Who can stop this tragedy?

[pedrochemical]

I was about to reply to your response to me... but after this post, I just had to laugh it off...

I wish you and your family the best. (Seriously!)

Thank you for that.

It is not a perfect world - especially on this island.

I am one of the lucky ones - I am in a position to help.
I thank my lucky stars for that.
I do not know how I would feel if I could not help my family when they were in trouble.
That must be a terrible thing.

 

[bienamor]

I hope Haiti keeps the 10 hillbillies from OK & Kansas in Haiti for along time and sets the example for other U.S. citizens....when in a foreign country, you obey the laws of that nation

The 5 from kansas an oklahoma are not hillibillies(no hills) and 5 were from the main church in Idaho. do agree with obeying the laws of the country your in. And I would say set an example for other do-gooders from other countries also.

 

[Berzin]

Religious superstitions don't hold a whole nation back.

I know many financially well-off people right here in the states who believe the silliest crap imaginable, and it never stopped them or their particular tribes from thriving.

Superstition has nothing to do with the low literacy rates in Haiti, or the fact that about 70% of the Haitian capital's population was unemployed before it was destroyed by the earthquake.

If your life was twisted into a pretzel from living such a deprived lifestyle you too would believe all types of crazy shyte. Voodoo isn't the problem, it's high unemployment, high poverty, low wages and no resources to make a better life for yourself. You know-resources like running water.

So the children can run off to school every morning with a nutritious mud cookie for breakfast-

 

[pedrochemical]

Religious superstitions don't hold a whole nation back.

I know many financially well-off people right here in the states who believe the silliest crap imaginable, and it never stopped them or their particular tribes from thriving.

Superstition has nothing to do with the low literacy rates in Haiti, or the fact that about 70% of the Haitian capital's population was unemployed before it was destroyed by the earthquake.

If your life was twisted into a pretzel from living such a deprived lifestyle you too would believe all types of crazy shyte. Voodoo isn't the problem, it's high unemployment, high poverty, low wages and no resources to make a better life for yourself. You know-resources like running water.

So the children can run off to school every morning with a nutritious mud cookie for breakfast-

If you know Haiti, you know that it does contribute to the mess.

Imagine if you are taught all day long that you have no control over your future. You will start to belive this.
If you are taught that your actions will not affect your future and that there is no real authority in this world. You will start to beleive this.

Other than that I agree with what you say.


Do you agree that Islam is holding back much of the middle east?

 

[bob saunders]

Superstition has nothing to do with the low literacy rates in Haiti, or the fact that about 70% of the Haitian capital's population was unemployed before it was destroyed by the earthquake.

If your life was twisted into a pretzel from living such a deprived lifestyle you too would believe all types of crazy shyte. Voodoo isn't the problem, it's high unemployment, high poverty, low wages and no resources to make a better life for yourself. You know-resources like running water.

-IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/t5593k.jpg[/IMG]

No, but the low literacy rates have a great deal to do with people believing in Superstition. Education for all is the largest problem. When you combine Ignorance with corruption you end up with failed states like Haiti. Throw in some natural disasters and apathetic people because of religious beliefs....!

 

[Chirimoya]

I agree that it can be an obstacle to development for several reasons like the abdication of personal responsibility, the belief that destiny is out of one's hands, the acceptance of fate with the expectation of reward in the afterlife, and not least the control of women, but why is this so marked in Haiti compared to other countries where religion is still influential? Like the DR, for example?

While many countries that are in a post-religious phase of development are among the world's most developed, this is not quite the case in one of the most developed of them all, the US.

 

[Chip]

This may not be the most pc thing to say, but is it possible that the vudu beliefs get in the way of the progression of the Haitan people? By all accounts from pedrochem's summary it seems pretty scary to me, not to mention it would seem to promote fatalism and apathy - not something that would want to cause people to think of tomorrow with a lot of hope. If think if I was raised in this environment I would find it to hard get out of bed in the morning.

 

[pedrochemical]

I agree that it can be an obstacle to development for several reasons like the abdication of personal responsibility, the belief that destiny is out of one's hands, the acceptance of fate with the expectation of reward in the afterlife, and not least the control of women, but why is this so marked in Haiti compared to other countries where religion is still influential? Like the DR, for example?

While many countries that are in a post-religious phase of development are among the world's most developed, this is not quite the case in one of the most developed of them all, the US.

Bingo!

A good example - Teach people about evolution and they find creation a less satisfying explanation, generally.

(I must say that one can go too far with this.
Evolution is still just a theory - not 'fact' as the science dudes would have us beleive. But it seems like an excellent theory so far. I would subscribe to it.)

I think the Haitians in Haiti are more susceptible to this problem as they have little else.
The Dominicans seems to be good old fashioned drinking, gambling fornicating christians. Like the Muslims I knew in Africa or the Jews and the protestants in the U.K.
As such they do not let their religion interfere with their life too much.

If this is the case, we have a chicken and egg situation in Haiti.
How do we fix it? Bugger knows!
Maybe if they had some alternative support systems they would rely less on the superstitions. Stuff like jobs, education, sports fields, music schools, swimming pools etc. Not just the essentials but the frivilous stuff.

As an Irishman once told a tourist -

How do you get to Killkenny, you ask?
Well to be sure, you wouldn't start from here!

 

[Ezequiel]

Well fortunately for all concerned, you do not have a say in this.

1.As a Dominican citizen I do have a say, that's why load of people are deported every year, because citizen like me complain to the authority

Just leave them all there to die? Very classy!

I didn't say leave them all there to die, that's their country, help them in their own country.

The kids I brought were family.

The post was NOT about your family, that's way I mention the American Weirdo using the DR as a trampoline (as religion or religious institution can't be mention here or DR1) the last time I check you were British.

 

[Chirimoya]

The only time I came face to face with that sort of superstition was when I was interviewing a young woman at a health centre in a Port-au-Prince slum - I asked her what her hopes and fears for the future were and she said that her greatest fear was "that someone would put a curse on her".

 

[pedrochemical]

This may not be the most pc thing to say, but is it possible that the vudu beliefs get in the way of the progression of the Haitan people? By all accounts from pedrochem's summary it seems pretty scary to me, not to mention it would seem to promote fatalism and apathy - not something that would want to cause people to think of tomorrow with a lot of hope. If think if I was raised in this environment I would find it to hard get out of bed in the morning.

Interestingly enough - there are plenty pf people (like myself) who will happily criticise the church in Haiti but I always feel on dodgy ground when criticising Voudou. Onbe is viewed as religion, the other more as culture.
This is of course silly.

For example, when the misses showed me a photo of her standing over a goat dressed in a bowler hat smoking a cigar (the goat, not the misses!!) ready to cut its throat - I felt like an 18th century anthropologist scoffing at the savage natives.

That is the thing about all these superstitions - they are scary.
They are supposed to be. Otherwise nobody would bother with them.

Also, you must understand that in Haiti, becoming a politician or a priest (of whatever cult) guarantees a certain status and standard of living. No wonder people aspire to this, it can be a way out of poverty that education simply does not provide at the moment.

 

[pedrochemical]

1.As a Dominican citizen I do have a say, that's why load of people are deported every year, because citizen like me complain to the authority

I didn't say leave them all there to die, that's their country, help them in their own country.

The post was NOT about your family, that's way I mention the American Weirdo using the DR as a trampoline (as religion or religious institution can't be mention here or DR1) the last time I check you were British.

Yes I am British.
Why would that be relevant - please explain.

And you can complain all you want - I ain't going anywhere!!

 

[ExtremeR]

I agree with Chip, I have not seen the first country which practices brujeria widespread in good shape. Haiti, Cuba, Half of Africa, The southwest of the DR. The bad thing about brujeria's religion (if that should be called religion) is that the main goal of those religion is to wish wrong doing for the others in order to benefit oneself. While it is up to debate to believe if curses or brujeria are real or not (I for instance believe it's real, seen it with my own eyes), the mentality across the population following that religion is a selfish and heartless one bringing the whole society to the ground.

PS. Not saying that THIS disgrace was the Haitian's faults because of voodoo, earthquakes happens all over the world, I'm takling about the previous state before the earthquake.

 

[Lambada]

What happened to the kids in the end?

They're in an SOS Children's Village orphanage in Haiti. 'The children, ages 2 months to 12 years old, were taken to an orphanage run by Austrian-based SOS Children's Villages, where spokesman George Willeit said they arrived "very hungry, very thirsty." A 2- to 3-month old baby was dehydrated and had to be hospitalized, he said. An orphanage worker held and caressed another, older baby, who was feverish and looked disoriented.

"One (8-year-old) girl was crying, and saying, 'I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.' And she thought she was going on a summer camp or a boarding school or something like that," Willeit said. The orphanage was working to reunite the children with their families, joining a concerted effort by the Haitian government, the United Nations, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other NGOs.'
Baptists say they were trying to do good in Haiti

'George Willeit of SOS Children's Villages -- who said that Haitian police and the social ministry brought the children to his group -- said some of the children have living relatives.

"Some of them for sure are not orphans," he told CNN. "Immediately after she arrived here, a girl -- she might be 9 years old -- was crying loudly, 'I am not an orphan, I do have my parents, please call my parents,' " he said. And some of the other kids as well, they have their phone numbers, even, with them from their parents," he said. He said he believes that at least 10 are not orphans.
Detained Americans say they had good intentions in Haiti

'George Willeit, a spokesman for the Austrian-run orphanage, said they had talked to one little girl and she told them that she had parents. "We talked to the little girl, maybe nine," Mr Willeit said. "And she told us, crying, that she does have parents. She says she thought she was being sent to boarding school or to summer camp." Suddenly a bunch of misguided, but well-intentioned Americans, are now not looking nearly so well-intentioned after all.'
Haiti 'orphans' case: Misunderstanding or kidnap?

 

[pedrochemical]

They're in an SOS Children's Village orphanage in Haiti. 'The children, ages 2 months to 12 years old, were taken to an orphanage run by Austrian-based SOS Children's Villages, where spokesman George Willeit said they arrived "very hungry, very thirsty." A 2- to 3-month old baby was dehydrated and had to be hospitalized, he said. An orphanage worker held and caressed another, older baby, who was feverish and looked disoriented.

"One (8-year-old) girl was crying, and saying, 'I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.' And she thought she was going on a summer camp or a boarding school or something like that," Willeit said. The orphanage was working to reunite the children with their families, joining a concerted effort by the Haitian government, the United Nations, the International Committee of the Red Cross and other NGOs.'
Baptists say they were trying to do good in Haiti

'George Willeit of SOS Children's Villages -- who said that Haitian police and the social ministry brought the children to his group -- said some of the children have living relatives.

"Some of them for sure are not orphans," he told CNN. "Immediately after she arrived here, a girl -- she might be 9 years old -- was crying loudly, 'I am not an orphan, I do have my parents, please call my parents,' " he said. And some of the other kids as well, they have their phone numbers, even, with them from their parents," he said. He said he believes that at least 10 are not orphans.
Detained Americans say they had good intentions in Haiti

'George Willeit, a spokesman for the Austrian-run orphanage, said they had talked to one little girl and she told them that she had parents. "We talked to the little girl, maybe nine," Mr Willeit said. "And she told us, crying, that she does have parents. She says she thought she was being sent to boarding school or to summer camp." Suddenly a bunch of misguided, but well-intentioned Americans, are now not looking nearly so well-intentioned after all.'
Haiti 'orphans' case: Misunderstanding or kidnap?

Thanks for that.
I hope they are all OK and things turn out for the best - for everyone concerned.

 

[paddy]

Here's another "cretin" that was arrested in Haiti...if the goverment is truly intent on puttinfg the brakes on this ongoing problem in Haiti AND the DR make it ba capital crime to sexually abuse ot traffic in children.Man charged with abusing Haitian boys faces more counts - CNN.com

 

[Chip]

It has been reported in other sources that many children in Haitian orphanages are not actually orphans. It appears many are placed there by parents who feel they can't take care of them. Also, there are many more now in the orphanages that are there because they have been separated from their parents. I'm sure many of the kids think their parents are still alive when that isn't the case.

In other words, I don't think people should be espousing that these missionaries are anything but are guilty of only trying to do something good, albeit illegal.

 

[Ken]

This is still getting a big play on CNN. Long piece this morning that included an interview with director of the shelter where children presently are who said that at least some of the children still had at least one parent. Also interviewed was a little girl who said she was crying, saying she was not an orphan, and trying to get off the bus and go home to her mother, but was forced to stay.

My personal feeling is that these children and others should not be taken out of Haiti. Rather, groups interested in helping them should provide facilities and staff in Haiti where the orphaned and abandoned children can get could care, including schooling. Children are the future of Haiti and should remain in the country and prepared for the day their generation will be holding jobs and making decisions.

 

[? bient?t]

Poor kids

From a Brazilian forum:

"Religion is like porn: if you like it, it's OK, but keep it private and PLEASE don't involve children!"

 

[Chip]

This is still getting a big play on CNN. Long piece this morning that included an interview with director of the shelter where children presently are who said that at least some of the children still had at least one parent. Also interviewed was a little girl who said she was crying, saying she was not an orphan, and trying to get off the bus and go home to her mother, but was forced to stay.

My personal feeling is that these children and others should not be taken out of Haiti. Rather, groups interested in helping them should provide facilities and staff in Haiti where the orphaned and abandoned children can get could care, including schooling. Children are the future of Haiti and should remain in the country and prepared for the day their generation will be holding jobs and making decisions.

I guess some of you just can't get it. Apparently, many kids in Haiti are placed in orphanages because their parents can't take care of them.

Furthermore, what kid with parents would say they have no parents and want to stay in the orphanage????