Purchasing Investment Property in Sasoua (Casa Linda)

[mountainannie]

Mountainannie
You seem to be really pushing las terrenas . I have read that there is a substantial French population there so that is a big reason I would never live there. Where I live in Canada we have enough of that and I can't wait to get away from it

Yes, that is true. There is a large French populaltion. Also a pretty large Italian population. A few Germans, and very few Americans and some Canadians. A fabulous Bulgarian married to an Italian. The expat community there that is established has been there about 25 years. Who is Who.. in terms of who is on the side of the angels or demons is well known.

We know who Interpol is looking for. We know who is dealing cocaine. Some know who the Corsican terrorist is.

The town was built by Europeans, by solid architects and designers.. but lots of them just wanting to make a profit and get out of town. The entire town was built on a swamp.Sewers were an add on. Yes. one does wonder why it is that the French, who have SUCH a beautiful country would build on a swamp, and dig their well there, and then poop there. Ah si.. this is not for them, NON.. THEY will live on the hill. It is for the tourists, the Americans. They will come and pay %55 to 100 a night

The whole town was just eating fish and coconuts before the French and Italians got there.


More and More Dominicans from La Clasa Alta are buying condos there.

So yeah, if you do not like French or Italians.. then avoid Las Terrenas. Stick to Cabarete or Sosua or perhaps check out Bavaro. Las Terrenas is definitely European/

And if you do not like the French, do not Speak French, do not understand French and would rather that French just leave the Earth.. well.. yeah, not for you.

In Las Terrenas we have observed that only tourist who is more culturally naive than an American is a Canadian.

I did not move here to live among English speakers.

If you look at the prices for the condos in LT versus the prices vs the prices in any of the towns in the North Coast you will simply see the truth of what I am saying.

Las Terrenas is a good investment.

Prices are high and going higher.

But you have to be very careful about what you buy.

As a vacation destination, I believe that LT has a great deal more to offer than any other place in the country. Bar None.

 

[mountainannie]

The other thing that you may NOT know is that Sosua is reputed to be simply a whoring destination. Yes, they are trying to change that.. But La Classa Alta Dominicana will NOT be investing there.

It will always be what it is. Classa Media Bajo.

See the LT Villa Rentals. here Vacation homes for rent in Las Terrenas, Samana, Dominican Republic

At the development in Sosua, your villa will be up against hundreds just like it. NOT on the beach. Not near the charming French, Italian, German restuarants, the super great discoteques, the gorgeous beach.

Your guests will have to have a car, I would think?

Anyway.. It would not be my choice, as I have said.

Las Terrenas properties have doubled, tripled, even quadroupled since I first started watching them

You could buy a condo apartment in Colibri Hotel for $50k. Now there are simply none that come on the market ever. The developer of THAT one, built another next door and a 114 meter apartment sells for 199,00 EUROS. http://www.aic-dominican-real-estate.com/sale-villas-apartments/apartments/alisei-34.html

So from an investment point of view, Las Terrenas is simply a better place to put one's money if you want to hedge your bets against a down turn in the US real estate market.

Vacation homes for rent in Las Terrenas, Samana, Dominican Republic

 

[SosuaSam]

There is way more to do in the Sosua / Cabarete area than in LT. Plus the airport at Samana doesn't have as many international flights, no golf nearby. LT has a lot of "friendly" Europeans and is a boring little town, however maybe that is what people want. To each his own.

 

[mountainannie]

well yes, to each his own. I am just looking at it from a real estate price point of view. Sosua prices have not risen much, if at all, in the 12 years that i have been watching them whereas LT prices have tripled.

 

[mountainannie]

Also, I do not know about the sea in Sosua but Cabarete is pretty rough, isn't it? LT has a lot of beaches that are reef protected and calm. There are some that have wind surfing and a few good snorkeling places. You are right that there is no golf. But I think if you really want golf, you need to go to the Southern end, no?

 

[SosuaSam]

If the objective is to buy and sell a property to make profit, perhaps LT is better although past price increases are no guarantee of future price increases. If the objective is for rental income, Sosua/Cab/POP are better known than LT. LT would have to promote themselves more to pull in tourists and that's a big task. I thought the original question was about an investment rental property with rental income and not a flip.

 

[ctrob]

The other thing that you may NOT know is that Sosua is reputed to be simply a whoring destination. Yes, they are trying to change that.. But La Classa Alta Dominicana will NOT be investing there. It will always be what it is. Classa Media Bajo.[/url]

The OP asked about Sosua. Why not just say that you "like LT" and leave it at that? Why all the badmouthing and libel? I honestly don't know how you're even getting away with it?

 

[mountainannie]

If the objective is to buy and sell a property to make profit, perhaps LT is better although past price increases are no guarantee of future price increases. If the objective is for rental income, Sosua/Cab/POP are better known than LT. LT would have to promote themselves more to pull in tourists and that's a big task. I thought the original question was about an investment rental property with rental income and not a flip.

Yes, it was for a buy and hold not a flip. But folks are always cautioning about investing here because of not being able to get out because of prices sinking.

LT is pretty well promoted. But it is still a niche tourist place, that is true. Here is the flight schedule

http://us.las-terrenas-live.com/las-terrenas/el-catey-international-airport.html

Anyway, the advice to the OP was against that particular investment, and that he would have to check out other towns before he invested in anything. I simply gave warnings that there can be many problems with properties here and that I saw lots of red flags with the particular development he had in mind.

Also, I would not make my first investment as a Villa, but rather a condo hotel type. Then you will not have the security problems of a villa. A villa is always going to require a lot of maintenance and expenses and you cannot just lock your door and leave as you can with a condo.

There are a couple of those in LT./. the Aleisei is one. Fenice is another, although they may be all sold and not running a rental program any more. Those places have one big common pool which is certainly a better idea. Pools are expensive to run. I had a small individual pool at a house that I rented in LT and the electricity ran me $300 a month. It was half or even less than the pools in the picture.

So I think that the OP would be in for a LOT of expenses without any guarantee of future income. I did not see the draw of that place as a rental.

I do not want to down investing in the other areas. It is primarily the other folks on the Board who live there who have said not to invest. All I am saying is that if I were in the investing game, I WOULD investing in either LT or the Zona, maybe also Jarabacoa.. but only there.

 

[william webster]

we stayed in the Zona last weekend and talked about buying something there..... $$$$ from what I know.

IMO - sosua - investment - property are three words that don't belong in the same sentence at this point.

MA - if LT has tripled and quadrupled as you say, the train may have left the station as far investing is concerned.
I was tempted at the 1st Balcones del Atlantico..... and was right in 2008
is it still a good buy today? Ponder that

Having said all that, I still feel RD is behind many other islands in property values....
will it ever catch up is the question

 

[mountainannie]

we stayed in the Zona last weekend and talked about buying something there..... $$$$ from what I know.

IMO - sosua - investment - property are three words that don't belong in the same sentence at this point.

MA - if LT has tripled and quadrupled as you say, the train may have left the station as far investing is concerned.
I was tempted at the 1st Balcones del Atlantico..... and was right in 2008
is it still a good buy today? Ponder that

Having said all that, I still feel RD is behind many other islands in property values....
will it ever catch up is the question

Well Balcones was a sorta crooked deal to begin with. The builder, I will not name, as he is Dominican and really Pegado, made a deal with the government to trade the beach front privatization for building a little building for the Navy and a Catholic Church.

I do not know what the prices are now but the positive thing about that development is that it is Dominican owned and run, the owner is not going anywhere. They have placed it under professional management of Red Rock Resorts http://balconesdelatlantico.com.do/RealState/brochures/FAQ_BALCONES.pdf

I do not know what the revenue streams are.

Probably the project is all sold but perhaps not. It is still pretty new. Anyway one would only be the second owner.

It seems to be drawing people. The condo hotel ideas seems to be a good one. And for folks with families, it is a great way to vacation. It costs 233 a night for a one bedroom condo, http://be.genares.net/10063?NextPage=room_list so it is not cheap but not hugely expensive either.. The restaurant is reportedly very good. And this from a Frenchman who lives there. And the restaurants in LT are really the best on the Island.

Certainly, in the Capital, the word all over is that LT is hot.

So I would have to have to take a look around and see. I have not been for a couple of years. There were some folks who were trying to privatize all the beach next to that.. and a few really bad actors in town who were building sorta mega complexes and there was a real danger that the place could tip like Juan Dolio, into a strip with just condos and no nature left.

There is of course, no central planning, and the town .. well.. the last mayor had not completed 8th grade. That does not mean that there are not really fine and sincere people there.

But lots and lots of the Europeans there are on the run from something. OK lots of them for tax purposes. Lots just do not want to pay the 50% tax that you have to pay when you sell your home, and to get out from under the French taxes, I can understand that. Some out of jail. Ok.. we all make mistakes.

But the French do not call out their bad actors. Everyone is just polite to one another. They have lunch together. So it really takes a while to find out who is who is who. And you have to speak French. Not to buy a condo, of course, but to nestle in...

If you find a French person who does not like the French people there, that is a good place to start!

Anyway it is a very interesting town. If you speak Spanish you will be fine. The locals are lovely. Very religious, actually, very spiritual. Yes, there are hookers but it seems to be kept more discrete than other places.. or at least was the last time I was there.

There are now more schools, more international families moving in.

So I would certainly check out the prices at Balcones. They are not going to be cheap, I am sure. But they are going to always have a Dominican market as they were primarily sold to Dominicans.

 

[mountainannie]

Room Tax

The room tax of course is huge here. And I am sure that everyone keeps crooked books.

So what is the point of a huge room tax that is not collected?

I do not know the walk around on this one.

But an 18% room tax is a real whallop.

 

[william webster]

I am not talking the big project 'Balcones'..... the little one in town near Alisei et al..... his first in 2007/8.

he toured me himself... and showed us us his apartment.

Not the big acreage MA -
the ~15 unit bldg on the beach road ... very nice, all Dominicanos, sold out before a shovel went into the ground

sold privately... not a peso in real estate commission paid.....they all knew the road was coming -- fixed game all Capitalanos

 

[mountainannie]

Yes, the Zona is pricey. But there are places.. I know of one for 30k which I will not share because .. well, because. .. And lots are NOT on the market but they would be for sale if you could find the owners. Probably the majority of the homes are being held by Dominicans who want to pass them on. But lots will not have the money to renovate etc. There are little places.

There is no real real estate agent who does much work there. There is one who does a lot of work but she is Cuban and only speaks Spanish. There are foreigners who have bought.. Europeans primarily.. and who will sell, to other Europeans..

You have to be in the big money to be looking at a building, but there are some little places in the 200k range.

I have a French friend who lives there and is a NYC trained broker so if you are interested PM me and she will keep a lookout for you.

 

[mountainannie]

I am not talking the big project 'Balcones'..... the little one in town near Alisei et al..... his first in 2007/8.

he toured me himself... and showed us us his apartment.

Not the big acreage MA -
the ~15 unit bldg on the beach road ... very nice, all Dominicanos, sold out before a shovel went into the ground

sold privately... not a peso in real estate commission paid.....they all knew the road was coming -- fixed game all Capitalanos

OK. My hesitation on that road would be the erosion. There really is no protection there from the sea. And while I did recommend Aleisei.. I would also have to really walk the land and see. On the other side, on Punto Poppy, during a bad tormenta season, the swamp came up so badly that some of the little hotels were flooded.

The construction on that beach road is backed by swamp fill in. The French and Italians have all bought it.. I think that there is only one Dominican left back there. So I would pick a really really raining hard time to go and walk about there and see the land.

The other issue is that they have taken to raking the beach to make it all nice for the tourists and make it look like the Caribbean. Which it is not. It is the Atlantic.

They are raking the seaweed away from the roots of the palm trees when they should be packing it in and netting them. I have seen more than one palm tree fall.

Last time I was there, I had a complete nervous breakdown over this. Really. Fell on the ground weeping. From that and from the fact that the little Dominican place where I used to stay.. which was on hard ground and had well water, had run out of water, because it was full of guests, and they had upped the watts on the outdoor lights "for security and comfort" of the guests and I could no longer see the stars.

I do not know exactly which building you are talking about. I may not indeed know it. I think that there is too much concrete on that side of the swamp and the area is prone to flooding so I would be wary.

 

[mountainannie]

In LT you need to make sure that you are on HARD ground and not Caliche fill in. Lots of the houses are on fill in. Then the Italians who like to live in concrete and have all their houses concreted over one next to other, built like that. So you need to find Charlie Simon, who is a Dominican Haitian aritist, has a gallery in the Paseo, and has lived there for 30 years, and can walk you around and tell you what was built when and who is who. He speaks Spanish, Italian, English, French, and Kreyole and knows everyone. He will tell you if the building is on hard ground or if their sewer and well both go into the swamp.. which is the real worry.. ok, they now have a sewage system.. and it was put in AFTER the Don Pedro construction and I do not know how many of the houses and hotels on that road are actually hooked into it so I am not sure that I would trust the water.

I do not mean drinking water. I am talking about SHOWER water.

So everywhere there are issues. Stuff that does not apply.

The other thing about that particular road .. the Colibri road.. an area that I do really love.. out to Ballenas.. is that they do take cars on it. And it packs the sand. Maybe that is a good thing. I don't know. I have not really done a survey of the sewage tratment plant but I am concerned about it.. about where it was placed and where it comes out and who is really hooked up to it.

So before buying anything, talk to Charlie. (buy a little painting from him, and some groceries and stuff, he is not a real estate broker just a friend)

 

[mountainannie]

I am not talking the big project 'Balcones'..... the little one in town near Alisei et al..... his first in 2007/8.

he toured me himself... and showed us us his apartment.

Not the big acreage MA -
the ~15 unit bldg on the beach road ... very nice, all Dominicanos, sold out before a shovel went into the ground

sold privately... not a peso in real estate commission paid.....they all knew the road was coming -- fixed game all Capitalanos

That is a good sign, that it was all bought before the shovel went it because it means that the engineer is a man of confidence. The only issues then would be the lay of the land. And the sewer.

There is some good hard ground behind some of the area there. And some of the places are set well back from the sea.

I do not know how bad the flooding was on the Ballenas side of the road. Charlie can tell you.

 

[william webster]

paved these days w/ interlocking brick.... as I remember

 

[mountainannie]

Ok.. more on the Ballenas area.. That entire end property is owned by French Canadian who has been there for years. Made his money in strip clubs. Nasty guy. The property has been for sale for ages. For millions of bucks. Of course, it should not be sold. It is just sand. It should be protected. The same guy thinks he owns half the town. I think .. but am not sure, that the sewage plant runs out.. either there or right into the main beach in town.. OK it is treated.. but in a storm, of course, it will overflow.

This is the problem.

All of the titles along that beach were crooked. They essentially paid the Dominicans in coconuts. The Europeans and Americans who have built the walled condos there rent out over the internet and perhaps declare the income on one if they own three. They prefer NOT to rent to Dominicans.. because they say when you rent to Dominicans the reservation will be for six and they show up with 18. Fair enough.

But the fiscal should be all over those places to find their owners and check their books and find the revenues,

I mean they are selling real estate there on yahoo and hot mail in Euros and Dollars, for heavens sake. How blatant is that?

I do think that the Dominicans are taking back the area. That is a good thing.

There are some really bad actors who have moved out of town. Which is a good thing. One of the main ones moved to Rio San Juan and I found myself sitting next to his wife, who was pleased as punch being accepted here in the Capital as one of the French ladies, suggested that I might want to work with her as a translator.. and then she wrote down her name.. OMG! NO. It is a wonder he has not been killed. He did the entire scam up in LT phony titles, all black money. Just a crooked dealer.

When I got there, none of the streets were paved. Guys walked down the road with pistols in their belts. It was Dodge City.

Now it looks a lot more like St Tropez.

But you have to know who you are dealing with and find a good guide.

 

[mountainannie]

here is one nest of crooks to avoid http://www.villas-domrep.com/english/las_terrenas_villa_rancho_playa11.htm
the manager that I rented from ended up in jail.. then I think he was deported,

 

[mountainannie]

here is one nest of crooks to avoid http://www.villas-domrep.com/english/las_terrenas_villa_rancho_playa11.htm
the manager that I rented from ended up in jail.. then I think he was deported,

This is how they do their booking

"First send us the reservation sheet of the villa you have chosen to rent. For this, you just have to go on the website, to go to the page of the concerned villa and to send us the sheet which is down each page.

You will receive in the next 24 hours the confirmation for the house?s availabilities. Then, send us all the information concerning your arrival in order to enable us to organise your transport from the airport to the villa.


We send you at this moment the booking form, which is also the proforma invoice. We will ask you to pay 50% of the amount invoiced. The swift money is by bank transfer (in Euros) on our account in France. As soon as we receive the amount due, we will address you an order confirmation for your renting, the villa is booked for the time you have decided.

Wishing you in advance to enjoy your holidays."