications go. The only supposed thing that anybody has on him is he refused a drug test from a sportswriter who had falsy gained Sosa's confidence in order to ultimately make Sosa look bad. People will realize that nobody but nobody would have done that test either.


That particular sports writer, Rick Reilly, has no credibility.

He's more of a lousy stand-up comic trying to do sports than an actual reporter.

And what he tried to do to Sosa was catch him off-guard and embarrass him.

The attack was sensationalist and was meant only to make himself look like something he is not-a reporter who dares to ask the tough questions.

He goes after Sosa but teabags Lance Armstrong, one of if not thee biggest sporting frauds in the history of modern day sport.

If you read any of Reillys' his so-called columns during the time when McGuire and Sosa were bombing home runs out of every park you'll see he was slurping them right along with every other sports writer in America.
 

Pana

New member
Feb 12, 2005
174
0
0
Sosa Said to Test Positive in 2003...........

Sammy Sosa, who joined with Mark McGwire in 1998 in a celebrated pursuit of baseball’s single-season home run record, is among the players who tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the drug-testing results from that year.

At a March 2005 hearing called by the House Government Reform Committee, Sammy Sosa denied using performance-enhancing drugs.
The disclosure that Sosa tested positive makes him the latest baseball star of the last two decades to be linked to performance-enhancers, a group that now includes McGwire, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez and Rafael Palmeiro.

Sosa, who is sixth on Major League Baseball’s career home run list and last played in 2007, had long been suspected of using performance-enhancing drugs but until now had never been publicly linked to a positive test.

In a recent interview with ESPN Deportes, Sosa, 40, said he would “calmly wait” for his induction into baseball’s Hall of Fame, for which he will become eligible for induction in 2013. But his 2003 positive test, when he played for the Chicago Cubs, may seriously damage his chances of gaining entry to the Hall, a fate encountered by McGwire, who has attracted relatively little support from voters in his first three years on the ballot.

The 2003 positive test could also create legal troubles for Sosa because he testified under oath before Congress at a public hearing in 2005 that he had “never taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs.”

The 2003 test that ensnared Sosa was the first such test conducted by Major League Baseball. Under guidelines agreed upon with the players union, the test results were to remain anonymous but would lead to testing with penalties the next year if more than 5 percent of the results were positive.

That is indeed what occurred. But for reasons never made completely clear, the test results were not destroyed by the players union and the 104 positives were subsequently seized by federal agents on the West Coast investigating matters related to the distribution of drugs to athletes.

The union immediately filed court papers alleging that the agents had illegally seized the tests, and over the past six years judges at various levels of the federal court system have been weighing whether the government can keep them. An 11-judge panel in California is preparing to rule in the case, but regardless of its verdict, the losing side is expected to appeal to the United States Supreme Court.

As the union feared, the names on the list have begun to emerge. In February, Sports Illustrated reported that Rodriguez was on the 2003 list, and Rodriguez subsequently acknowledged that he had used steroids for three years. Now, Sosa’s name has been disclosed.

The lawyers who had knowledge of Sosa’s inclusion on the 2003 list did not know the substance for which Sosa tested positive. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified as discussing material that is sealed by a court order.

A lawyer for Sosa, Jay Reisinger, declined comment, as did an official with Major League Baseball.

Sosa, who lives in the Dominican Republic, became a national figure with the Cubs in 1998, when he and McGwire, of the St. Louis Cardinals, engaged in a compelling race to overtake Roger Maris’s single-season home run record of 61. McGwire passed Maris first and ended up with 70 home runs. Sosa followed close behind with 66.

The home run race was credited with helping revive interest in baseball after a 232-game strike wiped out the 1994 post-season and the beginning of the 1995 season.

In the seasons that followed, Sosa exceeded 60 home runs on two more occasions. But he was fading as a player when he traveled to Washington in March 2005 to testify with Palmeiro and McGwire and others at a hearing called by the House Government Reform Committee to examine the use of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

At the hearing, Sosa testified that “everything” he had heard “about steroids and human growth hormones is that they are bad for you, even lethal” and that he “would never put anything dangerous like that” in his body.

“To be clear,” he added, “I have never taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs. I have never injected myself or had anyone inject me with anything.”

During that hearing, McGwire, by then retired, repeatedly declined to answer questions about possible drug use, saying he was not there to talk about the past. His statements were widely viewed as an admission of guilt, and since then he has had little involvement with baseball except for privately serving as a hitting tutor for several major leaguers. To win election to the Hall of Fame, a player must be named on 75 percent of the ballots cast; McGwire has yet to be named on 25 percent of them.

At that same hearing, Palmeiro pointed his finger at committee members as he said: “I have never used steroids. Period.” Five months later, he was suspended for 10 games as a result of a positive steroids test.

The committee declined to ask the Justice Department to investigate him for perjury, in part because it felt it could not establish that Palmeiro was lying at the time he testified.

Unlike Palmeiro, Sosa testified after he had tested positive, not before, but it is not clear if the committee will want to pursue the matter.

The committee did refer Clemens to the Justice Department for investigation of perjury after he repeatedly denied using performance-enhancing drugs in a public hearing in 2008, and Clemens’s statements are now being studied by a federal grand jury.

Bonds, who set a single-season home run record of 73 just three years after McGwire hit 70, holds the career mark for home runs, with 762. He is also the target of legal proceedings: he is awaiting trial on charges that he lied to a federal grand jury in December 2003 when he testified that he never knowingly used performance-enhancers.

Like Sosa, Bonds and Clemens last played in 2007 and, at this point, also seem destined to appear on the 2013 Hall of Fame ballot. That fact, in itself, would seem to guarantee that the issue of drug use in baseball is likely to reverberate for years to come.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/sports/baseball/17doping.html
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
1,797
6
0
No way!

Sammy Sosa, who joined with Mark McGwire in 1998 in a celebrated pursuit of baseball?s single-season home run record, is among the players who tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug in 2003, according to lawyers with knowledge of the drug-testing results from that year.
I can't believe it!

I loved the quote that Sammy's going to "calmly wait" for his induction to the HOF.

Better pack a lunch, buddy. In fact, might want to pack a cooler too.
 

BermudaRum

Bronze
Oct 9, 2007
1,225
398
83
Sammy "say it ain't so", will always be in good company with the Barrys, Rodgers, Marks, and Alex's of MLB!
But he'll find out sooner then he thinks, that hell will have to freeze over before he makes MLB Hall of Shame, sorry I mean Fame!;)
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
3,268
98
0
As I said before, 4 years is a looooong time. Its hard to believe that Sammy did not know about those results, and here he is talking about he will calmly wait to get into the HOF. No credibility and dignity if I may say.:ermm:
 
Last edited:

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
3,078
328
0
Why is always Latin Players???? There is an agenda in picking which names comes out of that list.
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
1,797
6
0
No agenda, it's statistics (and perhaps your PR guy)

Why is always Latin Players???? There is an agenda in picking which names comes out of that list.
McGwire is no Latino, neither is Clemens or Brady Anderson. MeRod is debatable, but point being, the Latino's put up big numbers and are, perhaps, more desperate, and therefore more open to suspiscion? Just a thought.

That's pretty sensible. If you're playing the conspiracy theory, I think that falls short here.

I'd love to hear more from the Sosa believers with their heads in the sand. What now? He was framed by Rick Reilly. Is it George W's fault?

Pick a name in the news, and some snooper will find him out. Not that hard in today's information age. Sammy say's he's retiring and waiting for his HOF induction... a reporter/snooper says "oh yeah" ...put this cherry on your Sundae. Rather predictable.

I'd be fine for letting them all into the HOF, make steroids (PED's) legal. That corn field with a barn 'Cooperstown' (sorry Steve) can have any and all they want. It's a fraternity and nothing more. A good fraternity in many ways, but if you're trying to apply statistics - or some quantifiable formula - to who gets in and doesn't, you're only frustrating yourself.

It's a mirage.

I was ready to throw up on the place until Jim Ed Rice got in, now, it's just Bert Blyleven they have to fix. What a joke.

How about Fred McGriff? The guy was solid and didn't have any suspicion whatsoever that he was 'more male' than the rest of us, and he nearly put up 500 HRs. He won't get a sniff of the HOF, and he was legit. He'll be forgotten quicker than Kobe Bryant's 'gooman' in Denver. Christ, they were cheering that guy in Denver just a couple weeks ago and he raped a woman a few miles from the arena just a few years ago.

The generation of the astericks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Berzin

Berzin

Banned
Nov 17, 2004
5,898
550
113
Wow, Cleef. Good post.

OK, the cat is out of the bag. We still do not know what Sosa tested positive for, though I guess in the court of public opinion it won't matter.

At this point it would only be fair to release the names of all the players on that list. For names to be released like this one at a time points to something very sinister and biased. Not towards latin players in particular(though I can see why many would think this), but just to certain players. The timing just seems to be a bit too convenient.

I made my thoughts quite clear on this issue that despite the steroids, fans, owners and sportswriters all unquestioningly went along for the ride during this particular era. Everyone loved it, everyone got paid and everyone looked away. There are no angels here.

But we are going to have to come to grips with the fact that, natural talent or no, quite a large number of the athletes in professional sports and the Olympics take performance enhancing drugs.

And stricter testing will not change this one iota. The cheaters will always be ahead of the game.
 

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
3,078
328
0
Arod, Manny, Sosa, Palmeiro, Romero, Tejada, and a bunchload of kids in the minors which are latins (more likely Dominicans).

I mean do I have to believe that the vast majority of the players that were using steroids at that time are latins?? Look you could only mention 3 players of which only 2 are a sure bet, Brady Anderson sure hit 50 HR in one season but you can't accuse him of anything..yet. Add Giambi to the list and you only have 4, meanwhile the list of latin players are going through the roof.

One way to solve this mess is to put out that list of 104 players which the MLBPA irresponsibly didn't destroy to then hand it out to the FBI, you leak 2 names you leak all of them. That's how it should be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Berzin

Mr. Lu

Bronze
Mar 26, 2007
1,091
88
0
Hold it.........

Anyway our only sure ballot for HOF right now... is Pujols for now!!!

Raise an eyebrow when you look at Pujols. He ain't been caught, yet. He's been unreal. Hasn't had any major injuries and plays at a different level. He could have the talent, but no player is clean. NO PLAYER. A year ago, I hated Alex Rodriguez, but would have defended him as the greatest player of his generation and one of the few who didn't take PEDs. Today, the only athletes I trust are football players. Why? Because football players are honest about their juice.

Pujols is guilty, until proven innocent.




Mr. Lu
 

jaguarbob

Bronze
Mar 2, 2004
1,427
60
48
Raise an eyebrow when you look at Pujols. He ain't been caught, yet. He's been unreal. Hasn't had any major injuries and plays at a different level. He could have the talent, but no player is clean. NO PLAYER. A year ago, I hated Alex Rodriguez, but would have defended him as the greatest player of his generation and one of the few who didn't take PEDs. Today, the only athletes I trust are football players. Why? Because football players are honest about their juice.

Pujols is guilty, until proven innocent.




Mr. Lu
and just look at arods stats this year,very very pedestrian...batting around 230,just 5 or 6 homeruns,a few errors at third,has a hard time throwing to first.....and he only took them till 2003....sure....
bob
 

rsg

Bronze
Oct 21, 2008
787
219
0
and just look at arods stats this year,very very pedestrian...batting around 230,just 5 or 6 homeruns,a few errors at third,has a hard time throwing to first.....and he only took them till 2003....sure....
bob
Pease dont forget A Rod is still recovering from a serious injury.Hiting a fastball is one of the most dificult things to do in sports, so how can steroids help you do that? Sure they make you stronger, but you still need a great amount of ability and talent to play at that level.
Lets face the facts, EVERYONE WAS ON STEROIDS BEFORE