Everything in Sosua Completely Dead?????????

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Bronxboy

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cobraboy

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first of all, i have never set myself up as a member of the monger lifestyle. that is a fabrication typical of you, to make yourself feel important by putting others down. secondly, i am not a hypocrite. you youself used to patronize prostitutes, but since you purportedly have stopped, those who do are targets of your calumny. i will not debate this issue with you, because rather than getting into yet one more round of personal attacks with you, i want to see numbers, something you cannot produce. "nightlife", the actual spend on prostitute services, is an unknown, because it is a part of the informal economy, and, as such, cannot accurately be calculated from GDP. secondly, mongering does not simply include the actual fees of the prostitute. it includes villa and hotel rentals, food and beverage, transportation, and shopping, just like the non mongers do. as i said before, and i maintain forever, absent an exit survey about who availed themselves of the services of a prostitute, and who did not, these figures reduced to decimal points are worth absolutely nothing.
Blah blah blah.

Many models are constructed without your oh-so-important survey, gorgon. You've never constructed one so you have no idea.

I understand your staunch defense. No problem.

Fact is the DR gubmint produced THEIR numbers, not me. Mine were 5 times as large.

Fact is prostitution is going no where. It's a matter of "where" it will be.

Most every city-not just the DR-has "issues" with prostitution. Not so much in and of itself, but *where* it congregates. Yes, you hassle the hookers and they move on, just like clockwork. But eventually they move on to where the local politicians get less public flack.

A good example is my hometown of Tampa. There is a most excellent amusement park/zoo there called Busch Gardens. Back in The Day Busch Gardens was in a fine neighborhood several blocks off I-75 and was a major tourist attraction for many years, and an entire support industry surrounded, hotels, restaurants, gift shops, putt-putt courses and smaller recreational venues, etc.

But over time the neighborhood cratered, went "urban", and drugs, streetwalkers, gang-bangers, crime, vandalism, drive-bys, cheap strip clubs, pawn shops, massage parlors, fleabag hotels, etc. Busch Garden attendance went down and many wondered if it could survive. There were many documented stories of car jackings, car theft, assaults, rapes, burglaries, home invasions, you name it...all affecting Busch Gardens attendance. So the City and County fathers got together in a prolonged crack down of the area. Of course some locals-those who moved in when other citizens fled for their safety and property-complained because of the constant "harassment" of their innocent, special snowflakes. Yes, strip club aficionados complained about the strict enforcement of the "6 foot rule" that was more enforced there vs. other areas.

It took a good two years of constant work to "reclaim" the surrounding area-as well as the Univ. of So. FL area, but now attendance is back up and last time I drove down Busch Blvd. it seemed to be a success, with new hotels, restaurants, etc. sprung up and seemed more "family friendly." The residential areas are suffering, but there is progress there.

Similar stories are in most major communities.

It's just not the hooker themselves that are a problem in a tourist area. It's the folks that frequent them and an element that seems to gravitate toward it. Even in the DR, you know that mongers get robbed and assaulted by hookers and their friends, that drugs are in the area, etc.; and it's getting worse. To deny this (even without a survey) is folly.

Seems the DR gubmint doesn't want Sosua to go the way of Boca Chica. I don't see a move to get rid of prostitution at all-and you can't find ONE gubmint dictate or law that does (if they wanted it gone, just make it illegal with some stupid law like other areas; but that's not what is happening). They just want to remove it from certain areas that have tourism development potential. Move it elsewhere as far as I know. They know certain clubs and rub shacks attract that element, so the harassment you're seeing is the same harassment one sees in every city in the US when the political mucky-mucks have had enough and want change.

Seriously: if the hooker bars and rub shacks were in Los Chrimicos do you think there would be any real issue? Do you think mongers wouldn't go to LC? Do you think there wouldn't be hooker-related bars and hotels there? LC has beach access also-not like Sosua, but it's not landlocked either. But LC doesn't have the same tourism development as Sosua.
 

greydread

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Before there was an 'ebonic' phraseology composition there was a part of Hep (40's) culture that used a wink and either 'down low', 'hush-hush' or 'on the Q.T.' to indicate a degree of requisite confidentiality. This cannot be googled. I learned it from watching every 40's era Hollywood production at least a dozen times over 6 decades.
 

cobraboy

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Why can't the Dominican government pull this off? According to the Church Ladies around here they're soooo embarrassed about the open air Punani circus that so-sewer has become. Those poor, pious government officials who are up to their butt cracks in mistresses, condo's, SUV's and foreign bank accounts overflowing with payola will never legitimize and clean up their sex industry because there are too many People making their living off it, all the way to the top.

The People trying to tell you how upper crusty and intolerant of foreigners who don't fit the Disney model that these Dominican high mucky-mucks won't tell you about the "guides" who are sent to the hotel rooms of official guests by them or what the percentage off the top must be included in business plans and public works projects to maintain "friendly relations" with those wonderful examples of humanity. Old high and mighty reformed monger turned expat's also don't like to talk about the fact that those Dominican officials whose rings they're so proud to kiss prefer their playmates young. Some of those Guys would make Caligula blush.
I look forward to some actual documentation of what you claim.

Until then it's just more 'Dread Puffery.
 

greydread

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I look forward to some actual documentation of what you claim.

Until then it's just more 'Dread Puffery.

What would you like documentation of? Which government official arranged for which "models" to entertain which visiting government officials? Which official visits?

Bwaahahaha!

How about which (married) Dominican officials got busted for fathering illegitimate Children with which teenager(s)? Wait for the next time a politician pi$$es off his peers/ political opponents and keep watching the lead stories on D.T. as the stories surface.

You sound like J Edgar denying the existence of organized crime.
 

cobraboy

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What would you like documentation of? Which government official arranged for which "models" to entertain which visiting government officials? Which official visits?.
Surrender noted.

Just more talking out of your Pelosi.

Again.
 
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Here is my analogy of Sosua? where we will consider Sosua as a bar, the government is the owner of the bar, the existing restaurants/bars are the employees, the customers are, well, the customers?

The bar owner has had the bar for many years and it used to operate at full capacity for many years, so the owner accepted any and all business, because money was flowing. In recent years, the customers have declined because they are going to other bars. It is now down to just the regulars, which is enough to pay the bills, but not much more than that. The owner knows that he may never get back to the days of full capacity, but he knows that he should have more business than just the regulars.

First thing the owner does is try to run a few promotions, but any new customers, or customers from the past, do not stay for long because they do not like the crowd that has become the regulars. The bar owner knows there is more business out there than he has for regulars, so he decides that he needs to make some more radical changes, even if it means scaring away some or most of his regulars.

Some of his bar tenders only cater to the regulars, and do not pay much attention to anybody else. The bartender is making great money just from the regulars without having to work too hard, so the bartender is not looking for any change. Even the cook in the kitchen is still making decent money without having to work too hard, therefor does not want any change either. The regulars love having a bar that caters specifically to them, so they obviously do not want any changes. But the owner knows he has to make changes, because just getting by each month is not enough, just not enough good business.

The owner knows that the weekend bartender is popular with the regulars, so he does not want to let that bartender go, but he knows he needs to draw in a different weekend crowd. He switches that bartenders schedule from the weekend nights to the weekday nights. The regulars can still see that bartender, but they have to go in on the weekdays. He replaces the weekend bartending shifts with people with completely different personalities than the old bartender.

Then the owner lets go some of the other staff and replaces them completely. He knows that he will lose some of his regulars due to this, but he accepts the loss for now due to the expectation of greater business later. He then spends a little money changing the d?cor, music, menu, style of the bar. Again, knowing he will lose more of his regulars that are presently there, but still has the expectation of greater business later. The owner knows he needs change to have the potential to even draw the new business customers he needs.

The question is: will the owner make the correct decisions about his employees, d?cor, new menu, etc ? or not? In the process, he may lose his regulars and not draw the new customers he expected. Or the bar may become interesting enough that it is operating at ? capacity and keep a decent amount of the regulars also, which is better than when it was only regulars. It is a risky choice that the bar owner must make.

Sosua seems to be deciding to make changes, because it is not the destination it used to be, especially after it lost so much business to Punta Cana. Will these changes work? I do not think even Sosua knows, except that they decided they need to do something different.

A bar may take a month to renovate (and both the owner and employees make no money during that time), but a town will take years ? can Sosua survive the process or will the process cause too much debt to overcome?
 

the gorgon

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Blah blah blah.

Many models are constructed without your oh-so-important survey, gorgon. You've never constructed one so you have no idea.

I understand your staunch defense. No problem.

Fact is the DR gubmint produced THEIR numbers, not me. Mine were 5 times as large.

Fact is prostitution is going no where. It's a matter of "where" it will be.

Most every city-not just the DR-has "issues" with prostitution. Not so much in and of itself, but *where* it congregates. Yes, you hassle the hookers and they move on, just like clockwork. But eventually they move on to where the local politicians get less public flack.

A good example is my hometown of Tampa. There is a most excellent amusement park/zoo there called Busch Gardens. Back in The Day Busch Gardens was in a fine neighborhood several blocks off I-75 and was a major tourist attraction for many years, and an entire support industry surrounded, hotels, restaurants, gift shops, putt-putt courses and smaller recreational venues, etc.

But over time the neighborhood cratered, went "urban", and drugs, streetwalkers, gang-bangers, crime, vandalism, drive-bys, cheap strip clubs, pawn shops, massage parlors, fleabag hotels, etc. Busch Garden attendance went down and many wondered if it could survive. There were many documented stories of car jackings, car theft, assaults, rapes, burglaries, home invasions, you name it...all affecting Busch Gardens attendance. So the City and County fathers got together in a prolonged crack down of the area. Of course some locals-those who moved in when other citizens fled for their safety and property-complained because of the constant "harassment" of their innocent, special snowflakes. Yes, strip club aficionados complained about the strict enforcement of the "6 foot rule" that was more enforced there vs. other areas.

It took a good two years of constant work to "reclaim" the surrounding area-as well as the Univ. of So. FL area, but now attendance is back up and last time I drove down Busch Blvd. it seemed to be a success, with new hotels, restaurants, etc. sprung up and seemed more "family friendly." The residential areas are suffering, but there is progress there.

Similar stories are in most major communities.

It's just not the hooker themselves that are a problem in a tourist area. It's the folks that frequent them and an element that seems to gravitate toward it. Even in the DR, you know that mongers get robbed and assaulted by hookers and their friends, that drugs are in the area, etc.; and it's getting worse. To deny this (even without a survey) is folly.

Seems the DR gubmint doesn't want Sosua to go the way of Boca Chica. I don't see a move to get rid of prostitution at all-and you can't find ONE gubmint dictate or law that does (if they wanted it gone, just make it illegal with some stupid law like other areas; but that's not what is happening). They just want to remove it from certain areas that have tourism development potential. Move it elsewhere as far as I know. They know certain clubs and rub shacks attract that element, so the harassment you're seeing is the same harassment one sees in every city in the US when the political mucky-mucks have had enough and want change.

Seriously: if the hooker bars and rub shacks were in Los Chrimicos do you think there would be any real issue? Do you think mongers wouldn't go to LC? Do you think there wouldn't be hooker-related bars and hotels there? LC has beach access also-not like Sosua, but it's not landlocked either. But LC doesn't have the same tourism development as Sosua.

this can easily be resolved. i have asked you on numerous occasions to produce your model which derives a known from an unknown. so, in order to establish how smart you are without trying to show how dumb i am, just show me the algebra. it should not be complicated for one so smart as you.

put up, or shut up. show me the formula, and how you arrive at the variables, the proxy variables, and the equation. go to work.
 

cobraboy

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"playing dumb" is only smart if you're in it up to your kiester.
Nice Two-fer: a solid Rage 'Dreading conbined with a Deflection 'Dread.

I didn't ask about corruption. We all know that exists.

My specific request centered on getting paid for their approach to the sex industry, specifically as it relates to this thread about Sosua, the "guides", prostitution, % "off the top" for sex workers in contracts, etc.

Back to 'Dreading for you, 'Dread...
 

cobraboy

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this can easily be resolved. i have asked you on numerous occasions to produce your model which derives a known from an unknown. so, in order to establish how smart you are without trying to show how dumb i am, just show me the algebra. it should not be complicated for one so smart as you.

put up, or shut up. show me the formula, and how you arrive at the variables, the proxy variables, and the equation. go to work.
I did, gorgon. Go back and search.
 

the gorgon

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I did, gorgon. Go back and search.

bull. all you did when i asked for it was to make infantile rejoinders. you have never produced a statistical representation of the number. neither have you explained how you arrive at the base number from which you will extrapolate to arrrive at the figure. as i said, it is time to put up or shut up. if you have the methodology, it should take all of 5 minutes to recreate the equation, describe the logic of the equation, and tell us how the variables interact.

go for it.
 

Africaida

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Let me play dumb here (no economics model with variables and equations pleazzzzze)

They (the government/decision maker) want move the hoes. After all, it s their country, they have a feeling that they/the area can attract more money than it is now.

What is wrong with that ? I'd say let them move the hoes to somewhere else, dick will find them.

What are you guys arguing about ? In simple terms por favor :)
 
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the gorgon

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Let me play dumb here (sorry no economics model pleazzzzze)

They (the government/decision maker) want move the hoes. After all, it s their country, they have a feeling that they/the area can attract more money than it is now.

What is wrong with that ? I' d say let them move the hoes to somewhere else, dick will find them....

What are you guys arguing about ? In simple terms por favor :)

this is a difference of opinion regarding a situation which can have no definitive answer, because it is yet to happen. some of us believe Sosua will suffer economically from a purge of the pros, and some of us do not. i spoke to a lifelong resident and businessman from POP just yesterday, and i asked his opinion regarding the possible outcome in Sosua if all the girls are removed. his response was "it will cease to exist". that may be hyperbolic, but he based that on POP, which he claims took a mortal blow because of the downfall of Long Beach. this is a guy in his 60s, who has lived here all his life, and is from a prominent family in this town. his opinion is just as good as the next guy's.
 

dv8

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What are you guys arguing about ? In simple terms por favor :)

i have to say i am a bit confused about it as well but it seems we have a fraction that prefers to see on pedro clisante disheveled, tired and overweight parents dragging behind their child army and another fraction that prefers to see half nekkid hos with pungent crotch buns. and by the looks of it it can only be either or because families and hos cannot coexist peacefully.
 

the gorgon

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i have to say i am a bit confused about it as well but it seems we have a fraction that prefers to see on pedro clisante disheveled, tired and overweight parents dragging behind their child army and another fraction that prefers to see half nekkid hos with pungent crotch buns. and by the looks of it it can only be either or because families and hos cannot coexist peacefully.

they coexist in Thailand..and other places.
 
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