The Light at the End of the Tunnel?

Kipling333

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Jan 12, 2010
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I did not know that, but I'm not surprised. 

That was a story of about 15 or 20 years ago printed by a few USA papers ,probably to discredit China...In western Africa ,these days, the majority of workers on major projects are Africans . However for those who believe that old story, how lucky was the DR in not having China as the major civil engineering contractor here ..
 

KyleMackey

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Apr 20, 2015
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Well, its not everyday that news about Haiti put a smile on my face, but I'm perfectly aware something might happen to dampen that a little (or a lot.) Fingers crossed it doesn't!

China is going to invest some US$30 billion in infrastructure in Haiti. This seems serious. Its definitely what they need (if the politicians can keep their hands out of the cookie jar, again fingers crossed.)

Improvements in infrastructure will have a tremendous impact on the economic development over the long term. That means jobs, lots and lots of jobs; not to mention new business opportunities.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/china-extends-her-silk-road-to-haiti_us_5984927ae4b0bd8232029723

It wont change anything. Just more corruption.
 

RDKNIGHT

Bronze
Mar 13, 2017
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China just needs another country to pedel its cancers cause toy products to kids with less restrictions
 

Cdn_Gringo

Gold
Apr 29, 2014
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Can't blame China for selling what the people choose to buy. The consumer is not blameless here. They create the demand by buying the crap. To some buying 4 pairs of $25 sneakers rather than 1 pair of quality sneakers makes sense.
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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That was a story of about 15 or 20 years ago printed by a few USA papers ,probably to discredit China...In western Africa ,these days, the majority of workers on major projects are Africans . However for those who believe that old story, how lucky was the DR in not having China as the major civil engineering contractor here ..


It's an old story which still holds truth. The recently completed (6/2017) Mataraka Express standard gauge railway between Nairobi and Mombasa was 100% Chinese built. Chinese laborers penned up in compounds which looked a lot like prison camps built the berms, laid the tracks and performed all the manual labor involved with the project. Now that the line is up and running those laborers have been reassigned to the completion of the new super highway between Nairobi and Mombasa (phase 1) which will extend to Kisumu (phase 2) and eventually end at Luanda, Angola creating the 1st Trans African superhighway system connecting ports on the Atlantic and Indian oceans.

The Chinese and Indians have brokered 50 year contracts in Kenya and Ethiopia for agricultural trade and are building the logistical means to support that trade as they go. As far as the benefit to Kenyan businesses goes, Mombasa Concrete trucks are flying up and down the Malindi Road from dusk to dawn to supply these projects with huge dump trucks which are being filled by groups of 2 dozen Kenyan laborers with shovels surrounding those trucks because it's cheaper to pay them than to invest in front loaders.

The Mataraka SGR has cut the trip between Nairobi and Mombasa from 7 hours to 3. The trains are staffed by Kenyans, Kenyan engineers have been trained to operate and maintain all components and the properties are secured by Kenyan security personnel. This is the kind of thing which can be expected as China invests in Haiti and just as many highly educated Kenyans are returning home to join a growing middle class of skilled workers, Haiti can look forward to a similar future. As Haiti approaches economic viability the Dominican Republic will prosper from business with its closest neighbor and the future can finally replace the past. This is not an overnight process but the most important thing that China has shared with its partners in the developing world is a sense of long term strategy. This, coming from a civilization that is 6,000 years old is exceptionally valuable.
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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It's an old story which still holds truth. The recently completed (6/2017) Mataraka Express standard gauge railway between Nairobi and Mombasa was 100% Chinese built. Chinese laborers penned up in compounds which looked a lot like prison camps built the berms, laid the tracks and performed all the manual labor involved with the project. Now that the line is up and running those laborers have been reassigned to the completion of the new super highway between Nairobi and Mombasa (phase 1) which will extend to Kisumu (phase 2) and eventually end at Luanda, Angola creating the 1st Trans African superhighway system connecting ports on the Atlantic and Indian oceans.

The Chinese and Indians have brokered 50 year contracts in Kenya and Ethiopia for agricultural trade and are building the logistical means to support that trade as they go. As far as the benefit to Kenyan businesses goes, Mombasa Concrete trucks are flying up and down the Malindi Road from dusk to dawn to supply these projects with huge dump trucks which are being filled by groups of 2 dozen Kenyan laborers with shovels surrounding those trucks because it's cheaper to pay them than to invest in front loaders.

The Mataraka SGR has cut the trip between Nairobi and Mombasa from 7 hours to 3. The trains are staffed by Kenyans, Kenyan engineers have been trained to operate and maintain all components and the properties are secured by Kenyan security personnel. This is the kind of thing which can be expected as China invests in Haiti and just as many highly educated Kenyans are returning home to join a growing middle class of skilled workers, Haiti can look forward to a similar future. As Haiti approaches economic viability the Dominican Republic will prosper from business with its closest neighbor and the future can finally replace the past. This is not an overnight process but the most important thing that China has shared with its partners in the developing world is a sense of long term strategy. This, coming from a civilization that is 6,000 years old is exceptionally valuable.

it is not exactly an ideal set of circumstances, but it offers far more than there is today. just the idea of a modern highway, or possible railroad, offers scope for exponential betterment of what is there today-.
 
Apr 7, 2014
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This is what the Chinese do and the Indians are right behind them. These infrastructure projects are necessary to the logistics of getting Haiti up and running as a virtual bread basket for these countries into the rest of this century. Haiti was once the Pearl of the Caribbean based upon it's agricultural production and will be again. Investment in modern farming methods will follow infrastructure improvements as China looks to feed its population of just under 1.4 billion into the rest of this century. China has made such investments in other countries with nothing more to offer than cheap labor and fertile land and the beneficial effects have been mutual. I have seen the projects that China has built in return for long term contracts on minerals and agricultural products in other countries have immediate impact on their fortunes and potential and I'm sure that they will in the case of Haiti. I'm also sure that their investments in Haiti will benefit their neighbors in the region as they look to nearby suppliers for provisions, concrete and other materials. It is very true that the Chinese use their own prison labor for their projects but the local benefits will come as local vendors will be providing essential goods and services. The Chinese project managers, engineers and other professionals who move to Haiti with their families in support of these efforts will become the market for a wide array of services in a country badly in need of service sector opportunity.

Now why this type of effort wasn't undertaken by the USA which certainly has had the means to enter this type of alliance and end the "Aid Era" in favor of an Era of Self Reliance and Partnership will remain shrouded in mystery.
Its not a mystery.....come on man...you know why....you know why...Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders at San Juan Hill and then....John Wayne....yea man, you know why...

Sent from my Z833 using Tapatalk
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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Its not a mystery.....come on man...you know why....you know why...Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders at San Juan Hill and then....John Wayne....yea man, you know why...

Sent from my Z833 using Tapatalk


No. It is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. The one thing that always overrides bigotry is greed, in fact bigotry is nothing more than a byproduct of greed as it is used to divide the victims of the greedy and keep them so busy fighting one another that they won't notice their own pockets being picked. The growing super powers, China and India are growing rapidly because they are using long term constructive partnering whereas the quickly declining super powers USA and UK insist on coming in as conquerors. History shows us that greed beats fear every time. What was that Hyman Roth quote in The Godfather? "I outlasted all of them because I always made money for my partners".

When you trade on fear you have nothing when that fear fades away. The USA hasn't won a war since WWII and Russia really won that one, we just were lucky to be on the same side. We've had troops in SouthWest Asia for 15 years now and what have we gained for our efforts? Meanwhile China and India are at war with no one, they're just silently improving their economic position in the global economy while our "leadership" spars with the poorest countries on the planet trying to get our "tough guy" rep back in vain while China acts like the adult in the room and steps up, admonishing us that any stupid move against their ally will have real consequences quietly but firmly and no one on the planet doubts that they have the means to back it up.

It was a very intelligent choice to use Haiti as the centerpiece for the establishment of their economic conquest of the Western Hemisphere. The country has been abused and had its development interfered with ever since it gained independence from the colonial invaders centuries ago and if they can build a success out of one of the most hopeless nations on Earth it won't be long before the rest of the Caribbean, Central and South America climb aboard the economic success express. Next stop, Cuba!
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Given that Trump is at the head of the USA, and knowing how he likes to be the best and number one at everything and now wants to impose that on the USA, perhaps Haitian diplomats can have a meeting with him. In that meeting they should, indirectly of course, make Trump aware of the great plan that China has for Haiti, the implications this will have in the overall power of China right in the USA's backyard, and how weak and bad the USA will look when China accomplishes in a few decades what the USA hasn't accomplished with Haiti in over a century.

Maybe, if they know how to stroke Trump's ego and patriotism just right, he might counter the Chinese proposal with a new American plan that, again knowing Trump, could be $60 billion. You know, to keep the USA in the number one, the best, the most amazing position (per Trump.)

Then, given the EU's envy of the power of the USA (which is the main reason the EU even exists, lets not kid ourselves), Haitian diplomats can go over there and do the same. Hopefully the EU will unleash their own multibillion dollar; excuse me, I meant multibillion euro lol; proposal for Haiti too.

As long that tiny Haiti remains in the center of it all, sounds good! The race to develop Haiti, whomever does the most and at the fastest time wins!

Since China has shown that it keeps its word, that in itself is a guarantee that the pledge amounts of investments will be made. China is the new kid on the superpower block, Trump will not just let the kid make the old boy look bad, and the EU will not just sit around as the USA and China gain more power in this part of the world.

In the mean time, little Haiti is shining in the Sun. Finally, its out of that long dark tunnel.
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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Given that Trump is at the head of the USA, and knowing how he likes to be the best and number one at everything and now wants to impose that on the USA, perhaps Haitian diplomats can have a meeting with him. In that meeting they should, indirectly of course, make Trump aware of the great plan that China has for Haiti, the implications this will have in the overall power of China right in the USA's backyard, and how weak and bad the USA will look when China accomplishes in a few decades what the USA hasn't accomplished with Haiti in over a century.

Maybe, if they know how to stroke Trump's ego and patriotism just right, he might counter the Chinese proposal with a new American plan that, again knowing Trump, could be $60 billion. You know, to keep the USA in the number one, the best, the most amazing position (per Trump.)

Then, given the EU's envy of the power of the USA (which is the main reason the EU even exists, lets not kid ourselves), Haitian diplomats can go over there and do the same. Hopefully the EU will unleash their own multibillion dollar; excuse me, I meant multibillion euro lol; proposal for Haiti too.

As long that tiny Haiti remains in the center of it all, sounds good! The race to develop Haiti, whomever does the most and at the fastest time wins!

Since China has shown that it keeps its word, that in itself is a guarantee that the pledge amounts of investments will be made. China is the new kid on the superpower block, Trump will not just let the kid make the old boy look bad, and the EU will not just sit around as the USA and China gain more power in this part of the world.

In the mean time, little Haiti is shining in the Sun. Finally, its out of that long dark tunnel.

I believe that the USA and the EU are in no position to help to develop a Haitian partnership even if they wanted to and they have had almost 2.5 centuries of proving that they haven't wanted to help going against them. It's time for Haiti and all the Caribbean and Latin American countries to step out from the shadows of their former colonial detractors and show what they are made of. These people are as worthwhile as anyone anywhere and it is time for them to step up and take their place at the table of nations as equals. We will have a better world for it.
 

Fulano2

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Jun 5, 2011
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Europe
@NALs
I think your impression of the EU is not realistic. The EU doesnt have that eager to be the best and biggest etc etc. And there is no interes at all for the carribean exept our little islands.
 

the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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I believe that the USA and the EU are in no position to help to develop a Haitian partnership even if they wanted to and they have had almost 2.5 centuries of proving that they haven't wanted to help going against them. It's time for Haiti and all the Caribbean and Latin American countries to step out from the shadows of their former colonial detractors and show what they are made of. These people are as worthwhile as anyone anywhere and it is time for them to step up and take their place at the table of nations as equals. We will have a better world for it.

well, one thing we can all agree on is that there is no way on Gods green earth that China can be worse for the region than Europe and the USA. as Trump said...what have you got to lose?
 

greydread

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Jan 3, 2007
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You mean EU or Europe? Europe is a continent.

European Union. Specifically in this case, France and England who have been exceptionally rude to Haiti (along with the USA) since its inception. It appears they sent the wrong message to the colonial world about colonialism. Imagine that.
 

Fulano2

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Jun 5, 2011
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Is Jamaica a better Place now independent? The moment Aruba had the choice, being independent or keep on with the netherlands, wisely choose for keep on with status aparte. All those little islands are better of with belonging to greater nations. Being rude is of course always wrong.
 

Dark_Scorpion

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Aug 13, 2012
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which means, in summary, that the Chinese will reap the loaves, and the Haitians will get the crumbs. that does not look to me like the light at the end of the tunnel.

The Chinese are absolutely ruthless and could care less about Haitians. They are not investing in Haiti they are investing in China they are just using Haitians as pawns. In order for Haiti to thrive it has to come from Haitians, not outsiders. Unfortunately with an average IQ of 67 Haiti isn't going anywhere anytime in the foreseeable future. The Gorgon is absolutely correct.

The Chinese deals in Africa are scams. They bring in billions for infrastructure which provides jobs mostly for their own people then they pay off the corrupt leadership who pockets the money in offshore Swiss and Luxembourg accounts. Then China extracts minerals moves on and
average Africans remain poor. Same will happen in Haiti. Anyone who thinks the Chinese care about Haitians or Africans doesn't know much about the Chinese.

Equatorial Guinea is one of the most oil rich nations in Africa, and is run by ruthless tyrant named Teodoro Obiang who overthrew and butchered his uncle (the previous ruler). He does "deals" with the Chinese and Europeans. How much of that money you think reaches the average person in Equatorial Guinea?
 
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the gorgon

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Sep 16, 2010
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Is Jamaica a better Place now independent? The moment Aruba had the choice, being independent or keep on with the netherlands, wisely choose for keep on with status aparte. All those little islands are better of with belonging to greater nations. Being rude is of course always wrong.

very interesting question.

being a guy who has lived through both colonial , and post colonial ages, i can say that i see a difference. there are qualities of life which have deteriorated since the British left. it was far more orderly, and disciplined in the colonial era.

however, there is something uplifting in the knowledge that you are not someone elses property. especially when slavery was a part of your history and heritage.