Thoughts on gringo houses and gringo prices...

[MommC]

I've had my coffee and agree with PIB. Yes in places like Playa del Muerte a few yrs back (haven't been in four years) there were shacks biult with crude timbers, walls and roofs made from the pickings of the different palm trees in the traditional manner of the Taino Indians and early settlers of the island (500+ years ago). They probably were all blown down in the last hurricane however the fishermen that built them as crude shelter for when they were there for 4-5 days fishing may have rebuilt them. Much like we Canadians will pitch a tent (teepee) when camping in the woods for a weekend. However come Monday when we all go back to town after a sojourn in the "wilds" we return to our comfy houses after having "roughed" it for a few days.
I mean who really wants to rough it all the time when you needn't unlike some areas of Africa and India and the South Pacific that are pretty much the same as they were five hundred years ago.
Fortunately for us expats the DR has made progress.
(more to follow) I gotta get rid of my coffee now!

 

[MommC]

The wonderful thing about the DR is that one can choose how they would like to live! In a modern house with all the "gringo" conveniences such as indoor plumbing, electricity, hot ans cold running water, gas stove, refridgerator, computer etc. or you can choose to buy a piece of land in the "campo", build a palm hut, haul your water from the river or a hand dug well etc. The choice is yours!! As well as anything in between........
so ask some serious questions about things you need to know and I'm sure some of the folks on the board will be able to answer you.

 

[MommC]

See also Pib's response in the "Building in the DR" thread!
http://dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=111439#post111439

 

[Barnabe]

To Pib and Goneglobal about gringo houses

Pib: "BTW, 510 years worth of wisdom indicates that "local" materials don't withstand the forces of a hurricane. Even some "modern' constructions have a hard time doing it. I for one find comfort in the fact that my house will not fly off like a kite when the next one hits. "

I wonder, if you don't mind, what you should find questionable: the local materials or the local "wisdom"?

In my country -France, sorry about that..- if you ask a campesino if it is possible to build a house out of mud he will laugh. Impossible! Go in Yemen, they make buildings 7 storeys high with crude mud... Where is the wisdom?

Goneglobal, I must tell the truth, your posts are too long (verbiage?) and there are many things I do not understand.. And Pib is right: RD is a modern country, maybe you should not have dreams of the 19th century.. But, as for me, I respect your traveller's experience and I think everyday there is something we can learn from others. About alternative building techniques in DR, as you are in France with a french wife, let me tell you that "on ne fait pas boire un ?ne qui n'a pas soif".. Blocks and cement are so modern..

These are personal opinions only..

Feliz ano nuevo a toditos..

 

[Pib]

I don't need a new "ano", thank you.

By "local" materials I was referring to indigenous materials used in primitive constructions, that as we know, time and time again have been defeated by the formidable forces of a tropical hurricane. I have seen those same materials used in modern engineering in what should be more resistant constructions that couldn't resist a hurricane either (Casa de campo, Punta Cana Airport, e.g.).

If you haven't been in the middle of a hurricane you won't grasp the strenght that these *storms* have. Ask any dominican living in a fresh, little, typical, quaint house made with "local" materials, they will all say that they'd prefer to have a house made of concrete.

?Feliz a?o nuevo!

 

[HQB]

Building in the Caribbean

Have you check out any of the Belize web pages or boards? There is a builder down there who builds traditional Caribbean houses of 3 levels...ground floor level to aleviate flooding, second level as secure level and third level as bedrooms...most interesting factor is that the roof is designed to pop in the event of a hurricane thus avoiding pressure build-up...

Your original post was about 'no walls' I believe you refered to the difference between gated communities and traditional communities. Please clarify.

The Southern Caribbean boasts a hotel without significant walls...nothing to do with security or hurricanes, simply open to the elements...

Many hurricane areas throughout the know hurricane hi spots boast long standing houses built of natural materials that have weathered many hurricanes...most damage seems to come from immovalable objects, pressure build-up, flying objects, mud slides, flooding etc...and yes, I have been through a hurricane...preferable to a tornado or earthquake any day...

The most I can offer as the type of expat you don't bother with is the fact that I have been round the block a few times...been there done that type of thing...

 

[Criss Colon]

Some people dream about living on a tropical paradise,

...and some of us live live in the Dominican Republic! "GoneGlobal",is just that,GONE! Most of us "Foreigners" who post on DR1 have chosen to "Make a Life" in the DR.Some are "Snow Birds",some are "retired" and live here year around,and some of us still,"work"here . We live at all levels of the economy,but most of us would be condidered "Wealthy" by dominican measure .We have "Walls",and "Bars",because theft is very much a part of the dominican culture.If you get "robbed",it's your fault for not protecting your "stuff"!We worry about "Hurricanes" when they are blowing the Banana trees out of our front yards! If you have some "SPECIFIC" questions,ask them! Your "Hippy Dippy" pseudo-intellectual "Mierda de Toro" doesn't fly here.(We can't say "Bullshit" on DR1!)(Hey! Looks like we CAN!) Maybe the "Cafe Crowd" in Paris is impressed, I "Ain't"!You should buy a tape recorder,read your posts out loud,then play them back to yourself!That way, someone who gives a "FLYINGFUCK" would be paying attention to your endless wrantings!CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCccccccccccccccccCCCC

 

[goneglobal]

"specific question" here......

I thought the my original post had a few "SPECIFIC" questions?!

And a few DR expats attempted to answer them while other frequent posters have added nothing for, perhaps, obvious reasons.

HQB....no offence was intended with the "no bother" statement...the point was that in every country where we lived and traveled, my family has always lived 'local' and all of us have many 'been there, done that' friends like yourself.

And the US, Canada, Australia, and France are all on this "planet" .....but I'm going to call a buddy at NASA just to double-check....

I also know that in places like DR many "Foreigners" considered "Wealthy" are out there MEATING the locals behind their "WALLS" If she was married, then the "Walls and "Bars" makes sense and "We" might be worried about protecting more than just "stuff" Your macho "Bullshit" might impress some but I "Ain't" And yes, I and other members of my "Cafe Crowd" know my 'merde' stinks as well. Our common bond is they know theirs does as well!

And I give no credence to "510 years of wisdom" Just look around, , have a look down the street and then tell me our forefathers got it right....tell a Greek islander that his ancient flat roof doesn't work....while sipping Ozo and watching the sunset on his.....


And if having "too much time on my hands" means I spend it trying to save $$......I'll be the first to admit I'm guilty. Like I said previously, I've met many gringo RE agents marketing property on-line in 2nd-3rd world countries. As a general observation, most of the property they are selling has been designed, built, and priced to sell primarily to tourists who speak the same language, with very few exceptions.

Any owner/builders out there care to comment on my original post?

 

[goneglobal]

another thought on those flat roofs....

The reason they are rarely used in places like sunny California, on the coastlines of Australia, and even here in Paris is probably because of concern about hurricanes as well....

The 'wisdom' of our age never ceases to amaze me!

 

[Barnabe]

To Pib:

Sorry to hurt the famous dominican pride by mistyping my "ano".

"you won't grasp the strenght that these *storms* have"

strenght?...strength..?

well, happy new year anyway..

 

[Pib]

To Pib:
Sorry to hurt the famous dominican pride by mistyping my "ano".
"you won't grasp the strenght that these *storms* have"
strenght?...strength..?
well, happy new year anyway..

Hehe, in another forum I participate there is a law for that. I won't give the name but it goes like this

"So-and-so First Law: When attempting to criticize or correct another poster's mispellings and grammar one will always mispell at least one word in that post."

I have never seen it fail.

I am particularly nitpicky and a little like the grammar nazi here when it comes to our little friend the "e?e" (there's a thread somewhere about it). As you may be well aware of, "ano" and "a?o" have two entirely different meanings. It bugs me to no end been wished a "Happy New Anus". Mine is functioning all too well(if not for the occasional Craneus-in-Anus" syndrome that set us DR1ers [most] apart from the rest of the crowd.) That comment was a vain attempt at humor that I henceforth will not try again until such time that I can make sure my audience gets it.


So goneglobal, you conveniently dismiss 510 yrs of Dominicans wisdom but are willing to cut, say a few yards more slack to folks in Asia... here I go wondering...wisdom is ok in some folks, not so ok in others. As we say in Spanish "You can't have the middle and the two ends".

 

[lilly]

Goneglobal,

I would love to have a neighbor like you in a tropical country...

But for the time being, I am a neighbor of yours in Paris, and we don't even know one another. It must be because we both have walls around us.

I like what you're saying though and am asking for more.

Who knows, may be some day we'll end up being neighbors in a tropical country with no walls (and if it's not us it will be our children?).

That will be a really happy New Year!!

 

[MommC]

Well since the question was asked - while not a builder- our building was built by Dominicans, for Dominicans. However most of them have now sold out to "tourists" (they've bought bigger and better in Bani).
It is a concrete four story building 300 meters (900 ft) from the shore with insulated or "tinted" glass windows made of aluminum framing or mahogany (caoba) framing with solid mohogany doors!
So much for palm fronds and tin roofs (which in our building are flat, we solved the problem of filtration by tiling the roof with outdoor ceramic tile and waterproof grout!)

 

[Escott]

Ho Boy... As a rational person I wouldnt buy in a market I am not familiar with. After getting to know the market I would start looking and comparing doing comparables to determine what is good for me and what is not good for me. Your statements are just plain silly to a rational person. Maybe I ought to ponder my belly button some more.

I would like to introduce you to an expression in Real Estate that happens to be Law in NY State albeit I have no clue about the DR. *Let the buyer beware*. I have been in the real estate business profitably for close to 30 years and have been going to the DR for years with the plan to retire there shortly and I have decided for myself that Real Estate there is not a great investment for me since I get 15 plus percent interest on Dollars and 24% plus on Peso.

Well I guess you got the attention you were seeking but to what end, I dont have a clue.

Regards

 

[goneglobal]

jazzcom....thanks for the sound advise!

In reading your posts on this and many other topics, sounds like you might be setting up a least one your expat DR mates for the propery DEAL of the CENTURY!

Ever thought about becoming a Buyer's Agent?

Your idea about a Investment Branch is a good one.....I wonder how useful any advise or tips or about Real Estate would be in that possible new category....For those of us who are well beyond the "buyer beware" stage.....

In the meantime, good luck on those peso/dollar deals....


BTW, any insight on the questions posed in my original post would still be appreciated!

(especially by frequent DR visitors like jazzcom)

 

[KenoshaChris]

Not a Wall

Thats not a wall goneglobal is behind. Its a bong!

 

[Escott]

Goneglobal... I do not set up people. I put people together for mutual satisfaction and do not make a dime on anything in the DR besides interest investments.

To become a buyers agent I would need more knowledge than I have or will have in the near future.

Your assumptions are just that and have no basis of fact that I know of and I cannot comment on what I would consider nonsense. Ask a question that is easy to understand without prefacing it with bs and I would be happy to answer it to the best of my ability and if I dont have the answer I will turn you onto someone that may.

Regards

 

[A Nony Mouse]

What walls.....?

Goneglobal. This thread is so long that I have lost track of your original question, if there was one.

You seem concerned about expats living behind walls here in the DR. If you mean gated communities, they represent a very small percentage of expat homes. Most expats that I know in Puerto Plata live in areas that are predominantly inhabited by middle class or rich Dominicans. If I knew of an affordable, completely expat area here I would move there in an instant to get away from the roosters, dog barking, loud music, and other irritations that come with integrating into the local culture.

Residential properties here have walls, but not high enough to keep intruders out. The walls are much higher in Caracas, Venezuela where crime is a major problem.

Some expats that I know have bravely built modest homes in remote rural areas with local materials and integrated fully with the local peasantry. Unfortunately many seem to develop a "Great White Father" mentality and believe that they are leading their community to enlightenment. One must wonder how these communities survived for centuries without their condescending guidance. You can recognize these types when they come to town in their SUV because they are usually accompanied by their "Man Friday".

If your question is: "Is the DR a good place for me and my family to move to from France?" then I can say that I have not regretted moving here 14 years ago. A more important question you should ask is: "Where in the DR should we move to?" If you live in Paris and enjoy the sophistication of a large city and can live with the traffic and high rents, then Santo Dimingo is probably best for you. If you want to be around other expats, want supermarkets and other urban conveniences at a slower pace, then I recommend Puerto Plata. If you want to help
the locals build houses with materials that grow out of the ground you may end up in jail. It is illegal to cut down trees here, even if they are on your own property. A popular building material in the country is strips of bark from palm trees which is also illegal. I suggest cement, which also comes out of the ground and is completely legal. There are still lots of remote villages waiting for a gringo to move in and show them the way.

 

[Amicus]

"Am I mad in assuming that two economies are running parrallel...rich and poor? What advise would you give to the newcomer that might reverse these trends....if they exist at all? " (goneglobal)

"The country suffers from marked income inequality; the poorest half of the population receives less than one-fifth of GNP, while the richest 10% enjoy 40% of national income." (World Fact Book)

No, that is precisely what is happening. The rich ARE getting richer and the poor ...

This will remain for the foreseeable future. There is no indication from local politics that those who are elected to run the country will do anything more than to keep the lower classes more or less fed, clothed and housed. There will not be any great progression from a lower to a middle-class existence.

Why not? Because the political will is not there. If it were, the people would have voted just such a government into power.

So, it is conceivable that, if there is a great global commotion for which international trade and commerce is seriously perturbed over a sufficiently long period of time, then all third-world countries are going to suffer. This will necessarily instigate the lower income classes and could bring instability.

Is this going to happen? Not likely. Could it happen? Yes. So, protect yourself with common sense. Life has always been a risk, but always a risk worth estimating. How much of a risk-taker are you?

 

[sirkusartisten]

Taken to the cleaners? Pardon me for asking......