- Thread starter Gabriela
- Start date
Who can stop this tragedy?
Yep, those where my questions. I m tired of overly sanctimonious "missionaries" perpetrating a fraud. I saw them on the ABC newscast today behind bars in the with a padlock on the cell. HAHA! **** 'em! They were kidnapping those children, even if they got the parents permission. The reporter went the the village and asked the relatives if they knew the children were with the white people. They bought the ploy just like any illiterate rube. If you "sell" me your child for this magic bag of beans, I will make sure she receives an education and gets a better future. Hardy har har! Says who? No one ever said smoking could give you cancer. They told you it will make you cool and sophisticated. I give you 200 pesos and a 20lb bag of rice and you give me your child to send someplace to be a sex slave. If you re a real missionary then why not make your mission there where those kids came from? Why send them to the other side of the island? Why not do your "good works" there in Haiti? And what bunch of idiots thinks you can just mosy into another country with a truck full of kids like they dont belong to no 1? With no docs? How do you even know the people you bought the children from are the family? No docs? Birth certificate? Do you even know the childrens names?
E
ElRayoX
Guest
C'mon people...
Please stop painting Americans with your broad stroke of negativity.
It is clear that caring people/organization spent their own money to come and provide relief. They went through the trouble of documenting the children and securing permission from the DR. (I do find it interesting that part of the DR "clearance" process does not involve making sure that the "other" country permits exit, but that's not the point of the thread.) So to insinuate that they were trafficking children for prostitution or sucking stem cells out of their bodies is ludicrous.
And as I read through all of this basura, all I could think about was: were it not by the grace of (insert deity here), this quake could have occured in Santo Domingo. Who would the Dominicans turn to for help? Haiti?
And the ultimate irony is that Pedrochemical is noble in his illegal efforts (and I truly believe this myself), but these religous-driven individuals are not. Hypocrisy at its best on DR1.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled BS.
Please stop painting Americans with your broad stroke of negativity.
It is clear that caring people/organization spent their own money to come and provide relief. They went through the trouble of documenting the children and securing permission from the DR. (I do find it interesting that part of the DR "clearance" process does not involve making sure that the "other" country permits exit, but that's not the point of the thread.) So to insinuate that they were trafficking children for prostitution or sucking stem cells out of their bodies is ludicrous.
And as I read through all of this basura, all I could think about was: were it not by the grace of (insert deity here), this quake could have occured in Santo Domingo. Who would the Dominicans turn to for help? Haiti?
And the ultimate irony is that Pedrochemical is noble in his illegal efforts (and I truly believe this myself), but these religous-driven individuals are not. Hypocrisy at its best on DR1.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled BS.
They got painted with the brush and paint they themselves provided. They had permission from the DR to bring children in, but no paperwork or permission from where they needed it the most. I'm sure that the majoriy posting don't believe they were trafficing in children, for the purposes of organ donation or as sex slaves, but they were still acting above the law.
For those who don't understand Spanish, this article talks about a Haitian mother who willingly handed 5 of her children over to the American pastor because she understood they would have a better life. Of course she changes her mind later, but that is not either here no there.
This is what other articles had stated was common in Haiti even before the earthquake; parents give their children to orphanages because they feel like they can't take care of them well enough.
They weren't orphans
This is my first post on this site. I have been reading and visiting dr1.com for over a year now and currently live in the DR.
These Christians went to get orphans and were stopped at the border with 33 children. What I read on cnn.com is that these children were not orphans. Seems odd to me. Many of the parents that these Christians spoke with prior to taking their children, want their kids back. Cnn.com even went on to say that some of the kids were crying to go back home.
Detained Americans say they had good intentions in Haiti - CNN.com
This is my first post on this site. I have been reading and visiting dr1.com for over a year now and currently live in the DR.
These Christians went to get orphans and were stopped at the border with 33 children. What I read on cnn.com is that these children were not orphans. Seems odd to me. Many of the parents that these Christians spoke with prior to taking their children, want their kids back. Cnn.com even went on to say that some of the kids were crying to go back home.
Detained Americans say they had good intentions in Haiti - CNN.com
Couple of things -
I am sure they were well intentioned - like the hapless fool who burned down the house trying to put out the deep fat fryer fire with a bucket of water- if you do bad stuff then good intentions are irrelevant. Like the kid who cooked his kitty in the microwave as he thought it was cold etc....
If they were trying to help these kids they should have helped the families directly.
What these kids and many kids like them are missing is money for schooling, decent accommodation, probably medical attention and decent nutrition and hope of becoming successful Haitians. This is what their parents and guardians feel they cannot give them.
What they were not missing was love. You can see this clearly from the interviews with the parents.
This help is far more effective delivered in country for several reasons.
For the cost of 10 or more return tickets to the D.R. , the hiring of a bus and fuel etc, the lease of a hotel and sustaining these kids for the next 10 - 15 years in one of the most expensive area of the D.R., these people could have done (hopefully will still do) some real good IN HAITI .
Buy them school uniforms, books, install some toilets, dig a well, buy some toys, clothes, schooling materials - whatever. But if you are doing it for Haitians who live in Haiti - do it in Haiti like everybody else.
If Haiti offends your sensibilities so much that you can't stand living there (and I must say it is not the first place I would have chosen to live if circumstances had been different) then give the money to somebody who has the capacity to do the good work on site.
This is well trodden ground. You do not have to reinvent the wheel.
I agree these people were not evil. They were just incredibly stupid. The law is not there just to stop people with evil intent - it is there largely to prevent peoples' stupidity damaging the lives of other people around them.
IF YOU ARE INTERFERING IN THE LIVES OF CHILDREN THEN YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO DO IT RESPONSIBLY . THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
Just look at the situation. You have English speaking adults taking Creole speaking kids to a Spanish speaking country that has its own poverty issues.
Does this not strike you all as troubled?
(Pa mande mwen si m pale creol, paske, oui, mwen capab pale creol ak 'tit moun mwe, messi. Pa gen pwoblem!)
What they were trying to do for these 33 kids (give them a better life) they could have done for 200 kids in Haiti without breaking up families.
As for being noble - that will make people who know me laugh out loud!
Mainly, I have to sleep at night.
Plus I know when it happens the other way round they will do the same for me and my family.
And for the record, I do not think these people should be locked up in a Haitian jail for any length of time. They should be sent back to the US with their tails between their legs.
This whole episode will hopefully serve to convince people that you do not ride roughshod over the laws and lives of people in foreign countries.
P.S. I spoke to a lawyer who now has the paperwork in process for the kids.
It turns out I am not the only one who has done this recently so all you armchair warriors can rest assured that there are no more illegal immigrants here due to my "hypocrisy", "arrogance" or whatever else I was accused of on this thread.
I am sure they were well intentioned - like the hapless fool who burned down the house trying to put out the deep fat fryer fire with a bucket of water- if you do bad stuff then good intentions are irrelevant. Like the kid who cooked his kitty in the microwave as he thought it was cold etc....
If they were trying to help these kids they should have helped the families directly.
What these kids and many kids like them are missing is money for schooling, decent accommodation, probably medical attention and decent nutrition and hope of becoming successful Haitians. This is what their parents and guardians feel they cannot give them.
What they were not missing was love. You can see this clearly from the interviews with the parents.
This help is far more effective delivered in country for several reasons.
For the cost of 10 or more return tickets to the D.R. , the hiring of a bus and fuel etc, the lease of a hotel and sustaining these kids for the next 10 - 15 years in one of the most expensive area of the D.R., these people could have done (hopefully will still do) some real good IN HAITI .
Buy them school uniforms, books, install some toilets, dig a well, buy some toys, clothes, schooling materials - whatever. But if you are doing it for Haitians who live in Haiti - do it in Haiti like everybody else.
If Haiti offends your sensibilities so much that you can't stand living there (and I must say it is not the first place I would have chosen to live if circumstances had been different) then give the money to somebody who has the capacity to do the good work on site.
This is well trodden ground. You do not have to reinvent the wheel.
I agree these people were not evil. They were just incredibly stupid. The law is not there just to stop people with evil intent - it is there largely to prevent peoples' stupidity damaging the lives of other people around them.
IF YOU ARE INTERFERING IN THE LIVES OF CHILDREN THEN YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO DO IT RESPONSIBLY . THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
Just look at the situation. You have English speaking adults taking Creole speaking kids to a Spanish speaking country that has its own poverty issues.
Does this not strike you all as troubled?
(Pa mande mwen si m pale creol, paske, oui, mwen capab pale creol ak 'tit moun mwe, messi. Pa gen pwoblem!)
What they were trying to do for these 33 kids (give them a better life) they could have done for 200 kids in Haiti without breaking up families.
As for being noble - that will make people who know me laugh out loud!
Mainly, I have to sleep at night.
Plus I know when it happens the other way round they will do the same for me and my family.
And for the record, I do not think these people should be locked up in a Haitian jail for any length of time. They should be sent back to the US with their tails between their legs.
This whole episode will hopefully serve to convince people that you do not ride roughshod over the laws and lives of people in foreign countries.
P.S. I spoke to a lawyer who now has the paperwork in process for the kids.
It turns out I am not the only one who has done this recently so all you armchair warriors can rest assured that there are no more illegal immigrants here due to my "hypocrisy", "arrogance" or whatever else I was accused of on this thread.
This is something that has been troubling me.
Allegedly, they did not know these kids prior to rolling up in Haiti.
So how could they have "documented" and secured permission for these kids in the D.R.?
To document the kids they would have had to have known exactly who they were going to ship out of Haiti before they entered Haiti with the relevant Dominican paperwork - which they claim they had.
Or did they just have the Dominican authorities sanction the importation of 33 generic kids - whoever they happened to find on the day?
A bit weird that.
Perhaps I am missing the obvious - probably need more coffee.
P.S. Does anybody know where I would find a Creole speaking trauma counselor?
I still think everyone is missing the real point. Whether these people were good or bad, the kids they took were not orphans. Hence the purpose of their "mission", was to rescue orphans, not take children from parents who were already doing their best to care of their children. What about rescuing the real orphans that are in Haiti, you know the ones with no one. I am sure there are plenty of orphans in Haiti, especially now. Something about what these people were doing raised eyebrows. Who knows, but whatever they were doing, mission failed, because these were not orphans.
Just to reinforce this: part of doing it responsibly is informing oneself about all the various international codes of conduct and agreements which exist and following what is good practice. For example, any team thinking about doing what the missionaries did should be aware of
United Nations: Guidelines for the Alternative Care of Children
Clause 159 'Children in emergency situations should not be moved to a country other than that of their habitual residence for alternative care except temporarily for compelling health, medical or safety reasons. In that case, this should be as close as possible to their home, they should be
accompanied by a parent or caregiver known to the child, and a clear return plan should be established.' (emboldening mine).
The guidelines in a range of languages are accessible here:
Human Rights Documents
I think I recall the UN or UNICEF advising no out of country adoptions for a period of 2 years after a major disaster - this to give time to locate members of the extended family willing to care for children.
There are some interesting articles on the website of the organisation currently caring for the children which the American missionaries had gathered.
"I am no orphan" says 8 year old transportee
Earthquake orphan appeal: Do not adopt earthquake orphans
Haiti child trafficking case: where the blame lies!
Full list of articles here:
This is a collection of news articles about SOS Children's response to the 2010 Haiti Earthquake.
Maybe we should implement a program that send Dominican policemen to Haiti to get trained.
with all due respect to SOS which may be a wonderful organization..... before the quake we had an estimated 300,000 children living in what is called restavek situations,... now recognized as child slavery...
these children have been given over.. or sold... to wealthier families and for the most part do not go to school and do the labor for the rest of the family.
so i do not think it untoward that the media estimated a million orphans... given that we now have a minimum of 400,000 refugees or internally displaced persons..
OBVIOUSLY though... it is absurd to just go running in and take whatever child you find on the streets...clearly mad....
The International Committee of the Red Cross has a link called Find Families... on which ... hopefully... all the children will eventually be listed so that ALL of their family members can find them.
It should be remembered that 3 million Haitians live OUTSIDE of Haiti.... and many of these children may well have aunts and uncles who will take them in.. or at least try to provide for them in some way.
Not my words but I agree: What makes this idiots think they can just get up and go to a country with the infrastructure in shambles and a different language and have any hope of doing the right thing. They should spend some time in jail for therir own protection, until they realize they are idiots and it is not they who were misunderstood but they are the ones who misunderstood !!!!!!
i find it ironic the haitian government has time to spend on this issue for a few kids compared to everything else over there which is in shambles for millions of people.