China Wants To Improve It's Vaccine Before Giving To Chinese

[bob saunders]

Understood and agreed.

So if efficacy is a very poor basis on which to decide whether or not to take the vaccine, on what facts did people knowingly and willingly already take the Sinovac vaccine?

It has not yet been approved by regulators for emergency use in Canada, US, or EU. Yet citizens of those countries/regions line up elsewhere to willingly take the Sinovac. I still await something more than the best vaccine you can get/take....is the one you can get." But if you follow that quote out, was he referring to any and all vaccines..........or just the ones approved for emergency use authorization?

I think Cdn Gringo alluded above on part of why, when he said:

"The DR Govt is even less likely to publish anything that would call into question the usefulness of Sinovac since that is pretty much all this country had made available to the general public."

The 5 countries that have put out efficacy studies and praising the vaccine have all relied for the most part on the benevolence of China.........and thus they likely do not wish to incur the wrath of the Chinese government at possibly suspending shipment to them.

But that hardly qualifies as valid rationale to just go along to get along...........but that is certainly what appears to be the case.

Given their record of lies and deception from the beginning of the pandemic, I have yet to find valid reasons to take/trust the Sinovac vaccine or any of the myriad of other vaccines coming out of China.

Which harkens back to the question posed above.............if not blind faith in the efficacy data (which is poor) on what facts did people knowingly and willingly already take the Sinovac vaccine?



Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

Really, Chile has relied on the benevolence of China? At approx 20 dollars per shot the Chinese are not being very benevolent.

 

[playacaribe2]

Really, Chile has relied on the benevolence of China? At approx 20 dollars per shot the Chinese are not being very benevolent.

Yes. Like most nations who have accepted/bought the vaccine, the Chinese have also donated doses to them and Chile is no exception............via a scheme of vaccine diplomacy..............and Chile has in turn "donated" doses to both Paraguay and Ecuador;

From DominicanToday;

"China delivered Sun. in beijing the one million new doses of Sinovac vaccine with which the Dominican Government plans to start this week the second phase of its National Vaccination Plan against Covid.

The first shipment, which arrived in the country at the end of February, was of 768,000 doses (including 50,000 donated), which were added to the 90,000 (of the 110,000) AstraZeneca that had arrived weeks before from India."

Additionally, China has also donated the means of delivering those vaccines i.e., syringes..................

You have to give them credit for the strategy..................test it elsewhere and improve it before giving it to the Chinese.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[cavok]

You have to give them credit for the strategy..................test it elsewhere and improve it before giving it to the Chinese.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

You keep repeating that, but it's simply not true:

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-19-why-is-chinas-vaccination-rate-so-low/a-57183859

 

[chico bill]

Substandard products from China ? Well hush my mouth. Of course it isn't effective, we all now they rush products to look important.

And yet there was a new mega-China-Store just opened in Sosua.
With 4 or 5 of these plastic junk stores now open I think it is time to start doing a Boycott of Chinese crap. Who wants to come to the DR to buy plastic purses or poorly made jewelry.
Before someone says but the poor Dominicans shop there - that new store is enough for every Dominican on the North Coast - Close the other 3 and bring back some local ambiance to downtown Sosua.
I would prefer D'Latins back in business where the Chinese store is now.

 

[playacaribe2]

You keep repeating that, but it's simply not true:

https://www.dw.com/en/covid-19-why-is-chinas-vaccination-rate-so-low/a-57183859

It is a bit rather embarrassing to the Chinese government when its own citizens are reluctant to accept the vaccine.....and try as they might through incentives and punishments and even promises to improve the vaccine.............the Chinese people are not yet buying into it.

From your article:

"China's vaccine rollout has gotten off to a slow start. Now, as Beijing tries to boost vaccination rates across the country, citizens are having doubts about the safety and efficacy of the available inoculations."

What better way to convince your own people than by getting what amounts to paid testimonials to cajole the population..........of course forced vaccination is also another alternative they might try.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[cavok]

It is a bit rather embarrassing to the Chinese government when its own citizens are reluctant to accept the vaccine.....and try as they might through incentives and punishments and even promises to improve the vaccine.............the Chinese people are not yet buying into it.

From your article:

"China's vaccine rollout has gotten off to a slow start. Now, as Beijing tries to boost vaccination rates across the country, citizens are having doubts about the safety and efficacy of the available inoculations."

What better way to convince your own people than by getting what amounts to paid testimonials to cajole the population..........of course forced vaccination is also another alternative they might try.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

There's hesitancy and resistance to getting vaccinated in the US and many other countries. Do you have any statistics to make a comparison?

 

[playacaribe2]

There's hesitancy and resistance to getting vaccinated in the US and many other countries. Do you have any statistics to make a comparison?

The trends on vaccine acceptance have gone up slowly as more and more data is released, but the reluctance level in many countries is still rather high as many choose to continue a wait and see attitude perhaps due to a lack of confidence in the safety, efficacy data or both;

Global attitudes : COVID-19 vaccines

COVID-19 vaccination intent has risen in the past few weeks. New Ipsos-World Economic Forum global survey highlights the increasing demand for COVID-19 vaccines and diverging views on whether vaccination should be mandatory.

www.ipsos.com

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[cavok]

The trends on vaccine acceptance have gone up slowly as more and more data is released, but the reluctance level in many countries is still rather high as many choose to continue a wait and see attitude perhaps due to a lack of confidence in the safety, efficacy data or both;

Global attitudes : COVID-19 vaccines

COVID-19 vaccination intent has risen in the past few weeks. New Ipsos-World Economic Forum global survey highlights the increasing demand for COVID-19 vaccines and diverging views on whether vaccination should be mandatory.

www.ipsos.com

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

I think vaccine hesitancy will level off or possibly decrease as the number of of cases decrease and the age of those vaccinated goes down. Younger people in general are more hesitant to get vaccinated because of less perceived risk.

 

[cavok]

I think vaccine hesitancy will level off or possibly decrease as the number of of cases decrease and the age of those vaccinated goes down. Younger people in general are more hesitant to get vaccinated because of less perceived risk.

I think the hesitancy might "increase"

 

[playacaribe2]

I think vaccine hesitancy will level off or possibly decrease as the number of of cases decrease and the age of those vaccinated goes down. Younger people in general are more hesitant to get vaccinated because of less perceived risk.

Or in the alternative as the number of cases go down worldwide, some people may become more convinced not to take the vaccine at all.

Time will tell.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[playacaribe2]

Or in the alternative as you just posted, as the number of cases go down worldwide, some people may become more convinced not to take the vaccine at all.

Time will tell.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[cavok]

Understood and agreed.

So if efficacy is a very poor basis on which to decide whether or not to take the vaccine, on what facts did people knowingly and willingly already take the Sinovac vaccine?

It has not yet been approved by regulators for emergency use in Canada, US, or EU. Yet citizens of those countries/regions line up elsewhere to willingly take the Sinovac. I still await something more than the best vaccine you can get/take....is the one you can get." But if you follow that quote out, was he referring to any and all vaccines..........or just the ones approved for emergency use authorization?

I think Cdn Gringo alluded above on part of why, when he said:

"The DR Govt is even less likely to publish anything that would call into question the usefulness of Sinovac since that is pretty much all this country had made available to the general public."

The 5 countries that have put out efficacy studies and praising the vaccine have all relied for the most part on the benevolence of China.........and thus they likely do not wish to incur the wrath of the Chinese government at possibly suspending shipment to them.

But that hardly qualifies as valid rationale to just go along to get along...........but that is certainly what appears to be the case.

Given their record of lies and deception from the beginning of the pandemic, I have yet to find valid reasons to take/trust the Sinovac vaccine or any of the myriad of other vaccines coming out of China.

Which harkens back to the question posed above.............if not blind faith in the efficacy data (which is poor) on what facts did people knowingly and willingly already take the Sinovac vaccine?



Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

I don't see how their record of deception regarding the pandemic equates to them being deceptive about the vaccine(?). Lies and deceptions about the pandemic were obviously to avoid blame and liability. The vaccine is a PR campaign for them in an attempt to restore their tarnished image. It would be quite counterproductive and not in their own best interests to send a vaccine that was either untested or known to cause health problems to countries where they already have made large investments and want to continue to expand their influence.

Remember, in the countries giving the Chinese vaccine, they have all started out with healthcare workers and those over 70(sometimes higher) - many with underlying medical conditions that put them in a high risk group. Is it really so hard to understand why many chose to get the vaccine?

I think a better question is - is there any good factual, objective reason about Sinovac for these people to have not gotten the vaccine?

 

[jd426]

I don't see how their record of deception regarding the pandemic equates to them being deceptive about the vaccine(?). Lies and deceptions about the pandemic were obviously to avoid blame and liability. The vaccine is a PR campaign for them in an attempt to restore their tarnished image. It would be quite counterproductive and not in their own best interests to send a vaccine that was either untested or known to cause health problems to countries where they already have made large investments and want to continue to expand their influence.

Remember, in the countries giving the Chinese vaccine, they have all started out with healthcare workers and those over 70(sometimes higher) - many with underlying medical conditions that put them in a high risk group. Is it really so hard to understand why many chose to get the vaccine?

I think a better question is - is there any good factual, objective reason about Sinovac for these people to have not gotten the vaccine?

Are you guys really that slow Lane ?
They LIE when it suits them. Period , not to avoid " shame " .. lmfao .. they are not Japanese , they do not have " Honor"

As I posted many times .. they LIED about putting Cardboard in FOOD , at the OLympics ,when the whole world was watching, they LIED about POISON in Dog Food, they LIED about using LEAD PAINT on Childrens TOYS .. . THREE TIMES .. Being Warned to not EVER do it again by the US Govt and the Toy Companies
..
They LIE about disgusting Human Rights Violations on their own people ... They conveniently Kill Prisoners to Harvest their Organs .

what part of this SYSTEMATIC Deception do you people just not understand ?

 

[cavok]

Are you guys really that slow Lane ?
They LIE when it suits them. Period , not to avoid " shame " .. lmfao .. they are not Japanese , they do not have " Honor"

As I posted many times .. they LIED about putting Cardboard in FOOD , at the OLympics ,when the whole world was watching, they LIED about POISON in Dog Food, they LIED about using LEAD PAINT on Childrens TOYS .. . THREE TIMES .. Being Warned to not EVER do it again by the US Govt and the Toy Companies
..
They LIE about disgusting Human Rights Violations on their own people ... They conveniently Kill Prisoners to Harvest their Organs .

what part of this SYSTEMATIC Deception do you people just not understand ?

You're comparing apples to oranges and don't understand the Chinese. They are not going to risk putting out a vaccine with known problems. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose in doing so.

 

[playacaribe2]

You're comparing apples to oranges and don't understand the Chinese. They are not going to risk putting out a vaccine with known problems. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose in doing so.

Therein lies the point and the problem. They do not know what the problems are............and thus given their dubious track record of lies and/or deception........people are skeptical......no more so than their own people.

But I disagree with you on nothing to gain....................if the vaccine proves effective, they can then sing its praises and their vaccine diplomacy to an appreciative worldwide audience.............who likely have short memories about who lied to the world about the origins of and who downplayed it by silencing its critics........letting it infect the globe.

Of course after the world found out they were lied to and as the pandemic spread like wildfire............the Chinese shut/locked down their country and many cities. But, the damage was done.

It is analogous as if someone shoots three people and then saves the lives of two of them............and they now look to be applauded for saving two lives.......and that also assumes there are no long term negative effects from the vaccine,

I don't see how their record of deception regarding the pandemic equates to them being deceptive about the vaccine(?). Lies and deceptions about the pandemic were obviously to avoid blame and liability. The vaccine is a PR campaign for them in an attempt to restore their tarnished image. It would be quite counterproductive and not in their own best interests to send a vaccine that was either untested or known to cause health problems to countries where they already have made large investments and want to continue to expand their influence.

Remember, in the countries giving the Chinese vaccine, they have all started out with healthcare workers and those over 70(sometimes higher) - many with underlying medical conditions that put them in a high risk group. Is it really so hard to understand why many chose to get the vaccine?

I think a better question is - is there any good factual, objective reason about Sinovac for these people to have not gotten the vaccine?

Other than the fact.............that there were hardly facts on efficacy (and those were poor) and none on long term safety, I frame the question the other way;

Is there any good factual objective reason about Sinovac for these people to have taken the vaccine?

And that is a question to which no one seems to have answered.............so was it just blind faith, panic?

Remember many of those who took the vaccine, took it with no safety studies and just one or two efficacy studies...........and as I believe we both concur...........the efficacy studies are not a good basis to evaluate the vaccine.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[USA DOC]

Knowing how the Chinese Communist leaders conduct bussiness in their country...and particularly with a virus that started with them and how they reacted to the start of the pandemic...how would the rest of the world really know how good or bad their vaccine worked on the Chinese population?...I think the answer is something we all know.............

 

[drstock]

Knowing how the Chinese Communist leaders conduct bussiness in their country...and particularly with a virus that started with them and how they reacted to the start of the pandemic...how would the rest of the world really know how good or bad their vaccine worked on the Chinese population?...I think the answer is something we all know.............

I don't.

 

[reilleyp]

Understood and agreed.

So if efficacy is a very poor basis on which to decide whether or not to take the vaccine, on what facts did people knowingly and willingly already take the Sinovac vaccine?

It has not yet been approved by regulators for emergency use in Canada, US, or EU. Yet citizens of those countries/regions line up elsewhere to willingly take the Sinovac. I still await something more than the best vaccine you can get/take....is the one you can get." But if you follow that quote out, was he referring to any and all vaccines..........or just the ones approved for emergency use authorization?

I think Cdn Gringo alluded above on part of why, when he said:

"The DR Govt is even less likely to publish anything that would call into question the usefulness of Sinovac since that is pretty much all this country had made available to the general public."

The 5 countries that have put out efficacy studies and praising the vaccine have all relied for the most part on the benevolence of China.........and thus they likely do not wish to incur the wrath of the Chinese government at possibly suspending shipment to them.

But that hardly qualifies as valid rationale to just go along to get along...........but that is certainly what appears to be the case.

Given their record of lies and deception from the beginning of the pandemic, I have yet to find valid reasons to take/trust the Sinovac vaccine or any of the myriad of other vaccines coming out of China.

Which harkens back to the question posed above.............if not blind faith in the efficacy data (which is poor) on what facts did people knowingly and willingly already take the Sinovac vaccine?



Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

And what percentage would survive or have few or no symptoms without any vaccine? That is something we will never know. I applaud your stamina Playacaribe2. After over 10 years on this forum, I consider you the most intelligent person on here. I do not know you at all. Never met you. Having said that, it seems that no matter how many facts you present, some people on here just enjoy arguing.

Substandard products from China ? Well hush my mouth. Of course it isn't effective, we all now they rush products to look important.

And yet there was a new mega-China-Store just opened in Sosua.
With 4 or 5 of these plastic junk stores now open I think it is time to start doing a Boycott of Chinese crap. Who wants to come to the DR to buy plastic purses or poorly made jewelry.
Before someone says but the poor Dominicans shop there - that new store is enough for every Dominican on the North Coast - Close the other 3 and bring back some local ambiance to downtown Sosua.
I would prefer D'Latins back in business where the Chinese store is now.

Of course everything is substandard. Even the Chinese do not want things made in China. My friend's company got a contract to build a roller coaster for a Chinese company, to be constructed in China. What was one of the contract stipulations? They insisted that none of the steel come from China. All the steel must come from the USA.
I never thought anything could be made cheaper from China in the US, until I came to the DR and I saw they had a new level of cheapness for export to the DR.

 

[USA DOC]

And what percentage would survive or have few or no symptoms without any vaccine? That is something we will never know. I applaud your stamina Playacaribe2. After over 10 years on this forum, I consider you the most intelligent person on here. I do not know you at all. Never met you. Having said that, it seems that no matter how many facts you present, some people on here just enjoy arguing.

Of course everything is substandard. Even the Chinese do not want things made in China. My friend's company got a contract to build a roller coaster for a Chinese company, to be constructed in China. What was one of the contract stipulations? They insisted that none of the steel come from China. All the steel must come from the USA.
I never thought anything could be made cheaper from China in the US, until I came to the DR and I saw they had a new level of cheapness for export to the DR.

To be sure the DR seems to get the bottom of the barrel chinese exports...in the usa the stores sell chinese exports, But they have to replace the item or refund the money ,if you are unhappy....and that seems to raise the level of quality.........

 

[jd426]

You're comparing apples to oranges and don't understand the Chinese. They are not going to risk putting out a vaccine with known problems. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose in doing so.

My Primary care Physician is Chinese .. He says and I quote " Every thing coming from China ( in terms of Medicine) is ISHIT"... I will gladly give you his Name and phone # ... I may not understand their Culture.. but im 99.9999 % sure he does .. and he is just one of MANY Physicians who are Chinese , who dont trust the Chinese . not when it comes to Medicine and ingredients / components used in the manufacturing of Medicine .

I dont know where you come up with this Apples and ORanges Analogy ? did you think I just assumed Dog Food is like Medicine or Lead paint in toys ?
I think YOU are the one not grasping this .

but you could be right.. maybe they just trying to make a Buck .