What's this about the Political Parties???

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,523
3,210
113
And the point was?????

TB and crowd,

What was the point of my post?

Well, in case any of you did not got it was this:

No system of government in the world is perfect, not even that of Uncle Sam.:cry:

However (and I cannot stress this enough!),

Democracy comes in different shapes and forms and no two countries will be able to execute a carbon copy of a particular type of democracy, because guess what? Cookie cutter systems don't fit the different molds of the world!

This is why China is doing well right now with its system, but Russia is doing so so.

This is why the UK is doing well with its system, but the French are, well have any of you seen the news????

The list goes on and on.

In addition,

I wanted to show the natural reaction of humans when their own backyard is constantly being reminded of its dirt on his shirt, so to speak. I did the same to TB's homeland and he (along with other of his countrmen) responded in the same manner a Dominican responds when the same is done to him!

They go on to say how the pointing goes elsewhere, blah blah blah, they try to justify what they know.

Why does this occur?

Because no one and no system is perfect and because we are all humans who react the same, given equal or similar circumstances.

On top of all of this, whatever Leonel's group does matters little if the economy continues to grow and overall wealth continues to increase. So far, the country is looking like in the booming years of the 1990s, and as far as I can tell, people care of one thing and one thing only, their economic well being.

There won't be any well being if the economy is not doing good, regardless how wonderful of a government we may have. For a real life example look at Cuba. Wonderfully humanitarian, very bad economically.

-NAL
 

juancarlos

Bronze
Sep 28, 2003
676
0
0
Nals, Castro is "humanitarian" towards others- sending doctors to other nations, having others come to Cuba for "free" surgeries etc. but for Cubans it is a nightmare: lack of medicines, malnutrition for a segment of the pop. all kind of arbitrary laws which people are forced to break in order to survive and anyone is sent to jail for just about anything. Besides, they have to pay exhorbitant prices for anything. To that, add that Cubans are discriminated in their own country, barred from hotels, denied their rights at every step and the "humanitarian" aspect becomes smoke. The economy is bad, but that's how Cubans are controlled, they think of nothing else but surviving, no time for politics, only waiting for Castro to die to see if there' s a change. The other option for many is to risk their lives in the Fla. Strait and almost all who survive are promptly intercepted and returned to Cuba by the US Coast Guard. Castro's dictatorship is an iron fisted one. NO dictablanda there.
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Nal0whs said:
TB and crowd,

What was the point of my post?

Well, in case any of you did not got it was this:

No system of government in the world is perfect, not even that of Uncle Sam.:cry:

However (and I cannot stress this enough!),

Democracy comes in different shapes and forms and no two countries will be able to execute a carbon copy of a particular type of democracy, because guess what? Cookie cutter systems don't fit the different molds of the world!

This is why China is doing well right now with its system, but Russia is doing so so.

This is why the UK is doing well with its system, but the French are, well have any of you seen the news????

The list goes on and on.

In addition,

I wanted to show the natural reaction of humans when their own backyard is constantly being reminded of its dirt on his shirt, so to speak. I did the same to TB's homeland and he (along with other of his countrmen) responded in the same manner a Dominican responds when the same is done to him!

They go on to say how the pointing goes elsewhere, blah blah blah, they try to justify what they know.

Why does this occur?

Because no one and no system is perfect and because we are all humans who react the same, given equal or similar circumstances.

On top of all of this, whatever Leonel's group does matters little if the economy continues to grow and overall wealth continues to increase. So far, the country is looking like in the booming years of the 1990s, and as far as I can tell, people care of one thing and one thing only, their economic well being.

There won't be any well being if the economy is not doing good, regardless how wonderful of a government we may have. For a real life example look at Cuba. Wonderfully humanitarian, very bad economically.

-NAL

NalOws---

I compliment you on this post, because you have "hit the nail on the head", so to speak.

You are absolutely right and I am forced to apologige, one again, for my propensity to critisize escessively.

I just wish I could contribute effective solutions to the problems identified, in each of our minds, in these collective posts. Like you, I don't think that is possible for a person on the "outside, looking in" to do. We just don't have the intimate knowledge of the society to do so.

I will say, once again---Mea Culpa, perdone me.

Texas Bill
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
I will start this post with a couple of quotes by Winston Churchill, "Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.", and this Nals from Malcolm X, "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it."

NalOwhs as usual you get off topic and try to make excuses and dance around the issue and reason for the OP and this board in general. You will not get an apology from me as I have not stated a falsehood and have readily admitted to any factual matter concerning my homeland. Your quote "No system of government in the world is perfect, not even that of Uncle Sam.", brings Winston Churchills words to bear again "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.".

You mention China, which has nothing to do with the DR unless you are advocating that form of government here, as doing well. I ask you if living in an oppressed country, regardless of its economic standings, is what you want for the people of the DR? Then you mention Russia, which has nothing to do with the DR, it is democratic now, and say they are doing so so. What did Vladimir Putin say about his motherland? "History proves that all dictatorships, all authoritarian forms of government are transient. Only democratic systems are not transient. Whatever the shortcomings, mankind has not devised anything superior." Vladimir Putin, "Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain" Valdimir Putin, "Russia will not soon become, if it ever becomes, a second copy of the United States or England - where liberal value have deep historic roots." Valdimir Putin. In your last paragraph you decide to mention Cuba which has nothing to do with the DR unless you are advocating that form of government here. What form of government do you want HERE IN THE DR?

Staying off topic you mention other countries and try to relate to their internal conditions and or economic status and then begin to state that the economy of the DR is alive and well. You then follow with the indication that regardless of what the DR government, Leonel's group, does has no true effect on the DR ecomony. Say what? The 'overall wealth' that you are referring to in reality is nothing more then more wealth for the present rich.

With your quote of' "people care of one thing and one thing only, their economic well being.", brings up a couple of questions for you. Do you think the "people" would be economically better off if the corruption were to be reduced and maybe eliminated? Do you think the "people", and I hope you are talking about All the people here in the DR and not just the rich ones, would be better off socially and economically if a BETTER form of democracy were in place here in the DR? Answer those two questions for me without going off on a tangent and discussing other countries as I want to know, and the board requires it, about that which is related here in the DR. More of Churchill, "One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half."

Rick
 

suarezn

Gold
Feb 3, 2002
5,823
290
0
55
OK. Back on topic...The PRSC allied itself with The PRD. What does this mean? Well for one it is going to be extremely hard for The PLD to gain control of congress or even gain any seats as everyone thought they would. This does not bode well for Leonel and The PLD for next presidential elections. If the PRCS-PRD alliance does really well (as expected) The PRSC will be in an extremely enviable position for 2008. They will get whatever they want...I think I anybody who joins in now should be pretty well off by the end of 2008...
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,523
3,210
113
Texas Bill said:
NalOws---

I compliment you on this post, because you have "hit the nail on the head", so to speak.

You are absolutely right and I am forced to apologige, one again, for my propensity to critisize escessively.

I just wish I could contribute effective solutions to the problems identified, in each of our minds, in these collective posts. Like you, I don't think that is possible for a person on the "outside, looking in" to do. We just don't have the intimate knowledge of the society to do so.

I will say, once again---Mea Culpa, perdone me.

Texas Bill
TB,

No apology needed.

In my opinion, the only time an apology is needed is if something is done with malicious intent, I don't suspect this from you, neither now or before and perhaps ever.

-NAL:rambo:
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,523
3,210
113
Rick Rick Rick!

Here we go again....

You will not get an apology from me
I am not expecting or requiring an apology either from you or anybody, unless of course you had malicious intent, but I doubt that.

People with real malicious intent are taken care of by Robert and company!

You mention China, which has nothing to do with the DR unless you are advocating that form of government here, as doing well. I ask you if living in an oppressed country, regardless of its economic standings, is what you want for the people of the DR?
I mentioned China in order to show that communism mixed with capitalism is working for them, for the time being. That does not mean its working in other countries.

As for oppression, no, I would be horrified if the Dominican Republic falls into another oppressive regime.

Then you mention Russia, which has nothing to do with the DR, it is democratic now, and say they are doing so so.
They are doing "so so"! The only thing that is keeping Russia alive is oil.

Russian's woes are not due to democracy, but due to the legacy of communism!

What form of government do you want HERE IN THE DR?
Democratic government where we get to chose our good presidents and vote off the bad ones!

I believe we just did a wonderful job recently!

You then follow with the indication that regardless of what the DR government, Leonel's group, does has no true effect on the DR ecomony. Say what?
Virgen de la altagracia, que cosa mas grande!

Listen to me and listen very well (or should I say read:ermm: )

The economy is booming, regardless who likes it or not, the economy is booming.

Whatever Leonel does is not important AS LONG AS THE ECONOMY CONTINUES TO BOOM.

If Leonel does something that starts to affect the economy negatively, then obviously, we can't support such thing, but so far the economy is booming!

Whatever Leonel has been doing has been for the benefit of the economy of the country and that has been demonstrated by the current state of the national economy. I don't think would were able to say that during the 2000-2004 time period!

Do you think the "people" would be economically better off if the corruption were to be reduced and maybe eliminated?
Yes, people would be better off with less corruption.

Why? Because money being siphon off to corrupt practices would then be available to fund other more important things, such as public education, public health, or even pay off this annoying debt.

However, why is there corruption?

Corruption exist because of weak democratic institutions. There are weak democratic institutions because of disregard for order and laws. There is a disregard for order and laws because of a lack of economic opportunity. There is a lack of economic opportunity because the economy is not big enough to support every man, woman, and child living in this land.

How can we change all of that? Through economic growth.

Economic growth leads to greater economic opportunities, which leads to greater regard for order and laws, which leads to strengthening of democratic institutions, which leads to less corruption. The cicle goes on and on and on, for the benefit of all.

But notice, it all started with increase affluence created by economic growth!

How can we get economic growth on a per capita basis? Several ways.

A. Lower the population via lower birth rates, controlling immigration, and encouraging emigration.

B. Increase the size of the economy via economic growth.

C. A combination of the two.

With out a middle class, there is no democracy and without economic growth there is not middle class.

First we must learn to stand up, before we can walk!

Do you think the "people", and I hope you are talking about All the people here in the DR and not just the rich ones, would be better off socially and economically if a BETTER form of democracy were in place here in the DR?
The thing is this and this is why I often respond the way I do when people complain about the current system!

The current form of democracy we have here is based on the same principles democracies around the world are based! The problem is that the democratic institutions are weak, which leads to much of the inefficiencies in government that we see today.

What is needed for a successful economic and democratic nation? The following:

1. Property rights
2. Scientific rationalism
3. Capital markets
4. Transportation and communication

Property rights are better than ever in this country, but there is still more work to be done.

Scientific rationalism is stronger than ever, but again, there is more work to be done. However, the introduction of CAFTA will actually help in this arena, because among the many requirements need for the agreement is the observance and respectability of international intellectual property rights and the sorts and all of this goes right down this path.

Capital markets has been proven of being capable of existing in this country, given the proper management skills of government officials and the Central Bank. Dominican entrepreneurs today have access to sufficient capital to pursue their entrepreneurial activities, thanks to the good management of the current administration. We saw what happened during Hipolito's rule, who ever want hard currency had to grow it in their back yard because of the severe scarcity! Capital markets need good management in order to flourish and the current people in power know how to do this well. You don't get 7% economic growth rate by simply wishing, it takes proper and good work to get those high numbers and such acheivement is a testament to how competent a governing administration is to its obligations as a government entity and the people over whom it has authority over.

Transportation is well developed, particularly when it comes to interconnectivity between the most productive areas of the country (ie. Santo Domingo, Cibao Valley, North Coast, and Eastern Coasts). All those areas are connected by good primary roads, a well developed trucking system, international airports connecting them directly to the rest of the world, and accessible infrastructure where the infrastructure is crucial for economic sustainability.

Communications is one sector where the DR is number one in the Latin American world. It does not gets any better than this, case closed!

As you can see, we have the basis need for success in this country. The problem is that they are still in their infancy, weak to a certain extent, and are in need of improvement. These improvements will come as the country's middle class continues to develope and grow. The middle class will grow with economic opportunity. Economic opportunity will emerge as economic growth remains favorable. Economic growth remains favorable as long as the authorities maintain sound economic policies in place. and all of this leads to stronger democratic institutions which leads to less corruption, etc etc etc.

You CANNOT have a thriving democracy without fortalizing the basics firsts! Look at Haiti, to not go too far, the Americans built roads, schools, hospitals, aqueducts, electricity, sanitation, the full mambo jambo during their occupation in the beginning of the 1900s. Did that helped Haiti become a successful democracy? No!

Why did that failed? Because no attention was given to the basics, property rights, scientific rationalism, capital markets, and transportation and communication! Without this, democracy is doomed before it even starts!

I will finish with this:No one in this world knows exactly why some countries are rich and others poor. If some one truly knew the answer, the entire world would have been developed by now! However, we do know what worked in one country and what failed in another. We also have realized that cookie cutter applications of anything will not work everywhere and will not give the same results as it did in its best example! For this reason, we must work to understand the perfect mix to suit each country's reality in order to acheive the most optimum level of development such society deserves to achieve! Cookie cutters don't work! Intelligent reasoning, understanding, and applications does work! Let's start from there!

-NAL
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
As Leonels first term did not have anywhere near a majority in either house he did some very good things for this country and improvement was on the rise. During this second term he once again has no where near a majority in either house and once again the DR is improving. It is my hope and desire that the Dominicans can learn something from history and look back and remember the road they traveled during the PRD and PRSC reigns of terrxx, I mean power, in the years past. Unfortunately they seem to have difficulty remembering the 2000-2004 period so in reality I don't have much faith in them remembering prior to 1996. "Everybody wants to eat at the government's table, but nobody wants to do the dishes." Werner Finck

As NalOwhs has pointed out numerous times the economy is so much better and the middle class is on the rise but the poor lower class is still the majority. Until the middle and upper classes of the Dominican population start reaching out to the poor majority and teaching them that the betterment of the economy will help their lot in life and what things are needed to ensure continued growth the possibility of a good functioning government is not in their future.

In regards to that article referenced by suarezn things surely don't look good for the PLD but may I remind you that the support that Orlando Jorge Mera and Victor Gomez Casanova, the leaders of the PRD and PRSC, are offering is in reality are votes of the poor Dominicans. If anyone, between now and June of 2006, could persuade the poor class Dominicans, at least 51% of them, unity and how to really help their country by voting anything other then PRD and PRSC then those two parties would hold nothing to barter with.
Once again I will mention the fact that over 50% of the Dominican population are women that can vote. If someone were to unify the female vote and convince them to vote on election day then improvement could happen."Improvement begins with I." Arnold H Glasqow.

The problem with these two scenarios is who is the someone or someones to get this thing off the ground. "Those that know, do. Those that understand, teach." Aristotle.

Rick
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
NalOwhs that was a very, very, very good post and I thank you very much for answering my questions.

In my last post, #28, I said I think the DR needs people to "persuade the poor class Dominicans, at least 51% of them, unity and how to really help their country by voting anything other then PRD and PRSC then those two parties would hold nothing to barter with." I think you NalOwhs should consider being one of the many people to do this. That comment is coming from the bottom of my heart.

Rick
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=8019 Announced electoral alliance rejected by the rank and file

Ahhh the fighting begins within the rank and file of the PRD, music to my ears and I hope it continues. About time for the fighting to commence within the PRSC to even things out.

An idea came to mind last night and I thought I'd run it up the pole to see how many salutes it might get. NalOwhs said, "Intelligent reasoning, understanding, and applications does work! Let's start from there!". Do we have a consensus on that statement? Let's break that statement down;

Intelligent reasoning - As reasoning is the discussing of something then there is the need of at least two people to formulate said discussion. The discussion must be directed toward a particular subject without going off on a tangent if you truly wish to achieve an answer and therein lies the word intelligent. Are there people out there that are truly interested in developing intelligent reasoning concerning how the DR can achieve the most optimum level of development?

understanding - Through the reasoning there should transpire a form of understanding as to what the problems are and how to best address them.

applications - Once the problems are identified and how to possibly address them then corrective action must be taken in order to achieve a desired change.

As I live in this country I am very interested that the DR achieve the most optimum level of development for my family's sake and that of the Dominican people as a whole. As the intelligent reasoning, in reality, should be done by Dominicans it would therefore be done in Spanish. People such as myself, who are not Dominican and don't speak Spanish, might not be able to take part in the discussions but could be used in the applications portion.

Living here in El Seybo I am nowhere near the hub of this country but in this area as in all areas of the DR there are voters and they are the ones that you must convince in order to bring about change. I mentioned before that I have a friend that is a radio broadcaster and operates an hour long TV show here in my town. Because of this friendship I could probably get any intelligent messages or ideas broadcasted on the radio and TV in this part of the DR.. As the word of mouth is so alive and well within this country the possibility of exerting a ponderable influence on the population in this and other areas is fessible.

Are we going to get started?

Rick
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
I think Rick's idea has possibilities--

The main problem, as I see it, is to establish an agenda which is acceptable to the individual who will be producing the TV Show. Will he, can he, cooperaate to the degree that the most important political, economic and social subjects be discussed in depth by a selected intelligent group of prominent Spanish speakers who may be, or not be, expert enough in those particular disciplines to get the basic points across to an uneducated audience.

Such an endeavor will require a condensation of the essential elements for discussion and rigid discipline in the conduct of the Show.

Rick, do yo think this friend of yours can pull it off with his sponsors? Will they go along with the agenda? Will they contribue to the discussions? Will they allow controversial subjects to be presented? Will local educators, religious leaders, political leaders, etc., participate without becoming factional over the subject matter?

Does your friend have enough clout to possible get the program (providing it is accepted, funded and shown)placed on the National hookup for viewing by the entire country, or is the station essentially directed toward local viewing with no National affiliations?

Even if it is of a local nature, if it is successful and overwhelmingly accepted it eventually be copy-cated by other networks within the country. That would be ideal for communities in the interior especially.

Just a few thoughts which come to mind and an encouraging note added.

Let's all "Barnstorm" this idea and see where it leads-----

Texas Bill
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
Texas Bill the cable company we have here is Cablevision del Caribe and I think it only encompasses El Seybo but might also include Miches. I'll have to check it out. My friend pays the cable company RD$5,000 a month to broadcast one hour ( 8 -9 PM) a night 5 days a week. His sponsers are the local merchants here in town and whomever he can get to pay for advertisement. The sponsers have no say as to what is put on the air. If they don't like the programming they will, I guess, pull their support. The name of the program is Buscando Solucions, channel 7, and is geared to the problems we have here in El Seybo and those problems that are country wide are, at times, also mentioned.

My friend had been, and at times still does, mention the ONG's in this country and their waste of the tax payers money through unaccountably. Pisxes a few people off but he doesn't seem to care but he never mentions anyone by name and only uses the name of the ONG. He seems to have no qualms with speaking the truth but as I said he does it without mentioning anyone by their name.

You asked if he would cooperate with individuals to discuss the issues that you mentioned. The answer is yes if there is the possibility that it would help his country. This is a man that too is eager for change within the DR but because he was raised in this culture he really doesn't see a direct way to change anything. He like many Dominicans seems to have that fatalistic view of everything and excepts things as they are and have always been. People such as yourself and I know that with qrganization and effort change can be made to come about with little or no bloodshed. Those examples have been shown throughout history and under all forms of government but especially in a democracy.

Usually my friend invites a number of different people within the community to discuss topics that are important to the person that has been invited. I have never seen him do a contra - con program.

He is a registered college diploma broadcaster belonging to the Prensa and it is possible he has the connections to get a good program placed on the national hookup but I'm not sure. I'll check on it.

As far as getting local educators, religious leaders, political leaders and the like to participate, I think, would depend on someone convincing them that it would help their country. A typical non-functioning politician whose only desire is to get rich would not participate in a discussion that would change the status quo unless he could convince them not to change anything. The same would hold true to a religious leader if the discussion was about saving money by not giving in church.

What is first needed is a group of people to have the "intelligent discussion" mentioned earlier to determine what exactly needs to be said and how to properly say it so that it would make sense to the layman in el campo. The average poor Dominican knows there is a problem but he doesn't know exactly what causes that particular problem and therefore doesn't know exactly what needs to be done to alleviate said problem. If you can come up with a simple descriptive way to explain the cause of a particular problem and exactly what needs to be done to fix it then I think the average Dominican would then be more knowledgeable and if directed as to what he needs to do to fix it is more likely to take the necessary action to bring about change.

I'm willing to do what I can to help educate the populace.

Rick
 

drbill

New member
Dec 3, 2005
358
0
0
cynical vs oblivious

I'm new here, but this converstation is intriguing. Educate the masses to rise up against the ruling class, to establish social equality and opportunity, by carefully and slowly explaining just what their problems are? Is Los Muchachos still open?

drbill
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
drbill how do you consider the conversation to be intriguing? Your being new to this board doesn't give me sufficient information about yourself. Do you live in the DR? If so then which town and for how long? Do you speak Spanish? Just testing the water before I plunge in is all.

Last questions, who is the cynical and who is the oblivious?

Rick
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
For those of you that are interested.

I talked to Alfredo, the broadcaster, today and he likes your idea and is very interested in broadcasting some useful information. He so very much wants his country to prosper. He also has connections so there is the possibility of getting a good program put on national TV. The cable company we have here, Cablevision del Caribe, only serves El Seyo but you need to start somewhere.

Rick
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
936
113
Texas Bill said:
rellosk--

I think your right. The contract was issued as part of the overall authority given the President under the "Wartime Act" or some-such. Personally, I think Halliburton should be required to re-imburse the inflated results.

Don't remember if the case is still before Congress or not. it has been a ig stink, I know THAT!

Texas Bill
There are 2 maybe 3 companies in the US that have the ability to do the scope and magnitude of the work that Haliburton is doing today, not just in Iraq, but around the world. Bechtel is another. I doubt 0.5% of the folks in the US, much less the DR, have a clue as to what Haliburton actually does. They just make a good political whipping boy.

Haliburton had a no-bid contract during the 8 Clinton years, too, as did Bechtel-but I don't hear the constant complaining about Bechtel, and they have every bit as much political horsepower in their boardroom as Haliburton does, if not more. They sort of rotate disasters and wars, for lack of a better description. Folks are either uninformed, or choose to ignore the facts. The Bush/Cheney/Haliburton connection musta helped them score with Bill Clinton, too, back in the 90's.

Has anyone here actually been through a REAL US Gov't. large bidding process? Long, hard, and full of more potholes than a Santo Domingo barrio. There are some instances when you need something done NOW-I mean a bridge rebuilt over an important river tomorrow, or a oil rig righted in the Gulf of Mexico- there just isn't time for a bureaucrat to spec the job, publically post the parameters and requirements for 90 days, receive bids, go through them, ask for clarification and adjustments, tell the contractors the parameters have changed, have bids re-submitted, have a GAO office review them with consultants, have lobbyists get their noses in them, yada yada yada...

Is anyone also aware that Haliburton has been going through the government process to cancel the current contract with the US govt? They are losing their asses (go check the Haliburton Annual Report), and want out.

I, for one, appreciate there are companies like Haliburton who can do the kind of work they do, on the scale they do, and get the job done. I'm no shill, but I understand how both the US government works, and how a big corporation operates. The world is better off for having companies the size and with the intellectual horsepower to tackle the Huge Jobs.
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
drbill said:
I'm new here, but this converstation is intriguing. Educate the masses to rise up against the ruling class, to establish social equality and opportunity, by carefully and slowly explaining just what their problems are? Is Los Muchachos still open?

drbill

No, drbill--Not "educate the masses to rise up against the ruling class", but rather clarify the problems facing the country, offer solutions as to how these problems may be solved, encourage "the masses" to vote for those legislative representatives who will best serve the country instead of serving themselves through corrupt machinations; create a reliable Civil Service which is not filled with nepotic personel and people who do not really work, but merely draw a paycheck.
Create an atmosphere of peaceful resistance to the "trading" of political position merely to remain in power.
Make certain that those who are guilty of "malfeasance in office" receive their "just rewards' through unrelenting investigation of activities and publicising the results of those investigations.
Much has been done, but the surface has only been scratched, to date. There is still plenty of work ahead.
As to Education; change the present ineffective and inefficient system to one that actually transfers knowledge, in depth, of the material being presented and do it with competent instructors.

This country has a long way to go if it is to join the family of nations as an equal member.
That is the true goal in all this.

Texas Bill
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
cobraboy---\\That was WELL SAID.

There were a few things that Halliburton did that weren't exactly "kosher", but, you're right!
It's companies like Haliburton and Bechtel, Brown & Root, etc., that get things done in a hurry because of their tremendous, world wide resources.
Frankly, the world really can't do without them in the construction industry.

I must admit to a bit of over-enthusiasm in my post.

Texas Bill
 

rellosk

Silver
Mar 18, 2002
4,169
58
48
cobraboy said:
They are losing their asses (go check the Haliburton Annual Report), and want out.
There is no way Haliburton is losing money on any government contract! Unless possibly you include the legal fees, fines, etc.