Train Route Santo Dgo To Santiago

[ElvisNYC]

Fine, let's say busses are not the solution for a city of 2,5 million and growing and the SD metro is the solution ($1 billion US dollars and more with all the subsidies) Let's say this SD-Santiago project goes underway (probably another $800 million- $1 billion) because it would be utilized for commercial and personal transportation. So far the trains costs about $53-63 million dollars each train. Ok, I understand !

A country where GDP is at $36.4 billion (official exchange rate) and spending about $1,8 - 2,0 billion dollars for trains.. when you have 15.6-17% unemployment rate (i'm pretty sure this number is higher), between 42-50% of its population live below the poverty line, public debt is at 40% of GDP, problems with supplying its general population w/constant electricity and free health care (especially if the government can afford $1,8-2,0 billion dollars for transportation), I'm still trying to find ways to understand your viewpoints stating why these projects are a great investment and not an expense !

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Chip, my point is that any kind of study will not be done to allay any fears the citizenry may have. Once the plans are made and the dividing up of the pot to the politicos and businessmen is finalize the opinions or fears of the people is the last thing on their mind.

 

[Mr_DR]

Gracias. Por supuesto que creo que la inversi?n en los dichos sectores es bastante importante.

Lo que estoy proponiendo es que ser? mejor bajar los sueldos de los pol?ticos y con estos mismos billones de pesos, invertirlos en aumentar los salarios de los verdaderos patriotas que se est?n fajando de verdad todos los d?as para el pueblo como la polic?a, m?dicos, y ingenieros. Tambi?n se debe invertir mas fondos en la limpieza y mantenimiento de la infraestructura existente, como las calles, agua negra y alcantarilla.

Chip,

Your ideas would make a perfect world, but it is something that is not going to happened in a time frame of night to morning specially in a country that you just called a "Banana Republic" give it more time and we will see.

If these gov officials are making so much money is because during prior admins there was so much corruption that it would make the present admin look like saints. So when Leonel took over he cleaned up much of the corruptions going on, many of the corrupts were convicted and jailed. Also Leonel raised gov officials wages to see if by making proper wages it would help corruption.

You would not believe how many embassies he ordered closed because they were just embassies not being operated yet there were many people living it up worldwide collecting
a Dominican gov check for just partying. You would call these embassies and you could never get anybody on the phone.

Believe me Chip, much of the things that you would like to get done is getting slowly done
but it is just going to take time, and as much as we don't like it there will always be some form of corruptions. It is a human imperfection and worldwide illness.

 

[PICHARDO]

Fine, let's say busses are not the solution for a city of 2,5 million and growing and the SD metro is the solution ($1 billion US dollars and more with all the subsidies) Let's say this SD-Santiago project goes underway (probably another $800 million- $1 billion) because it would be utilized for commercial and personal transportation. So far the trains costs about $53-63 million dollars each train. Ok, I understand !

A country where GDP is at $36.4 billion (official exchange rate) and spending about $1,8 - 2,0 billion dollars for trains.. when you have 15.6-17% unemployment rate (i'm pretty sure this number is higher), between 42-50% of its population live below the poverty line, public debt is at 40% of GDP, problems with supplying its general population w/constant electricity and free health care (especially if the government can afford $1,8-2,0 billion dollars for transportation), I'm still trying to find ways to understand your viewpoints stating why these projects are a great investment and not an expense !

I don't know if you got your accounting and numbers certified in the same place as Jodeologo Osiris Leon, but this I can tell you:

The SD is not a US $ 1 Billion project by a long shot!!! LOL!!! Where the heck you find these figures?!?!?!?

The trains are "financed" not paid for from the DR's budget!!!

The SD Metro won't see the subsidy provided to the local owners of the country, the system was meant to be run and held by private investors not the state. The role of the gov is in the capacity of facilitator to investors.

You can't get investors to something that didn't exist, hence the line 1 of the SD Metro! Already multiple offers came in to continue the work and run the system with major gov input...

The SD - Santiago will also get most of the funding from the private sector, once the studies being carried out are finished; the plan will get the appropriate gov backing via consolidated loans with gov guarantees to financial lenders.

The cost to the DR's gov can't be even set as of today, given the fluid negotiations going on. Once the private side signs the agreement with the gov, all debt from the train cars, signaling systems, electronics, etc... Will be assumed under the private accountability with gov securities.

Thinks of it as building a candy factory with a gov backed loan and after the factory is constructed the factory then moves to private hands along the debts, but still backed by the gov to international lenders. The gov only invested on the national part of the infrastructure, not the mechanical parts that came via imports. As it stands the DR's gov investment so far on their side is remarkably the lowest cost for a Metro of this kind built.

Stop guessing stuff based on opinions from complainers that know nothing and pay attention the actual foreign loans the gov assumed for the Metro. The infrastructure was paid by the internal tax collection, which will be increased soon to meet the evaders that fail to pay them.

To give you an example of how it works:

Most Metro systems are always in subsidy b/c the gov's cost to build them was accessibly high adding to the purchase of equipment from foreign providers. The DR Metro is not planned as such but in fact, most of the capital for the system was not of foreign origin. The capital used to build the infrastructure today will provide enough revenue via added value to non-Metro related assets that the gov will capitalize from.

I can expand more on this as this is an ongoing project. All in given time...

The DR gov will only pick up 40% of the actual cost to build the entire SD Metro system and that amount is also offset by the income to be generated via indirect revenues derivative of the project.

 

[Hipocrito Mejia]

The Education system will be discarded as it is today and replaced with a new system altogether. The money to continue operations as it is today is there and will be there until the new system is started; just that increase of investment is pointless unless you love throwing money into a black hole.

So building adequate schools that provide a technologically advanced learning environment for future generations to meet the challenges of your e-universe is throwing money into a black hole? I guess that we're better off leaving things as is and letting Alejandrina continue to build fancy vacation homes. Hey, the children will grow into uneducated adults, but at least they'll have a fancy train to ride on! :ermm:

Wow!!! So they steal 90% of the income here? They must be the best magicians to continue to run the country with the 10% left over! They can get a job at any financial institution in the world with that kind of credentials!!!! Get real! Perceived corruption is one thing, actual amounts another...

Obviously, that was an exageration on my part to get a point across. Since you claim not to get it, I'll put it in clearer terms. The Dominican way is to steal as much as possible once you get into office. In terms of percentage, a lot more is being stolen in DR than in other countries. We can only speculate how much is being stolen in the construction of the SD metro, since all the figures are top secret; except to you of course! Anyway, the bits that we do know about, don't bode well for Diandino and his cohorts... case in point; the purchase of the train cars. Maybe you can explain to me how China bought 2 times the amount of the same exact cars for half the price. Oh wait, it must be a new type of math; the kind that only those being taught current Dominican math can comprehend!

The SD Metro is not something you can gain public support for, in any country nowadays given the world economy. Whatever gives you the idea that providing the opposition data will help your case is beyond me, given that you cross your fingers as a good scout as you state your understanding of the political system of the DR.

Forget convincing the opposition. It's the general population that deserves at least an explanation of why and how their funds are being spent. It's not about getting people to agree with the government's initiatives, as they were already elected by a majority of the population, so in essence the people have agreed that they are the best choice to lead the country into the future. It's about being accountable and doing things in an honest, transparent manner. Keeping all the details buried is not getting it done!

Cliche indeed...
Join the army and lead a revolt to fusillade those stealing from the public coffers, I prefer to focus on the things I can change and support those that will change the system from within, not with rhetorics but actions...

So we agree that things need to be changed from within. Just who is more "from within" than the insiders themselves? How is anyone supposed to expect or accept change, when the insiders continue the stealing as usual? Changing the system from within requires a big purge, and this is not rhetoric, it is fact. We can't expect to make the most and best possible progress while corruption continues to eat away at the core like a cancer.

Join the crowd... But let me off from the bullhorn calling

The only crowd that I've joined is the one that is sick and tired of seeing administration after administration from each of the major political parties rape the country of its assets and resources. You may not have to get on that bullhorn now, but I'm sure that you'll be running for it, once your beloved PLD is gone from power and a new set of thieves is in control and you're once again left on the outside looking in.

 

[NALs]

If you let the poor run this country, then we will all go to hell. if the funcionarios won't make the good money, they will not perform well in their jobs and; on the contrary they will have more desire to rob money by other means.

That is very true. Look what's happening in Bolivia after Evo Morales became the president of that country. He is the first Indigenous Aymara to ever become president of Bolivia, the first president of non-elite background and where is Bolivia heading? Straight to hell.

Initially I thought he being elected president was going to be good for Bolivia, but the guy turned socialist and has erupted such strong racial tensions that Aymara indians all over Bolivia are now being discriminated to a degree never before. Yes, you read that correctly. The Aymara indian president has made the lot of his own people even worse!

The economy is in the shytehole, he wants to make keep the cultivation of Coca legal while doing lip service to wanting to eradicate cocaine, and a bunch of other idiotic things. In fact, the rich have had it with him and now there is a movement to split Bolivia and create a totally new country where the educated can run the show.

Look at this video to see how bad things have become for the average Indian / poor person in Bolivia since one "of their own" took power:

YouTube - Bolivia - Santa Cruz - Racismo

Look what happen in the DR during Hipolito. Albeit he was not poor (an idiot for sure), he represented the PRD, the suppose party of the "poor" and the ironic part is that every time the "party of the poor" takes power, the country goes to hell faster than the speed of light. Who gets hurt the most when the "party of the poor" gets power? You got it, the poor!

Put it this way, if it wasn't for the poors in this country, many resident gringos would still be single and virgin. You should be grateful to the rich dominicans for keeping the poor, poor or else, not a single tourist gringo would be getting laid in this country. hahahaha

No one is keeping the poor poor other than the poor themselves.

They are the one's who are constantly thinking, living, and acting in "poor ways". They don't take initiative towards improving their lots, they want everything handed to them, they want the easy life.

The state that your mind find itself in is reflected in your actions which dictates your reality.

People who are poor conscious, pessimistic, fatalistic will get plenty of poverty, failure, and despair in their lives.

People who are money conscious, optimistic, and create plans and follow through with them to reach their goals will get plenty of prosperity and success in their lives.

Go ahead and see for yourself. The poorer the person, the more negative they tend to be about everything in life; the wealthier the more positive. Also, of the poor who do move up in society, many of them learn to stop thinking like poor people before they were able to move up.

The only limitations that keep us from achieving our goals are those limitations we create for ourselves in our own mind.

Its so plain and simple and yet, its so hard for many to understand and/or apply.

-NALs

 

[Robert]

Understand I'm going to play by the rules, and I think Robert will see my point about the name calling.

If you want a battle, go at it by yourself - but the only person that will lose any respect will be you.

First, Chip drop the Spanish responses, anymore and they will be deleted.

As for the name calling, enough! Some of you are acting like kids, grow up.

If you have issues with a particular poster, add him to your ignore list or send them a email or PM and deal with it like adults.

If you have nothing of any use to post, don't post.

I'll open the thread back up after deleting a bunch of childish BS, lets see who will be the first to be erased from DR1. I suggest some of you think long and hard before posting in this thread again. Go ahead guys, make my day

 

[PICHARDO]

It's at moment like these that I wish to be a moderator and cut here and there with surgical precision!!! LOL!!!!

Thanks Robert!!!

 

[Tallman1818]

First, Chip drop the Spanish responses, anymore and they will be deleted.

As for the name calling, enough! Some of you are acting like kids, grow up.

If you have issues with a particular poster, add him to your ignore list or send them a email or PM and deal with it like adults.

If you have nothing of any use to post, don't post.

I'll open the thread back up after deleting a bunch of childish BS, lets see who will be the first to be erased from DR1. I suggest some of you think long and hard before posting in this thread again. Go ahead guys, make my day

Ahiiiiiiiiiiii, ok learn

 

[Mr_DR]

Es que yo soy partidario Chip de que a los policias se le suba el sueldo.

Are you kidding me?
The judicial branch has always been labeled as DR's most corrupt.

What you may not know is that this group that you are defending
think that they re above the law and think that they are living in
the "wild west".

Do you know how many innocent people die daily at the hands of these
cowboys?

Do you know how many crooks and assassins gets to walk free
because they know or are in bed with a higher ranking individual?

Do you know how many cases there has been where a lieutenant sees
a vehicle that he likes and finds a way to seize that person's property
just because it is something he wants for himself?

Do you know how many times cops would stop a drunk driver only to
ask the driver if he has an extra bottle for them?

Do you know how many innocent men have been shot cold by cops
only so that they can be with that man's wife/gf ?

When Leonel took over, he raised cops wages. I agree that they
should get pay more than what they officially get paid but in this branch
it is very difficult to control corruption because these cops think that their
badges and guns are passports to kill.

When teachers and doctors want to make more money they complain, protest,
march and do strikes as last solution.

Have you ever seen a cop do any of the above?

They are the enforcers of corruptions?

 

[Chip]

Are you kidding me?
The judicial branch has always been labeled as DR's most corrupt.

What you may not know is that this group that you are defending
think that they re above the law and think that they are living in
the "wild west".

Do you know how many innocent people die daily at the hands of these
cowboys?

Do you know how many crooks and assassins gets to walk free
because they know or are in bed with a higher ranking individual?

Do you know how many cases there has been where a lieutenant sees
a vehicle that he likes and finds a way to seize that person's property
just because it is something he wants for himself?

Do you know how many times cops would stop a drunk driver only to
ask the driver if he has an extra bottle for them?

Do you know how many innocent men have been shot cold by cops
only so that they can be with that man's wife/gf ?

When Leonel took over, he raised cops wages. I agree that they
should get pay more than what they officially get paid but in this

I recommend you start a separate thread to discuss this issue as Robert has made the point that we need to stay on topic.

See you over there.

 

[Mr_DR]

I recommend you start a separate thread to discuss this issue as Robert has made the point that we need to stay on topic.

See you over there.

Ok,
thanks

 

[Mr_DR]

Robert,
if you don't mind rederecting my last post to the corresponding thread, i would appreciate it.

thanks.

Also if you don't mind closing this thread.