Tainos in the DR?

[AlterEgo]

Wondering by the way, somebody thats mixed (or that has mixed parents), would it get more than 1 result? For example if somebody is mixed taino/african would both parts show up? Or does it keep following the mothersside way back so it ends up 'pure'.

It's a direct line, meaning the original grandmother 40,000 yrs ago might have come from deepest darkest Africa and the woman today might be a blue eyed blonde from Norway. If you watch the Today Show, you might have seen that Matt Lauer found out his paternal ancestry is from Africa.

 

[Princesa777]

Yeah I understand, but what I mean is if for example you have a dominican wh has some taino blood from 500 years ago, mixed with african blood. Would the test result show both or one of the two depending if it was the mom or the dad that brought in the taino/african blood?

 

[Princesa777]

Im assuming here that taino's will have different roots then people with african descent even 40,000 years back.

 

[AlterEgo]

Im assuming here that taino's will have different roots then people with african descent even 40,000 years back.

Well, it is said that all of us came out of Africa originally. But our ancestors took different routes and settled around the world. Today those groups are segregated by what are called Haplogroups. Haplogroup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Your haplogroup reveals where your deep ancestry was. Then you have markers within the haplogroup that further define you. [the testing company also compares the results with others and gives you a 'match' to determine possible family members going back up to 500+ years] My maternal line is a U5a haplogroup - all U came from Western Asia, and it is believed they were the first European settlers, they followed the receding ice sheet north. We even have a famous U person who is called the Cheddar Man: Cheddar Man - Familypedia

I would guess that most Indians would come back as an Asian deep ancestry. If the maternal line goes back to a Taino, that is what the result will be, regardless of whether she or any of her descendants mated with an African or a European. Her DNA will remain mostly unchanged for hundreds of generations, unless there has been a mutation [which just further segregates her descendants from others of her haplogroup - wouldn't change her Taino/indian ancestry marker]

AE

 

[Chip]

Not saying there is no taino blood in dominicans, just that looking native is not the same as being (some part) native.
It would be really interesting to find out more about this though. Isnt national geographic doing a big research about this now (worldwide), where your ancestors (waaaaay back come from), you can get tested both from father as mother side. So people who suspect they have some taino blood, get urself tested

This has already been discussed on this thread. BTW, there is no longer doubt that many, many Dominicans have significant Taino gentic heritage.

In fact it is highly likely that many current day Domnicans are well over 50% Taino based on their genetic makeup.

 

[Shiraz72]

Mitochondrial DNA

I can confirm there was some Taino renmants in dominican dna. Only on the Mtdna though, on the female side. But it isn't too high. Although some small test have suggest mild percetages the whole country would be lower. Why, because Tainos arent the only ones with Epicathic eye fold and high cheek bones. La Republica Dominicana has a small Taino Component mixed with a large african one and an european one thats near the same % as the african, abit less. From highest to lowest i'd say the whole of d.r is African, European(Iberian), Taino. The african is obviously the highest component. If d.r had higher European and Taino components it would look more like the whole of puerto rico.

One thing not mentioned is that alot of the african brought to the dominican republic came from areas were they posses similar features to Tainos, as far as the eyes and cheekbones. D.R had a huge importation of Congo/Angolan/Zaire, this reflects in our language, we have plenty of kongo words, Mofongo, Mondongo, Kamumbo, Kimbamba, Bembe, Toto. We also have some Nigerian blood as well, if u look up pictures of angolans and congolese u will see alot with high cheekbones and almod or slanted eyes. Which they got from some of their ancestors called the Kohisan people of South Africa.
So a combination of a good amount of africans with high cheekbones and slanted eyes, (not as much as tainos but close) with a small taino percentage can make a person look more taino then he is genetically. So observation is not good enough in d.r to asses the Taino component.

Look at this guy, he's Angolan.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200604/r82286_239094.jpg

This is a Kohisan.
Sa-breeders.co.za - Breeder Resources and Information.

This is a nigerian.
http://www.nathanielturner.com/images/New_Folder3/bisiadjapon2.jpg

So as you can see they have eyes very close to Tainos, if anythign Kohisan have even more slanted eyes then Tainos. Of course i'm not denying the Taino precense in d.r, but alot of people on this thread are exagerating it. And that comment about few africans brought to d.r, thats obviously not true. You can't rely on statistics because a very large amount of africans brought to d.r during slavery came illegaly! they werent recorded in the Statistic books, alot of them were smuggled in from Curacao (The Dutch).
A great example of an African and a white mixture that looks like it has taino or native american is Barrack Obama. LOL.
http://static.flickr.com/45/141893018_b0030cbf63_m.jpg
He looks like alot of dominicans, hell he looks like my grandfather.
Yet his mother is a full blooded white american woman, and his father is a full blooded kenyan man.

I'm a genealogical researcher working for Indian Affairs in Canada and we recently had a conference with Orchid Cellmark Labs to discuss the use of DNA evidence to establish tribal heritage for persons applying for their Indian status etc...and we discussed the use of mitochondrial DNA in cases where no patrilineal evidence is available. This is due to the male based system in place with the Indian Act. Some of the tribes in the US have been using DNA testing for years now to prove tribal alliances however it is not possible to use this test to establish the percdentage of Indian blood one has. This must been done through family pedigree etc...in other words there is no accurate test to establish whether or not someone has Indian DNA but you compare DNA samples in living individuals to that of tribal members to determine of there is a relationship similiar to the way a paternity test works or a sibling test. It`s complicated however, as you first have to set up a large enough group of tribal members to establish a pool of samples to be able to make a comparison. I'm curious if you could share some of your sources of information. Our department is currenltly in the process of negotiating legislative amendments to the Indian Act and DNA evidence is a hotly debated topic within the organization. I would very much appreciate it if you would be wiling to share some of your sources of info or links so I may research the Taino history as I find it very interesting. Thank you.

 

[Princesa777]

This has already been discussed on this thread. BTW, there is no longer doubt that many, many Dominicans have significant Taino gentic heritage.

In fact it is highly likely that many current day Domnicans are well over 50% Taino based on their genetic makeup.

Im sure you can understand I didnt read all the pages on this forum, Im just responding to the last ones

I never doubted there would be taino blood in Dominicans, even if its true that taino's died out within 30 years...do you know how many mixed children can be born in 30 years? Although I do think 50% is kind of high, but like I said im not an expert on taino history and less on their genetic heritage...

But I do think looks dont say much in that matter.

 

[donP]

Sent From Las Galeras

im not an expert on taino history_

Jean Michel Montespan is...

La Rep?blica - Incautan pieza ta?na de medio mill?n de euros

donP

 

[bachata]

I'm a genealogical researcher working for Indian Affairs in Canada and we recently had a conference with Orchid Cellmark Labs to discuss the use of DNA evidence to establish tribal heritage for persons applying for their Indian status etc...

I would like to discuss this thread in a Dominican colmado with my friends drinking frias....
Hay mi madre cuantos borrachos hablando baba...

JJ

 

[Chip]

I would like to discuss this thread in a Dominican colmado with my friends drinking frias....
Hay mi madre cuantos borrachos hablando baba...

JJ

?????????

Me imagino que usted no cree en la ciencia?

 

[bachata]

?????????

Me imagino que usted no cree en la ciencia?

Claro que si Chip, pero es que la ciencia tiene limites, como todo en la vida. Ademas si vamos al caso aun los cientificos no han podido dar con la cura de muchas enferdades, por esta razon no debemos poner toda nuestra esperanza y fe en la ciencia sino que debemos mantener algo de espiritual.
Cuando yo era aun muy joven preferia regirme por el metodo cientifico pero nunca me dio resultado pues siempre andube buscando algo mas, algo que nunca encontraria y que me mantenia viviendo una vida atormentada ya que siempre andaba como decia mi amigo el boricua; Buscandole la quinta pata al gato.
Yo soy taino porque soy descendiente de Europeos y de Indios Tainos y punto. Para que me voy a atormentar de nuevo tratando de averiguar quien fue primero si la gallina o el huevo.

JJ

 

[Shiraz72]

Roots

Claro que si Chip, pero es que la ciencia tiene limites, como todo en la vida. Ademas si vamos al caso aun los cientificos no han podido dar con la cura de muchas enferdades, por esta razon no debemos poner toda nuestra esperanza y fe en la ciencia sino que debemos mantener algo de espiritual.
Cuando yo era aun muy joven preferia regirme por el metodo cientifico pero nunca me dio resultado pues siempre andube buscando algo mas, algo que nunca encontraria y que me mantenia viviendo una vida atormentada ya que siempre andaba como decia mi amigo el boricua; Buscandole la quinta pata al gato.
Yo soy taino porque soy descendiente de Europeos y de Indios Tainos y punto. Para que me voy a atormentar de nuevo tratando de averiguar quien fue primero si la gallina o el huevo.

JJ

This is the delema of a lot of the tribes in the Southwestern US who know they are descendants of the Anasazi tribe through their spiritual beliefs and culture passed down from the elders for generations. There are of course no living decendants for which scientists to base their studies but the people remember through their folk lore and oral tradition of story telling. Unfortunately the government continues to descrate their burial sites in the name of science to study their "culture".

 

[Chip]

Claro que si Chip, pero es que la ciencia tiene limites, como todo en la vida. Ademas si vamos al caso aun los cientificos no han podido dar con la cura de muchas enferdades, por esta razon no debemos poner toda nuestra esperanza y fe en la ciencia sino que debemos mantener algo de espiritual.
Cuando yo era aun muy joven preferia regirme por el metodo cientifico pero nunca me dio resultado pues siempre andube buscando algo mas, algo que nunca encontraria y que me mantenia viviendo una vida atormentada ya que siempre andaba como decia mi amigo el boricua; Buscandole la quinta pata al gato.
Yo soy taino porque soy descendiente de Europeos y de Indios Tainos y punto. Para que me voy a atormentar de nuevo tratando de averiguar quien fue primero si la gallina o el huevo.

JJ

If you have read any of my posts you would know that I'm an ardent Catholic and would never say science is more important than faith. That being said, science is a great gift and tool and has brought many advances to man.

I'm glad you recognize your Taino heritage, however, being Dominican you too should know that for the majority of Dominicans their understanding and acceptance of the true Taino history is very limited. Also, remember too up until very recently there was very little scientific evidence to support claims that the Tainos weren't vanquished in the first 50 years after Colombus. In fact it seems we are learning more and more everyday that the Tainos may have lasted as communities until the 1800's. I received an email for Jorge on this topic and hopefully he'll post within the next months when the study is published on the Taino artifacts I mentioned a few posts ago.

 

[? bient?t]

Science is bunk. And whatever they call 'gravity' is BS. What gravity?! It should be called Intelligent Falling (IF) - the hand of god pushing objects down to the ground.

I'm one brave mother-sticker! Atheists are gonna jump all over me now. But I have faith.

 

[reilleyp]

Taino Indian stone or just a green rock?

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2900452033420.148819.1323998797&type=1&l=1626d2a349

click url above to see the picture

Taino Indian stone or just a green triangle rock?? Found stuck in coral on beach.

 

[bachata]

Let me try to find my Cedula I think I'm Taino!!!

JJ

 

[Gurabo444]

Hi

Hi, the taino ancestry in DR is very well alive most Dominicans have a small yet significant percentage of Taino ancestry. There's a DNA company called 23andme, in which you can test Y-DNA (paternal lineage), mtDNA (maternal lineage), and also your autosomal DNA (whole DNA), the company brakes down your ancestry in three categories Europe, (all Caucasoid people), Asia (all mongoloid people), and Africa (sub-Sahara African). Anyways, me and another Dominican are sharing with information with most of the Dominicans who have taken this test since there's a feature in the site where you can share genome with other people, and distan relatives. So we have gathered the results of nearly all the Domincians who have gotten tested so far since, there has been very few genetic studies done on the Dominican republic, by gathering these results we hope to better understand the racial composition of most Dominicans.

Here's the Autosomal (whole DNA) sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CL2T54EF&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdHB4a2FZYXRxZnh0UzRfbzlTV2lXSWc&hl=en_US&authkey=CL2T54EF#gid=0

The Y-DNA sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CKr55dQK&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdFNrSklZZVRfcE0tMDZkUnFTV1YxT3c&hl=en_US&authkey=CKr55dQK#gid=1

The mtdna sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CKr55dQK&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdFNrSklZZVRfcE0tMDZkUnFTV1YxT3c&hl=en_US&authkey=CKr55dQK#gid=0

 

[Gurabo444]

Contrary to popular belief, Taino ancestry is well alive in Dominicans, genetic tests have confirm that Amerindian ancestry is a small yet significant part of the Dominican population. there's a genetic company called 23andme, which tests for Y-DNA( paternal lineage, mtDNA (maternal lineage), and Autosomal DNA (your whole DNA) which the company brakes down into three cathegories, Europe (all Caucasoids), Asia (all mongoloids, in the case of Dominicans taino shows up as Asian), and African (All sub Sahara Africans). Many Dominicans have gotten tested with this company, so me, and another Dominican have gathered the genetic results of nearly all the Dominicans tested so far, since the company's site lets you share with other people, and distant relatives. We have created spread sheets with the results, we have gathered, since very few DNA studies have been done in Dominican republic, we hope that these results will allow us to better understand the racial composition of Dominicans. So i thought I would post the results we have gotten so far to contribute with the purpose of the thread.

Thsis is the Autosomal DNA spread sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CL2T54EF&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdHB4a2FZYXRxZnh0UzRfbzlTV2lXSWc&hl=en_US&authkey=CL2T54EF#gid=0 We wrote down next to the results from which province that particular person is from in DR, if known.

This is the Y-DNA spread sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CKr55dQK&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdFNrSklZZVRfcE0tMDZkUnFTV1YxT3c&hl=en_US&authkey=CKr55dQK#gid=1

This is the mtDNA spread sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?authkey=CKr55dQK&key=0At1sp4m_NTCLdFNrSklZZVRfcE0tMDZkUnFTV1YxT3c&hl=en_US&authkey=CKr55dQK#gid=0

Note that both Y-DNA, and MtDNA are a small part of a person DNA, but they can give us an idea of the founding population of Dominican Republic.

 

[Gurabo444]

Here are my dad's genetic results, his indigenous ancestry is small, but is there, and is significant. So probably every single Dominican has some Taino (indigenous ancestry)

Ancestry painting, or Autosomal results

Paternal line, or Y-DNA.

Maternal line, or mtDNA.

If you guys read the description in that picture, you'll notice that his maternal line is Taino.

 

[Criss Colon]

We all came from Africa,just some of us "sooner" than others!
I think you are mis-interpreting the results.
But if you want to be "Taino",why not!
CC