The Conflict Between Haiti and the Dominican Republic:

[pedrochemical]

Firstly, history is not about fact.
It is about historians' perceptions of events.

Secondly, does it not seem silly to try and identify the bad guys as the group who merely committed the most recent atrocity or as the group that killed a few more tens of thousands than the other lot?

It looks like fleas arguing about who owns the dog!


When people write about Haiti they are not writing about Haitians.
When they write about the Dominican Republic they are not writing about Dominicans.

To illustrate, it is true that Haiti has received billions in aid over the years. It is not true that Haitians have received billions in aid over the years.

When people talk about tension between the D.R. and Haiti, whatever they are talking about does not refer to tensions between Dominicans and Haitians.
Sure they exist but no entity is going to massacre the other any time soon.

Whatever was the case in previous generations, I have seen real history taking place this year.
I was involved in a very minor way in the disaster - for many on both sides of the border it has been a tough year because of it.
What I witnessed was both on a national level and a personal level both the Dominican Republic and Dominican people were the nation that was really 'there' for Haiti and Haitians. And not just because they are literally 'there'.

For example, one of the greatest threats to the economy, progress and stability of this nation is the problem of illegal Haitian immigration. This was put asside to allow people to travel freely across the border for a time.
That was stunning.
Even more stunning is the acceptance, help, sympathy and humanity shown to many victims of the quake - I have first hand experience of this.


I agree with NALS. (Not a typo)

The Dominican Republic is by far Haiti's greatest ally.
And Haitians know this.

And as I said, whatever historical perspective people have about the rivalry between the two nations, what I have seen with my own eyes this year is that there exists an incredibly strong bond.


That kind of a thing is something that I want my daughter to be a part of.
Makes me wonder if we should not stay another few years?

 

[bachata]

Benito Juarez, Mexico liberator said this phrase: El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz...
My point is; If the Haitians stay quite in their side of the island and doesn't come to bring all the illness and misery to the Dominican side there will be no conflict.

Muerto el perro se acabo la rabia!!!

JJ

 

[mountainannie]

Firstly, history is not about fact.
It is about historians' perceptions of events.

Secondly, does it not seem silly to try and identify the bad guys as the group who merely committed the most recent atrocity or as the group that killed a few more tens of thousands than the other lot?

It looks like fleas arguing about who owns the dog!


When people write about Haiti they are not writing about Haitians.
When they write about the Dominican Republic they are not writing about Dominicans.

To illustrate, it is true that Haiti has received billions in aid over the years. It is not true that Haitians have received billions in aid over the years.

When people talk about tension between the D.R. and Haiti, whatever they are talking about does not refer to tensions between Dominicans and Haitians.
Sure they exist but no entity is going to massacre the other any time soon.

Whatever was the case in previous generations, I have seen real history taking place this year.
I was involved in a very minor way in the disaster - for many on both sides of the border it has been a tough year because of it.
What I witnessed was both on a national level and a personal level both the Dominican Republic and Dominican people were the nation that was really 'there' for Haiti and Haitians. And not just because they are literally 'there'.

For example, one of the greatest threats to the economy, progress and stability of this nation is the problem of illegal Haitian immigration. This was put asside to allow people to travel freely across the border for a time.
That was stunning.
Even more stunning is the acceptance, help, sympathy and humanity shown to many victims of the quake - I have first hand experience of this.


I agree with NALS. (Not a typo)

The Dominican Republic is by far Haiti's greatest ally.
And Haitians know this.

And as I said, whatever historical perspective people have about the rivalry between the two nations, what I have seen with my own eyes this year is that there exists an incredibly strong bond.


That kind of a thing is something that I want my daughter to be a part of.
Makes me wonder if we should not stay another few years?

Where are you thinking of going? I mean// off island? Why would even consider leaving?

Thanks for this post.... you are the one person here on DR1 who really knows what is going on in Haiti and your perceptions are very valuable.

keep us posted

thanks

 

[engineerfg]

1. The Island was called Kiskeya "Which we say Quisqueya".
2. Ayiti "Haiti" was simply the mountaines terrain to the western side of the Island not the whole Island.
3. The term Taino means Noble or Good.
4. In 1821, DR declared it's first inpendence, but Haiti invaded with the help of the French to control the Island and Dominicans fought till 1844 against Haitian control.
5. When the Haitians began their force march to kill all Dominicans and fully control the Island the established Trinitarios rallied the Dominican people to rise up and defend their lands. The Haitian forces were defeated and at the door of El Conde the first Dominican Flag was raised and we as a people united declared our second independence.
6. Santana became the first President who declared the Trinitarios enemies of the states, he wanted to return to Spanish rule.
7. In 1856 when Sanchez was preparing to regain control of DR he was betrayed once more by Haiti, who stated they felt bad about how things ended in DR and wanted to help us establish our independence. Haiti betrayed Sanchez to Santana, trying to get him to surrender DR to Haitian rule. In 1863 we established our restoration, breaking the shackles of Spanish, Haitian, or Santana control thou declaring "Dios, Patria, y Libertad".

I can take each bullet point and expanded and I can continue the full history, but I think my points are proven, but just in case

The issue with Haiti goes further back then 1937, and Trujillo killing 25,000 Haitians doesn't even come close to how many Dominicans Haitians killed over the course of 1821 - 1863, or the fact that Haitians declared Dominicans worst then slaves, and should be treated like animals during their rule. Trujillo had become tired of the constant invasion of Haiti into Dominican Territory attempting to conquer the DR. In 1938 Trujillo declared war on Haiti, killed 25,000 Haitians and establish the current border. When questioned by US journalist about the war and the killing of so many Haitians his response was very clear "Not even half of the Chicanos that you kill on the border between the USA and Mexico."

So my question to all you Americans your so quick to rally to Haiti's defense, where was the USA when the Dominicans needed them?

Oh yes you invaded us attempting to control the island, you constantly attempted to subjected us to Haitian rule and your current President has on more then one occasion attempted to discuss merging with Haiti to help the Haitians and that we should give citizenship to those 2 million illegal Haitians on our land. Hmmmm, the answer is NO, no to merger, no to citizenship to Haitians, when the USA gives citizenship to all the illegal immigrants then come talk to us Obama. Our constitution is clear, we are not the USA, and your laws don't apply to us in our country.

the french helped the haitians with their invasion? i thought the french were out by then?

 

[mountainannie]

the french helped the haitians with their invasion? i thought the french were out by then?

here, let me google that for you

History of Haiti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pedrochemical]

Miacol,

If that was all taken from memory then you must be over 200 years old.

No wonder you are a little confused about the nature of proof.

 

[engineerfg]

here, let me google that for you

History of Haiti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks Mountainnie, I didn't realize Google existed.

Also, the link you provided doesn't 'confirm' this claim by Miacol:

4. In 1821, DR declared it's first inpendence, but Haiti invaded with the help of the French to control the Island and Dominicans fought till 1844 against Haitian control.

 

[Miacol]

"So my question to all you Americans your so quick to rally to Haiti's defense, where was the USA when the Dominicans needed them?"

Damm, sorry to not have been able to run right down and solve your problem, but a couple of guys named Hirohito and Hitler were keeping the US and a good part of the world kind of busy for a while at the end of the 30's

Yeah, I know the USA didn't "officially" enter WWII as a combatant until 1941, but ramping up for the war was kind of time consuming and the US was not doing it's usual interventions in other countries business

Didn't stop America from invading DR during WWI which help usher in Trujillo.

 

[IslandDreaming]

Didn't stop America from invading DR during WWI which help usher in Trujillo.

I suppose you could find a few other things the evil US has done also.

If "most" Dominicans had your attitude the Country would be left alone as uninhabitable, what is your problem?

 

[engineerfg]

Hey if it makes you feel any better, the Americans are not rushing to the aid of Haitians for altruistic reasons -> it's just business. Lots of contracts to be had for rebuilding and privatization of infrastructure.

 

[pedrochemical]

I do not see that the US is rushing at all in Haiti.
The 1+ Billion dollars they voted through has not made it to Haiti yet - in fact I am not sure if it has actually been voted though completely.

But do not get mad with the US - I do not see anyone else rushing to help for that matter. And why should they? Where does it say that the US are responsible for cleaning up this mess. Where does it say that if they have the good grace to get involved that they should not make some of the profits?
It sucks, but it makes global economic sense in the early 21st century.

Talking to some US army dudes at the airport last week, they tell me that their corps of engineers has no plans to do anything here. They say the marines are not coming back any time soon.

But yes, it is a sound business decision - and I do not criticise them for that.
After all, if things do not get better soon then the US may have to deal with these same Haitians arriving illegally in the US.
They are not likely to head for Venezuela, Canada, China, Brazil or France.
Just the US and the D.R. and Bahamas.

 

[Chip]

Hey if it makes you feel any better, the Americans are not rushing to the aid of Haitians for altruistic reasons -> it's just business. Lots of contracts to be had for rebuilding and privatization of infrastructure.

Yeah, imagine the margins. Junior, Haiti ain't the US where you can levy taxes or lien and expect people to pay. Even infrastructure projects in the DR have problems recouping their investment, ie Metro and electricity.

 

[Miacol]

Just to show you how you simple little fact have been changes in your Dominican history without going into too much, the island was in fact called Quisqueya but this is just but the partial name ,the island was called by the Arawaks by the way, Ayiti Quisqueya Boyo, Land of mountains, land of rivers,land of valleys in their language, after the Haitian revolution the freed slaves gave it back part of its original name as opposed to keeping the French given name of St Domingue, as far as the Haitian mistreatment of the Dominicans this is grossly exaggerated by the Dominicans
This first independence you speak of is from Spain not Haiti, witch by the way also fought with you to help you get rid of Spanish colonial rule, just as they did with Simon Bol?var, HAITI did send 30,000 troops to south America as well as weapons and ammunitions, the house Bol?var stayed in whilst in Haiti asking for help to Alexandre Petion still exists in Jacmel.
Your facts are twisted.

Hay bigboy21, you must be American, like I have said a million times, the Tainos called the Island Kiskeya (Taino spelling in DR we say Quisqueya), the mountains to the East were called Ayiti, Boyo was called the valleys to the south. As for 1821, yes it was against Spain, never said it wasn't but the Haitians quickly invaded to claim the island. As for the mistreatment, it is well documented the behavior of the Haitians. So I have to ask you a question, obviously your not Dominican, either Haitian or American, why would you come onto a DR site and attack Dominicans and attempt to re-write history?

 

[Chirimoya]

Yes, the Tainos were known for their spelling

 

[jrhartley]

oh purleese cant we get along......its only a little line in the dirt that seperates countries

 

[DOMINICANUSA]

BIGBOY needs to dedicate some time to looking into the real history based on factual events and stop with the usual injecting of US influenced racialism.

While you're at it, do a compare and contrast on which side teaches real history and which side glosses over certain events.

 

[BIGBOY21]

BIGBOY needs to dedicate some time to looking into the real history based on factual events and stop with the usual injecting of US influenced racialism.

While you're at it, do a compare and contrast on which side teaches real history and which side glosses over certain events.

Of course... your version is the right one and every one else is conspiring against the Dominicans.

Give me a break!

 

[NALs]

its only a little line in the dirt that seperates countries

This is one heck of a little line:

:cheeky:

Then there's the language, time, and overall customs change. What a line, eh?

 

[BIGBOY21]

This is one heck of a little line:

:cheeky:

Then there's the language, time, and overall customs change. What a line, eh?

Is this your solution, build a wall?? how nice!!

 

[Ezequiel]

Is this your solution, build a wall?? how nice!!

It's not a bad idea