- Thread starter Frank the Tank
- Start date
Trujillo's Grandson Seeks To Set Record Straight About El Jefe
True. And what's the deal with Latinos and 'staches? Leonel, Danilo, Gerardo Rivera, Vicente Fox... these guys are probably still hooked on '70s porn.
Who knows!!!
I would not think he would show up as a sock but I bet he is still reading.
You and others are going to need to understand what this thread is about and it isn't.
It is NOT about whether or not dictators are better than politicians. It OBVIOUSLY depends on which dictator and which politician we are talking about. All ruling kings (no the ceremonial ones) are/were dictators. Many of them are remembered as great men who did much for their people, and perhaps humanity.
It is NOT about whether or not the DR should go back to be ruled by someone like Trujillo. Nor even the Trujillos are arguing that.
It is NOT about whether Trujillo was perfect, in every way, and did nothing wrong. Nor even the Trujillos are arguing that.
What this thread is about is the Trujillo family desire that the Trujillo Era be judged FAIRLY.
Get it?
This mean that the COMPLETE TRUTH about that era should be known. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,...., yes and yes,...that includes the BAD things that were done....which some of you love to remind us (as if we didn't know).
But it MUST ALSO INCLUDE the GOOD things that were done (and there were many of them).
That is all.
If you and everyone else's agree that the COMPLETE TRUTH about the Trujillo Era be known, (all the bad and all the good) what on earth are we arguing about??????????????
And if you don't, you are dead wrong. We all should know the WHOLE TRUTH. Not just a part of it...what some cheap propagandists want known.
This goes without saying. That's the point of a dictatorship. To make the improvements the one in power favors, free from outside scrutiny and challenge.
Dominicaus, with all due respect, this or any other thread is not about what you want it to be. You shouldn't spend your forum life correcting people and telling them what they can say or not. Or implying people can't understand written language as well as you do. The thread developed into a very interesting argument, but you don't seem to be happy unless others validate your point of view. Many people here are never going to validate it, some because don't believe in it, others because they just don't care about it. You can live with it, or you can keep repeating the same things again and again just because you think people did not get it the first time. People got it, and moved past it.
The thread is about this:
"Trujillo's Grandson Seeks To Set Record Straight About El Jefe"
How do I know it?
Well, it is written right there...the OP put it. Any thing unclear?
The grandson is an opportunistic apologist. "Set the record straight" in this case means to deny accusations and exaggerate accomplishments. We get it.
Maybe. Nevertheless that does not invalidate the point that their actions be judged fairly, and that all their deeds (bad AND good) be reported as accurate as humanly possible...and let people reach their own conclusions based on COMPLETE and ACCURATE information (the whole truth...not just a part of it).
Not what they are saying...They have made it quite clear that they KNOW that many mistakes were made and many bad things were done...anyway, even if the grandson WANTED that, we don't have to do what he wants...we should do what is right...and what is right is to tell the complete truth about the era...that bad and the good...if anyone exaggerates, well the truth will set things straight.
Guess who has problems reading now?
This is what I posted " The thread developed into a very interesting argument...".
Develop: evolve, transform, expand...etc
I'm really signing off this thread, sadly for me. This is unbearable.
The problem today is there is no fear of repercussion amongst the ladrones. Perhaps if there were consequences for criminality then people would be afraid to perpetrate criminal acts. I think the big thing that drives nostalgia for El Jefe and the interest in him by many young adults is the breakdown and lack of the social order. Streets are filthy, electricity is sporadic, criminality is rampant. I highly doubt they are calling for a second coming of Trujillo but there is a strong under current and desire for a healthy dose of mano dura to help restore some order.
Yes,the problem is that there is no repercussions for alot of the criminals.With bribery they can do less
jail time and back on the streets they go and become repeat offenders.It's a vicious circle.
Some parts of the Middle East the punishment for stealing?The cutting of the right hand.I used to wonder
why crime rate is so low,now I know why.
Mr. AE bemoans Dominican life all the time. "In my day" this or that. I remind him that "in his day" was when Trujillo & Balaguer were running things. Sometimes he says that's what we need again. And if I ask him if that's what he really wants, he says 'probably not'.
FranktheTank is right - punks aren't afraid of anything anymore, and it has emboldened them.
FranktheTank is right - punks aren't afraid of anything anymore, and it has emboldened them.
The thread is about the truth. Just today the Federaci?n de Fundaci?nes Patrioticas that groups together small anti-Trujillo groups without little, or no real popular support like H?roes de Luper?n de 1949, h?roes de Constanza, Maim?n y Estero Hondo; Hermanas Mirabal; h?roes del 30 de Mayo and Manolo Tavarez foundations called on the government to apply an unconstitutional, unethical and repressive undemocratic law 5880-62 that instituted penalties for " louding, Trujillo's tyrannical regime, exhalt Trujillos in a loud voice, written form publicly, drawings, printed media, paintings or emblems will be prosecuted for committing crimes against public peace, security and will be punished with 10 days of prison to a year and a fine"
Give me a BREAK!
This all came about because Ramfis Dominguez Trujillo called for open discussions and investigations about the destiny of the former Trujillo properties; who's in possesion, how that came about and an inventory. He also wants a free dialogue about his grandfather.
I also want to know. He's a Dominican. I am too. We are entitled by the constitution to these rights.
A draconian law pushed by a tiny group of people long forgotten by history for their lack of legitimacy, and supported by governments that conveniently enriched themselves and these same self-proclaimed heroes by usurping and robbing the state
will not stop people from inquiring the reasons we have 50 years lost in the form of a constitutional dictatorship.
Using a law that has never been applied except thru sheer force. They stopped a Trujillo Museum, and a Trujillo Foundation.
But they cannot stop Dominicans from free speech. Or isn't this the reason we established a democratic state?
Wasn't free speech what Trujillo suppressed? Why do they want to suppress the right to true history? Can we erase 30 years of history by law?
The truth is the Anti-Trujillo forces fear Trujillo more than ever. They fear the opportunity of a revival of Trujillismo when they compare it to today's disastrous experiment with 50 years of fraud. Is not that Trujillo will resusitate. But the Trujillo family has the right to be Dominican citizens and enjoy the same rights all Dominicans enjoy.
They have a right to participate in politics, run for office and share their values.
They are a new generation.
They ask themselves like we do how it is possible for the H?roes de Luper?n to be concerned about the Trujillo family, but ignore the outright theft by the Leonel Fernandez government of the land and 180 apartments at Avenida Luper?n. You got that? Heroes de Luperon 1949=apartamentos de la Luper?n?
So the Comesolos can steal the country dry, but Trujillo's grandson can't say why?
Is this fair to you. If so, I might as well quit this thread.
I speak with facts. Not emotion. Many replies to threads are not supported with real arguments.
This is not about Trujillo. Trujillo is history. But his legacy remains wether you like it or not.
Our military runs with Trujillo's fuel. Our police is a repressive tool of the state, and a part time organized crime gang.
Let us hear the truth.
Certainly, people tend to hold grudges against those that do harm to them, regardless if they deserved it or not.
That's why the 0.0000001% of families that were directly affected by the Trujillo regime want the other 99.9999999% of families to react as if they too had someone killed or tortured or (fill in the blanks) during the regime, even though they did not. Very few people are even willing to mention why Trujillo got rid of their family member and why so few families went through such punishment, considering that almost everyone was tied to Trujillo in one way or another, and why did most victims belong to well-to-do families.
The reality is that if Trujillo had never killed Antonio de la Maza's brother, he would had died of old age. The event has been taught as an act of heroism for la Patria, but in reality it was a self-serving event, la Patria be damned (and that's what she has been subjected to since then!) I have had conversations with descendants of De la Maza and all have told me the same thing, if you had someone killed by him, you wouldn't be saying what you just said.
I have never had the guts to respond that I'm part of the 99.999999%. Sometimes friendship is more important than being right, but that doesn't make reality any less real.
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Why were the wealthy people the targets? Simple answer - they had the land and money Trujillo wanted.
Ever hear of the Gonzalez Martinez finca in SD? It stretched between the Malecon, Independencia, Ave. Lincoln and the Coca Cola factory. Stop and think of that parcel. Imagine its worth today. Trujillo wanted it to build his 'Feria'. Didn't matter that the owners had it in their family for over 100 years. The owner was tough too. Trujillo waited until he died, and his goons swooped in on the widow [whose Gonzalez family were the ancestral owners] and began their intimidation. It was understood that family members might disappear if she didn't sign the land over. We all know that she ultimately did, because today that finca is La Feria, O&M University, Centro de los Heroes, the pediatric hospital, etc. etc.
Mr. AE was born on that finca in 1948. That tough old man and his widow were his grandparents.
Ever hear of the Gonzalez Martinez finca in SD? It stretched between the Malecon, Independencia, Ave. Lincoln and the Coca Cola factory. Stop and think of that parcel. Imagine its worth today. Trujillo wanted it to build his 'Feria'. Didn't matter that the owners had it in their family for over 100 years. The owner was tough too. Trujillo waited until he died, and his goons swooped in on the widow [whose Gonzalez family were the ancestral owners] and began their intimidation. It was understood that family members might disappear if she didn't sign the land over. We all know that she ultimately did, because today that finca is La Feria, O&M University, Centro de los Heroes, the pediatric hospital, etc. etc.
Mr. AE was born on that finca in 1948. That tough old man and his widow were his grandparents.