your accent matters

[dv8]

rather interesting article in diario libre about how accent changes the way people are perceived. it relates a study that found the european spanish is associated with better education and financial situation of the speaker while cuban and colombian spanish speakers were associated with lower income and more menial jobs.

https://www.diariolibre.com/mundo/l...-espanol-y-te-dire-como-te-perciben-FA9301799

 

[windeguy]

Similar to those who think they speak French and don't in a certain Northeast section of North America , or a US Southern accent versus a neutral American English accent.

 

[Russell]

Similar to those who think they speak French and don't in a certain Northeast section of North America , or a US Southern accent versus a neutral American English accent.

OUCH!
There are many different accents of 'French' in Eastern Canada.
The Quebecois has a distinct French as does almost every single Acadian Village.. The language in my Village is much different than the Acadian village an hour away. Then we have the Newfoundland and Labrador Acadian French...

To compare Acadian french with Paris is to revert to french about 500 years ago.
So the variances of accents in any language it quite right and depends upon the Region,cultural influences, isolation and Education.

 

[Marianopolita]

rather interesting article in diario libre about how accent changes the way people are perceived. it relates a study that found the european spanish is associated with better education and financial situation of the speaker while cuban and colombian spanish speakers were associated with lower income and more menial jobs.

https://www.diariolibre.com/mundo/l...-espanol-y-te-dire-como-te-perciben-FA9301799

The study is not thorough enough in my opinion after reading the article. The last three paragraphs have the most valid points. Many Spanish speakers are taught in a subtle way and in some cases a not so subtle way to idolize Spain and this includes the spoken language. Colonialism plays a role in this. 

The study fails on many fronts. First all anyone who has spent even a minimum amount of time in Miami knows that the dominant Spanish there is Caribbean Spanish and specifically Cuban. The study compares two variations of Latin American Spanish to Spain. That is a small scope! 

In my opinion, education is a huge factor when it comes to accents and the spoken language. If you are native of xxx land you will naturally have some features of the vernacular speech of that region. However, the higher the level of education the higher chance of the accent of the speaker being less typical of the region. The concept of Spanish from Spain being better is alive and well but there are so many factors that influence Spanish spoken in Spain vs Latin America.

I find most of these studies confirm the perception that is out there but exclude key factors such as analyzing the spoken language that was brought to Cuba or Latin America in the first place and mix in the existing languages of the natives and add the African element and of course it will never sound like Spanish from Spain. An educated Cuban and Colombian speak just as well as an educated Spaniard. That is not difficult to notice. These studies although have some truth really reveal what they want them to reveal for whatever purpose. 

In terms of accents in Spanish, I have my preferred and Spain is not one of the them. I have had so much and too much exposure to Spanish to believe that Spanish from Spain exclusively is the best sounding. Education rules and having said that there is a lot good Spanish in the Spanish-speaking world. South America alone deserves its own study.


-MP.

 

[cavok]

I lived in Miami for 17 years in an area that was mostly all Cubans and Nicaraguans. If the panel in this study associated Cubans and Colombians with lower and more menial jobs, I'd hate to think what their opinion would be of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans!

 

[Marianopolita]

I have came through UK's most distinguished accent like Scottish English accent and Geordie accent which is interesting...

You said I have came... Please confirm this is an early morning joke. 

You say UK’s most distinguished accent but not the most distinguished grammar.



 -MP.

 

[IslandDreaming]

rather interesting article in diario libre about how accent changes the way people are perceived. it relates a study that found the european spanish is associated with better education and financial situation of the speaker while cuban and colombian spanish speakers were associated with lower income and more menial jobs.

https://www.diariolibre.com/mundo/l...-espanol-y-te-dire-como-te-perciben-FA9301799

Not spanish related but to Deviates post No idea if anyone watches "survivor" but I stumbled upon it's new season intro last night One kid is a Hillbilly from Eastern Kentucky and he sounds it, likley his accent will classify him as an "ignorant hick"

I think the regional "labeling" of any accent is common

 

[Marianopolita]

I lived in Miami for 17 years in an area that was mostly all Cubans and Nicaraguans. If the panel in this study associated Cubans and Colombians with lower and more menial jobs, I'd hate to think what their opinion would be of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans!

Seventeen years in Miami. That is a long time. Other than the crime and the extreme steamy heat I would enjoy that. Anyone in the USA who is looking to become fluent in Spanish does not need to go abroad. Miami is 75% Latin approx and the language immersion is real. This study critiques Cubans and Colombians because they don’t sound like Spaniards. Big deal! They would stand out anyway in Miami with an accent from Spain and not everyone is pro Spanish from Spain. The study should focus on grammar. In my opinion, that is important combined with the accent. Someone who has poor grammar but has an accent from Spain automatically is placed in a higher class? Unbelievable.

I thought the same after reading the article. What would they say about DR and PR Spanish? I could imagine. Both countries with a vernacular very different from what is considered standard and certainly not the most easy Spanish for the untrained ear. I have heard a range of Spanish in Miami and there is definitely a unique language culture and amalgam of all Latin accents. I will embrace it first any day before I critique it.  



-MP.

 

[2dlight]

Many years ago, when I lived in Washington Heights, there was a young Dominican Dj on a Spanish radio station who attempted to speak like a Spaniard. His lack of understanding of when to use the "s","c", or "z" was a source of entertainment, laughter and embarrassment for the large Dominican population there. When I took Spanish in J.H.S and H.S, I chose not to bother with the mental gymnastics of s, c and z, except to pass the classes. Now that I live in the DR full-time I'm often told that I have no accent even though I think I do.

 

[Marianopolita]

Many years ago, when I lived in Washington Heights, there was a young Dominican Dj on a Spanish radio station who attempted to speak like a Spaniard. His lack of understanding of when to use the "s","c", or "z" was a source of entertainment, laughter and embarrassment for the large Dominican population there. When I took Spanish in J.H.S and H.S, I chose not to bother with the mental gymnastics of s, c and z, except to pass the classes. Now that I live in the DR full-time I'm often told that I have no accent even though I think I do.

That is a classic example of ignorance but all too common place. Instead of just speaking Spanish to the best of his ability within his knowledge range of the language he went out of his borders trying to sound better than the rest in his mind. The end result was worse than how he normally sounded. The irony is he did not realize people and his listeners accepted the way he speaks. If he spoke like a Dominican no one was expecting anything else.

Once again why did he think speaking like a Spaniard would give him status? I will gladly answer. It is because of the subtle indoctrination that ‘we’ Spanish speakers hear in so many ways. Pero tú hablas bien. Hablas como los españoles. If you constantly hear that you will start to think the only good Spanish out there is from Spain. However, once again that is only the thought of the lesser educated because anyone who has knowledge and speaks well knows it is not the place that makes you speak well, it is the education opportunity and your surroundings meaning the people around you. If the vast majority of people around you speak well there is a high probability you will also because that good speech is the standard that you hear constantly.


What kind of accent do people say you don’t have? The foreigner as in gringo accent? From your posts in Spanish that I exchanged with you shows a good command of the language. I imagine your speech to be the same.


-MP.

 

[Lucifer]

Education, say you?

Well, well, well...

There's is the case of Dr. Ernesto Fadul, who hails from Santiago but attended medical school in Spain, yet pronounces capitaL as capitaR, and veintiséis as veintiseR.

Dr. Fadul is a well known critic of the current administration, as well as a noted historian.

 

[Marianopolita]

Education, say you?

Well, well, well...

There's is the case of Dr. Ernesto Fadul, who hails from Santiago but attended medical school in Spain, yet pronounces capitaL as capitaR, and veintiséis as veintiseR.

Dr. Fadul is a well known critic of the current administration, as well as a noted historian.

Yes, I do say education. So he learned to speak before he attended medical school right? From Santiago, Cibao so his speech is quite local. No amount education is going change that unless he does not want to speak that way he would make the effort to change but his speech has nothing to do with Med school education. He will speak that way hasta la tumba.

Cibao speech pattern passes in the DR but raises eyebrows everywhere else.


-MP.

 

[Lucifer]

But in Santiago and the rest of Cibao region, capitaL would be capitai, not capitaR, as he would sound if he was from Baní.

 

[Marianopolita]

But in Santiago and the rest of Cibao region, capitaL would be capitai, not capitaR, as he would sound if he was from Baní.

Entonces pregúntale a él por qué habla así.

Maybe he lived in the South of DR.


 -MP.

 

[Fulano2]

He might think they are more educated in the south.

 

[2dlight]

Spanish speakers here tell me I don't sound Dominican and the few people with whom I speak English here, tell me I speak English well and without an American accent, after I tell them I'm Dominican. Kids I talk to tell me I'm Venezuelan or Puerto Rican. I was married to a Puerto Rican for 40 years but I don't say "cajo" instead of carro, nor "Ay bendito!". No offense to any Puerto Ricans on the forum. I love PR.

 

[cobraboy]

or a US Southern accent versus a neutral American English accent.

"Neutral Americans" are just jealous of our genteel southern drawl...

"It's a raaahght naaahce naaahght fer a knaaahfe faaahght..."

 

[Marianopolita]

Spanish speakers here tell me I don't sound Dominican and the few people with whom I speak English here, tell me I speak English well and without an American accent, after I tell them I'm Dominican. Kids I talk to tell me I'm Venezuelan or Puerto Rican. I was married to a Puerto Rican for 40 years but I don't say "cajo" instead of carro, nor "Ay bendito!". No offense to any Puerto Ricans on the forum. I love PR.

I get the feeling that you speak well. Not having an American accent in English is a good thing in my opinion while still sounding Latin in Spanish. You have the best of both worlds. I think people like you (at the time when living in NY) and my case as well when you live outside of the Spanish-speaking world keeping your accent uncorrupted as a colleague of mine calls it is difficult. I have a friend that says to me all the time cuando hablo contigo me siento costeño. He is Colombian. In Panama whenever I visit and I have to ask a question that indicates I don't live there the reaction is always ah pero hablas como nosotros. So that is a good thing.

Ay bendito is uniquely Puerto Rican and a dead away if a person is having trouble identifying the accent. I use it purposely when I want to sound unique but it is not natural to me at all therefore not often. Did you notice Puerto Ricans from the south of PR sound like Dominicans from the south of DR? I think it is a classic example of linguistic drift.

What about nene, lo nene as Puerto Ricans say? You will never hear a Puerto Rican say los niños or las niñas. Did you pick that up over the years?



-MP.

 

[CristoRey]

"Neutral Americans" are just jealous of our genteel southern drawl...

"It's a raaahght naaahce naaahght fer a knaaahfe faaahght..."

Sho izzz

 

[Marianopolita]

Sho izzz

Getting back to the article and Spanish accents... what do you think about the article?

That is what the thread is about.


-MP.